Lateral with Tom Scott - 183: Dog watches

Episode Date: April 10, 2026

Lizzy Skrzypiec, Sophie Ward and Katie Steckles face questions about work watches, record-breaking runs and alarming altitudes. LATERAL is a comedy panel game podcast about weird questions with wonderful answers, hosted by Tom Scott. For business enquiries, contestant appearances or question submissions, visit https://lateralcast.com. HOST: Tom Scott. QUESTION PRODUCER: David Bodycombe. EDITED BY: Julie Hassett at The Podcast Studios, Dublin. MUSIC: Karl-Ola Kjellholm ('Private Detective'/'Agrumes', courtesy of epidemicsound.com). ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS: Michael March, Isabel McCracken, Alex Bayley, Gavin Chan, Daniel D., Ólafur Waage, Ben Wiles. FORMAT: Pad 26 Limited/Labyrinth Games Ltd. EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS: David Bodycombe and Tom Scott. © Pad 26 Limited (https://www.pad26.com) / Labyrinth Games Ltd. 2026. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In October 2025, one of India's national cricket teams set a new record with 18. Why did they feel hard done by? The answer to that at the end of the show. My name's Tom Scott, and this is Lateral. Alright, welcome to Lateral Fit, the only workout class that exercises every muscle except the ones you'd expect. We're going to warm up with some light banter, stretch our curiosity, and then absolutely shred our assumptions until they cry. If at any point you feel faint, confused, or personally attacked by a sneaky question,

that means you're doing it right! And here to join us on today's Mental Boot Camp are our three extremely resilient guests. First, welcome back to the show, a mathematician, and hopefully by this point for the endth time published author, Katie Steckles, welcome back. Hello. What's the book and what's the podcast? The book is Why Don't Rabbits Rule the World,

which is a little kind of pop maths thing that's sort of exploits. some aspects of maths in the world around us. I guess it's basically just a fun excuse for us to write about various interesting bits of maths, including things like, if you had infinitely many monkeys, would they write Shakespeare and all that kind of stuff? And yeah,

I also have a podcast called Mathematical Objects, and we've just recently finished putting out series 9, I think, of that, which is just me and my palpice roll at having a nice chat about some interesting maths behind an object. You are a regular on the show now. Thank you very much for being part of it. How was it last time? I think we took a long time to come around to realising a very simple maths thing at one point. Yeah, I think that happens sometimes,

right? If you're just looking at it from a different angle, it doesn't look like what you're expecting, but that's part of the fun. Well, very best of luck on the show today. Next, someone who last time just did not want to promote anything and just told us about someone else's good stuff. So if you want to do that again, feel free. Sophie Ward, how you're you doing? Yeah, I'm good. You made me feel like I'm doing capitalism really badly, time. No, I think you're doing life really well.

Oh, that's sweet. That's nice. Yeah, you know what? I'm doing really good. I have been reading a series, the Neapolitan Novel series by Elena Farante. It starts with My Brilliant Friend. And I just think it's fantastic and a really interesting interpretation of friendship. So that's what I've been up to.

Feel free to check out Elena Faranty's My Brilliant Friend. at my brilliant friend at your local library. But yeah, I'm really excited to be back. I want this, and I realise it wouldn't fit time-wise, but I kind of want this podcast to now have a section that's just, what have you enjoyed lately? It's just a lovely way to learn about people. But alas, capitalism.

On that note, please also welcome from Murder She Didn't Write, which is on tour either now or soon. Lizzie Skippiac, welcome back to the show. Hello, thanks for having me back. I love doing natural. Sometimes win, even though you can't win. Can you win the improv show? Can you win an improvised murder mystery?

Do the audience win if they figure it out? I feel like I've won if I've made it through a show and solved a crime. So I justify all the wines I have at the end. Is that actual wine? In the final thing? Wait, the show ends with you drinking a wine? It doesn't. I just go off and then I'm like, oh, I did work today.

Oh, okay. I thought your detective wondered. on in the last scene with a drink to... That would be badass. I mean, she's quite an old detective, is Agatha Krusty, so she might go for a swift brandy. Well, very best of luck to all three of you on the show today. It's time to breathe deeply and hydrate properly,

as we begin to feel the burn of question one. Thank you to Daniel D for this question. As Daniel was driving out of Vilnius, he noticed that the branches of Maxima had signs containing two, three, four, or five X-Eylus. X's. Why? And one more time, as Daniel was driving out of Vilius, he noticed that the branches of Maxima

had signs containing two, three, four or five X's. Why? On the signs? On the signs. On the signs? Well, maybe he's got a lot of ex-partners. Wade! I feel like there's many things that I don't know what they are here.

Like, I know... Yeah, me too. Yeah, there's a person, and I can understand that. And Vernius is a place. I think in Europe. Yes. But the branches of maxima, is that like roads? Is it like branches on a road junction and they have signs or branches of a tree?

Or a shop? Or a shop. Branches, I mean, that's what I think. Much more reasonable interpretation. Okay. Okay. I love how they making that system about each of us. My first thought was tree.

Katie first thought was roads and your first thought was shop. I like that. We've got those are the three gender. There's all the kinds of branches. So if it is a shot That makes a lot more sense Because the shops can have signs in the window But they've got two, three, four or five X's

Yes On the shots The branches of Maxima Oh no, I'm a genius Well, oh my goodness Shooley is like the size It's like the max size It's like for bigger people

Or taller people right So we go from X L to XXXXXXXXXX X Is it the number of X's before an L that they are prepared to sell you clothing? You're along the right lines, and certainly size is a key word I'd go in on, but it's not about the sizes of clothing inside the store. Maximum is a supermarket chain. Oh, okay.

This is the size of the shop, no. Like we have, we have like Tesco Express and then Extra, but they've got Maximus XX and XX and so on. Yes. Absolutely right. You got there very quickly. Oh, guys, we, that was. That's good collaboration.

Excellent. This is the Lithuanian supermarket chain Maxima. They label their stores with a system of one to four X's depending on size. So, like I say, the Tesco Express, the Sainsbury's local, would be a Maxima X. And the out-of-town enormous big box stores are Maxima triple X. There is a 4-X store in the outskirts of Villiers. Wow. I feel like this is the kind of information.

that is only useful if you can go on the website and say, is this specific product in this? You know, like when there's some things that you don't think the little ones will have, but you need to go to the big one, if they've got like literally a specification of which size of Maximus you need to go to to get that product, like that would actually be incredibly useful. I also love the difference in names in supermarket chains. Like we've got Marissons and the co-op and it's like, Maximar.

Lizzie, we will take the next question from you, please, whenever you're ready. This question has been sent in by Michael March. When driving in the north of New South Wales, Australia, it is common to see bizarre objects such as microwaves, boilers and anvils perched on top of a log or post. Why are they necessary? When driving in the north of New South Wales, Australia, it's common to see bizarre objects

such as microwaves, boilers and anvils perched on top of a log or post. Why are they necessary? Necessary. Yes. Yeah, because my first thought was how, I mean, I don't know what it's like

where you guys are, but in Bristol if you leave, once I put a box on my wall, like a storage box, and I then walked my car and then by the time I turned around, it had gone. And then I saw a woman walking with it under her arm. So if you, yeah, out here things get like,

it's like to give away stuff you don't want. But the necessity part makes me think it's not about getting rid of stuff that you don't want. Part of me wonder as if it's like a weird advertising system. Like if you're driving through what's presumably potentially a remote part of Australia, that if you drive past the thing and you see a microwave, you're like, oh, it's a shop that sells microwaves and you can pull in there and buy one. Or if there's an ambulance, like, oh, it's a blacksmith. You're in the microwave province.

Yeah, if you see an ambi, you're like, oh, it's a blacksmith. I'll stop my horse and see if I can get it reshued. I don't know. I was thinking Australia's big objects. So I have been to the big pineapple. And I have seen The Big Penguin. Wait, how big is the, how big was the pineapple? Oh, it's a big pineapple.

It's this fibreglass pineapple that's several stories high. That's, like, Australia has a lot of big things. They have the big lobster. Lots of places. Like, a town will just decide to have a big something as their tourist attraction. But I don't know why you'd have the big microwave, the big boiler, the big anvil. I don't know why that would be necessary. The big microwave sounds dangerous because someone is going to try and get in it, right?

As soon as there's a microwave the size that you can get in, then... I mean, I don't know if you could have a microwave that size. I feel like something would fall apart in the physics of it there. I mean, it wasn't specified it was a functioning microwave. That's true. That's true. That's true.

And on posts and logs. So like on something wooden... I can tell you, these are normal-sized objects for what they are. They are normal-sized. So examples we had were microwave, anvil and boiler. Boilers. So these all contain metal.

Is it a lightning conductor thing? Lizzie's staying very quiet. I mean, it's not for lightning. Sorry to... Sorry about that. I'm going for another Australian stereotype then. It's something that'll kill you. Like, these are up on poles

because otherwise there's some critter that will either destroy the thing, tear the thing apart, or kill anyone who tries to use it. Like, does it stop... Nope. I was going to say, does it stop the spider nesting in the microwave?

But A, why is the microwave outside? And B, doesn't work for an an anvil that. Pretty solid, an anvil. I think you kind of want to work out how high these poles are. Ah. Are they like a foot off the ground? Yeah, small. Small pole.

Okay, the big pole. Oh, whoa, easy now. Easy now. Medium pole. Like I was saying, we're saying medium pole. Yeah. You're saying medium pole. Like medium, you know.

Yeah, what's the average length of a pole in Australia? I don't know. How long is a piece of pole? Like at the height of a person? Oh, certainly not taller than that. Okay. So they are reachable by a person. That's very important.

Okay. You said when driving, like, this is... There are very long roads in Australia. Incredibly long roads. They will put things next the side of the road. They will put trivia things on road signs, just try and keep drivers awake. There's a thing called the driver-reviver.

Like a little lay-by that's always... always closed, which used to be like support for drivers doing long road trips and things like that. So you think... They just put objects... Don't say you think into that. I don't think that.

I'm just suggesting some things. Bring this through. The conversation from that point on is just about anvils for a while and then... You know what? Everyone gets bored again. We're going to put stupid things next to the side of the road to keep drivers awake

is actually not a bad shout. That sounds like something Australia would do. And what about a boiler would keep you awake, Tom? Why is there a boiler next the side of the road? I'm going to be thinking about that for the next 200 miles. Not if you see a microwave and then... Right. What you see and you're like, oh, did I leave the boiler on?

Oh. Did I leave the anvil on? Oh, God, so good. Yeah, my thought was metal and the metal getting hot And like something about that. That was the one thing I thought I would just... Are they at a specific height to be visible by the drivers of the cars? Or are they intended for use by a person standing on the floor?

The latter. Okay. But the position next to a road is important. Are they designed to look like a pedestrian? Oh! Come on, that's not a bad shout either. That's great. There goes old anvil face.

Can't cross the road again. But it's intended for use by someone who stood next to it. Okay, it's a rule, although these areas are rural in Australia, they are near where people live. So they are on a pole near where people live and they have a use. But they can't be higher than a person that would be better. You're able to reach it. Is it for storing your fridge magnets on? You're really, you're really leaning into this, this. Well, they are metal.

They are all metal, aren't they? They need to be reached. You need to be able to reach them. Or a certain person needs to be able to... Does people leave a thing there? Or pick things up, drop things off? Go with that. Tom, follow that line of inquiry.

It's like a geocaching thing or a post-delivery thing? Because they're tiny towns. Is it the town's postbox? They are post-boxes and they're people's post-boxes. Katie, well done. Very, very good. So they protect the mail. So people, rather than just having a post box,

we'll just put a microwave on a big stick and you open it up and you put in your letters. How does the anvil work? Like, what are people doing with the letters there? No, it doesn't say that in my notes. So I don't. I guess it's hollowed out. I don't.

Some of them are more effective than others, I guess. Yes. Yeah, exactly. So I was like, well, just got an anvil. I kind of ruled out the idea of people. for them being for storing anything because of the anvil. But I guess that was a decoy. So the reason it's necessary is in the rural areas north of Sydney,

it's custom to repurpose old objects. So it's, why don't just throw away your microwave or your beer keg? Turn it into your mailbox. And it protects them, their letters from the weather and other beasties. The next question comes from Oliver Vorge. While waiting, Sam and his co-workers do a little wiggle just before getting warmer. The alternative is to do 20 push-ups. What is the purpose of the wiggle?

One more time. While waiting, Sam and his co-workers do a little wiggle just before getting warmer. The alternative is to do 20 push-ups. What is the purpose of the wiggle? What is that wiggle doing? Or push-ups. So first of all, they're not animals. I thought maybe they were doing

the cue love dogs doing a dog dance. But they're humans doing push-ups. There's no reason a dog couldn't do. Oh, no, do they don't have elbows, didn't they? There's nothing in the laws that says a dog can't do push-ups. Did they have elbows? I can't imagine a dog elbow. It's like backwards, isn't it?

Yeah, it's like the forearm. I feel like an Alsatian could definitely do a push-up. I still think they're human beings They're probably humans They also have co-workers Which admittedly some dogs do But most co-workers are humans But I'm wondering

Like push-ups is saying to me That maybe their job is some kind of military thing Because a lot of the army do push-ups But it might not be Do a little wiggle What is that wiggle gonna do for you? Before getting warmer Yeah a wiggle is making me think of like

shaking something off Yeah But it was before getting warmer Which could either be temperature, like actually getting physically warmer, or getting closer to someone you're playing hide-and-seek with, as the other meaning of that. Is it the first one? Is it the temperature one?

I'll give you this, Katie. It is the temperature one, although I do love the alternate reading in there. Good. Okay. You've got to check everything. That's the game. Warmer could branch into two because it could be their bodies are getting warmer, or they could go into a space where they're going to get warmer.

Yeah. I think wiggling just naturally warms you up, doesn't it? I mean, as someone used to do a lot of caving, it's definitely a way to stay warm when you're underground is to just move a little bit and you would sort of shuffle around in your boots and kind of, I guess, doing 20 push-ups with work, but it feels quite excessive

when you can just do the keeping warm dance. I think the important thing we need to do here is ask Tom what they're wiggling. Are they wiggling their bottoms? Yes, that's the only thing. thing I think of. Everyone else thought about Bottoms. Was it just me?

Personally, I actually didn't for once, yeah. I was thinking about maths, so I... You did say military earlier. This isn't military. Right. It's probably... It's very much civilian. But I think you'd see there's a bit of an overlap in terms of like appearance,

like duties. Yeah, my thought, are the 20 push-ups like a punishment for not doing the wiggle. Yes. Yeah. Yes. That sort of thing. When he went down military, that's that's sort of what I was thinking, yes. It is a punishment if you have not done the wiggle. Is it someone in the wiggles? Like if you get out and you're not wanting to perform in the wiggles, then they'll be like, right, 20 push-ups. Yeah, drop and give me 20. Is the wiggle, like when you're driving a vehicle and you just do a little left and right, or is it a physical wiggle of their own self?

It's got to be themselves. It is themselves. Why might you do that wiggle, Katie? In some modern cars, people find themselves doing a little wiggle on the steering wheel every now and again. We like test your tyres, doesn't it? If you're aquaplaining. If you're aquaplaining and you're like, whoa, what's going on? To just go around a cat.

That's the main reason. Is it that the lights will go off because they're on a sensor? Oh. That's my regular thing in my office is I have to just do this to stop the lights going off. I've just done a big wave of my arm for anyone listening. Keep thinking in that direction. Is it like the beefeaters? Is it the London Guard people?

That's a military though, isn't it? But they have to stand really still for ages. And like they'll have blood circulation issues or something if they're not careful, right? And if you get blood circulation issues, you get punished with push-ups. I'm into barking of palace. You never see him just wiggling about or grooving in a jelly thing. Not when you're looking at him. And Lizzie, you're just staring at their bums, Lizzie.

They wait until everyone's looking the other way, like ghosts in Mario, and then they do stuff. Yeah. I go back to that electronic sensor thing. That's what I was trying to get at with the car. Occasionally, if you're using the lane follower, lane assist, it will tell you to put your hands on the wheel because you just haven't made an input in a while. That kind of sensor. Absolutely right. Okay, like to stop the TV from turning itself off when you've just been watching something for eight hours.

Yes. And while it's not military, they are all wearing uniforms. Oh, mice. Like, wiggle mice to get the screen saver off on a computer in Curry's? No? Okay. Different kind of uniform here. Why might Sam and his co-workers be getting warm? Fireman Sam, Fireman Sam.

Before they get warm, we missed that, we forgot about the warm. Oh my goodness. Before they get warm, fire, so they've got to do, before they go to the fire, they have to, is this something about the fire engine, testing something of the engine, or is it they got to go down? So, do you get punished if you go down the pole? This is some firefighters in the US, and you're right, they're waiting to tackle a blaze. You've got that absolutely right.

Okay, did they do the wiggle at the fire station before they set off to go and fight a fire? They have to do it regularly. A sensor. A carbon oxide sensor. A centre for something? Yeah, and for safety. But not carbon monoxide? No. Well, I guess... Okay.

Not directly, no. Okay, so the sensor is something that's activated when they move, so it's designed to make sure they're not just staying completely motionless, aka unconscious or... Yes. So why are they wiggling? What's this sensor actually... Movement?

Yeah, because it's testing they're still moving and they're still alive, so they've got to do a wiggle to be like, I'm alive, I'm alive, well, not unconscious. What happens if they're... get to do the wiggle. Yeah, then everyone all think they're dead and, well, they're unconscious then they'll be like, we have to go in and get them. So if they cause that bother, then obviously they're going to have to be, obviously they're going to have to be punished for that. This is the personal alert safety system. This is the pass device that some firefighters wear.

It starts to beep if they don't move, to warn anyone who might be nearby in smoke, in fire, that they are incapacitated. So if they're waiting around, they must wiggle occasionally, to ensure it doesn't get set off, and if it does, traditionally, they'll have to do some push-ups later as a punishment. But not like while they're trying to fight a fire. No, no, it's not. Katie, whenever you're ready, it's your question, please.

So this question has been sent in by Alex Bailey. In naval tradition, the day is divided into watches. Most watches are four hours long. However, the first and second dog watch, which begin at 4pm and 6pm, respectively, only lasts for two hours. How does this keep things fair? So I read that again.

In naval tradition, the day is divided into watches. Most watches are four hours long. However, the first and second dog watch, which begin at 4pm and 6pm, respectively, only lasts for two hours. How does this keep things fair? I'm glad I'm a lot about naval tradition But if there's two hours at the start and end of each day Then if the same person always does those

Then doesn't that equal four? I guess it's they're 4pm and 6pm So if the day started at 6pm then So for some reason the naval day starts at 4pm And then you have two two hour watches And then it's going to be one start at 8 then midnight 4m 8 a minute It's 5 4s I've just done the air

Yeah Yeah it's not so much The day starts then, but that's just when this period where the two watches are two hours long each happens. And it's, but it's fair because maybe a lot's going on at that time. You know, like, if you get the lucky four hours where not lots going on, then that's fine. It's easy for you. Whereas if a lot's going on at four and six, like other boats or big waves or other ships and sea goals. Some going down, that's stressful.

Yeah, it's a good thought, but it's not specifically to do with. what happens during those four hours, I guess it's not that there is anything in particular that's important to do during that time. My thought is, why is it called a dog watch? Is it like, and then I thought of sick as a dog? And then I thought, is it when you're more likely to be seasick at 4 and 6pm?

That's not it. It's a lovely thought, but it's not. Okay, thank you. Okay, if you're polite, declining. Thank you. It's not to do with like the, A ship is moving across time zones, and every day it moves X number of hours. So 4pm to 6pm might only be 2 hours, but might actually be 4 if some clocks are turning about.

Magic. I think we all know. I wonder how they deal with that. Yeah. Yeah, no, they actually do last for 2 hours rather than 4 hours. There's no, there's no timely, wantingy stuff going on. I wonder if they do keep the watches to, like, Greenwich Mean Time, wherever they are. because then they just don't have to worry about.

Like your clock will change, but your watch rotor doesn't, because that also keeps it there. Why have two-hour watches? Yeah, it's not to do with relative position and time zones. Thankfully. It's just, this is just standard. Just because it's going from Katie,

I'm assuming it's a maths question. I'm like, this must be a really math question. Is it just because to give some, so that some people don't have to, if you keep moving it around, it's like, yeah, you only get a two-hour, watch this time. Isn't that nice? Is it just fair, nice? That doesn't seem very military to me. Yeah, that's true. Naval. Oh yeah, naval. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Naval tradition. I mean, I guess a relevant

question to ask would be how many groups of people are taking turns at doing these watches. So one person always gets the short one each day? Well, that's the question. Like, who would get the short one each day? So generally, there are, like, like, like either two groups of people taking turns or three groups of people like alternating, taking the watches. Oh, because otherwise, hang on a minute. Yeah, if it was four, there'd be one, two, three, four, five, six, well, six, sorry, yeah, 24 divided by four.

There'd be six watches. Okay. They've extended it out to seven watches. Oh, prime number. So it goes round and round. Changes every time. Is that right? It does.

So you don't have the same watches each day? Yes. So there'll be some kind of grim. middle of the night watch that is horrible, they make it so that that is a different group each time it comes round. And with seven watches, it doesn't matter whether you have a two watch, a three watch, a four watch cycle. It will always be out by one. Yeah. Huh. Maths. It was a math question. Yeah, yeah. Should have known. It's really cool. So there's usually two or three teams, but because, as you say, seven would work for four or five as well, I guess,

eventually. And it means that you don't have the same watch on consecutive days. So it might be a couple of days later you have the horrible watch again, but you don't get it every single night. And naval historians believe that the term dog watch is a corruption of dodge watch because it's the dodge, it's the sort of easy one where you dodge out of having a difficult long, long period of, it's just like an easy one because it's only two hours. Because you can do, there are pieces of music and pieces of dance that have seven,

that are in beats of seven that you, when you perform together, you start to go out of cycle with each other. And then there'll be a point where you all like sync up. It's quite cool. So there's a, I've seen a few dances. Like cicadas. Yeah, it is exactly the cicadas thing. That's the thing where they tend to have like a prime number of years in their lifespan.

which means that they will kind of emerge and be a large population every like 17 years or whatever it is. And any predator that has a sort of two or three year lifespan will not sync up with them very often compared to what they would if they had like a 12 year lifespan when they'd get the predators every time. But it's, yeah, that's evolution. That's just happened naturally. This was deliberate by the Navy. They, you know, thought about this. They were like, oh, we can do some maths. I reckon they saw those dances.

that's what I reckon. I think it's great. Yeah. Thank you to Ben Wiles for this question. Charlie is piloting a Boeing 737. He's cleared to take off and climb to 37,000 feet. As the aircraft levels out, he glances at a display on the overhead panel

and sees a reading of just 7,000 feet. Despite this, Charlie is unconcerned. Why? And one more time, Charlie is piloting a Boeing 737. He's cleared to take off and climb to 37,000 feet. As the aircraft levels out, He glances at a display on the overhead panel and sees a reading of just 7,000 feet. Despite this, Charlie is unconcerned. Why?

You know what my genuine first thought was, that like a 737 is like a passenger aeroplane, so there's a bunch of people on it. And if there were 3,000 people, 3,500 people on it, it might just be the number of feet that there are on the plane. And he's like, yep, that's correct. That's how many I was expecting. But anyway... That's such a lateral answer.

It's wonderful. Standard air traffic control thing. They don't say, they don't say souls on board anymore. They say souls on board. This is typically. Good job. Oh, wow.

I'll be honest, that joke came to be halfway through the sentence. I was so proud of it. You really kept you cool. I could see you when the joke appeared and you were like, but now it's, souls.

Souls, yes. But anyway, it's not that. Okay. So he was clear to go to 37th. doesn't mean he has to go to 37,000. You know, he could just go to 7,000 for a bit, man then go up to 37,000. Was it just a little middle pause level out?

He has actually made it up to 37,000 feet. Okay. And to be clear, so has the plane. Good. All this good. I'm assuming this is like a separate reading that's not the reading of his altitude, but it's something else that... Oh, it's not what's left, is it?

That's not space. works. I just don't need 7,000 left and then you're off before you hit the edge. Like,

you're off to Mars. See you later. Don't want to break the sphere and let all the air out. Okay, that's it. Okay, that's not how planets work. Okay, mine. So he's at 37 and the thing reads seven.

Yes. If he was at 36,000 feet, would it read 6,000 feet? It would still be about 7,000. Interesting. So it's not just a how high above 30,000 feet are uometer. Yeah. I mean, it's got to be there for a purpose. It's got to be some useful information that he needs to know. Or is it a bit of broken. Is it like, that's the first? You know, we're like, oh, don't worry about that one. That's always saying seven.

I mean, you're right that he's unconcerned. He's also looking at the overhead panel. which is really not where most of the flight controls are. Yeah. It's not a sticker, is it? We just need to make sure it's not a sticker. It's not a sticker that's... It's not a sticker. This is genuinely reading 7,000 feet.

Okay. So what we're saying? This thing isn't necessarily reading the height, it's not reading the height of the plane, obviously. So what else could it be reading? Like, that's the question, I guess. What could be 7,000 feet when he's at 37,000 feet, other than the number of feet on the plane?

Is it like, is it a distance forwards? Yeah, I was thinking that forward distance, like a different distance, how... It's staying stable at 7,000 feet. Per square inch and it's to ruin pressure. Is it... It's maths. Oh God, is it actually... Is it that?

Is it like 7,000 feet? Yeah, that's how you measure pressure, isn't it? Could it be? Feet per square inch wouldn't be pressure, I guess. It would be... I mean foot pounds is a unit of pressure if you're from the past. I'm going to keep quiet for a minute. I'll keep thinking about that.

Okay. So that is, you know, think about it. Yeah, let's just, I think we all got it. Let's just think about it a bit more. What do you mean by pressure? In the cabin? Is it like the air in the cabin? Is it like, hmm, this is some average good to contain stable pressure air

at 7,000 feet of air per Boeing plane? Is it that the interior cabin pressure is, yeah, is what it would have been if you were at 7,000 feet? Yes, yes it is. Oh, there we go. It is the air pressure gauge for the cabin. So we ask you to give me a little bit more there. So does the altitudeometer use the air pressure outside

to determine how high up you are? When you take off on a plane, what happens to the air pressure? What do you feel? All your crisp packets blow up. So the air pressure in the plane gets lower? It does, yes. Okay.

I'm basing that entirely on criss packet mechanics that I've experienced on planes. Yeah, as you take off, the pressure in the cabin gets lower. Why 7,000 feet versus 37,000? Because that's still an all right pressure for everybody in the plane. Yes. So they just get 7,000, then they're like, Right. Now it's like, shut the window.

Yeah. Whatever. Shut the window, yeah, exactly. Get that breath up. And then it's like, okay. Yeah, that's absolutely right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

As you take off, the pressure in the cabin does drop a little. But it drops only to about 7,000 feet because above that, it's not really survivable if you get too much higher. So if he looked up and he'd seen 37,000 feet, what would he have to do? Drop the Dufers, the masks that you put on yourself before you, yeah. Drop the oxygen masks. Yes.

This is the air pressure sensor in the cabin, which should read about 7,000 feet when a pilot's up at altitude. Oh, very good. Wow, there we go. Sof, over to you, please. This question has been sent in by Isabel McCracken. Thank you, Isabel. In the early 1900s, salesman for the first,

pharmaceutical company Up John visited doctors in Michigan, bringing along a pine board and a hammer. Why? I'll read that again. In the early 1900s, salesmen for the pharmaceutical company Up John visited doctors in Michigan, bringing along a pine board and a hammer. Why? I'll say it. What's up, John? Yeah, what's up, John? Nothing much. It's a pharmaceutical company, Tom. It was in the question. Yeah. So what do we think, team?

There's a story about... So this is a US advertising story from a long, long time ago. There's a tourist attraction called Rock City, which is a collection of curiosities and things on top of a mountain with a good view. And the way they advertised it is they sent people out to offer to paint barns for free. your farmer's barn

will get a brand new coat of paint all be restored provided they could also paint Visit Rock City on the top of it as a billboard and I'm trying to work out if there's something similar that pharmaceutical companies

could come along with it with a pine board and a hammer to like advertise their drugs Oh is that what they do We got That was not where I went Oh where did you go Lizzie Picture this

A calcium deficient area Some people turn turn up and they're like, buy some vitamin instruments and people are like, no. And then they're like, watchers. And then they smash a bone on the pine board. And they're like, eat some calcium. But I think it's probably the advertising thing rather than them using them as bone smashing boards.

I wonder if there's like some kind of demonstration they do that involves using a pine board and a hammer that proves to people that they need some kind of medicine that they didn't think they needed. That is what for. as usual company to make a lot of money from, particularly in North America.

I would say if you take Tom's theory and Lizzie and Katie's theory together, Lizzie and Katie are closer than Tom.

hilarious. It's bone smashing. We worked it out. You could have let me down in a less cruel way, but sure. That was cruel.

Me? Oh, I'm so sorry, Tom. We're two people, so we've got more thinking power between us, so it's only fair. No, Tom. Your ideas are really good.

They're so good. Never mind. Never mind. Just put me down truly. That's better. You're trying so hard. Yeah. You've got a podcast, Tom.

All right. All right. Fine. Thank you. I regret. I regret entirely even mentioning that. Okay. So in the question, who, who, right?

Are these, you know, who's being visited by who think about? Is it reps visiting, like, doctors? to try and get them to buy the drugs. It's not selling drugs to individuals. Okay. Salesman visiting doctors. It's not stepped right up by the snake oil. It's trying to come into the doctors.

Okay. So the doctors would understand more medicine than the average person. So they would need convincing using something that was... Using a hammer! Yeah. I mean, convincing is definitely a thing you can do with a hammer. Okay. It's a farmer company, right?

Let's think about what they might be trying to sell. Drugs, pills, potions. Picture this. Put a board out and they just put their hand on the board and they're like, hard to find good pain relief these days. And then they hit their own hand with a hammer. And they're like, didn't even feel it. Buy paracetamol or whatever.

So I didn't mean to, in my sort of degrading of Tom, I didn't mean to really enthusiastically encourage Lizzie's love of smashing body parts. part. This is not that. In fact, Tom, you said something in you when, yeah, when you answered my last question, Tom, you said something

that could take you down a good lead. Pills, potions and something else. I was trying to work out what they might be selling. So it was... Like bandages or equipment or... It's not a surgical hammer. No, stop thinking about smashing body bits.

Did they just go in and smash up all the stuff in the doctor's surgery and then they're like, oh, it looks like you need to buy some stuff. No, yeah, it's not destruction. Mafia pharmaceutical company. Yeah. Literally one of the things you said, Tom. One of the, yeah. Which one?

I can't remember what I said. The two you gave to them were pills and potions. Yes. Was it the other one? No, it was one of those two. So think about one of those two. Well, they're going to be trying to sell pills, aren't they? Are they smashing up pills on the board?

Okay. So they're like, right, you want to, how? some of this medicine and then they're like, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, and they smash up some that and then they roll them out because you used to roll them. No, no, hold on, hold on. There are compounding pharmacies, and there are pharmacies that just sell pills. So there are pharmacies where they're not just selling the pills that were made in the factory. They have the raw ingredients to make pills. They have doses of the medicine that get measured out and put together. So are they advertising something like, will we hammer

are the pills together for you? No. No. They're not. Are they getting pills from competing pharmaceutical companies and smashing them open to show that they're just powder and that their pills are obviously better because they've got something in? Take that idea and do something different with it. So compete, you're right. They are comparing with competing.

They are comparing with competing pills. So it does involve taking competitors pills and their pills and doing a comparison. All pill and no filler. So they're trying to prove that their pills are really strong, are they? Oh. So they're going to smash up some other stuff and be like, this is weak. Is the strength of the pill related to the amount of like gumph that they've put in to pad it out? Because that's a thing, right?

When they make drugs, they put like chalk or whatever to make the pill bigger. and they're like, it'll crumble more easily if it's got a higher chalk content or something. Okay, there's a lot of conversations around what, some of you saying, oh, well, these pills will be better because they have this quality, whereas they want to actually, what kind of quality do you want,

or would you not want in a pill? Yeah, you'd want them to be break up and be absorbed by the body really fast. But you'd want them to not break up inside the pillbox, the canister. Okay, yeah, go with, Lizzie's idea that you don't want it to be. Sorry. So they would try and smash some pills and it would be quite hard and then they'd do theirs and it'd be quite easy, would it?

So they're like, these pills are really hard to smash that you're using. But these ones will crumble in an instant. Okay, which is good because... Because it's better absorption. Yeah. So if it's painkillers, then they're quicker act faster acting because they're going to be breakdown quicker. And so what is going to happen? Yeah, with a pine board and a hammer and you get one of the other pills. what will happen, one of the competitor pills. Will it dent the pine? Because pine is a soft wood.

So if you turn up and like you get your competitor's pill and you slam it with a hammer, the pill will survive and the wood will have a dent in it. And Inez will crumble with it. And that will convince the doctor that perhaps these pills are not ideal for the patient. Yeah, exactly. We got there.

There's a good team, team collaborate. So basically, so we got, I don't we sound so excited. I'm, you guys, everything I say sounds sarcastic. I'm just going to stop. So basically, yeah, so, Upjom, Pharmaceutical. I'm proud of us. You said the word pills, Tom. Hey, listen, that was, that was big.

Oh, no, listen. Okay, so, yeah, upjohn pharmaceutical companies would go around doctors with a piece of pine and a hammer and they'd be like, here's our competitor's pills. If we put it on the pine, would we hammer it? The pill literally gets hammered into the wood. Whereas theirs, were what's called friable. They could be crushed by your fingers,

and that meant that they were more soluble, and so the chemicals could be taken up by your body more easily. And that was how they sold their pills with a pine board and a hammer. Which just leaves us the question sent in by Gavin Chan, from the start of the show. In October 2025, one of India's national cricket teams set a new record with 18. Why did they feel hard done by?

Any guesses from that? I'm assuming it wasn't. 18 cricket points. Cricket points. You know, runs or whatever's good in cricket. It's 18 of something bad. It is 18 of something bad, yes. Is it 18 people out?

How big's the cricket team? They didn't get everyone just sent off. And they were like, you get a yellow card. You get a yellow card. You're red card. You're off. Is that a thing in cricket? Was it?

Yeah. Yeah. I think if you get sent off in cricket, something's gone very wrong. Yeah, you just hit someone with a cricket bat. It's not a contact sport. Was it how many times their match got, like, cancelled? It kept getting, like, moved the date of it.

It was like 18 times. They were like, oh, it's got rained off again. It's got rained off again. Not quite, but it's something like that that's outside the sort of normal cricket play. Yeah. How many times they hit the ball so far that it went off over the fence and they couldn't get it back?

I think they'd still celebrate that. Yeah, that's good in cricket, isn't it? But when, you know, when I was a kid playing cricket, that was the worst thing that you could do. Everyone's like six, and I was like, now we have to buy a new ball. This is nothing to do with their skill. Okay.

If it's not to do with skill, what might it be to do with? Just bad luck. It's just bad luck. They lost the coin toss. Is there a coin toss at the start of a cricket game? Yep, keep going. 18. 18?

18. 18. Failed coin tosses in a row is deeply unlikely. That's quite impressive. They lost the coin toss 18 times in a row. The odds of that are won in 262,144. This is the India men's one-day international team who lost the coin toss 18 times between the 9th of November, 2023 to the 25th of October 2025. Two years of always losing the coin toss. At time of writing, they haven't had any more matches since, so that sequence could be extended,

and there's a 50-50 chance it will be. Yeah, coins. Congratulations to all our players. Where can people find you? What's going on in your lives? We will start with Lizzie. Well, Murder She Didn't Write Art on tour, so stay in touch.

Come and see the show at Murder She Didn't on all the various socials. If I need to promote other things, I'm selling some things on Vinted. No, don't promote that. You don't want people hunting, down your old vintage stuff. Yeah.

Katie. I am deeply findable on the internet. There's only one of me. And if you search for me, you'll find all the various things I'm doing, including the finite group, which is our Discord and Patreon, for people who like to hang out with other maths people. So the Discord is free to join. We do live streams once a month where we chat about some interesting maths.

And Sof. If you search Sof's notes, you'll find all the things I've ever done that are publicly available. And I'm on a podcast called, or at least I was recently on a podcast. called Lateral, so you can check that out and hopefully enjoy. And if you want to know more about this show, you can do that at Lateralcast.com. We can also send in your own ideas for questions. We are at Lateralcast basically everywhere, and there are weekly video, full episodes on Spotify.

Thank you very much to Sophie Ward. Thank you so much. Katie Steckles. Thank you very much. And Lizzie Skippeke. Cheers. I've been Tom Scott, and that's been Lateral.