Lateral with Tom Scott - 198: The impossible photograph

Episode Date: July 24, 2026

Ella Hubber, Caroline Roper and Tom Lum from 'Let's Learn Everything!' face questions about academic admissions, eight-legged equines and five-dollar flights. LATERAL is a comedy panel game podcast about weird questions with wonderful answers, hosted by Tom Scott. For business enquiries, contestant appearances or question submissions, visit https://lateralcast.com. HOST: Tom Scott. QUESTION PRODUCER: David Bodycombe. EDITED BY: Julie Hassett at The Podcast Studios, Dublin. MUSIC: Karl-Ola Kjellholm ('Private Detective'/'Agrumes', courtesy of epidemicsound.com). ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS: Steven W., Jeff Wright, Kate, Rotar, Jagan, Carlos, Noah Goob, Adrian. FORMAT: Pad 26 Limited/Labyrinth Games Ltd. EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS: David Bodycombe and Tom Scott. © Pad 26 Limited (https://www.pad26.com) / Labyrinth Games Ltd. 2026. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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The answer to that at the end of the show. My name's Tom Scott, and this is lateral. Sorry, with you in a second. Give me a moment. Sorry. Oh, yeah, no worries, no worries. Somewhere here. Is that... No? No, that's the receipt.

Hang on. Give me a minute. Give me a sec. It's very unprofessional. I'm fine. I'm fine. Honestly. Fine.

It's fine. I'm... We all... Right. Sorry. Yeah. Yeah. We're fine.

Right. Hello. Welcome to Lateral. The podcast where everything runs like clockwork. The ride of your clock is powered by vibes and loose paperwork. Sorry. Sorry about that. Just a brief professional delay while I locate my script and my sense of purpose.

And my sense of purpose. Today we have three wonderful guests waiting patiently while I performed what can only be described as an interpretative dance about preparedness. It is the folks from Let's Learn Everything. Welcome back to the show. We will start with Ella Hubber. Hello. Thank you for having us. How are you doing, Ella? I'm so fantastic. That was great physical comedy. I really liked the little... Thanks. I put cushions down in advance and did a great fall onto the floor. We were... We were dead silent after you fell down.

No, it was just like, what do we do here? Can I tell you, Tom, and this is peek behind the curtains, I hate to do this. We had a bit planned also, and I think that bit knocked our bit a little... Yeah, we saw the bits gone. I can't do it. Hey, Tom, you outbitted us. Congratulations. That is difficult. Tom Lum, I think King of Bits, thank you very much for that accolade.

Too kind, too kind. These two are more kind for putting up with it. There's a such a thing is too far. There's such a thing is too much. And Caroline Roper, I'm going to put the serious stuff onto you. Do you want to plug the podcast and live show and explain for new listeners who you are and what Let's Learn Everything is? Yeah, so we're Let's Learn Everything, which is a science and comedy podcast where we are trying to learn literally anything and everything interesting. And we are doing a live show soon as well.

we're doing on the 13th of October at the Bedford in London. You can find tickets at let's learn everything.com forward slash live. Maybe one of us will do a pratfall. Come and see us. Incredible plug. Right, everyone is here.

The microphone is on. The chair has stopped squeaking. Let's pretend that every single error in this show is just as intentional and move briskly onto question one. This question has been sent in by Jagan. In 2007, Jagan was thrilled to be offered a college campus placement. He reached into his pocket and texted his mother to say that he'd been selected.

However, upon reading the message, his mother was heartbroken. Why? And one more time, in 2007, Jaggan was thrilled to be offered a college campus placement. He reached into his pocket and texted his mother to say that he'd been selected. However, upon reading the message, his mother was heartbroken. Why? It's got to be a pun. It's got to be like, M-I-T.

Am I the T, but it's MIT, right? It's got to be some name of the school sounds like. Wow. Yeah, oh, that's a good, that's a good one. That was the most clasping at straws I've ever seen. No, I'm not doing. Wow. My example was bad, but I think the premise is...

Yeah, okay. No, the premise good, what just happened? Yeah, it was better than my deal, which is like auto-corrected the name of the school to, to dead or something. I'm dying. I mean, Ella, you talk down your own guest there.

Honestly, not that far away. The goal of bump said, spike. Oh, okay, I have cancer. Is that, was the message that cost set? Sorry, I didn't, sorry, for a moment my brain thought that was just an admission. Yeah.

That was just, suddenly bringing down the tone of the podcast there. This is my last, I just wanted you guys to know. I feel like I need to just touch wood and do all sorts of superstitious things just to make sure that doesn't come true now. Thank you. I appreciate that.

Harvard. Hard. Yale. Yale. So it's an auto-correct situation where the name of the school becomes something not good. Columbia. This is 2007. Okay, so not auto-correct.

It is not to do with the name of the place. Are you sure you don't want us to continue listing schools in a funny way to see what to make fun? I'm glad I'm not good at puns. I'm in? Like, I made it? So it made me a phrase like that. I got in? Yeah.

Wait, it's not, in 2007, like, smartphones aren't a thing yet. Are they? I'm thinking about, like, having to press three times to get a thing yet. letter in, but not pressing the right number of times. Oh, T9. Yeah. Oh. T9 texting, yes. Yeah. Although that's not quite pressing the letter multiple times, Caroline. It's pressing the button on the phone multiple times to get to the letter. No, it's not. Oh, no. That's not T9. T9 is a very specific thing. Oh, I'm going to ask you to reach back to your texting days. You're right that this is one of those old school phones with a keypad and multiple letters on each number.

I would like to clarify, what year was this again? 2007, if you say you weren't born yet, I'm going to walk off here. I was nine years old at that point. Oh, that heard even me. I had a phone like this. I had a phone like this. Yeah. Yeah, I had a motor roller razor.

I didn't, yeah, a moral razor. What, banging phone, mate. I wasn't going to have a phone for another three years, so. But, wait, so it's not, but I have a roll razor. But I thought, is T9 not pressing the numbers multiple, like, da, da, da. No, that's the standard text entry on phones. I find it really interesting that you have remembered the name of T9, but not what it actually did.

Yeah. Huh. Is it you just hold the button? You were talking about autocorrect. It's not that. Oh, you type the numbers in, and it translates that into a word that it thinks it is. So you don't have to press it multiple times. It, like, smart guesses.

Uh, yeah. Okay, so, so if we can think of it, if we can reverse engineer like, I got it, I got in into what are the letters? I don't have the time or capacity for this. I got in, hail satan. He only sent one word. I, oh, yes. Accepted. It's, it's very close to accepted, yes.

In? He had been chosen. Chosen. Chosen. Do you just put chosen? You put chosen. Wait, okay, wait. This is...

Selected. Selected. Oh, selected. Yes. C-A-C-T-E-D. So he's taken out his phone. He's very quickly. Rejected.

Rejected. Spot on Tomlum. I was going to do some like... Absolutely right. I'd written it down. I was going to do some like fun... Maybe there's an anagram there, something... Wrabish.

This is the location of the real... Your Declaration of Independence? Yes, selected and rejected have the same key pattern on T9 phones, so you need to check and hit the next word button if one of them is wrong. My favorite example of this is typing in Smyrnoff and getting poisoned. Oh, nice. Oh, I got to make, someone either has or I should make an algorithm for, like, other words it could have made. Yeah.

That's a fun. That's a fun. Yes, this is a personal anecdote, as you may have suspected, from Jagan, who texted the word selected to his mother, but actually texted the word rejected. Oh, dear. Tom, we will go to your question, please. Fantastic.

This question has been sent in by Rotar. In the PC game, golfing over it, there are no checkpoints on the entire climb. But the game saves the ball's position automatically. The game is always, also saved if a lesser used key is pressed, which one and why? I'll say that again, in the PC game golfing over it, there are no checkpoints on the entire climb, but the game saves the ball's position automatically. The game is also saved if a lesser

used key is pressed, which one and why? A lesser used key, meaning you don't not use it for the normal controls of the game, I would assume. Correct. Well, then it could just be anything. Like, I assume it's like a W-A-S-D-Pad kind of game. So I believe it uses the mouse, I believe, is the main controls for this game. Oh, interesting. Okay.

Well, then it could be anything. It could be, yeah. I'll say figuring out sort of the hints of what the game is will give you a hint as to the type of game. so that could help you. Golfing over it. Yes. Okay, so it's a golf game. If it's not a golf game, that's a very bad title.

It is, but there's, it's a golf twist on something. If you are familiar with it. Yeah, wait, you said climb. I did. Golfing over it gives the vibe of like, you have to shoot the ball over, like, a mountain or like a six-meter hill, throwback to the last. Kind of. I think Ella and Caroline will have,

Ella, perhaps more, would have run into this game. It's a pastiche on a famous game. Relatively modern indie game. It's not the game where you have the axe, and then you have to throw it and then hold and then pull yourself forwards. Is it? I don't know. The name of that game. Oh, yes. What's that? I can't remember what the game is called.

You're exactly right, Caroline. I don't know where that came from. Do you know this, Tom? on me, sorry. This is, I've seen clips of this on TikTok. Oh, it's a guy. He's in like a, he's in like a cauldron. Yes, he is.

And he has, he has an axe or something like a sledgehammer and he swings it and that hooks onto things and you pull yourself up and up and up and up and up into space, basically. Yeah. So you're golfing upwards then. Yes. Is that the idea onto different platforms? So I'll say, what is this game known for aside from your peculiar description of it?

If you like miss or something. like that, you go like all the way back down again. And people get very, very upset about it. This game is called Getting Over It with Bennett Fadi. Benet Fadi, a tremendous experimental indie. Oh my God, golfing over it. Okay. And it is a meditation on difficulty. Like, that's, the original game is purposefully about being an extremely difficult game. Is it like, when you fall and, or when the golf ball falls, you like slam your keyboard in frustration, so you have to have a key that isn't like going to be slammed in frustration. You're getting close to, you're very close.

And I wonder if Tom Ken has some, some thoughts on keyboard and, uh. Yeah. So, so you're climbing a mountain. Yes. And also, also hitting a golf ball up. Also hitting a golf ball up the mountain. Are you also the character climbing or are you just, or is it just a golf ball? I think you're the golf ball.

Okay. You are the golf ball. And you're hitting up. It's not mountain, right? It's like platform, a platform up, is that right? I think it like starts as a mountain and eventually becomes platforms, but the goal is to reach the very top. So there are no checkpoint.

So if you meet, which must be almost impossible. Yeah. These games were famous for streamers playing them and then having these truly horrific, like you fall all the way to literally the start of the game and you have to start over. Okay. And if you miss one of the platforms with the golf ball, you're going all the way back to the start, you're going to be angry. Yeah.

Not mean to say the obvious thing. Have you considered not playing this game? This does not seem like... This does not seem like a good game. I don't know much about game design, but it feels like that's bad game design. It is... The first one was, and again, genuinely about

why we do difficult things. Like, I think the first one was really sort of like an actual... And I think some of the variations of it may have lost the plot a little bit. Okay. But there's something there. It doesn't save at any point unless... So it saves automatically because in many ways, saving is bad.

So you can't, for example, like, there's a term I think called saves coming where you like save before like a big important thing so then if you mess up, you can go back. So you can't do that here. So you said it saves if there's a certain key press or something else. Is it like a punny or like supposed to be funny saving thing? Like, you have to press L to say to indicate you are a loser. No, no, no, no. It is funny.

And but the point is that so the game saves automatically like every so often. And that's unfortunate as a player because you kind of wish it saved whenever you wanted. Right. But this manual, quote unquote, manual save happens at an inopportune time, I would say. So midfall, it might say for you, if you're like, but you said it was a not used key. Is this definitely a key on the keyboard of the player? It is. Or is it a key in the game?

Okay. Oh, I thought it's like you have to press a certain key note on the piano for in order to hear you. So I think getting the mindset. Wait, is it if you hit escape. Almost. You're almost there. It is like, oh no, the ball is falling. Yes. Exactly.

You're going to immediately go for a key to quit and instead it saves your game. Exactly. What key is that, I believe, specifically on Windows? Alter 4? So it's specifically the alt key. We'll always trigger it. Oh, because Alta 4 will close the program. Yes.

So it's like, oh, I know what they're doing. Save. Yeah. Yep. Uh-huh. Very good. Very good. It's beautifully sinister.

Yes, and the developer has confirmed this himself that this was done purposefully. Very good. So, yes, on Windows computers, Alt-F-4 is a common shortcut that closes the active program. And so this prevents players from trying to quit the game to return to a previous save in which they were safe. This is also any young listeners, why if someone is like, hey, here's a way to get free gold in World of Warcraft, if you press Alt-F4 and then the game, game quits. That's a common troll also. Thank you to Carlos from Zurich for this question. They Might Be Giants song Last Wave features Aerosmith and Run DMC in the video.

Lyrics include, if you try to make out with a biplane and now you have to buy me some antlers. How was the song written? I'll say that again. They Might be Giant's song, Last Wave, features Aerosmith and Run DMC in the video. Lyrics, The tricks include, if you try to make out with a biplane, and now you have to buy me some antlers. How was the song written? Whilst incredibly high. I was gonna say that too!

I was gonna say, drugs. Is that not the answer? I'm a fake they might be Giants fan, because I don't know this one off the bat. I have a... I only know one song by them, which is the Malcolm in the middle theme song. Oh, I didn't realize that was them.

Tell me about the band, Tom. If you're the person who knows that they're, knows about they might be giants. They're silly, but they make great music. There's a song called Dr. Worm. That's about a worm who's not a real doctor, but he does play the drums. Nice. Yeah, so mostly silly-ish songs.

But, yeah. Did they do, the sun is a massive incandescent gas, or is that a different weird band? Yes, that was them. Nice. I have a thought. Okay. But would the word race car be in these lyrics? It would not.

I mean, it could be, but not specifically. I think you're thinking of Weird Al Yankovic's song, Bob. Okay, yeah. So I thought these might be palindromes. And I wouldn't be surprised if these two quirky musicians also did palindrome songs. Weird Al's Bob is a Bob Dylan pastiche where every line is a palindrome. Oh, that's fun. Bob is a palindrome.

I love that it wasn't just palindromes. It had to be two bits, which is why he's the best. Okay, I'm going to just put my thoughts out there. The first one was they use some kind of random word generator. Yeah. And the second one is they translated some kind of piece of literature in a very poor translating software. Great guesses. Ooh.

They wrote the lyrics. They then put them into it. to Google in French and then took those and then converted them back to English and then converted them back in French and then converted them back to English and just did that a bunch of times until they saw what came out of it. Why would they have Aerosmith and Run DMC in the video then? For fun, because they liked them. I will tell you that they might be giants are not in the video for this song.

I don't know anything about Aerosmith or Run DMC. Oh, you might be too young to get a reference here. This is from the 90s, this song. Oh, yes, okay. Don't want to move a friend. It took me a while to figure out. Yes, Aerosmith, famous for Don't Want to Miss a Thing, and some other songs. Oh.

Will knowing the songs help? Dream on. Knowing one specific song will help, yes. I do know Aerosmith, it turns out. I just didn't know which ones they did. It's not Dream On. It's not Dream On. You do almost certainly know another Aerosmith song.

But the question is, can I parse it from an A. DECDUC song or a... These lyrics aren't like a response to a song title or something like that, are they? I would say yes, sort of. Oh, it's like a mash-up of two of their... Like an Aerosmith song and a run DMC song title or something. Are you familiar with the song, Walk this way?

Walk this way. Like how we all did it. Yes. That one. That... What do you know about that song? Bouda de da dae, Bauda dee bao bough.

Yeah, I know that I know what it sounds like. That's about as much as I know about it. Yeah. Keep going about it. What does it sound like? What goes on in that song? Play it through in your head. I can't think of anything.

How does the verse go? Well, those about a bed in a bit of a he, Bhabi Bhabi B'bba. Yeah, that bit Tom. Are they lyrics that somebody has thought the lyrics were? Misheard lyrics.

Misheard lyrics. You're getting very close now. Walk this way is a song by a song by Aerosmith that was later Aerosmith with Run DMC. The version that I think most people know is Aerosmith and Run DMC performing that song. Not quite a mash-up, just a cover with the original band doing some of the line.

Right, yeah, yeah. And it's not, it's misremembered lyrics that... It's not quite misremembered. Or misheard, sorry, misheard, no, it's not misheard. Not quite. I'm just glad that my loose gibberish was helpful. Tom, your loose gibberish is very much helpful here. I'll give you this again.

They Might Be Giant Song Last Wave features Aerosmith and Run DMC in the video. Oh, it's like a bad lip reading. Yes, it is, Ella. It is not just a bad lip reading. It is a bad everything reading. It is the band watching the video for Walk This Way, which is iconic for anyone who was around at the time, because it is...

Aerosmith in one room, run DMC in the other, banging on the walls, being angry at each other as the song plays in it, and they do their various parts. And they might be giants, watch the video, lip-synced new lyrics exactly for that song, and make surreal references to whatever's going on in the video, synthesizer hits play when one of them hits the wall. It is an entire song based around the run-d-d-mc video

that as far as I know, they do not have the rights to use as the official video. Wow. Wow, that's beautiful. That's awesome. That's art. That's art. We should do that with an episode of Lateral. Caroline, we will go to you, please.

This question has been sent in by Kate. Before going on a voyage, Kate takes an old cassette tape and breaks it apart. She also buys a bottle of laundry detergent and cuts it up. Why? One more time. Before going on a voyage, Kate takes an old cassette tape and breaks it apart. She also buys a large bottle of laundry detergent and cuts it up. Why?

She's a laundry spy. Some like... A spy for a rival laundry agency broke the tape. Message will self-destruct. Now, for the younger people on this call, a cassette tape. is better. Wow. Okay. Okay. This is going to be some kind of life hack, right?

Mm-hmm. Absolutely. It's got to be. What's something on you don't, that's hard to come by on a cruise or, no, no, a voyage. You said a voyage. You didn't say a cruise. I did say voyage. I just assumed. I was like, yeah, she's going on a cruise. A voyage to sprays? Oh, the voyage. She's going on the voyager. No?

Dang. Come on. Let me live in that space for a little bit. Breaking up an old cassette tape is going to give you some weird sprockets and things, but mostly a load of old plastic tape. Yeah. That you can wrap round things, tie up things, stretch out along a long distance.

Like, it's a lot of tape. I think you might be overestimating the sturdiness of the tape here as well. Like, it's kind of not that strong. Lots of broken up bits of tape. Yeah. It's the three of us sitting around this table trying to MacGyver this into something useful. Yeah, I'm like trying to imagine it. I need a crossbow! Let's see. Laundry detergent.

Cut in half, you said? I said it was cut up. Okay. I'm like, is that space saving thing for travel? Yeah. So that's gonna give you a concave surface that you can wrap some tape around. I did imagine for a second. One of those really bad life hack videos where it's like, that wasn't necessary. And this is how you defrost the pizza. And you're like wrapping the tape around the pizza and then you're pouring on three detergent shards on it.

These are two separate tools that Kate might find useful. Is this a normal voyage? Would this be useful for us on a voyage? Yeah, voyage seems like a very deliberate word choice there. Is it a kind of travel, like sea voyage? It could be. That's not helpful. Now you know how it feels. Three times an episode.

Okay. We should start doing a cryptic one of the start for Tom Scott's and lower until the end. We'll do that next time. Why would you break apart the cassette tape when that's just going to leave you with something that is like really tricky to deal with? Unless you need a ball of tape, that stuff's going to tangle so quickly. Doesn't matter if it tangles. That's okay. It's still useful for this purpose. Oh, oh, oh, oh, is it like a good fire starter?

No. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, is it shiny if you're lost at sea and you want to reflect an SOS signal? You're like, you're getting closer to what might be needed. Some sort of emergency supply, some sort of last ditch effort. A Hansel and Gretel Trail. No. You get lost, okay. You are heading out into the world.

wilderness for something. Is the detergible to collect water or something? If it's a cut-up bottle of detergent, it's not there to collect water, but what might keep water off you? Ella.

Elaborate on that one. Keep going down that route. I don't know. I was like to say like a hat, but I just like bring a hat, you know? Right. Is it like a self-contained underwater breathing? apparatus that you can concoct.

If you're on a boat, what don't you want to happen? Now we're on a boat. Okay, good. So we are on a boat. You're on a voyage. You're on a boat. You're on a boat. I want the boat to not sink. You want your boat to not sink? Oh, it's to get... Oh, well, again, I was going to say, like, it's to... To get water out? Get water out, but then like, but why would you not just have a bucket?

Think about the shape of a laundry detergent bottle, especially, I think this is more closely akin to what Americans might have for laundry detergent bottles, although I'm sure the Brits have this as well. I think the British equivalent would be one of those like a six-pint milk bottle or something like that, right? It's got a big old handle on it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Oh, the handle, okay.

Oh, is it the handle just helpful for scooping water out of the boat? Ella, that's exactly it on the laundry detergent side. No, no, no. Again, it's just have a tool for that on your boat. Have a bucket. It's not your fault, Carol. Thank you. We're not done yet.

We're not done yet. I can turn around. Okay, the tape. The tape? What is the tape used for? Is it also for the sinking boat? The boat's fine now. We've got the water off the boat.

We're playing in a role-playing game. We're dragging my items from my inventory. We've saved the boats. Now what do we do? What things do smaller boats have if you are on a boat? on a boat. A sail around. A sail. So what do sales need to

help move the boat? Ropes and pulleys? Wind. Wind? What might loose cassette tape help you with? It tells you the direction of the wind? It tells you the direction of the wind. Oh my God.

Come on. There's got to be... Bye. This is so nice. Again, Tom, really nice to see you again. There's got to be a better way. These are boat life hacks. These are.

are some boat life hacks for you. Yeah, that's exactly it. If you have the money to own and operate a boat, you have the money for the tools in which to get water out of the boat and look at the wind. Kate disagrees. Kate says, I'm a varsity college sailor and nearly everyone in Division I sailing

uses these two rather strange hacks. I guess it's a very small boat, right? So it's not like, yes. Yeah, yeah. If it's a racing sailing boat or something like that. Oh, this is like a one person. sailing boat. This is not a voyage across the sea.

This is when you need a tiny thing to remove a bit of water. Okay, Kate. And you're a student so you don't want to spend money on something big and professional to do it. I take it back. Kate, well, good job. This makes sense. I also realize, and maybe this is just purely me,

I realize that, of course, when the tape is in the tape, it's really compact, and then you break it. In my mind, they broke it, and then they were just carrying around this tangled mess. All of tape. But if it's compact, then it's actually, that's actually pretty gross. Oh, you bring the tape with you and you unspool it when you need it. You don't just complete, just hold of, you're not just holding.

I was picturing a handful of just tape. Yeah, okay, that's actually pretty good. But it would still be functional if you held onto it. So, to summarize, breaking the cassette tape pulls out some tape, which you can then use to figure out which direction the wind is blowing. really helpful for your sales. The laundry detergent, if you cut it up, makes a makeshift baler,

which you can then use to scoop water out of your boat. Okay. I'm really sorry, Kate. It's a good idea. Yeah, apologise to Kate. I'm sorry, Kate. Sorry, Kate. This next question comes from Noah Goob.

In 1848, 16-year-old Homan Walsh flew his kite, Union in Ontario for many hours until he got stuck in a tree overlooking a gorge. Homan was delighted, as was an engineer who awarded him $5. Why? It went off for so long. It went up for so long. I kept making turrets. In 1848, 16-year-old Homan Walsh flew his kite, Union, in Ontario for many hours until it got stuck in a tree overlooking a gorge. Homan was delighted. as was an engineer who awarded him $5. Why?

I feel like I'm losing my mind. That was such a like... I think the last question has set us off slightly. Oh, God. Take a deep breath, Tom. I was in the sky, I was a kite, then I was a 16-year-old, then there was a gorge, and then an engineer. And you were happy, and you got $5.

The weird thing is, I looked at this question and thought someone's going to clock this immediately, and I was wrong. No! My first assumption is like, I mean, this is too late, but my first feeling was like Benjamin Franklin with a key and a kite, you see it right? Yeah. Yeah. That was Hamilton lyrics, which is not cool.

It's not, and I had to stop myself from rattling off the entire rest of that song immediately. But like, yeah, it got caught up in the street, got struck by lightning or something like that. But not that. No, not that. Why would we get the name of the kite? The kite was named Union? The name of the kite is very slightly a clue. Okay, sure.

Where was this? Did you tell us where this was? I was Canada. Ontario. Not far away from a gorge, apparently. It was a kite called union because it was a union jack. And there was something... I don't know.

What? It's an engineer. They were trying to get their flag to the highest. point that they could possibly get it to, and flying it as a kite was the way to do it. And then some engineer was like, we've been trying to build up to that point for months, kid. Here, have $5. Wow. Honestly, Caroline, kind of close with that one.

You know, I have said so many stupid things today, thinking that they wouldn't be. That's just how it goes, isn't it? Yeah. It's just how it goes. The engineer's project could not start until this happened. Did the kite, like, go across the gorge, thus letting them, like, build a bridge across? With, on a kite string. Build a bridge from this kite string.

No, but, like, get the first rope across. Right, right, right, right. Because then you can... It was unclaimed land, and they had to have some kind of flag on it to claim it. And therefore, having the Union Jack claimed it. Tom, you've got most of this. Okay. You're right.

This was to start a bridge. ridge. The first thing they have to do is pull one cable. There's a few details I'm going to ask you to drill down on. So the kites on the other side now. So you've got one end of your kite on one side of the gorge, your other end of the kite on the other side. Somebody could be on the other side. So all you'd have to do is like attach the cable to the other, to the stringy end of your kite, somebody at the kitey end of your kite, then just has to pull it. And that pulls across a cable across the gorge, which starts your process. And then you can get a bigger one and a bigger one and a bigger one.

Yeah. But you have to get that cable over to start with. What are we missing here? So you've got the why. Yeah. I'm not convinced you've got the what here yet. There's still a few clues in that question. Was this a cross?

I don't know where Ontario is geographically close to America. Was this like crossing a border to America? Yes. Yes, it was. Is this related to Niagara Falls at all? It is Tom. Ever. Yes.

This was. the world's first railway suspension bridge, and it was across the Niagara. Wow. Whoa. I guess it's a gorge. Technically, I feel like that that's a real... Yeah. Ontario, near a gorge.

And Homan spent many hours doing this because this was a contest. He was not the only person, flying kites. Oh. You see, in my head it was just some kid had a kite. accidentally did it and some Rondon engineer came up and was like, have $5, but no, that was a reward for getting your kite over the gorge.

And that kite name was a clue, Union, because that is the border between Canada and the United States and they were building a bridge across it. Oh, nice. Holman was successful on his second attempt. He was awarded a $5 prize, which doesn't sound like much,

but inflation calculates, like purchasing power calculates are complicated, but that will be, be roughly about $3,000 today. Oh, not bad for some kite work. Like, if you put $5 in a bank, not $3,000, but like the equivalent of being given $5 to a 16-year-old then, that's about $3,000 today.

That one kite string then pulls a bigger cable and a bigger cable and bigger cable, and eventually you have the world's first railway suspension bridge. Wow. I'm still stuck on the gorge as a misleading. is like, I'm sure there's tons of geologists who like want to visit it for the gorge, and they're like, oh, these waterfall heads. Take it all the glory. It's the gorge that's important.

The bridge was pulled down a few decades later. It's been replaced since, but that was the very first. Wow. Ella, over to you, please. This question has been sent in by Jeff Wright. In 1943, Edwin took a photograph of his daughter while on holiday. She asked a simple question about the picture that eventually led to the picture. creation of something once thought impossible. What did she ask and what was created? Once more.

In 1943, Edwin took a photograph of his daughter while on holiday. She asked a simple question about the picture that eventually led to the creation of something once thought impossible. What did she ask and what was created? Looked at the picture and said, Father, can we split the atom? And then I'm not sure it was Edwin Oppenheimer. I also think the timing's off by like a year or two. Yeah, just a little. Also, it was Lisa Maitner who discovered that you could split the out of, not.

Thank you, thank you. Just want you to know. Wow. She doesn't get enough credit. Actually, I was really defensive there. I've never heard that name before. Actually, that is on me. Yeah.

Yeah, Tom. Yeah. Say, what if we used a computer to digitize this image here? That'd be pretty cool. The internet. And then her eyes rolled back on her head and she was like, don't invest in Twitter. It will go bad, all these future things.

It was 1943. Yeah. She got future visions. Okay, but not digital camera, but some sort of like image manipulation thing. Like, I'm not saying Photoshop that early, but maybe there's something about why, can't we, why is it in black and white

or something like that? Why can't, maybe she was wearing a really bright dress that day was like, oh, why does that, why does it look grey? It's not the subject of the photo. Oh, also, colour photography was a thing by then. I'd missy with like, I think, a red, green, blue process. But, of course, no, sorry, technically colour was a thing by 1943. Yeah, I mean, there's always advancements to it that are happening, but, yeah.

You said a word there, though, Tom, that is pretty key. Did I? to this, not key, but it can help you. Technicolor? No, nothing to do with color. Three-dimensional movies, moving pictures. I'm just going to give it to you. It was the process. Oh, interesting.

Oh, what if I could shake this picture, like a Polaroid picture? Oh, no. No, it's Polaroid. It's Polaroid. Why did it take so long for me to see that? Or why can't I see it right now? You got it, Tom. You got it, Tom. Tom's. That was Tom's. Yeah, that's Tom's. I had nothing to do with that one. No, no, that was a bump set spike there.

She asked, why can't I see the photo now? And that led to Polaroid. So this is an American scientist, an inventor called Edwin H. Land. And he was on holiday in Santa Fe with his family. When he photographed his young... I was hoping it was Edwin H. Polaroid. Oh, that would be good. That would be better. Yeah. Yeah. He was on holiday in Santa Fe with his family when he photographed his young

daughter Jennifer and she reportedly asked why she couldn't see the photograph right away and at the time film photography required developing the image, you know, later in a dark room. And this, so the question kind of prompted him to explore the idea of instant photography, which led to the first practical instant camera and film system. And he did found the Polaroid Corporation. I don't know where the name comes from. But then their first Polaroid camera, that first instant camera came out in 1948. That's a quick time around.

As usual with Let's Learn Everything, we have unlocked the shiny bonus question. Yeah! This question comes from Adrian. When might a horse be described as an octopus? I'll say it again. When might a horse be described as an octopus? That's a good one. I was in my head as you were asking that going,

what is the most ridiculous thing that you could possibly say next? An octopus was not the thing that my brain went to, So wonderful. I mean, for the next question, how is a raven like a writing desk? That's exactly. It's just such a nice riddle feel to it. Well, you did grumble about the length of the Niagara question. So I was like, let's find a really nice short concept. Is this any better?

Let's find a really nice short simple one. Malicious compliance. Yes. Yeah. Oh, now you say malicious compliance? No. Absolutely nothing to do with the answer. Oh, come on.

We wouldn't do this to other guests. We deserve it, though. We deserve it, though. My first thought is like something in coding, computer software, things get weird names. That's a great suggestion. Two horses, you see them from the side. All four legs are in different directions look like an octopus. Two horses, one stacked on top of the other.

Is it an actual? Can I, look, maybe this is giving away too much, but is it an actual? horse and an actual, like an actual horse in the first instance. I mean, probably not. Yeah, I would have, I would, but is there a species of octopus that, like, has the name horse in its, like, species name? I think two horses is both no, a very accurate thing to say, and also a complete red herring. Okay, well, which?

You are not looking for eight legs here. Oh, okay. You're looking for, well, tall. Two horses don't have three hearts. How many... Two horses, three hearts can't lose. It's like, what? Someone says that before the big game is,

all right, guys, two horses, three hearts, can't lose. Not eight legs, but some other feature that two horses share with one octopus. I was going to say, Caroline, what do we know about octopuses there? How many hearts, how many brains they have? Well, they have like one central brain and then their legs just do like whatever the heck they want to do most of the time, which like a horse does that.

as well, to be fair. How many hearts do they have? We learned this. I think it's three, yeah. This is perhaps, to no one's surprise, not a literal horse. Well, what's the point of being here? But it's not a living, breathing animal horse, but you will know what this is. A taxidami horse?

No, but it's not a literal horse. Oh, boy, howdy. What other things are described with the term? Other things are horse, yes. A horse voice? Your voice, yeah. That's the only thing, is it H-O-A-R-S-E, are we being? Oh, no, no, it's not.

Although you wouldn't normally refer to this as a horse. Horses. Oh. Well, yeah. Two of them in one of two colors. What? I mean, maybe four in two colors, really. Oh, of course, of course, yes, yeah.

Yeah. I don't like the source. smugness with which you give us the clues. I don't like the smugness. You think I like the smugness? Just a little bit. I love that this question started off so short. And then just like every time you open your mouth, more comes from it.

More horse is. Stop growing. I can shut my mouth if you like. No, please keep going on. Please keep going. The positioning of the horse is important. And what might those two colors be? Okay, is it like a chariot, like a horse-drawn carriage, but that is a literal horse.

Is it a picture of a horse on a thing? A horse toy? Ooh, toy is closer. Is it a Lego horse? Lego horse isn't right, but it's about the right size. We're thinking about that scale. But it is a horse. Yes.

A small horse. One of two colors. Black and white? Yes, black and white. Black and white. Zebras? But that's... You're going to kick yourselves. I'm being slightly smug, because you're going to kick yourselves. Was a zebra warmer or colder?

Oh, definitely colder. It's a horse. It's black and white. It's not an entire horse. Oh my God. No. Okay. Yeah, sure, sure. The penny has just dropped. Do you want to be smugged with me, Tom? Or do you want to just solve this one? Just solve it for it. No, Tom, can you help us? I want to get it.

Is it like a horse that's been stuck together so it has eight legs? No, no. Is it... The name of it isn't horse. It is the head of a horse. It's the head of a horse about this size. And you play it in a game. And it's chess.

And it's chess. So why might you describe the knight in a game of chess as an octopus? Because when you are not up against the side or when you can move freely, you can move in up to eight pieces, but eight spaces, I believe. Is that correct? In chess, a knight depicted as a horse, is in the strongest position when it controls the maximum number of squares,

eight somewhere in the middle of the board, and that is known as an octopus knight. I never would have gotten that. We would have been here forever. I'm actually really unhappy right now. I think it's, well, okay, I'm clearly biased because I... It's good, it's good.

I think it's clever. Before Ella, and Caroline find a way to throw tomatoes through the internet at me. We will go to the question from the start of the show. Thank you to Stephen W. In the UK, a light must wait two minutes after a medium, and a medium

must wait three minutes after a super. In what circumstances? And you think this is going to make us not want to throw a tomato day? To be clear. My thought went to maximum weight capacities on a bridge, and it's like you've got to give it time

to see if the bridge is going to fall down before the medium goes over and then give it time until the super can go over. It's a transport question. Yes, it's not a bridge. Well, good light, but is it a load size, light to medium super?

Yeah. Well, size, certainly. Oh, just size. I mean, by definition, the bigger one can carry more, but this is about size. A transport. Is it so the load?

don't catch up with each other in some way? Not quite. Is it trains? It's not trains. Is it planes? It is planes, Tom. So what might light, medium and super be, and why might there be different waiting times?

Oh, oh, oh, is this on an aircraft carrier that's launching the planes? Not an aircraft carrier. It's just an airport. It's just an airport. I just take off times. Mm-hmm. Yeah, so is it just to do with how quickly

the plane can ascend and then they've got to leave an adequate gap in between the two so they don't like bump into each other. Everything about that apart from bumping into each other. Because the pilots can avoid that. They're not going to do that, yeah. Why might you not want a light immediately after a super?

Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, is it like the draft of the plane behind it? Yes, it is. Yes. When an airliner takes off, it generates wake vortices, just big old tubes of rotating. turbulent air, especially at low speeds, like takeoff and landing, they can persist, they can drift,

which means that if you are in a lightweight plane, the categories are light, small, medium, heavy and super. So if you are in a light, like just a two-person aircraft, and you are for some reason following a super, like a giant A380, you must wait long enough for those vortices to clear, or they can even cause loss of control. Wow. I had no idea. Thank you very much to our players.

I mean, I'm just going to say it. Plug the show. We'll start with Caroline. Tell us about Let's Learn Everything. Once again, Science Comedy Podcast, where we learn a science and a miscellaneous topic every episode. One host will bring the science topic. The other two hosts will have no clue what they're going to talk about.

So it's a bit of a mystery to the other listeners. Tom, tell us about the live show. It's going to be October 13th, I believe, can find all the details at Let's Run Everything.com slash live to keep updated on that. It'll be our first time doing a live show, which will be really exciting. It'll be in London. And we're really excited for it. We'll do, who knows what we'll do?

Maybe we'll do stunts like Tom Scott did at the start of this show. And Ella, where can people go to find out about the show or the tickets? Let's Let's Let's Everything.com slash live for the tickets. Let's at everything.com for everything else about us. And please do come because it will be just as chaotic as we are here. And if you want to know more about this show, you can do that at lateralcast.com. We can also send in your own ideas for questions and join the lateral producers club. We are at lateral cast, basically, everywhere.

And there are video episodes in full every week on Spotify. Thank you very much to Ella Hubber. Thank you. Tom Lum. Oh, that's been pleasure. And Caroline Roper. Have us back again. I'm glad you want to be back after those questions.

I've been Tom Scott, and that's been lateral. Thank you.