Lateral with Tom Scott - 25: A deliberately bad program

Episode Date: March 31, 2023

Brian McManus from 'Real Engineering', Sarah Renae Clark and Nicholas Johnson face questions about sincere symbols, shrewd signage and silly stickers. LATERAL is a comedy panel game podcast about weird questions with wonderful answers, hosted by Tom Scott. For business enquiries, contestant appearances or question submissions, visit https://www.lateralcast.com. HOST: Tom Scott. QUESTION PRODUCER: David Bodycombe. RECORDED AT: Podcasts NZ Studios. EDITED BY: Julie Hassett at The Podcast Studios, Dublin. MUSIC: Karl-Ola Kjellholm ('Private Detective'/'Agrumes', courtesy of epidemicsound.com). ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS: Eglė Vaškevičiūtė, Nicholas Johnson, Adrian Miguel, Adam Austerberry. FORMAT: Pad 26 Limited/Labyrinth Games Ltd. EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS: David Bodycombe and Tom Scott. © Pad 26 Limited (https://www.pad26.com) / Labyrinth Games Ltd. 2023. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In which film's end credits are four specific letters printed in a different typeface throughout? The answer to that at the end of the show. My name's Tom Scott, and this is Lateral. Welcome to the show where we prove that, ah, they think laterally is not just a euphemism for being clueless. Joining us today from the YouTube channel Real Engineering, Brian McManus. Hey, thanks for having me, Tom. Oh, thank you for being on. Does this feel a little outside your wheelhouse?

Because you're concentrating 100% on engineering in everything I see. And I'll be honest, I don't see many engineering questions in front of us at the minute. No, and being on camera and everything else feels outside of my wheelhouse. So hopefully I'll do okay. All right. Well, have all the confidence you want, because this is about finding the answer,

even if it might seem to be a long way away. So good luck to you. Next up, we have magician, author, podcaster, and professional con man, Nicholas J. Johnson. Hello there. Thank you. I'm probably more of an amateur con man. I really just do it for the love of the con. I should say this is on stage professional. You do pickpocketing, you do education about scams, things like that. Yeah, all of my work is about promoting critical thinking and scam deception and detection through magic, comedy, sideshow stunts, anything to get people's attention. And finally, we have artist, YouTuber and creator of the Colour Cube, Sarah Renee Clark. Hello there. Hi, how are you going? I'm going well. I have to ask about the Colour Cube because you said that a lot of folks are

going to know you from YouTube, but also a load of folks seem to know you from the Colour Cube. Yes, I have one, but that doesn't really work for your listeners though, does it? It's a box, it looks like a giant Rubik's cube, but it's full of colour palettes that people can use to help them find colours that work well together. So it's made for art, but it works for so many other genres as well. Alright, good luck to all of you. I'm going to be asking some questions where the only limits are your imagination and obviously the laws of physics. Although if you can break the laws of physics and teleport out of here, please do. We'd love to see it. We start with this. This is a listener question sent in by Adam Osterberry. Software engineer Kent Mitchell

was reviewing some code for a defense company. He informed them that the programme had numerous memory leaks. They replied, of course it leaks. Why was the issue never fixed? So one more time, software engineer Kent Mitchell was reviewing some code for a defence company. He informed them that the programme had numerous memory leaks. They replied, of course it leaks. Why was the issue never fixed?

Good luck, folks. it leaks why was the issue never fixed good luck folks does anyone want to try and define memory leak as a first thing that's my question yeah i i'm baffled by the phrase memory leak so this is this is a feature versus a bug situation this is something that he saw as a bug whereas they're saying no this is a feature it's supposed to do that that's that's how i understand the question not necessarily supposed to but they did not care i i guess the first thing to work out is what on earth a memory leak is because i i read that having a computer programming background oh yeah of course i know what that is i will i will make the first part of this question, what on earth is a memory leak?

A memory leak? Is it just bits being lost that it's not actually like leaking, the information isn't leaking, it's just like some of the data is getting corrupted over time? Yeah, that's fairly close. It's basically when a program doesn't quite keep track of everything it's doing

and just uses more and more and more memory over time and will eventually just break because of that. Oh, like Chrome, basically. Yes. Just Chrome all the time. Specifically, it doesn't do a thing called garbage collection, which is that it doesn't bother cleaning up after itself. So if they didn't care,

was it because they were trying to simulate something? You know, they were trying to simulate a situation rather than actually have a fully functioning computer that was working properly. They almost sort of wanted to observe what would happen when this memory leak occurs. Well, he was obviously surprised that it was leaking to be reporting it to them. But then they're saying, of course it leaks. So why was obviously surprised that it was leaking to be reporting it to them. But then they're saying, of course it leaks. So why was he surprised if he's come in and looked at it? If it was something it was intended to do, he shouldn't be surprised. Well, he said it wasn't intended, but just they didn't care. So that suggests it's, I mean, being the military, like it could just be a thing of we're going to, you know, we've got billions of dollars.

We don't care. We can just buy a new one. Or maybe they were just going to they were going to trash it. I guess it depends what the software was actually for. Like a defense company is a very could be a wide range of things. This is one of those moments where you watch all these lateral episodes and you're like, oh, this is going to be really easy to be a part of. And then you sit here trying to answer a question and go, I don't know what to say. What I love is that Nicholas twice now has done that. It's a linguistic thing. I remember studying it. You've done the intake of breath that indicates

you're about to speak. And then you've just decided not to. You are vaguely along the right lines. Military contractor is certainly something you picked up on. I feel like if it's military, it's either waste, like the military, they're just going to blow money on something. They don't care if, you know, it's okay if it leaks memory because we don't care. Or maybe, oh, is it something where they know that it's going to be destroyed?

Like it's like, I don't know, hangar. Oh, it's a bomb. Maybe it's like a bomb that has a computer in it. Do bombs have computers in them? Is that, I feel like that's circling something. It's got to be something that's going to be destroyed or tested. You are so nearly there. Like, yes to all those.

You're missing one key word. You're right. Why would a bomb have a computer on it and i saw brian nodding here because i'm pretty sure he will have done a video about something like this at some point the countdown clock on a detonator the one that has the red the red wire and the blue wire it's the it's the computer that the you know do you do you cut the green the blue wire or the red wire it's attached to maybe like that kind of computer, right? Yes.

The thing's blowing up, but why does it need a computer and not just a timer? Oh, is it like a missile guidance system? Spot on. If the missile guidance system has a computer and then it's leaking memory, but that doesn't matter because it's about to be blown up. So who cares? They worked out how long that missile could possibly take to reach its target, doubled it,

figured out that it's not going to break in that time and just did not bother fixing the bug because it wasn't worth it. But I ain't broke. It's like, it reminds me of those like home renovation shows where they come in and they just paint one side of the fence because that's where the cameras are going to be pointed and no one's going to look at the back of the fence. So why bother painting it, even though they probably should? It just, it seems. It's like slapping some duct tape on it. Yeah.

Yes. This is a story told by Kent Mitchell. He does not name the specific missile. He does not name the specific company he was working for. But apparently they did not care about memory leaks because sooner or later it was going to blow up. We go to our guests for some of the questions in each episode. As ever, I don't know the questions. I definitely don't know the answers.

And we start with Brian. What have you got for us? In the reception area of the Australian Red Cross, there is a set of eight electronic thermometer type displays that are regularly updated. The displays are labelled with two or three symbols from a selection of five. What motivation do they provide? I'll give that to you again. In the reception area of the Australian Red Cross, there is a set of eight electronic thermometer type displays that are regularly updated. The displays are labeled with two or three symbols from a selection of five. What motivation do they provide? All right, well, there's two Australians in this show.

I'm glad I'm not the only Australian because I try to even decipher that question. And my husband's off mouthing something to me and I can't work out what he's saying either. Are you getting help from outside here? Sarah and I, we obviously, they teach this in Australian schools. We know we're just obviously just letting you have a chance because it's so obvious to us as australians right sarah yeah oh god uh weirdly i think i i think i'm gonna let you two take this because i think i know what this is and i'll explain why i know what this is um later okay so i'm sorry to pass this one off there's eight displays and they look like thermometers type displays but they're not thermometers and they

show two of five symbols is that right two or three symbols of five of five yeah and thermometer type meaning they're just a level that can go up or down oh i see okay so it's not just showing the symbol it's showing the symbol at a specific level. Is that right? Right. But nothing to do with temperature then? It's actually... It's not to do with temperature. So I know the Australian Red Cross, I know they do a lot

of different types of campaigns. And so it could be just eight different campaigns, you know, that they are sort of focusing on. But it's, yeah, I mean, I went straight to bushfires and the bushfire, like the bushfire, you know, what is it called, Sarah? You know, whether you can light a fire or not. Yeah, I was, when, but see, that's where I got stuck on the heat thing.

That's why my thought was temperature. And I was picturing the signs that when you go through the rural areas, the fire danger signs, and it has the sign on there that is like low fire rating to high fire rating. That's exactly what I pictured. And I feel like that's not the right direction for the question. But that's what I pictured initially. But it's also not Red Cross related.

That feels like a completely wrong direction. Well, they do bushfire relief things, but I still, yeah, I think you're right there. It's meant to motivate people coming in. So it's either meant to motivate, I imagine it's to motivate, maybe to motivate people to donate money. People come in and they say, wow, like all good visualizations, rather than just seeing the raw data, you see a picture of something or you see a representation of it. It really makes you think and dig into your pocket and give money that's that's what i think of when i think of you know a charity and motivation um could be motivating stuff that's what you'd expect from that sort of totalizer display as well sort of this is yeah a thermometer

that's not showing temperature yeah i i hope i'm right with this i'm gonna look i'm gonna look terrible if i've gone oh i think i know this know this. And it turns out that... Is it money? Is it related to money? Yeah. The thermometer display makes sense for a fundraising thing. That would make sense for that reference as opposed to just another reference. Like you think about the money counter, they use a thermometer. So the fundraising reference matches up with Red Cross. It's not to do with money. Okay. So the fundraising reference, that matches up with Red Cross. It's not to do with money. There's measuring things in some way, like a thermometer would.

I mean, I don't know. Yeah, the number of people they've helped, the number of places they've been. I'm getting smiles from across the room. He's not giving me any hints, but he's just smiling at me, so he obviously knows the answer. I will say three of the five symbols are letters. Yeah, so three of them are letters. The other two, I mean, punctuation marks, dollar signs, percentages.

I'm just looking at my keyboard now. two or three from a selection of five and am i right in saying that these are these are like thermometers that can they don't measure temperature but they can go up or down depending on some things going on in the wider world and how correct so i'd say think about think about eight things that are represented by symbols that can go up and down. Eight things. Are we talking states? Are we talking... I feel like I'm just embarrassing all of the Australians right now. It's not specifically Australianralian right this is all right yeah this is just this is an issue that affects every country in the world not just specifically australia but it's something the australian red cross does yeah i mean i i go straight to climate change obviously when i think

of things that affect everyone and things that red cross would actually be, you know, like the effects of climate change. That's where I go straight away. I mean, the thing, the problem is that now when I think about the combination of letters, I suddenly realise, oh wait, it could be measuring a huge number of, you know, huge number of different combinations of letters can be coming in and that can be changing the things being measured. Nicholas, you said, was it about donating money? And Brian very carefully replied that it wasn't about money. Ooh. Okay.

Is it about donating? Is it like how many blankets and how many things, you know, like physical objects have been donated perhaps? The other two symbols are mathematical signs. Oh, so this is like algebra now. You might be looking at a percentage sign. No. Just like a plus and minus.

Plus or a minus. A plus or a minus. Oh. Blood. It's blood donations. Blood donations. Oh, that's why Shane's looking at me so obviously. Of course. Donations. Oh, that's why Shane's looking at me so obviously.

Of course. He's like, of course, of course. So the eight thermometers show the eight major blood groups and the current level and encouraging people to donate when they're starting to get low. And the only reason I knew that one was because literally yesterday i was doing research into blood groups and that's the sole reason as soon as he went symbols and eight groups and thought oh it's gonna be blood donations well i'm gonna shut up here and let you guys sort it like that's one like um because shane does regular blood donations and i don't so he's's here like, that's so obvious. And I'm here like not familiar with that.

So you and I have really been punished here for our lack of civic duty, the fact that we haven't donated blood recently. I'm not ashamed if I do a blood donation. I've got terrible veins. Yeah. So really the message here is donate blood, otherwise you'll embarrass yourself on a podcast. Yeah, that's it. Donate blood to win it lateral.

To win it lateral. So, yeah, there is eight thermometers displayed in the Australian Red Cross that show the current levels of the eight major blood types in their supply. Next question's from me. According to legend, in the Middle Ages, people often signed various papers and documents using a symbol and a certain action. This tradition partly lives on today. What was that symbol and action? So one more time. According to legend, in the Middle Ages, people often signed various papers and documents using a symbol and action? So one more time, according to legend, in the Middle Ages, people

often signed various papers and documents using a symbol and a certain action. That tradition partly lives on today. What was that symbol and action? So I'm just going to say this early on, that according to legend is in there, because I will get emails, because this is a lovely story, because I will get emails because this is a lovely story, but the sourcing is somewhat dubious. So it's one of those things that gets repeated. I was like, oh yeah, that's where that's... Yeah, okay, don't email me.

I do not need pedantry on this one. I use that just in all conversation. Anytime I'm uncertain, it's like, did you feed the dog according to legend i may have fed the dog that's right that's how i start every video just in case anyone says i'm wrong i said it was according to legend it's just a story that's true brian two of us have to deal with pedantry on a regular basis and and two of the people on this show do not you one one deals with art and the other

can just claim it was part of the plan all along i got i got a a letter in the post to my father's house correcting a video before to my father's house so what i have the opposite problem i have the problem of when i make a statement, everyone comes at me and says, there is no wrong way to do art. Don't tell people what to do. So my problem is the opposite. I had that when I was doing stuff about linguistics, because it's drilled into you from like the very first day you study linguistics, that there is no correct way to speak. As a linguist, you describe, you don't But also, there are things such as standard academic English and that can technically have rules that you should have to follow. And there's always a bit of a... I can't think of the word. It's literally my job to do this. I can't think of the word for

two things that conflict with each other. Contradiction? That'll do thank you it's like it can't be that that's too obvious you can see that played out in real life on the and the twitter account for the ap style book where they every few days will say what their particular convention that they follow and people who follow the conventions of the AP style book. And it's filled with people saying, don't you force your pedantry, political correctness, going mad, wokeism, whatever it is down our throats. You know, there's no right way. And it's like, yes, but you're going to use the style book. Then there is a right way. Yes, but we don't put a capital I on internet these days. That's just not what we do. You're welcome to.

That's not what we do. That's the one that stuck in my head. I think it was the Guardian's sterile guide a few years ago that made the decision that no, World Wide Web and internet are now lowercase all the way through. There was some point where it changed from being a thing that was important to just a utility we all talk about and they said it was like putting a cap uh on electricity from a proper noun to just another noun none of that has any relation to the middle ages and people are using a symbol internet in

the middle ages that's just four people unloading their various frustrations about people with internet comments so yeah i'm hung up on the word action uh yes they say i get so they i can see them so this is this is signing things on paper um and then they can i understand that there's a symbol or a letter or something but then they perform an action after. Was it the wax seal? Was that the action? Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Or a wax seal or even so far as like using like a signet ring or something to seal, like using some kind of ring as their seal because people would have different designs on different rings

so that becomes like their, I don't know if that's even a thing. It just feels like it should be. Oh, yeah. This is very much a question that feels like it should be. And it's not quite the right lines, but you're certainly thinking the right era and the right stuff that's going on. So if someone, okay, so this is, maybe I'm drawing a long bow here, but if you're signing something and it's probably like a legal document, it has the feel of a legal document. It might be an agreement or, you know, or it's essentially you want to commit that this is true. And so is it they would write their name and then they would as a sort of like signing on the Bible type thing, they would cross themselves. Like, you know, like the, you know,

religious action of crossing yourself. And then that turned into people signing things with a cross, you know, like when you sign with an X and that's the thing that's still around today. That's my, that's my very long bow. You have fired the very long bow and it has not quite hit the target but the target is very scared uh you have got some of the right words but not necessarily in the right order

okay thinking about this kind of real strong oath thing i'm then leaning into like a blood oath like what if do people do people like instead of ink use their blood and like do a thumbprint with their blood or something to sign something called force. This this was this was ink. You actually said part of the right answer in what you were saying, Nicholas. So people weren't writing their name here. In fact, the reason they'd sign like this is because they couldn't write their name. reason they'd sign like this is because they couldn't write their name is is it just people would sign with a cross you know sign with a cross because they couldn't write their name and so they would just write across that's the symbol so what's the action that goes with it

so not crossing themselves oh brian brian you you got it you got a face there you you you you went oh i'm gonna do this and then then kind of backed out. No, I'm just confused. Like an action, is the action like something that they're not doing on the piece of paper? Like they're doing like, they're like crossing, doing the, I don't know what that's called. I don't know, people can't see what I'm doing. It's a sign of sincerity. Do they kiss it? Yes, they do. That is the right answer.

yes they do that is the right answer they sign with a cross they kiss that cross as a sign of sincerity and that is according to legend where we get the idea of sealed with a kiss and where we get the cross meaning kiss oh that's lovely interesting. My daughter just wrote a letter to our local member because she's five and she's at that age of realizing that there are, you know, bad things in the world like, you know, people not having enough to eat. And so she wrote a letter to our local politician, our local member, and wrote it on this beautiful pink handwriting, you know, handwriting set she had for Christmas saying, can you please do something about poor people and the homeless situation

and this whole long letter. And then went and got my wife's lipstick and put it on and put a big, proper kiss on this very serious letter and sent it off in the mail. It was scented paper as well. So there was real mixed messages there. It got a great reaction. I was going to say, has she got a reply yet? Yeah, we got invited to go and meet the local member

and post the photos. She got to talk about the issues and, you know, the picture was there and it was very, so if you want to get the attention of your local politicians, it doesn't hurt to make that a little extra effort. Send the letter and seal it with a kiss. Yes, according to legend, letters were signed with a cross and then kissed for sincerity, which is where we now get the cross for kisses from. Our next question comes from Sarah. Take it away.

So this listener question has been sent in by Adrian Miguel. So in rural parts of the US, some people cause whimsical mischief by walking around the town armed with circular red stickers. How? So the question again, in rural parts of the US, some people cause whimsical mischief by walking around the town armed with circular red stickers. How? The first thing that comes to my head with whimsical mischief and stickers is a gag from a TV show called Dick and Dom in the Bungalow, which was a kids' breakfast show in the UK,

which I'm guessing no one here has heard of. It was on when I was a student, so if I was awake that early, it's the sort of thing a student would turn on a Saturday morning. They had a bit of schtick where they had increasingly large stickers of each other's faces, the two presenters, and would have to go around the town, interview people, get shots, and then subtly put the sticker on other people's backs without them noticing. So, by several things in, you would just have shots of people walking away from the interview

with a giant sticker of someone's face on their back. I don't think it's that. I just thought I'd tell that story because it still amuses me years later. It's exactly that kind of whimsical harmless prank that I'm imagining this is the sort of thing that it's about. You said they're just circular red stickers.

Yes. And are they solid red stickers or are they like like a circle with it there's nothing on the no they're just it's a red circle okay all right what can you use a red sticker on to cause whimsical mischief in a rural american town i can i can think of plots of mischief but none of it whimsical mostly malicious or political like a little bit yeah i think of googly eyes when when you mention that type of thing you know people who just like don't stick googly eyes on things oh yeah i've got a friend who has an

enormous sack of googly eyes enormous sack it sounds like his bloody santa claus he's got a big plastic bag that's like, he's got a half kilo of googly eyes and they just keep ending up in places. Yeah, I'm imagining they're just going around sticking it on posters of politicians or something.

I don't know if they do that in the US. I don't know. In the UK and Ireland, we put up the massive poster boards of the politicians when they're getting elected. I could imagine. Oh yeah, and someone will draw a moustache on them.

Yeah. If they're playing red stickers, I would imagine that they're trying to cover something or they're trying to sort of add to something that is already red. You know, like so changing stop sign to yeah i was thinking stop signs something like that to stop sign or something are they covering up like one letter in something maybe or they're blocking out one thing but a circle what would you use a circle for do you know are they um grammar pedants and they're going around like covering, there's a particular sign that's everywhere that misuses a comma or an apostrophe and they're just going around and covering the incorrect punctuation?

I'm trying to think American road signs. Like I can think of the speed limit sign or the, but it's only like the stop sign that's red, isn't it? The rest of them are all yellow. Is the fact, I mean, obviously, so it needs to be a small place. Is the fact that it's only like the stop sign that's red, isn't it? The rest of them are all yellow. Is the fact, I mean, obviously, so it needs to be a small place. Is the fact that it's rural, you mentioned rural, I think, in the clue, is it something rural? Is it putting them on cows?

Yeah, so rural parts of the US is a big part of the description there. That's a big clue. They're making cows into Rudolph at Christmas. They're slapping it on its nose. Actually, Brian's kind of heading in the right direction with what he's just sort of said. Are we on farm animals? Are we in the right area with farm animals?

You are on the right direction with the whimsical side of it. I'll give you that much. Are they clown noses? Are they turning certain pictures into clown noses, putting on people? Well, you're in the right season as well. Oh, okay. So it's something to do with Christmas.

They're putting it on like truck lights or something to make the lights red. So you did mention before Rudolph, which Rudolph, you were correct, that they are turning something into Rudolph. So leaning into that, there is something that they are putting stickers on that they are turning into Rudolph, but we're looking more towards something that is city property. So it's something maybe that looks like antlers and then they put a red nose on it and it looks like Rudolph. I'm trying to think what you'd run across in a rural Texan town that you could turn into looking like Rudolph other than a cow.

Oh, is it? Tumbleweed. You know, like tumbleweed, you know, put a nose on it. It looks a bit like Rudolph. When I saw the picture of this, I actually, this reminded me of something in Australia a lot more, Nicholas, that I see a lot in rural towns, but for a very Aussie thing, but this is like the American version of it. So if there was an Australian thing that's very iconic inia that we see that we think is like iconic to australia that's only in rural towns that is city property the american version of this that you could quickly turn into rudolph with a red sticker i don't know that's probably just made it so much harder

a water tower i was thinking water, and I don't know why. Water tower wouldn't look like Rudolph if you put a red sticker on it, though. Something with antennas. So a broadcast tower? No, that's not a... You could do that anywhere. As much as we're thinking laterally, right now we can think a lot more literally. What, if it had a red nose, would look like Rudolph?

A horse. On a sign. That's less helpful. Oh, is it the sign for like deer crossing? Yes. That is, it is. Oh, we started on road signs. I couldn't think of the damn.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. You know what would look a lot like a deer? A deer. It felt like it was so close that we weren't going to get there. That was an open goal that we didn't so much miss as just completely ignore. Just walk straight past it. Oh, I feel like, yeah.

No, so in the run-up to Christmas, some people would add red circles to the deer crossing signs, which ironically look exactly like the kangaroo signs that we see here in Australia. That's the iconic Australian thing. Yes. So they make them look like Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer. One reported instance of this happening was in Limestone County, Athens, in Alabama in 2014. Next one's from me.

In 2000, soccer player Lee Todd was standing just in front of the referee. Once the referee started the match, Todd managed to break a football record just two seconds later. How? I'll say that again. In 2000, soccer player Lee Todd was standing just in front of the referee. Once the referee started the match, Todd managed to break a football record just two seconds later. How? I am glad that we don't have any Americans on here because right now they'll be asking me about the rules of soccer. And I feel like, I feel like between us, we probably have at least a decent grasp of how it works well I was about to ask do we need to know much about soccer but I guess the first the first thing to clarify is we know which soccer we're talking about so that's at least okay yeah the question deliberately

said soccer and football just to cover all bases there. Ironically, because that's baseball, but never mind. I'm feeling I might know the answer for this a little bit, but I'm not sure. I don't know a whole lot, but I feel like the record part might be a bit too obvious of what he did, and I'm just guessing, but that's not the question. It's like, how did he do it? So, I but i don't that's not the question is like how

did he do it so i mean if you want to solve the first bit of that go for it you don't know the answer i'm thinking i'm just thinking like it could be one or two things it's like he scored a goal or he got sent off it is one of those two things i mentioned my i went the quickest to be red carded like that's what, that's what I went with. Yeah. Yeah. You've got that right away. It's a time related thing.

If it happened in two seconds, it has to be a quick record. Yeah. So you've got the first bit. Lee Todd was sent off after two seconds of the match. So what happened? He was standing in front of the referee. So I'm guessing he did something to the referee.

This is my, this is my creative answer. He, they, they did the coin flip the coins on the ground. They both went to pick up the coin at the same time and he accidentally head butted the referee and got sent off. Oh, it's lovely, but that would be a minus on the timer this is two seconds into the match oh I see okay in my head I'm just envisioning him like the game just starts

and he just kicks the ball as hard as he can directly at the referee's head and the referee just got annoyed and sent him off or something yeah I don't know what kind of level of violence against a referee is acceptable when you get kicked off the field. I think even sort of arguing too much with the referee,

if you really push it, can get you yellow carded or red carded. There's a specific bit of conduct here. So it wasn't assault? Did he give him the finger? Hmm, not quite, but you're in the right area. Did he just swear at him? Did he give him the finger not quite but you're in the right area did he just swear at him did he insult him say something rude to the ref um as the game was starting yeah you're piecing together most of it but in two seconds what happened is it family friendly that sarah that is a very good question i will say that I'm being very cautious

about how I'm going to read out the answer here. There might have to be a little bit of edit work done. Was their clothing removed? I pantsed them. Oh, wow. To be clear, the sequence of events in that would have been referee blows whistle, and one of the guys just turns around and pants the referee at that moment.

Like, I love it as an image. It's not quite what happened. It wasn't even really deliberate in that way. I'm trying to think laterally. I mean, you're right that it was rude. Okay. I'm trying to think of what soccer players would do to a referee I mean, you're right that it was rude. Okay. Trying to think of what soccer players would do to a referee that would appear harmless, but probably fairly insulting.

It wasn't even really to the referee. So was it to another player? It was more just to the world. In football, you can get sent off for taking your shirt off. You can get sent off for a lot of things. I'm not sure if soccer has ungentlemanly conduct but it's it's that sort of rule like give the finger to the opposing uh team you're so close with the the offense and the swearing and everything like that did he moon the other team's audience? I don't know why I keep on going to that.

It is being sent off for being offensive. So why might that happen just immediately after the referee blows the whistle? Did he start dancing? He is standing very, very close. He's standing within punching distance to the referee. He punched the referee because the whistle was too loud. Oh, you're nearly there. It was that the whistle was incredibly loud

and he was standing right next to it. So what did he do to get himself sent off immediately? Did they pull the whistle out of his mouth? You know what? I think you've got close enough. And I think the thing you don't know here that you need to know is that ungentlemanly conduct, unsportsmanlike conduct, that rule of football,

includes swearing on the pitch. Oh, so he just swore. He just swore about how loud it was. His exact words were, f*** me, that was loud. At which point, the referee blows his whistle again and sends him off for ungentlemanly conduct or unsportsmanlike conduct. That is two seconds where he's immediately red carded and off just for being shocked that someone

just blew a very loud whistle in his ear that's so so the response to him complaining about the loudness of the whistle was for the ref to blow the whistle a second time. Yes, it was. Last guest question of the show then comes from Nicholas. What have you got for us? I have a question for you that I've written myself. It is one of my favourite stories. In 2015,

officials from San Francisco's Public Utilities Commission confirmed that dogs had caused a car to be destroyed, nearly killing its owner. How? I'll repeat the question. In 2015, officials from San Francisco's Public Utilities Commission confirmed that dogs had caused a car to be destroyed, nearly killing its owner. How? I'm just wondering why the Utilities Commission was reporting it. Yeah. Yeah. And how, and it's phrased carefully, like dogs caused the car to be destroyed.

Not crashed, to be destroyed. Just a lot of dogs peeing on the wheel and eventually just corroded the car entirely. Well, was the car driving then? Or are they, like, living in the car? Because it didn't say the car was moving when it was destroyed. But it nearly killed the driver. Oh, it called him a driver, did it?

Did it use the word driver or owner? Was it driver or owner there? It's owner. Wait, the owner of the dogs or the owner of the car? Or were those the same thing? The owner of the car. Okay.

So if this was like wild animals, I'd be thinking that they were nesting in there and that they, you know, clogged up an exhaust thing and... Because if this is San Francisco, then frankly, there's a fair chance that the owner of the car was sleeping in the car. And I would say that like wild animals clogged up the exhaust pipe

and nearly sent fumes back into the... But that doesn't seem like something that dogs would do. I can say that the dogs caused the car to be destroyed, but they didn't touch the car themselves. Maybe, okay, so maybe we're talking about a homeless person and it's not the dogs that destroyed the car. Maybe the city destroyed the car, not the dogs that destroyed the car maybe the city destroyed the car but the dogs drew attention to the car by barking and causing a scene and therefore getting the person found out

and the city found out they were living in the car and therefore got the car removed but didn't realize there was a person living in it. Maybe the car was abandoned and the city didn't realise that, or the utilities or whatever, didn't realise there was someone living in the car when they went to remove it. I don't know. It could have been any car, really. Yeah, the owner of who the car would belong to or the owner isn't that

relevant because it's a utilities company and you're saying that the dogs didn't touch the care i'm imagining the dogs like caused a like they chewed through a light post or something and the light post like fell on the car or something oh that's. So that's pretty much the right answer, but they didn't chew through it. I think Tom might've actually given the other half earlier. Wait, did they corrode? Did enough dogs pee on the light post that it corroded it and then fell on top of a car?

That's right. Yep. Dog urine accelerated the corrosion of the metal base of the street lamp and the pole fell onto the car, narrowly missing the driver. And it's happened in other countries. I believe it happened in Japan as well. And it's a common issue in countries that have specific types of metal at the base of the street lamps.

I don't know why I went to chewing on a wooden lamppost instead of like a horse dog's pee on a lamppost. Beaver style. Between us, we got that one. I think we both get half credit for that one, Brian. Yeah. So dog urine accelerated the corrosion of the metal base of the street lamp

and the pole fell over onto a car, narrowly missing the driver. At the start of the show, I asked the audience in which films and credits are four specific letters printed in a different typeface throughout. Does anyone want to take a punt at this before I give the answer? I mean, I'll be honest, I barely remember this film. It's 1997 science fiction. Yeah, I was going to like something like Loki, where the actual title is in all different fonts. Oh, Gattaca. Is it Gattaca? Gattaca. Yes, it is.

G-A-T-N-C, yeah. Yep. It is about DNA resequencing and cases based on genetics, I think if I remember vaguely. And so those four letters, ATGC, the four bases of DNA are in a different font throughout the credits. Congratulations to all of you. Thank you very much for being part of all this.

Let's see, where can people find you? What are you up to right now? We'll start with Nicholas. I've just relaunched my podcast, Scamapalooza, where I talk to psychologists and authors and con artists and magicians about why people get deceived. You can find it wherever you get podcasts.

Sarah. So you can find me, Sarah Renee Clark, on pretty much everywhere on my website, especially on YouTube. And Brian. You can find me on YouTube too, at Real Engineering, uploading twice a month,

and I won't turn this into a Nebula ad read. Thank you very much. That is our show for today. If you'd like to know more about what we do, then you can go to lateralcast.com. There are video highlights at youtube.com slash lateralcast, and you can find us at lateralcast

pretty much everywhere. With that, thank you very much. It's goodbye from Brian. Bye-bye. From Sarah. See ya. And from Nicholas. See you later.

I've been Tom Scott and this has been Lateral.