Lateral with Tom Scott - 47: Apples for General Lee?

Episode Date: September 1, 2023

Caroline Roper, Ella Hubber and Tom Lum from 'Let's Learn Everything' face questions about condiment condition, reverse roaming and strobing satellites. LATERAL is a comedy panel game podcast about weird questions with wonderful answers, hosted by Tom Scott. For business enquiries, contestant appearances or question submissions, visit https://www.lateralcast.com. HOST: Tom Scott. QUESTION PRODUCER: David Bodycombe. RECORDED AT: The Podcast Studios, Dublin. EDITED BY: Julie Hassett. MUSIC: Karl-Ola Kjellholm ('Private Detective'/'Agrumes', courtesy of epidemicsound.com). ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS: Vasco Casimiro. FORMAT: Pad 26 Limited/Labyrinth Games Ltd. EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS: David Bodycombe and Tom Scott. © Pad 26 Limited (https://www.pad26.com) / Labyrinth Games Ltd. 2023. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Lightning strikes and the moon lights up briefly. What 1998 film are you watching? The answer to that at the end of the show. My name's Tom Scott and this is Lateral. Returning to the show, we have three guests all from the podcast Let's Learn Everything. And I really hope they have learned everything because I can guarantee that some of everything is coming up in the questions today. It was beautiful chaos last time.

So to plug the podcast this time, let's go to Ella. First, tell us about the show. We are the three co-hosts of Let's Learn Everything. It is mostly a science podcast where we cover a big main science topic and we ask a little science question, but we also cover miscellaneous stuff. And we just have a real good old fun time of it. Yeah, what was the phrase you just used, Tom?

We gotta put that on the... That's real good. Beautiful chaos. Beautiful chaos, I think is what I said. And on that note, having not been introduced yet, Tomlum! Hello, hello! How was it last time on the show? This is your second episode, how are you feeling? Feeling good. I feel good to rely on my co-hosts, who are all very smart.

I feel like I gotta really push through this time. I feel like Ella really carried us, I gotta show... I did carry you guys. I gotta really push through this time. I feel like Ella really carried us. I gotta show... I did carry you guys. Ella's not feeling competitive at all. This has happened twice recently, where someone has accidentally set themselves up as the villain of the episode. We're teaming up against Ella, right?

We're gonna do... It's good. This is good for the episode. We'll do one take. The first one is cooperative, and this one is competitive. And the last one of the trio, Caroline Roper. Hello!

Woo! Woo! The least competitive of the three. How did you find it last time? I had a lovely time. I really enjoyed watching Ella answer all of the questions. So I feel like this one, I've got to really step it up, you know? I liked that too, Caroline.

For those of you listening for the first time, lateral is like trying to solve a Rubik's Cube while riding a unicycle on a tightrope. But that makes it sound way too easy. So I'm going to start you off with the first question, which is, why might a certain type of musician need a cup of rice every few years i'll say that again why might a certain type of musician need a cup of rice every few years oh okay i i'm gonna stay quiet for a second i would i mean if it's rice based then you i have to assume it's something to do with i mean they're not eating it every few years that would be a terrible diet right that would be stupid who every few years that would be a terrible diet right that would be stupid who would think that that would be ridiculous if someone if if

one of your co-hosts thought that oh oh you sweet sweet thing tom every every every classically trained soprano knows you gotta every few years have one bowl of rice you're only allowed one cup of rice yeah caroline yeah i will say also quickly tom i have um solved a rubik's cube on the unicycle once not on a tightrope this is harder are they replacing an element of their musical instrument no they're not no i i was gonna say as someone who's dropped my phone in many bodies of water including the toilet i know the effectiveness of rice to draw out the water and i know moisture is very important for like guitars and stuff like that like you have to have like proper humidity for like the wood so my brain goes to that but also what's interesting

is like every few years and it's also only one cup of rice i feel like if you're trying to dry out a large musical instrument yeah fill up the entire guitar with yeah is it to do with retuning or retightening an instrument or something i'm thinking about like how rice might rattle on a drum if it's not tightened properly. Is it that I would have thought it was something that you blow into like a woodwind instrument because all your saliva is getting into the instrument. Oh, that's a lovely thing to think about.

Lots of brass instruments do have a spit valve, which I also, that is contentious apparently. A lot of people like to be like, it's a condensation valve uh but it's also it's a spit valve we have a piece of equipment at work small tangent where you uh like blow into a tube and then corn flour comes out of the top and you set it on fire and it makes like a cool And we recently cleaned out the tube. Oh, no. Yeah, I don't... It was so bad. I don't think Rice could have saved it, to be honest.

You're almost along the right lines there. Although I will say, why are you blowing into it? Like, use a bellows. You think museums in London are going to provide us that sort of equipment? No! OK, you make a good point. I've seen that done with some explosive powder once, and it's like, yeah, it's not gonna get into your mouth, we're gonna use a bellows, but... OK, fine, cornflour, you can... Museum employees. You can do what you want with them!

Museum employees, graduate students, they're all kind of the more disposable parts of academia. I have heard a professor say that once. I forget what testing it was, but he's like, yeah, we use graduate students, they're mostly disposable. I'm like, I don't think you should have said that on camera, but it's going in the final video. So did we establish what instrument it was or would that give too much away? Honestly, you've said most of the words that are in the answer.

We've also said a lot of words. I mean, that is true. It was the cornflower bellows. Cornflower fire instrument. The. The. The? Is the in there? A. Rice. Huh. Every the in there? Uh-huh. A? Rice.

Huh. Every few years, a cup of rice. Is it for drying out? That's my main thing for that. Rattling is a thing that... Not every few years. But it's something that accumulates dust and dirt and mildew a bit more slower than a wind instrument with a spit valve would.

Oh, so are you putting the rice into the instrument and shaking it to knock dirt out? Ooh, sort of like how you clean stuff with salt, like an abrasive, maybe? Wait, you know how I took the mickey out of Tom earlier for saying that you put it into a guitar or something? Is it along those lines? It's exactly along those lines, yes.

You put rice in the guitar? It's an old-fashioned way to clean a guitar. You put rice into the sound hole, you tape it up, you spend a long time shaking it round, and it will just scrape and scratch every little bit of that wood. Not enough to damage it, enough to take off the little bits of dust and mildew that you can't easily get out. That's kind of clever.

I will say, you know, it's an absolute nightmare getting all that rice out, though. You know, you're rattling for the next couple of weeks. Boy, howdy. If you've ever lost a pick in a guitar, you know that this is not. As always, each of our guests has brought a question along too. So this time we're going to start with Tom. Whenever you're ready. All right.

This next one is a listener submitted question. Outside the historic university chapel in Lexington, Virginia, a gravestone inscribed General Robert E. Lee often has apples placed around it. Why? I'll read that again. Outside the historic University Chapel in Lexington, Virginia, a gravestone inscribed, General Robert E. Lee often has apples placed around it.

Why? Is, okay, is he thought to be a ghost, but he was also a doctor in real life, so an apple a day keeps the doctor away. Yes, I love it. I wondered where you were going with that. It's funny you're asking this to the three British people

who have like... General Lee is quite a famous if I'm like... Yeah, his name. Civil War guy. I think he's the Confederate leader. I think he's one of the Confederate leaders. So the losers in the Civil War. The losers.

So he's Virginia. Is Virginia one of the states that was the bad states? The losers? Oh, wow. Okay, we've got three Brits trying to tiptoe around everything to do with the American Civil War. Even worse than that, Tom, even worse than that, Tom,

you have an American who is totally okay with telling you guys wrong information because it would be funny. Virginia is actually, it's one of the last states, it's be funny. Virginia is actually, it's one of the last states. It's near Alaska. Virginia, if I remember, was one of the original colonies. So it's northeast.

I don't know actually which side it was on in the Civil War. Not super relevant. Okay. Yeah, I think that might be one of the, I could be wrong, but that's also part of the reason why there is like the West Virginia difference

is because it was like along that line. So it is sort of like on the border between the hard north and hard south but that is not super relevant to this okay because i was wondering if it was like if he was if he was a one of the bad guys and then and then but he was buried in the rock like a different state then it would be like a warding off evil thing you know yeah An apple a day keeps Robert E. Lee away. He really liked apples. Is it some weird sign of respect for him?

Sign of disrespect. It is a sign of respect. Oh, I love this. This is a great question. Because Robert E. Lee is not getting much respect, to be honest. No! Probably shouldn't be. So why are they leaving apples? Wait a minute.

You said in the question, did you say it was his grave? Or did you say it was a gravestone with his name on it? Very interesting question, Tom. Okay. I did say a gravestone inscribed General Robert E. Lee often has

apples placed around it. It wasn't his gravestone, it was Robert E. Lee often has apples placed around it. It wasn't his gravestone. It was someone else's. Or it's just celebrating the fact that he died. Or is it just part of him? Like hand? No, okay. It's not his gravestone.

It's someone else's. Correct. Is he actually buried under an apple tree and then sometimes people bring him apples that's interesting from the tree no no no i would focus a bit more on the thinking about the apples who if it's a sign of respect who would love an apple as a sign of respect? Horse. It's his horse. Got it.

Oh my goodness. The Grave says, Traveler, horse of General Robert E. Lee, leave apples as an offering to Traveler, which is sweet. Oh my goodness. That's okay. That's okay.

You can offer apples to his horse. Yeah. That's nice. We're not respecting him we're respecting his there wasn't there there are some notes here and it says so it says the confederate general robert e lee bought his horse traveler in 1861 and many paintings and statues depict them both together after his skeleton was put on display for many decades traveler was buried in 1971 outside the family chapel where Lee himself is buried.

Visitors leave offerings such as apples and carrots for the horse. Wait, wait. General Lee's skeleton was on display or Traveler's skeleton was on display. No, the horse. Marginally better, but still. Because that reference

could have gone a couple places there. There's a little garden path there. Yeah. I don't know. I feel like the horse deserves more respect than that. This is also a sweet note. The brick stable built for Traveller in 1869 still stands, and by tradition, the doors are left open so that Traveller's spirit can roam freely.

Aww. Pick up those apples. That's so nice. Quite sweet. All right, next one's from me. Good luck. Colette adores playing a particular table game at her beloved Paris casino. If she went to a different casino in Paris and betted the same way, her losses would only be half as bad over the long term.

Even so, her decision to play at the first casino is financially rational. Why? And one more time, Colette adores playing a particular table game at her beloved Paris casino. If she went to a different casino in Paris and betted the same way, her losses would be only half as bad over the long term. Even so, her decision to play at the first casino is financially rational. Why? If this is a probability-based question, I'm signing out.

I don't do maths, and I won't do it for you. It's my time to shine! All right, so let's get some tea distributions up, baby. Let's do this. So it's one casino in Paris, because you said if she went to another one, a different one, still in Paris, it would be different. So it's just the one.

I was worried it might be like a currency thing. It still might be like a currency thing uh it still still might be but um it's a table game for odds there's and there's two parts to it because one is that her odds would be better but the other is that it's still financially sound to do this part of me wonders at the last half if it's like her casino and she's trying to be like oh guys it's great i'm having a great time actually it's super cool that I lose a lot of money and then the question does say financially rational by gambling standards

if you're going to gamble if you're going to accept that house edge then the losses will only be half as bad at the other casino half is a lot but the wins will be more in the current casino then if it's financially is it that it's not necessarily that the wins would be like better where she currently is but she's less

likely to get like pickpocketed or something like that or like a tariff of some kind yeah that's interesting i don't know how hard the 50 number is like if we should be like mathing that out if it's like uh it's like the the person at the the roulette table is colorblind and so they can't tell which one is uh which also i don't know which if which table game matters okay oh wait wait wait wait can i can i huge shot in the dark yeah go for it like does the time period in Paris matter because part of me

wonders if like if like this is like a they play with a card with like without the king and the queen like to try to be oh that would be

so good wouldn't that be very cool they take them out and so maybe that affects the probability this is modern day they still they still don't play with the king and the queen in Paris.

Yeah, they still hold a shoulder of a bridge. Yeah, does the type of game matter? Very much so. There are two tricks to this question. Okay, so I don't know. Unlock one, you'll unlock the other easily. But there's a trick in the wording. So we got roulette, we got blackjack, we got poker.

I don't think it's cheating if we just list all of the possible games. Wait to see if Tom can hold a poker face or not. No, I can't. I really can't. I have played one poker game for money in my life, and it was in Vegas. And it was a big tournament. I got through to like the second round

of like five and it was purely because I didn't know what I was doing and played conservatively. Like I just didn't bet all that much. So all the people who were in like oh yeah, no, put a big bet down just went out early. And so I

got through to the second round where there were people who were actually good at poker and I lost very quickly. But I did it as a tournament because there's one buy-in that's all you can possibly lose. And probability is you'll lose it, but it's not like you can keep adding more money and keep losing or anything like that.

It's like, I'll take the hit. That's also really interesting, like the like skill and probability of of um of uh of those kind of gambling is very interesting we we did a topic on or a question about like games that computers can beat humans at and there are poker ais that can do statistically better than humans based on like things like rational thinking when other people are not and other things like that which is very interesting and imitating the the behaviors of like bluffing and stuff like that yeah apparently a lot of the like lower level players in online poker are bots now because it's good enough really that you can now have something not just send the commands but also fake up the mouse movements,

make it look like a human. And they don't win against professionals, but you don't need to. You just need a table with more suckers than you. That's wild. This question, however, is not about poker. Not about poker. It is roulette.

It is absolutely roulette. I think you kind of intuited that because you made a couple roulette references earlier on, despite not knowing the game. And yeah, it's roulette. My mind immediately went to roulette because it is a 50-50 odd game. Yeah.

Generally, right? If you do black or red. So there's two balls in this roulette wheel. There's three balls. You get to throw a handful of balls onto the roulette wheel. It's an honor system roulette game. You just gotta go like, hey, what's that?

Yeah, trust me. Yeah, I was thinking that. It's something different with the numbers, with the colours? There's like more numbers. Oh, there are fewer numbers? There are. There are fewer numbers on the other roulette wheel. And there's a reason for this.

And the reason is... And there's a trick in the question. So, I'm going to give you the question one more time here. Colette adores playing roulette at her beloved Paris casino. If she went to a different casino in Paris and betted the same way, her losses would be only half as bad. Why is she still going to that first Paris casino? There's less numbers at the one she plays on.

Which number gives the house its edge? What can't you bet on? 21? I don't know what... Oh, we got three people who've never played roulette. All right. Yeah.

That's what we're learning here, isn't it? I've never played roulette before. No, me neither. Know anything about it. Is it zero? Yeah. And on some tables, it's zero and zero, zero. They have two on there that the house wins all the time.

It is possible to bet on the zero, but it's excluded from like red and black and things like that. Oh, okay. It's a green number. Yeah. Gotcha, gotcha. Does she say something tricky? Like she just like muffles?

She's like... No, I said 00, actually. Oh, but there's something very tricky in that question. You said her beloved Paris Casino. Is that the name of the casino? That is the name of the casino. It is the Paris Casino in Las Vegas. With the replica of the Eiffel Tower.

And the difference is that American roulette wheels have the two zeros on them. Oh, God. That's so tricky. Yeah. I'm thinking back to that. That's the first thing I said. Tom, you are a liar. You have a great poker face

because you watched me walk straight into that point headfirst to be like, so it's two of them in Paris and establish that right away. The thing is, if I'd have said anything at that point, it would have given the whole game away. Yes. If she went to another casino in Paris,

yes, the house edge would be 2.7% instead of 5.26%, but she'd have to travel to Paris. And is that the financial difference? And that's the financial difference. Wow! She doesn't have to pay for a plane ticket. Oh my God. That is the most tricksy question we've had on here

in a long time. There's like three tricks in there! I feel like I should apologise for that one. We will go to Caroline for the next question. Over to you. Amazing. The humorous book Couplehood by Paul Reiser begins on page 145 and continues from there.

It's not a mistake. The author claims it's a win-win situation. How? I'll say it again. The humorous book, Couplehood, by Paul Reiser, begins on page 145 and continues from there. It's not a mistake. The author claims it's a win-win situation how what this makes me think of is the is it the idea that like you're starting this relationship midway through like like because i i always think about like um i think that there might have been a movie that did this where it's like you know, the whole rom-com does it until they actually are in a relationship, and then it just credits ends, but it's like, hey, what happens after that? So part of me is like, maybe this is implying that...

Yeah, like you skip the awkward start of the relationship. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And now you're starting again, starting a new thing. Is that not it, Caroline? No. I'm trying to think of any other books that have done weird page numbering things. I'm stuck on... No, that was...

Curious Instinct of the Dog in the Night Time was chapter numbers. There's, I'm sure, a couple of the Thursday Next books have done meta-textual stuff, but I can't think of anything that just starts at 145. One of my favorite stories that um uh a previous guest on the show cleo abrams uh cleo abram we had um i was i was doing a live with her and she was telling me a story of how she read the book snowpiercer i believe it's snowpiercer or maybe it was snow crash and those are two very different books. Was it about a train, or was it about a hacker? I think it was Snow Crash. And so she got a misprint, though, where the pages were out of order, but she thought that was part of the gimmick.

And so she was like, oh, I get it! It's like, oh, it's cool! I'm the hacker! I have to figure it out! It took her like 20 pages to do this, and I could not believe that she... Very good. Is it... There is nothing tricky happening in this book. 20 pages to do this, and I could not believe that. Very good. There is nothing tricky happening in this book. There are no blank pages or anything. After the introduction, the first page is number 145. Did he write it with his wife,

and they couldn't decide on where to start the book? They settled for the middle. What's the difference, Happy? Wait, is it the second book in the series and pages 1 to 144 are the previous book where it's not on couplehood, it's on trying to find a partner? Singlehood. Singlehood.

No, it's not anything like that. Is 145 a specific number? Oh yeah, is it meaningful is it yeah or uh no no it isn't it's just like a middle of the book because it feels like it's just like a middle of the book number because things i've written down in front of me i i've written 12 squared plus one and i've written a a d e because i've been translating it into letters or anything like that. No, okay, fine. It's an arbitrary number. Great.

Wonderful. Oh, so in Roman numerals, it doesn't say anything. Nope. Interesting. I hadn't done Roman numerals. Oh my God. I love your codex brain. That's so funny.

Is the number like meaningful in for love or relationships the number isn't meaningful there isn't a previous book starts in the middle of the book it's like the book is and the numbers go up right yeah they go up in a normal order from that it's a comedy book so i imagine or it sounds like it's a humorous book humorous book so i imagine it's going to be like um maybe it's like you throw away the first half because it's normally not very good it's like is it a metaphor about relationships it's not even that complicated it's just it's just a misprint no it's not a misprint did they want to to just like seem like they had a lot of more pages than they thought?

Oh, wait, Tom, say that again. They just wanted to make the page, make it seem like it was like a 300 page book when it was actually like 150 pages. They got commissioned to write a longer book and they, but they didn't produce it. So they had to lie and say that it had more. It wasn't necessarily for such nefariousious reasons did they want it to end on page 420 or something funny so it could be so it could be sold as like a novel and not like a short

story or something it's so the author can claim uh to have written a longer book it is a win-win situation though so yeah that's interesting the reader could benefit from this they can say they've read a longer book like that's it pretty much just to make the book seem like more erudite that you're like reading and you're halfway through like oh they're on page like 264 literally that's what it is so riser claims that the reader can start reading for two minutes and truthfully say i'm on 151 and it's really flying it just sails baby oh my god he continued on to say you'll feel like you're accomplishing something and i get credit for writing a bigger book everybody wins and it costs us nothing

dang it i'm also surprised people haven't done that before that's a great idea next one's from me good luck folks seamus nathan win is a tour guide working in Virginia. Interviewed in 2015, he says that on a typical day, he walks about five miles backwards. Why? One more time. Seamus Nathan Wynne is a tour guide working in Virginia. Interviewed in 2015, he says that on a typical day, he walks about five miles backwards. Why? Facing the crowd.

Yeah, surely. You just walk backwards when you? Facing the crowd. Yeah, surely. You just walk backwards when you're talking to the... If that's not it, I'm going to be really angry. Well, yes, he has to face the crowd, but tour guides don't usually have to do that all the time. Like, for five miles? Like, you'd turn around, you'd have the crowd follow you, you'd go to the next spot.

No, this is continuous. He is always walking backwards during his tours. Now, Tom, is this actually Virginia or is this the Virginia Casino in Las Vegas? I didn't know there was a Virginia Casino in Vegas. Yeah, no, it's great. And they have like a giant version of the Robert E. Lee Memorial out there.

Oh, that's fine. We got two Virginia questions in this show. Yeah. I was wondering what landmark you were going to go to for Virginia. Obviously, it's the apple grave. Everyone knows. The apple horse grave. The horse grave. Everyone knows that.

Tom Lumperson, do you know anything about what is in Virginia that is interesting west virginia mountain mama take me home country roads that's west virginia yeah it is you know are they famous you know for their they're constantly backwards moving travelators and so he always has to be walking in the wrong direction. Is it him that's walking, or is he riding something? He is walking, yeah. He is walking, okay.

You are most of the way there. There is a landmark in Virginia, and if you knew what that was, the rest of the question would solve itself. There is a reason why this tour guide has to walk backwards. Oh, really? It's a Virginia landmark. If he looks at it, will he turn to stone like Medusa? Yeah, the Medusa site in Virginia.

The old Virginia myth, yeah. It's just as famous as the Apple Horse Grave, right? Duh. Is he restricted to walking backwards? Is he not allowed to look at it for some reason? Based on like gender or something like that? Oh, is religious reasons he doesn't look at it? No, you got it early.

It's to keep an eye on the crowd. Oh, because they're going to do something. Are they going to pinch something? Is this Charlie and the Chocolate Factory? Is this Willy Wonka? He's like, you can't fool me again! I lost so many kids last time! Or is it to stop people from leaving things behind? Oh yeah, it's like a national park and they...

It is all of these reasons. I mean, not thelie and the chocolate factory one um and to be fair if you if you set charlie in the chocolate factory here it would be genuinely awful in so many ways um and i will come back to that when you solve where it is because i want to drill down on that a little oh i can't wait oh i can't is it like it's a dangerous place like a dangerous place, like a mining facility or something like that?

If it's to steal, stop people from getting lost or from stealing, or then... And to stop people from putting things there. Is it like near the capital, maybe? Is it related to D.C.?

Yeah, Virginia is right next to Washington, D.C. Is it like the tour of the White House? The Oval Office, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, now is right next to Washington, DC. Is it like the tour of the White House? The Oval Office, yeah. Yeah, now you're getting very close. I think it might have to be Tom the American that puts the final piece in here, but you're in the right area.

Physically, metaphorically, he is keeping an eye on the crowd as they go round this site. Metaphorically an eye. A metaphorical eye. What in DC would make a horrible Charlie and the Trouble? Also, when I asked you, Tom, if anything was in Virginia, you could have said Washington.

Washington's not in Virginia. Washington is not a state. There are the 50 states and then there is Washington DC separate. Absolutely not a state. Oh, is it? And I also., separate. Absolutely not a state. Oh, is it? And I also associate it more with Maryland a little bit, because it's like sort of on the border between the two, I believe, right?

Maryland and Virginia. Yeah, so this is not in D.C., so it can't be the White House, can't be the Capitol building. It's just over the Potomac River. It's a monument of some kind. It's not the graveyard, is it? It's very much a restricted site. The Pentagon? Yes, it's the Pentagon.

He is a tour guide at the Pentagon, which is why that would make a terrible Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. Oh, yep, uh-huh, yeah, no. The whole Department of Defense war weapons thing. That's just a really bad Charlie and the Chocolate Factory that is. Seamus Nathan Wynne interviewed in 2015.

Genuine name, genuine tour guide. Tour guides at the Pentagon have to walk backwards so they can keep all their guests in vision at all times because there are a lot

of secret areas around there. So it's like a rule they have to do it. Yep. That's crazy. I don't think I can walk backwards for more than like a minute. That is such a skill. That carves must be absolutely hench.

Oh my goodness, yeah! I hear they also do that at the Pentagon Casino in Las Vegas. For authenticity. You are actually allowed to take photos during the tour. It's just that they keep an eye on you in case you are taking a photo off through the doors that you might be trying to poke your head through there is one tour route and you are only allowed to go on that tour route this is so stressful i cannot imagine ella we haven't had your question yet so So whenever you're ready, go for it.

Yes. So thanks to Vasco Casimiro for sending this in. And the question is, in Turkey, some cafes refilled their Heinz ketchup bottles with a cheaper product. What minor change to the bottle allowed customers to know that they were getting the real thing? I'll say that one more time. Whoa. In Turkey, some cafes refilled their Heinz ketchup bottles with a cheaper product. What minor change to the bottle allowed customers to know they were getting the real thing.

Is it some kind of like tag or seal on the cap so that when you screw it off... Yeah, is it like a marker on it? Here's how paranoid I am about these questions, because it's the last one in the recording block now. We've been doing a load of these. We've just had the Paris question, and I'm reading it as like, what minor changes they make to... Were they refilling them with mustard instead of ketchup and they went transparent?

Is the real thing a reference to Coca-Cola and actually they were refilling them with mustard instead of ketchup and they went transparent? Is the real thing a reference to Coca-Cola and actually they were refilling them with Coke? I'm drilling down on every word now. You got to take a lateral break, Tom. You're going to be around, you're going to be like looking at ketchup everywhere, you're like, there's got to be something different. So is the thing that changes about it what is like

distinctively different like because of what they add to it or is it like a like a seal or like a label that they add on top of it to like be like this is real it's it's a change to the bottle it's not to the ketchup itself interesting so either it's a marker that people can look at to see that this is, this has not been tampered with. I'm also thinking about like how there's like glass and plastic bottles of ketchup and like how there are some that like are upside down already so that when you can do that. But you can still refill an upside down bottle of ketchup. Can I ask, is it like maybe it's like clear as opposed to being opaque or something like that? I think all ketchup bowls are clear now, aren't they? Yeah, but if you want to like fake it, you could just be like, just trust us. Is it something to do with the ability

to refill it? Like, is there something in the way to stop you? No. Okay. What would you cut ketchup with? No. What would you cut ketchup with? Water, I guess. Corn syrup if it's the US. It's not about cutting ketchup, but, you know, they're putting an alternative in in these cases.

Because that's the problem. This is some obscure knowledge. The vinegar you get in British fish and chip shops. So you get salt and vinegar with your fish and chips, and it's normally like big thing of salt, big bottle of vinegar. Except a lot of the time, that is not real vinegar. It is

like synthetic. It is just ethanoic acid, some flavouring, some colourings. It's like really cheap substitute vinegar. What? And they get that, and they have to water it down. It just comes with this concentrate. Like,

there's a couple stories of them accidentally putting the concentrate out there and like burning customers. Oh my goodness. What normally happens is they cut it

with too much water. So sometimes if you're in England you're like, this vinegar doesn't taste or anything. Yeah, they've just put

too much water in there to cut it further. And you're just basically just moistening your chips with water. It's not a pleasant thing. This is actually really good knowledge for the British people. Yeah. So I did a video on that years ago,

but I didn't realise that sometimes it gets watered down too much. So I'm not happy with that video at all, because if I was making that video these days, I would get an actual bottle of the concentrate and run experiments. Like how much can you water down? I am writing that idea down. If by the time this episode has come out, there's a video about how much can you water down vinegar before people notice. We got to beat him to the punch, guys. We got to. Yeah, you've got to.

Well, you know, there was like William Osmond did the, what was it? How many, how much wood chip could you put oh yeah rice crispy treats it was it was in rice crispy treats and he went from zero to 100 and it turns out 25 wood dust you don't really notice it it's just a bad rice crispy treat i feel so bad for his partner who had to try them. To put us slightly back on track, it's not about watering down the ketchup at all. It's about being able to tell if they knew they were getting the real thing. So there's like a warning that says this ketchup should slide out at this speed.

You need to hit the underside of this ketchup bottle 50 times before anything actually comes out of the damn thing it's like a yeah like a physics test like when people like uh like swirl soju and stuff like that like you have to like shake it if you shake it doesn't make a different sound it is in its way a test i would say is it some sort of you know know how we have universal indicators for like, oh, oh, is there something in it that changes colour if it's not real ketchup? Or they just print the colour the ketchup should be on the label. And if you refill it with a different one, you've got to compare that the label matches up. What?

No way! That's it. That's exactly it. They just changed the label border to the Heinz ketchup color. Oh, that's clever. So you could do a precise color match. The label actually read, is that Heinz? Check with the color of the label.

That's clever. That's very clever. That's really clever. That is really clever. But you know, I would be spending time, if I was going to use fake, I'd be spending time like changing the color of my ketchup in the back room, like testing the different food dyes.

Instead of printing money, we're printing out new Heinz ketchup labels with different colors on them. Oh yeah. I wonder if they can trademark the ketchup color, because like Coke have trademarked their red. It's illegal to make a ketchup that is Heinz red. They can't do that. Surely they can't do that. Well, if corporations can do anything, then they'll try.

Yes, they will. Which brings us to the final thing. The thing I asked the audience right at the start of the show lightning strikes and the moon lights up briefly which 1998 film are you watching i'm thinking frankenstein but i 1998 1998 is it actual lightning and the actual moon or are those they're on screen they're on screen this is not this is not you watching a film and this happens outside to some supernatural reason no but like is it lightning or is it like a character named lightning there's lightning mcqueen his cars yeah my brain immediately went to lightning mcqueen on. He's on strike at night.

A bolt of lightning strikes and the moon lights up. The movie Bolt. Now we've gotten too loud. The lightning casino in Las Vegas.

It can't be as simple as that just happens to be the iconic opening to an iconic film. Or can it? Lightning Moon. The movie. I was three years old in 1998 so oh i would have been maybe one maybe not caroline no don't hurt him don't hurt him

he's already down this run someone has just stabbed me in the heart i i told i literally told sabrina i can't wait for us are there any are there any podcasts run by baby boomers that i can invite three people on from because between answering progress and you so close to getting away scott free and then the last of the last record on the last session the last question. Okay, you should know this. This is a film that the title of it has become a reference. Even if you've not seen the movie, you'll know what this is about. Lightning Moon? Yeah, that's it, Tom.

It's Lightning Moon. Well done. Lightning Moon 2, Electric Boogaloo. Well, have a think about this. If the moon lights up when there's a lightning strike, why is that happening? Why could that happen? Is it a model of the moon?

Yeah, you're getting there. It's definitely a big clue about what's going on in this movie. The animation, claymation, maybe? To be fair, most of the audience watching this already know the secret that the character doesn't have, but that's a giveaway clue to the character's position. It's a model of the moon. It's a clue that the moon is a lot closer than it should be, that the lightning is a lot closer than it should be,

that this character's world is a lot smaller than you might think. Truman Show? The Truman Show. Got it, Tom. Oh! Yeah, I never noticed this. There's a bolt of lightning in the distance and the moon also lights up for just one frame, and it is this lovely

little subtle visual effect that they added in there. Oh, that's great. What a great film. So when Neil deGrasse Tyson watched that movie, he was like, no, no, no, I gotcha, I gotcha, I got that. That wouldn't happen. So when Neil deGrasse Tyson watched that movie, he was like, no, no, no, I got you, I got you, I got that. That wouldn't happen. So that is our show. Thank you very much.

Last time, Tom, you gave the plug for the podcast. And this time we're going to Ella and Caroline. Tell us about the show and what's going on in your lives. So we can do like one word back and forth. So let's do this. Let's learn everything

is a fantastic science and miscellaneous show. You've got like 10 seconds,

go. It's a podcast. It's a really, really good podcast. We talk about science. We talk about things like the things you talk about on Lateral. Go to letsleaneverythingpod.com Find us good podcast. We talk about science. We talk about things like the things you talk about on Lateral.

Go to letsleaneverythingpod.com. Find us all there. We love you. We love you. It's really funny. You should come and hang out with us. You will learn everything that we find interesting. So, yeah.

Guaranteed, you will learn everything. Thank you very much to all of you for coming on. If you want to know more about this show, you can do that at lateralcast.com where you can also send in your own listener question. We have video highlights every week at can do that at lateralcast.com where you can also send in your own listener question. We have video highlights every week at youtube.com slash lateralcast and you can find us

at lateralcast pretty much everywhere. Thank you very much to Tom Lum. Woo! To Caroline Roper. Yeah! To Ella Hubber. Ka-chow! I've been Tom Scott and that has been lateral.