Lateral with Tom Scott - 89: Smashing products

Episode Date: June 21, 2024

Simon Clark, Alec Steele and Rowan Ellis face questions about red resources, radioactive readings and retooled recreations. LATERAL is a comedy panel game podcast about weird questions with wonderful answers, hosted by Tom Scott. For business enquiries, contestant appearances or question submissions, visit https://lateralcast.com. HOST: Tom Scott. QUESTION PRODUCER: David Bodycombe. RECORDED AT: The Podcast Studios, Dublin. EDITED BY: Julie Hassett. MUSIC: Karl-Ola Kjellholm ('Private Detective'/'Agrumes', courtesy of epidemicsound.com). ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS: Sven van den Bergh, Ryan Neary. FORMAT: Pad 26 Limited/Labyrinth Games Ltd. EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS: David Bodycombe and Tom Scott. © Pad 26 Limited (https://www.pad26.com) / Labyrinth Games Ltd. 2024. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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I did, last time, sort of skip over that, because it's been a while since we've talked. It's like, oh, I should say hi to Simon. Tell the world about what you're up to right now. We're recording well in advance here. What have you got coming up in the next few months? Blimey. At the moment, I'm working on a primer video for El Nino. I'm trying to do a new series where I'm sort of introducing people to different interesting bits of the atmosphere in like a primer format. So I'm doing that. Other than that, my event horizon is quite near at the moment. I'm not planning more than about a month in advance. I know the feeling. Well, good luck with whatever you do in that month. We are also joined back on the show.

Blacksmith... I've had the same thing, that like, I don't know what adjective to go with for you, Alec. Because you make stuff that is both video and you make stuff that is physical. And like, you've had to learn both those sets of skills. I think I would describe myself as a metalworker who makes YouTube videos about metalworking. Blacksmith, it kind of sounds a little bit cooler than metalworker. And so I'll often say, YouTubing, blacksmith, or something like that. I make things and it goes on YouTube.

This is going to come out a few months after we record. What are you going to be working on in that time? What are the big projects in the pipeline for you? My planning skills are quite limited, and so I only know what I'm making right now, which happens to be a steam power hammer, just, it's mini. It's a very small desktop model steam power hammer. And after that, I have no idea. We'll find out.

Maybe it will be a full-size one by then. Do we have three people on the show today with very limited horizons on their plans? We'll find out. Rowan Alice from the Queer Movie Podcast, her own YouTube channel, her own TikTok. How are you doing and what are you working on these days? I'm doing great, working on more video essays. But I do have a book, a fiction, first fiction book that has been written and so in a few months time we'll be on submission to publishers

seeing if they want to buy it. So it might be either a great time for me, or simply the worst time of my life. So very excited either way, I guess. And you can find out about that by looking up Rowan now as you're listening to this. So good luck, Rowan! As usual, our questions have been designed to subject our guests to 40 minutes of mental torture. Unless your podcast player is set to two times speed, in which case, please listen to it twice to get the full effect. Let's take things nice and slow as we ease ourselves into the first question.

What unremarkable suburban office building has been nicknamed Chernobyl on the Seine? I'll say that again. What unremarkable suburban office building has been nicknamed Chernobyl on the Seine? I pronounce Chernobyl both ways there because I'm not actually sure which one it is and I apologise to the entire of Ukraine. Okay, Seine, famously the river that goes through Paris. I'm not sure which other cities or other places it goes through actually. I assume it must go through other places because rivers normally have more than one dimension. And it's unremarkable, like the building is unremarkable. So that takes away the idea

of like some horrific accident has happened, or I guess maybe the building is unremarkable but maybe something awful happened inside the building or some something like that could be part of it. Or was it a filming studio? Did they film the HBO mini series Chernobyl in an unremarkable building by the river Seine? And it's an office building. So I guess, yeah, is it something to do with the work that's done there? Like the, the companies that are in the office are like, do some horrific environmental damage or some there's like some other thing to do with like the people occupying the space?

Is it a building that is dilapidated and run down where they test hazmat suits? Dilapidated and run down? Definitely. This is not much to look at from the outside. Okay. Also not related to a tragedy. The connotations of Chernobyl being obviously the nuclear fallout, things like that, but it's not due to a tragedy. But I don't know whether it's like, if

someone's nicknamed it that, is it because people don't go near it or there is something about its condition that means that people stay away from it, potentially? There's the exclusion zone around Chernobyl. So is this a building that has an exclusion zone around it? It does, yes. And is it the Seine in France? It is.

Is it dilapidated to the point where it, because Paris is very heavily populated and stuff, so I don't know whether it's like, this is a building where it could collapse or it could fall because it's just that old and dilapidated, but they can't do an explosion or something. It's not dangerous because it's going to collapse. Actually, we're closer earlier on. I was wondering whether it's some sort of experiment to find out how long untouched the building might survive or be taken over by nature or something like that. It's kind of like a little bit of a science experiment and people aren't allowed in. So they're not disturbing it. Heather Allisera Is it, is it where Marie Curie lived? Is it like where...

Jason Vale Yes. Heather Allisera Because she must, because she lived in Paris, right? Jason Vale Yes, she did. Keep going. Heather Allisera So is it like where she used to, where she used to do her experiments or where that was like something that happened? So it's like like there would be some element of radioactivity that hadn't had its like half-life like died enough, I don't know what the technical term is, but whatever for it. So it's still dangerous. Because she herself was radioactive by the end of her life. So presumably where she lived, not even where she did her experiments, would still be radioactive with radium, I would assume. Where she's buried even?

Rowan, you've got it. Simon, I think you tapped in with the assist there. It is Marie Curie's former laboratory in a suburb in the south of Paris. It is still full of nuclear waste 100 years later. So yes, you're right, it has an exclusion zone around it. A big concrete wall. She only worked there for about a year before her death due to radiation poisoning, but the abandoned building has some of the highest radioactivity counts

in the entirety of France. Damn. And I thought I made a mess. As far as I know, Alec, you don't work with radioactive stuff all that much. No, no. Yet. There's always the next project. Can you forge uranium or anything like that? I assume it's not available to you as a regular member of the public, but...

It's a good question. If you have a uranium rod, how does it get made into a rod? Is it squeezed and mushed and forged? Is it poured? Is it rolled? I believe you have ore that you then refine, but you can't manufacture uranium unless it's hideously energetically expensive to do so. I'm pretty sure that everything, all the heavy isotopes in the Earth's crust are basically star snot that have been left over from previous massive stellar

objects, you know, compressing things under huge temperature and pressure. So would we say hard star snot or gooey star snot? Very hard star snot uranium, I would say. Yes, this was Marie Curie's — I shouldn't be laughing while I'm giving this roundup, but — this was Marie Curie's laboratory in Paris, which, 100 years later, is still radioactive and is nicknamed Chernobyl on the Seine. Each of our guests has brought a question with them. We will start today with Simon.

This question has been sent in by Sven Vandenberg. The USS Los Angeles was given to the US as part of World War I reparations. On the 25th of August 1927, one docked at the New Jersey naval base, the rear of the ship rose straight into the air, then completed a 180 degree flip. Why did the ship and its 25 onboard crew survive unharmed? I'll repeat that. Los Angeles was given to the US as part of World War I reparations. On the 25th of August, 1927, while docked at a New Jersey naval base, the rear of the ship rose straight into the air, then completed a 180 degree flip. Why did the ship and its 25 onboard crew survive unharmed?

1927, you said. 25th of August, 1927, you said. 25th of August, 1927. They were all at some crazy party, man. It was a speakeasy time. The boat was flipping out. Everything was going wild. Witnesses said the last word said on board were, watch this. Although, if you are drunk, apparently you are more likely to survive a fall from height. Yeah, because you ragdoll, right? Like, you don't have any tension in your body, so you're more likely to flop and you're less likely to seriously injure yourself. I mean, it's

like a 2% chance versus a 1% chance, I think. It's still not something you want to try, but... When we say it was lifted in the air, a velocity at which it was lifted in the air, do we know if it was lifted fast or slowly? I don't believe I have been given a speed. I don't think the speed is the relevant thing here. And when we say 180 degrees, if you imagine a Pringle tube, are we saying 180 degrees and the Pringle tube is rotated like this, about its ends?

If you have the axis of the Pringles tube, you know, going along... Why are we going with Pringles tube? Yeah, a radially symmetric object. I got it, Alec. This worked for me. Yeah, and now I've called that out, I'm like, I can't think of any other cylinders that actually work. You're right, Pringles tube is the right word. If you imagine your Pringles tube,

other hypotheticals are probably available, then imagine that you drill two holes in the middle of the tube, right, so halfway down, and then you flip the whole thing 180 degrees. So where the plastic cap was at the top, now you've got the silvery bit at the top, and the plastic cap is on the bottom. Alright, so the back half of this boat is going in that axis all the way around. It's like someone doing a handstand and then just kind of falling over. Yes, precisely.

Alright. Was this perhaps a training exercise where they put sailors inside and try to find out and teach them how to deal with being upside down and what have you? I mean, there was a ship that did that, like, by design. It got decommissioned, I think, last year, called the RP Flip, which was a research vessel that went out as a regular boat, and then when it got to the bit of water it needed to stay in for a while, would turn on that axis so half the vessel was underwater, half of it was above water, and it was like

a pen bobbing vertically. And the entire thing was designed to do that, so there were two sinks in each kitchen, and two toilets in each bathroom, and the whole thing would just go through a flip motion. I suspect in 1927, the USS Los Angeles was not designed to do that. But that's the- I'm just going to look at my notes. No. I suspect in 1927, the USS Los Angeles was not designed to do that. But that's the kind of motion we're talking about for the back half of the ship. All right. Yeah, precisely.

And it was not a training exercise. This was not intentional. Ah, okay. So with these questions, what happens when I listen to them? Is every single new piece of information suddenly switches my train of thought? Because I was like, okay, we haven't necessarily set, we know it's the USS Los Angeles, but that could be like a model of a ship.

It doesn't have to be an actual ship, but then there were people on board it. Then I was like, okay, if something had flipped, could it be it's like out at sea, but then it was docked and it was in New Jersey, so it's unlikely to be some like hurricane season situation. So every single little silly idea that I had has just evaporated away. But it also is interesting, I mean, in terms of it flipping, and it is docked, but it's like, is it being pulled up from a crane? Like is someone taking it up accidentally because they were meant to be like pulling both of it up to move it somewhere, but one of the cranes wasn't working, so it just kept pulling one side,

and it like flipped as an accident in that way kind of thing? There were no cranes involved, I can tell you that. Or maybe it's designed to do this. Right, this was war reparations. This came in from presumably Germany, given it's after the Second World War. Yes, it came from Germany. So it's been renamed the Second World War. Yes, it came from Germany. So it's been renamed the USS Los Angeles. It was originally known as ZR3.

Could it have been like a prototype submarine or something like that? If we're talking about the something shaped like a Pringles tube. I don't know if it was shaped like a Pringles tube, I've just got Pringles tubes stuck in my head now. Is it... I feel like this is not a normal ship. I feel like there is something that has been given the name USS Los Angeles because the Navy's got control of it, but that doesn't

necessarily mean it is a traditional ship. Because like, the Royal Navy calls their naval base as HMS. Yeah, you're on the right lines. Lakehurst, New Jersey, which is where it was docked, is not a normal naval base. Wait. Okay. This is so silly. But I was on a podcast last year where we were talking about modes of transport and people had to pick their favourite modes of transport. And someone said a ship, but they didn't mean a boat ship. They meant like a Zeppelin airship situation. So is it some other type of ship that's not like a... like the Navy thing is kind of throwing us off?

It's a Zeppelin. It is a Zeppelin. The USS Los Angeles was a Zeppelin, I remember reading that somewhere. And because it's... yeah. And so it's being pulled over by the wind, and the folks on board are just in the basket, and they're okay. It's just... it's been pulled up... I've seen a photo of this somewhere, I'm sure. There's an incredible photo of this where the airship, it's just technically it's the

tail, not the stern, that's gone all the way up into the air. And it's basically just hangs there. And as far as we know, this is the only time an airship's got in that position and made it out of it. Because what happened was the tail rudders had been tilted at angle and then a gust of wind caught the tail of the ship and basically flipped it over. So there were 25 crew on board and they weren't in a basket, they were hanging onto girders on the outside and then basically held on and corrected the error when it was parallel to the ground in the other direction. That's terrifying. I feel like that's even wilder that they were OK.

Like the idea of like, yeah, how are they OK? It's like, oh, don't worry. It was just an airship. They were just flipping in the air. Like that seemed even crazier. Wait, that's worse. And this is presumably enormous. I mean, if there is a room for 25 people to be hanging on girders on it, this is presumably enormous. I mean, if there is a room for 25 people to be hanging on girders on it, this is presumably enormous. And so you go 90 degrees up, you're now dozens of meters higher from the ground than you were.

In the picture of the Los Angeles above its tether, I'd say that the height of the airship at its tallest point is maybe five times the height of the tether that it was attached to. So you were right Alec, it did look like a Pringles tube. Yep. It slightly did. It slightly did. Planning for a summer road trip? Check.

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Unable to persuade the store to stock it, he threw his product on the floor. Suddenly, numerous customers wanted to buy the product. What happened? I'll say that again. In 1904, an ambitious young businessman tried to sell his new product to a major Paris department store. Unable to persuade the store to stock it, he threw his product on the floor. Suddenly, numerous customers wanted to buy the product.

What happened? Did he invent the rug? I believe. He had the little, I think they're called, like, pitares, the things you throw on the ground, and they go, kaboom! The snaps. Oh, the little, there's so many names for these things, the little tiny packages of gunpowder, where you throw them down at people's feet and they make little explosion noises.

Maybe that was just me in my childhood. Also for the edit, be careful because my French might not be proper. That might mean farts. Little farts. There's a stink bomb. This guy invented a stink bomb. I believe that's p'tit rather than p'tart. But also I think that p'tach is an insult in Klingon.

So between all of that… Klingon, yes it is. Simon, did you just back an insult in Klingon. So between all of that... Klingon. Yes, it is. Simon, did you just back me up on Klingon knowledge there? Yeah. It is a wonderful guess. It is not that. There's something about the department store, which is making me think of, like, stuff that you would sell in a department store typically,

that if you were to throw it on the ground would then be more appealing. So to me, that would be something which had contained something inside of it like a perfume or a smell where you like throw it, the bottle breaks, and then people are like, oh okay that's delightful. Like can I have a bottle of that maybe? Rowan, you have nailed every aspect of this story perfectly. Hey! You said stink bomb earlier and I made a note of that and just wrote it down. I was like, refer back to that later.

And then you just came in with perfume. Yes, this is Francois Coty, who had tried to get all sorts of fragrances off the ground. He arrived at the Grand Magazine de Louvée to ask the buyer to stock his new perfume, La Rose. I knew I wasn't going to get through the French pronunciations in that in one go. I knew it. La Rose Jacques Binault. With no track record of success, the buyer refused.

He smashed the sample bottle on the ground in anger. And just like you said, Rowan, a few folks came up and were like, that's a nice perfume. Can we have some? There is one more element to this story, though. You've got most of it, Rowan. What's the other little note I've got here? That was it like a plant by the store itself?

Was there some kind of like publicity stunt element to it where it wasn't like, oh I'm so angry I throw it on the ground. It was like deliberately done in some way? I will take publicity stunt on that, Rowan. I think that, Rowan. I think that's close enough. There are suggestions, and you can't libel the dead, so I will repeat these suggestions, that perhaps Francois Coty might have planted a few people in the store to come up and say,

oh, that's a very nice perfume. Is that true? We will never know. History has not recorded it. But yeah, you basically got every element of that very quickly. Congratulations. Oh, go on, Rowan. Listen, you lot can get all of your fantasy science questions.

I'll get the random department store. I've had enough people come over and try and spray me with perfume to know what department stores are all about. We will go over to Rowan for the next question. Take it away. Interestingly, another sort of shopping-related one, if you visit a high-end boutique you are likely to receive less attentive service if you carry this. What is it and why does it cause a change of attitude? If you visit a high-end boutique you are likely to receive less attentive service if you carry

this. What is it, and why does it cause a change of attitude? I remember many, many years ago when I was in school, someone did a project to try and work out if you looked rich, would you get more attention in shops? That was their hypothesis. I think it was something in sociology or something like that. That was their little experiment they were doing. And they proved the exact opposite hypothesis, which is that if you look like you belong in a high-end store, people will mostly ignore you.

If you have dressed down, and you are trying to deliberately look like you do not belong in a high-end store, actually you'll get a lot of attention, because it turns out the people who run the store will go, why are they in there? So I wonder if there's some kind of counterintuitive thing on this. — So cat burglar costume. — Is that different to a regular burglar costume? — It's got ears.

— There we go. Balaclava, blacked-out clothing, ears. Cat burglar. — Large Hessian sack with dollar sign on the side. That's the other important bit. That joke from the goodies in 1970, probably. A shopping bag. Okay.

Is there some weird reason that, you know, oh, they've already got a shopping bag? I can ignore them because this shopper is clearly competent and doesn't need my help because they've already shopped before today. Although that might be where they're putting the stolen goods. There might be more attention there. So I would say that is an interesting hypothesis. And I do think that there is something to do with the, there is definitely something in that area of like, what kind of person do you look like? But I will say specifically, this is, when I say less attentive service, I'm talking

about this, like, good type of service, essentially. So you carry a thing, and the staff are more likely to ignore you. In high-end stores, you said? Yep. I cannot get umbrellas out of my head, since this question was asked, and I do not know why umbrellas are of my head since this question was asked and I do not know why umbrellas are stuck in my head. Keep going down that route Alec.

Okay, okay. What else does Mary Poppins have? A raincoat. More specifically, why would someone carrying an umbrella make people in the store give them less attentive service? Because umbrella is the item. Okay, why did I think umbrella? I don't know, it just happened. But if you were carrying an umbrella, it would be a sign that…

That you are ready at any time for an umbrella duel. Yes. Yes. It might contain a knife ready to stab any opponent. I don't know where I was going with this. Some spy gear, I think. That was a thing, though, wasn't it? There was an air rifle hidden in an umbrella in one spy case, and they shot a poison dart. Oh, god. It was a guy in London. I seem to remember this. In the Cold War.

Yes. Yes, there has definitely been an umbrella stabbing incident at some point. I want to be able to tell you, Simon, that that was exactly why the high-end boutiques had been really just burnt by a rash of covert umbrella assassinations. But unfortunately, not the answer I'm looking for, at least. Is it because it reminds you of rain and it makes you unhappy? Is it something like that? Or you're more likely to be wet, and therefore the shop assistant does not want to get near you because you are...

No, you're more likely to be dry, and therefore the shop assistant does not want to get near you because you are — no, you're more likely to be dry. Dry. You have less empathy for somebody that is dry as opposed to somebody that looks like a drowned rat from having come in from the rain, and so you pay more attention to the drowned rat. I think that one can make a little bit of a — there's a stereotype about umbrellas that the type of person that carries an umbrella is a person of perhaps more well-to-do socioeconomic standing. And so that person maybe is less approachable, but then also kind of seems like they are familiar and comfortable with this

high-end boutique store and might not want to be approached by somebody. I guess if you're a sales agent in a high boutique store, I think thinking back to what Tom was saying about like, if you're trying to give good service to someone, if you've got a range of people in front of you, who are you more likely to go up to and try and get, kind of try to approach thinking that they would be, I guess, someone who might be willing to spend money in the store. Oh, if you're carrying an umbrella, you are diving in out of the rain? No. That's the wrong way round because if you've just come into the store to avoid the rain, you're not going to have as much attention on... Ah! I'm phrasing this really badly.

Oh, as in they might think that they're just coming into the store to get out of the rain, but they're going to go out because it's like a temporary shelter type of deal. Yes, whereas if you're carrying an umbrella, you planned ahead, you decided to go there, you know what you're doing, so you don't need to be upsold on stuff. You're circling around it so hard. Is it the whole class sort of thing that you mentioned, that if you are carrying the umbrella, you're more likely to have, by stereotypes, more disposable income, so you don't need to have such a hard sell, whereas if you don't have the umbrella, you may need to have more

service pressed upon you in order to buy a product. It's specifically that if you don't have an umbrella, they think you have more money to spend in store. But why is that? Because you've arrived in a taxi, not on public transit. That's exactly it. You did not have to walk. Oh, that's clever. You didn't have to walk there. You have come in a town car, in a taxi, in a chauffeured vehicle of some kind, and they,

if there was an umbrella involved to get you from the car to the store, the driver was the one holding it. I kind of feel happy that all three of us took a while to get in the head of someone who visits a store like that. Yeah. I was going to say earlier, like, I feel like it's a good sign. It's not something I do very frequently. My favourite part was the umbrella darts.

And thank you to producer David, who said that Russian writer Markov was stabbed by a poisoned umbrella on Waterloo Bridge. That's the one I was thinking of. So allegedly, some sales associates, especially at high-end boutiques, have claimed that when they see a customer carrying an umbrella, it is not a promising indicator that they are going to have a disposable income because they have walked in the rain like a poor person. Next question then. In March 2016, the soccer team Boca Juniors were preparing for a Copa Libertadores match. Why was the goalkeeper grateful

that they trained using volleyballs? I'll say that again, in March 2016, the soccer team Boca Juniors were preparing for a Copa Libertores match. Why was the goalkeeper grateful that they trained using volleyballs? Okay, volleyballs versus footballs. I've never played volleyball,

but are the balls smaller? Heavier? Are they perhaps lighter than a regular football? It would hurt less. They're kind of more designed to be like smacked than a football is. A football's for kicking, a volleyball is for like... Yeah, good point. His hands might be hurting. So I guess the goalkeeper could be grateful because of like the literal getting smacked in the face, but also might be grateful because they practiced, like Simon said, if the ball was smaller, with a ball that was harder to train with, so that when it came to the match

and the football was bigger, it was like, oh, okay, this is actually easier. Okay, there are two very enthusiastic people on this call who both think they've got it. Alec, you gasped first, so we're going to go to you. The volleyball has worse aerodynamic characteristics and it moves weirdly in the air, allowing the goalie to practice harder and better. Simon, you gasped second. Is it to do with atmospheric pressure and where the football game was taking place? Yes, and I love that you phrased it as atmospheric pressure.

You are definitely closer. So is it that they trained using larger balls because they were playing a match at higher altitude with lower pressure and so the football would inflate to a larger size when they were playing? Part of that is right. They were going to be playing at altitude. The aerodynamics of a ball in flight must be different based on the altitude. So if you're higher up in elevation, air is thinner, the ball presumably moves faster

than if you're at a lower altitude. The volleyballs, when kicked, were moving more like, when they were kicking the volleyballs at, say, sea level, wherever the Bocca Juniors lived, the volleyballs were flying and being kicked more like a soccer ball would be kicked at an altitude where the air is thinner and it's moving faster. That is spot on.

The air was thinner. So this was a weird type of high-altitude training. Like they weren't making themselves do more work, and they weren't working at altitude. They were just using a different weight of ball because the thin air meant there was less resistance. So this must have been taking place in like Ecuador or something like that? Bolivia. In La Paz.

Bolivia. Yep. Absolutely right. You nailed it, folks. Congratulations. Good teamwork, everyone. When your celebration of life is prepaid in advance, it becomes a gift from you to your family later. Because no one should have to plan for a loss while they're experiencing one. Paying in advance protects your loved ones and gives you the peace of mind you deserve. Let us help you plan every detail with professionalism and compassion. We are your local Dignity Memorial provider. Find us at DignityMemorial.ca

Get ready to level up your morning routine with the Shark Beauty line. These tools are simple to use and super versatile. And whether your hair is curly, straight, or somewhere in between, they won't damage your locks with heat. After your shower, grab the Shark Flex Style or Speed Style for a quick styling session. Or do it all with the Shark Smooth Style. Believe me, having these tools at your fingertips makes looking your best a total breeze every single day. Buy your shark beauty tools now at sharkbeauty.ca for all hair kind. Alec, over to you. This question has been sent in by Ryan Neary. Marcus was trying to write some code

to model a pig. However, he made a simple programming error which has lived on ever since. How? I'll repeat that. Marcus was trying to write some code to model a pig. However, he made a simple programming error which has lived on ever since. How? I'm going to hang back because I think I might have an idea. Oh, there's someone with a load of video game knowledge. Alright. And I think I might know this one as well, because I think... And then if it's just me, I don't, I truly know nothing about code, the concept of code programming, zero knowledge.

So if I need to know quite literally anything about code, I will not be able to get this on my own. Well I have the bit of knowledge that Marcus is the first name of the guy who made Minecraft. And that there are pigs in Minecraft. Unfortunately, I have never played Minecraft and I don't know anything more than that. The error is a common one when you're dealing with geometry. So I don't think you need to know anything about code. The issue, Alec, is that you've then been like, don't worry, Rowan, if you don't know code, because as long as you know geometry, it'll be fine.

And I think, er, fully not any better at that. This is the reason that everything in Minecraft is a cube. He just got his spheres and his cubes mixed up, and now everything in Minecraft is a cube. Is it to do with the texture of the pig being wrapped to the geometry and giving it a really derpy look, like with the eyes too far apart? I don't know what a pig looks like in Minecraft. Okay, okay. I mean, it looks like a cubeoid pig.

I think the answer to your question, to the best of my knowledge, is no. Oh, okay. That's not what I thought it was then. Well, what did you think it was? So I think the pigs just look a little bit derpy in Minecraft. And I assume that was because when he wrapped the geometry of like, because you have a texture, right? There's just like a flat texture that then you assign to bits of your geometry within the game

That different bits got assigned to the the wrong parts basically and that made it look unusual Maybe that's just how Marcus thinks that pigs look like I think it's relevant that there is something that looks unusual Because of this error. I'm now questioning all my Minecraft pig related knowledge. Oh, this is on you Simon. I'm sorry. I haven't played for quite a while to be fair. Is it Alec, is Minecraft part of it? Can we confirm that Minecraft is part of it?

Because we kind of jumped into that agenda, whatever got confirmed. Absolutely it is. Okay. I also have never played a game in my life. So we're really, I'm really not able to bring it. I think lads listen listen. I'm so sorry. There's really nothing I could give here. How's your pig knowledge Rowan? Can you weigh in on pigs at all?

They are mammals and I believe they are pink sometimes. The tails curl the wrong way. The legs are actually stuck in its head. And it lives on. I can't think of any memes about pigs. Pigs. Snouts. They're big and round. They have curly tails. If there is a pig in Minecraft, perhaps the one that you're thinking about was not the first attempt. Oh! Yeah, because there are two types of pigs in Minecraft. There are pigs like you have as farm animals, but there are pig men who are mobs in the

nether who are bipedal. So presumably his mistake was he tried to make a pig, but instead of giving it four legs, he gave it two legs. And that became the pig man? I don't think so. Oh, okay. Is that an okay? So is that Simon, we're going to we're going to filter the knowledge through you as someone

who at least knows that Minecraft exists. Is there anything where descriptors that could be used to model a pig in terms of like shape or color, size or elements of a pig that kind of, I guess, along the same vein could be mapped onto something else? Or is it like actually the pigmen are the thing? There are other animals in Minecraft. So you have cows, you have chickens and vanilla Minecraft are not... certainly in that period, like in the early days. I don't think you had squid.

I'm trying to remember what other mobs there are off top of it. Didn't you just get like the directions mixed up? So the pigs all started walking sideways or backwards or upside down or something like that? You're onto a track that I like. You're onto a track that's close. But direction not in terms of travel, perhaps thinks direction in terms of when he was making the model.

Time. They went backwards through time. So they were just back to front? They were... Inside out? They were... Oh dear. Full Galaxy Quest teleporter there. Yes! Thank you! Thank you! Your mind went there as well. That's the second Star Trek reference, Simon.

Yeah. I think I've come to the conclusion, Tom, that we're big old nerds. He swapped one axis with another. So when trying to make a pig that is long and that is wide and short, it ended up being tall and narrow. Oh, is it a zombie that he ended up being tall and narrow. Oh, is it a zombie that he ended up making? Wait, are these... what are the green things in Minecraft called? Creeper!

It's a creeper! The big green things that explode that are on the Minecraft t-shirts kids wear and things like that, are those pigs gone wrong? Because they have four legs! They have four tiny legs. So the creepers in Minecraft are the result of a programming error when he was trying to program a pig because he couldn't preview his design in the 3D modeler and so he got his X and Y axis all mixed up. Actually probably X and Z axis, Z, whichever you prefer, mixed up, and that made Creepers.

I thought this was going to be some weird inside baseball question that I wasn't going to get, and I should have had faith there. I could have got that one. I do have the knowledge for that. Did not have the knowledge for that. That's it. His programming error created the Creepers in Minecraft, and they have lived on to this day. One last thing then.

At the top of the show, I asked what kind of work does a redsmith do? Now, sometimes these questions land where we have a question about redsmiths in a panel that includes a blacksmith. Yes. Does anyone want to take a guess at what a redsmith does? Make say K-47s. I can see the logic. Why do you say that?

Because they're Soviet weapons. Okay. It was actually Tom when he visited my workshop about two years ago. For the day, he was a redsmith. That's not bad, actually. I had the t-shirt on and a couple of minor burns. Simon Rowan, I'll hand this over to you first, if anyone wants to take a guess. So I wish I knew why blacksmiths were called blacksmiths, because I feel like that might have given us a little cheeky little clue. I know that when, if it is a smith thing and

we're discounting alix, it seems like it is rather than being a red Smith, but it's actually nothing to do with traditional Smithing. Stuff when it gets really hot is red. I don't know whether there's a particular kind of metal or a particular kind of material that people Smith that's red. I'm really trying and throwing stuff out. Smith is just sort of to make right. So I mean, I'm wondering, is this like a phlebotomist or something? Is this somebody who extracts blood? You're making something else that's red. I'm out of ideas. Well, I can perhaps give some more ideas for Simon and Rowan, which is a blacksmith is somebody that works the black metal that is iron.

Like to smith something, or to be a smith is somebody that makes something that, like, you know, they make something with it. So you are making with the black metal. So the red metal could be, I don't know, copper? Copper. Spot on. A redsmith is someone who works with copper. By analogy to blacksmith, and Alec, you just ran through all the notes I have here. So congratulations with that.

Coppersmith and brazier will also be words there, but yes, a redsmith is the copper equivalent of a blacksmith. Alec, have you ever done any redsmithing? Or is it a different skill? Actually forging copper is almost identical to forging steel, except you do it at a lower temperature. So I've forged, like, plenty might be an exaggeration, but I've forged a good bit of copper. And I have done work with copper. So you know, blacksmith, redsmith, call me whatever smith you want.

Thank you very much to all our players. Congratulations on fighting through another set of questions. What's going on in your lives? Where can people find you? Alec, after that we'll start with you. I am doing blacksmithing and you can find me on YouTube doing blacksmithing and metalwork with my name, Alec Steele, which is a really lucky coincidence. Rowan.

I am Rowan, I do video essays on YouTube. If you search Rowan Ellis you will find me there. I'm also a co-host of the Queer Movie Podcast which does what it says on the tin. And Simon. You can find me on YouTube if you search my name's Simon Clark and I make videos about science mostly about climate science. If you want a particular recommendation, just before we recorded this I released a video about a hypothetical 21st century in which we beat climate change. I'm really proud of that project.

I think you should watch that one. And if you want to know more about this show, you can do that at lateralcast.com. We can also send in your own ideas or listener questions. We are at Lateral Cast basically everywhere, and there are regular video highlights at youtube.com slash lateralcast. With that, thank you very much to Simon Clarke. Hi! Thanks for having me.

Rowan Ellis. Ferry well. And Alex Clarke. Hi, thanks for having me. Rowan Ellis. Ferry well. And Alex Steele. Thank you for having me. I've been Tom Scott, and that's been Lateral.