Law&Crime Sidebar - 10 Best ‘Lil Woody’ Moments in Young Thug’s RICO Trial

Episode Date: June 14, 2024

Kenneth Copeland, also known as “Lil Woody,” took the stand this week after initially refusing to testify. The prosecution hoped the star witness could connect rapper Young Thug, whose real name is Jeffrey Williams, to various crimes as he’d done during police interviews. But even when he did agree to testify, Copeland was less than cooperative. Law&Crime’s Jesse Weber has some of the best moments from Copeland’s testimony.PLEASE SUPPORT THE SHOW: If you experienced adverse side effects after taking Ozempic or another weight loss medication, check your eligibility to file a claim by visiting https://www.glp1case.com/sidebar/?v=osb14HOST:Jesse Weber: https://twitter.com/jessecordweberLAW&CRIME SIDEBAR PRODUCTION:YouTube Management - Bobby SzokeVideo Editing - Michael DeiningerScript Writing & Producing - Savannah WilliamsonGuest Booking - Alyssa Fisher & Diane KayeSocial Media Management - Vanessa BeinSTAY UP-TO-DATE WITH THE LAW&CRIME NETWORK:Watch Law&Crime Network on YouTubeTV: https://bit.ly/3td2e3yWhere To Watch Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3akxLK5Sign Up For Law&Crime's Daily Newsletter: https://bit.ly/LawandCrimeNewsletterRead Fascinating Articles From Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3td2IqoLAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandcrime/Twitter: https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetworkFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawandcrimeTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lawandcrimenetworkTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lawandcrimeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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will keep you on the edge of your seat. Don't let your fears take hold of you as you dive into this addictive series. Love thrillers with a paranormal twist? The entire Oracle trilogy is available on Audible. Listen now on Audible. I don't know. I don't remember. I don't know what it's no. I guess I don't A man who goes by the nickname Lil Woody might be one of the most entertaining witnesses we've seen so far in the RICO trial against rapper Young Thug out in Atlanta. And that's saying something. We have some of the top moments from Kenneth Copeland's testimony over the last few days. Welcome to Sidebar, presented by Law and Crime. I'm Jesse Weber.

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Since the state's star witness, Kenneth Copeland, took the stand in the trial of rapper Jeffrey Williams, also known as Young Thug and his co-defendants, there has really been nothing short of absolute drama. But honestly, what do you expect in this case with all of its twists and turns? I'm talking, of course, about the case where Atlanta prosecutors allege that Williams is one of the founders of, YSL or Young Slime Life, which they claim is a criminal street gang that has been terrorizing the city. It's part of a wide-sweeping, racketeering, or RICO indictment where Williams and his co-defendants are charged with numerous crimes. The defense says that this is just a record label and there's nothing more nefarious

that's going on. Now this trial has been a little bit of a circus because, for one thing, it has been going on for what, almost a year and a half? And by the way, almost a year of that was jury selection alone. Well, now, one of the witnesses that we had been anticipating and that we were looking forward to hearing from was Kenneth Copeland. He had been mentioned many times in prior testimony and was seen speaking with police in an interrogation tape that leaked online.

He was supposed to be a star witness for the prosecution because he had previously told investigators that Williams was connected to criminal activity. But if prosecutors thought they were going to have pretty solid evidence in the form of Copeland's testimony, or it was going to be smooth sailing, they were disappointed. Why do I say that? Well, Copeland, who also goes by the nickname Woody or Lil Woody, was very uncooperative from the beginning. Before he was even called to the stand on Friday, June 7th, his attorney announced to the court that he didn't want to be there and he didn't want to testify. So, Your Honor, Mr. Copeland is here. I can state, as his attorney, that he intends to exercise his Fifth Amendment privilege against self-incrimination.

He does not wish to testify, Mr. Trial. And I would ask, there is no other, he's not on bond, he's not on probation. There's nothing like that. I would ask that he'd be allowed to leave this courtroom without being compelled to testify. Okay, now the prosecution had given Copeland what's called use immunity. And that means that whatever. he would say on the stand during this trial couldn't be used against him legally. Well, at least by the state, it seems there's some concern maybe on Copeland's part about whether he could end up

with federal charges. But anyway, putting that to the side, when you're granted use immunity and the court compels you to testify, you really can't plead the fifth anymore because you're right against self-incrimination is essentially protected. What's your pleasure? I said, what's your pleasure, sir? Do you wish to give testimony. I know you don't want to give testimony in this case, but you've been given immunity in this particular circumstance, use immunity. So are you going to testify? Yeah. Okay. And Mr. Copeland, good afternoon. Do you want to be here? Ma'am. Do you want to be here? I'm here. Okay. Are you going to let me ask you some questions? Okay. How old are you?

Grown. Okay, what does grown mean? I'm an adult. Okay. And when you said you're an adult, what number in years are you? I plead the feel. Mr. Copeland, given the fact that you have invoked your fifth member privilege, but the state has already given your immunity under 24-5-507, this court holds you on willful contempt, and we'll see you on Monday. And we'll see if we can get some more testimony at that point in time. Take them into custody.

Yep. Copeland was held. in contempt of court and he was taken to the Fulton County Jail for the weekend. He was back on that Monday and this time he at least answered questions but getting the answers that the prosecution wanted was a little more difficult. I mean even on basic questions like how old are you or where did you go to school proved to be complicated. And when you were younger, did you go to school? Yes. Where did you attend school? I went, I went a lot of different school. Okay, where are all the schools you went to?

I don't recall all over. Just tell me some of them. I only know when, Slater. Slater. Is that elementary school or middle school? Elementary. While you don't remember what middle school you went to, did you go to middle school? I think I did.

How long did you go to, did you finish middle school? Relatives. Overruled. Yeah, I think. Okay. Did you go to that? high school at all. Yeah.

All right. By the way, let me give you some context here. According to the prosecution back in 2015, several of the YSL defendants were involved in the murder of Donovan Thomas, also known as Big Nut, an alleged rival gang member. Now Shannon Stillwell and Diamante Kendrick, two of Williams co-defendants in this trial, they have been charged in connection with the shooting, and Williams himself is accused of renting the car that was used in that alleged. murder. The prosecution, they needed Copeland to confirm that he knew these men, but even that

was like pulling teeth. Can you take a moment and look at those pictures? Please look at those pictures. Yes. Yes. I'm going to start first with Stacey's exhibit 350 Yankees. Tell me if you recognize individual Stacy's at the 350 Yankee. I recognize myself. Okay.

Do you recognize anybody else in 350 Yankees? Myself. Do you recognize anyone else in 350 Yankees? They face is covered up. Okay. Do you see someone face who's not covered them in 350 Yankee? Yeah. Okay.

Do you recognize who that person is? I can hardly tell. Okay. Is that Shannon Jackson? Your Honor, at this point in time, I'm turning to impeachment. Do you know someone by the name of the Megianne Garlington? Screet name. Little D. For sure.

How do you know Little D? I didn't have birthed him. I'm sorry, say it again. I almost birthed him. You almost birthed him? Yeah. Tell the jury what do you mean by that? I mean he my son.

Okay. And let me ask you this. Do you know another person who's referenced as Little D? What you mean? Do you know someone who's called Little D from Cleveland? Oh, I heard of him. You heard of him. Okay, we'll talk about him in the moment. Say what now?

Tell me who you recognize in 380 Yankee. Oh, me and Coco. Who's Coco? The ugly boy right here. Okay. And the prosecution also needed to connect Copeland with Williams himself. So they tried to get Copeland to give evidence of their friendship, but Copeland appeared hesitant. My question is, when he was not in the studio,

and you hung out with him, where would you hang out with him at? We used to do fun stuff, like, go to, like, bowling and stuff and stuff like that. He went to the kids football game, I remember. I've been to the club with them. I've been on shows, I mean, you correct? You said, on shows? Yeah, like, I watch him perform. All right.

Now, Mr. Copeland and his testimony, or lack thereof, and had a bit of a ripple effect. Why do I say that? I say that because according to Williams' lead defense attorney, Brian Steele, he was told that the judge, the prosecution team, Copeland, and a stand-in attorney for Copeland were all part of an ex-part-day meeting, which is when they meet secretly in the judge's chambers, one-on-one with the judge. The defense is not present.

And the defense argued that this was highly improper to have a private meeting with a sworn witness when they had no idea this was going on, especially when some of what Copeland allegedly said, namely that he would confess to being responsible for the murder of Thomas or that the judge and prosecutor allegedly pressured him in that meeting to testify or face jail time. The defense said that that information we should have been privy to. Now, Judge Earl Glanville only wanted to know one thing from Brian Steele. How did you find out about this? How did you find out about this meeting?

Steele wouldn't give up his information. He wouldn't give up his source. He cited privilege that doing so would violate the Georgia Bar rules. and so an angry Judge Glanville held him in contempt of court. He originally was supposed to report to jail this weekend to begin a 20-day stint over the next 10 weekends, but he was granted a reprieve by the Georgia Supreme Court, and he won't have to go at least for now. We actually did a whole sidebar episode on this with some really great insight from Ben Shue,

the lawyer for Johnny Depp during his defamation case. I encourage everybody to check that out if you want to learn a little bit more about this issue. But back to Kenneth Copeland. Caleb Bumpus was the stand-in counsel for Copeland's regular attorney who had gone out of town. And the allegation has surfaced, and based on Judge Glanville's statements in court, he seems to suggest that she may have been the one who told Brian Steele about this ex parte meeting. Now, she and Copeland will have to appear at a show-cause hearing in a couple of weeks to determine if they should be held in contempt of court.

Well, after all of this chaos surrounding the ex-partate hearing, meeting, Copeland decided he didn't want Ms. Bumpus to represent him anymore. Sir, Mr. Copeland, is it your desire to release your counsel at this point in time? She's fired. She's fired? Okay. But according to Ms. Bumpus, she had already been fired before Copeland even testified. As you can see, this trial has been one surprise after the next.

So now let's go back into Copeland's actual testimony. Assistant District Attorney Simone Hilton asked him to elaborate on the information that he had given to investigators during that interrogation in 2021 that I had mentioned. At the time, Copeland, a convicted felon, had been found with a gun during a traffic stop and he was facing a 10-year sentence, but instead told the detectives about past crimes and crimes that he said were going to happen. The video, as I mentioned, was leaked online, and in it, Copeland also, talks about Jeffrey Lamar Williams and how he would be willing to help get a confession from him.

But a frustrated Copeland told Hilton he just told the investigators what they wanted to hear. Did you tell myself and my colleagues Ms. Love and others about Little Dee and Shannon Bean and to be pulled in the night of her. Huh? Yesterday, did you tell myself, Ms. Love and a few of my other colleagues, that Little Dee and Shannon were in the car with you

the night of the murder of the Amazon I told you and them dead what I told investigators

and June when Nutt got killed something different because I was trying to finish me we're out of a situation. So I said, I picked up Dee and Shannon. Dee never told me nothing. I made it up to clear myself up. And that's it. And was that yasker that you said that? Did you tell us that yesterday, what you just said?

me to be truthful. And I didn't, and I told you what I told the investigator back then wasn't me being truthful. So I'm telling you something that I didn't tell them because I ain't trying to go back to jail. I got it. If I asked you what yesterday, the first time you said this part and now what you're saying today is what is truthful. What you're saying right now, what you're trying to sell the jury right now is what you are now saying is truthful. What I'm trying to tell you is our conversation was about something that I said in the past. I understand. I'm asking you and ask that Mr. Copeland allowed to finish this. Okay, all right.

Mr. Copeland, do you need to finish your answers? No, I need a break, John. Say again? I need a break. If you're a Godfather Part 2 fan, by the way, it's very very, it's very. very frank pantangially. Michael Corleone did this. Michael Corleone did that.

Sure, why not? By the way, if you're a fan of the movie, honestly, that's not a bad impression. I encourage everybody to tell me otherwise. But anyway, so Copeland, let's go back to him, he says he doesn't remember much of what happened in that interrogation. Do you recall what thugs said in 2015 to Cal?

Yes. Yes, you remember what Thug said? I don't recall what was it. I don't remember what was it. I don't remember me talking to the investigators about it. All right. Do you remember telling Detective Gather that when Kel got on the phone

that Thug said the beef ain't over with until you pay for my window, you shot my window? Yes. Yes, you remember telling Detective Gather that? I don't remember what I don't told the police. Let me ask you this. Are you just saying yes now to speed up your question?

Most definitely. Okay. Are you saying yes, that's what you told Detective Gather? I know, I know I ain't complete school, but I think I'm speaking proper English. I told you, I don't recall nothing. I said to no polices. You keep sitting right here asking me the same question over and over and over and over and over and over. I'm drained.

Okay. Well, if you just answer the questions, probably, I don't answer the question. You asked me, I said yes, yes. When I say yes, you ask me the same question over and over and over and over and over. But did you just tell the court and this jury that you're saying yes, just to move the process along? I think I said that loud and clear. So again, will you just answer the questions

and we can move the process along? You keep asking, okay, yes. And while his answers were not quite what prosecutor Hilton seemed to be looking for, from a viewer perspective, you really couldn't look away. Did Thug ever speak with you about his relationship with Nutt? No. Did you ever observe Thug and Nutt

together? I never saw those two together. I never been around those two together. It never crossed my mind. So how were you able to tell Detective Gaither that nut and thug was cool? Because they're questioning me and I'm trying to get them out from me and he asked me questions about nut and thug I guess and I'm telling her whatever she, she asked me, let's say she asked me a question about this guy. I'm going to say, yeah, I seen the sky. It's blue. Whatever she asked me, I'm going to say, I'm going to agree to that. I'm going to say whatever she asked me.

She asked me about this reporter right here. I'm going to say, yep, she's sitting outside me with white tennis shoes on. I'm going to say something. Because I want her to believe I'm telling them the truth. I want her to get me out of jail. What she has on white tennis shoe, don't she? Don't you got on white tennis shoe? She got on chucks.

Right, and they're white, right? What color issue is? She's on chucks. So you're telling the truth. What color is your shoes here? She said they're white. Right, so you're telling the truth then? Well, it depends.

So yes, Mr. Copeland is certainly one of the more entertaining characters that we've encountered during the course of this incredible trial, which is expected to last much, much, much longer. Just, as I said, jury selection alone took almost a year, and the prosecution is the only partway through its list of witnesses, and we haven't even gotten to the defense's case for the six defendants. But before we go, we want to leave you with another few quips from Kenneth Copeland during this week on the stand. I can recall 2014. I've been in jail so much. So once you heard the pop, pop, pop, do you remember what happened next? Yeah, I turned the radio down to see what was I tripping. Okay. And once you turned the radio down to see if you were tripping,

What do you remember happening next? Bullies hit my car. I don't remember no. I don't remember no. I don't remember. I don't know what I don't know. So you're saying you don't remember? And after court on Thursday, Mr. Copeland allegedly posted this on Instagram, job.

I'd seen on your application. You said you never went to jail. Me? Correct. I never went to jail. I was taken. Copeland is going to be back in the hot seat once again on Friday. And, of course, we will have a lot of the cross-examination. So we'll be seeing more of Lil Woody in the days to come.

That's all we have for you right now here on Sidebar. Everybody, thank you so much for watching. Thank you so much for tuning in. Please subscribe on Apple Podcast, Spotify, YouTube, wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jesse Weber. I'll speak to you next time. You can binge all episodes of this long crime series ad free right now on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.