Law&Crime Sidebar - 11 Key Moments from ‘Doomsday Cult’ Mom Lori Vallow Daybell’s Triple Murder Trial — Week Two

Episode Date: April 21, 2023

Lori Vallow Daybell’s triple murder trial continued this week with shocking testimony from former friends of the “Doomsday cult” mom, her son Colby Ryan, law enforcement, and more. Daybell stands accused of murdering her two children, J.J. Vallow and Tylee Ryan, along with conspiracy to murder “prophet” Chad Daybell’s late wife, Tammy Daybell. The Law&Crime Network’s Jesse Weber breaks down eleven key moments from the trial this week.PLEASE SUPPORT THE SHOW:Save 10% on your entire POM Pepper Spray order by using code LAWCRIME10 at http://bit.ly/3IGNFxvLAW&CRIME SIDEBAR PRODUCTION:YouTube Management - Bobby SzokePodcasting - Sam GoldbergWriting & Video Editing - Michael DeiningerGuest Booking - Alyssa FisherSocial Media Management - Vanessa Bein & Kiera BronsonSUBSCRIBE TO OUR OTHER PODCASTS:Court JunkieObjectionsThey Walk Among AmericaCoptales and CocktailsThe Disturbing TruthSpeaking FreelyLAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandcrime/Twitter: https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetworkFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawandcrimeTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lawandcrimenetworkTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lawandcrimeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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keep you on the edge of your seat. Don't let your fears take hold of you as you dive into this addictive series. Love thrillers with a paranormal twist? The entire Oracle trilogy is available on Audible. Listen now on Audible. You have no idea of much pain. I have sucked in my body. I feel like I could die. My own mom. Week two of the Lori Valo-Debel trial has wrapped up. And what a week it has been. From a chilling jailhouse call with the doomsday cult mom to wild admissions, we break down some of the major moments. Welcome to Sidebar, presented by Law and Crime.

I'm Jesse Weber. I have covered a lot of stories at Law and Crime. And if there's one thing I can tell you throughout all of them, it is that you have to stay safe. And that is where Palm Pepper Spray can really help. This is a discreet, but powerful personal defense tool. Palm Pepper Spray shoots up to 12 feet using the strongest legal formula of pepper spray. It is super safe.

It is easy to use. It is ready to fire. All you got to do is just point and spray. The best part, we got a promo code for you. You can save 10% by using code law crime 10 at Palmpeperspray.com. And always remember to call 911 if you see somebody in trouble. Well, week two of the Lori Valo Daybell trial has wrapped up. And if you think about what this jury has heard, a jury that by all accounts really hadn't

known about any of these details beforehand, you have to wonder, what are they thinking right now? Now, of course, the question is, has the prosecution presented enough evidence as of right now to convict Lori Valo-Daybel? That's going to be up to the jury to ultimately decide. A little quick background before we get into this. Remember, this is the story of the 49-year-old doomsday mother on trial for first-degree murder and conspiracy to commit murder charges in connection with the deaths of her children,

seven-year-old J.J. Valo and 16-year-old Tiley Ryan. Their bodies found on the property of her current husband, Chad Daybell. He actually faces similar charges. He's going to be tried separately at a later date. But Lori Valo Daybell's trouble really doesn't end there because she is also charged with conspiracy to commit murder and the death of Chad's now deceased wife, Tammy Daybell. You see, originally, Tammy's death was thought to be from natural causes that she died in her sleep. But when the kids' bodies were found and her body was exhumed, authorities realized

something else was going on here. And prosecutors explained that she actually died from asphyxiation at the hands of another. So as I said, on our week one recap, the jury heard a lot. And the same goes for week two. Week one ended with the testimony of Zulema Pestanis. This is the widow of Lori Vallow's deceased brother Alex Cox, a man whom prosecutors claim was part of the plot to kill these victims. In fact, I think the evidence would suggest he maybe have been the person to actually carry out the murders. Well, if you recall, Zulema testified that Lori told her, JJ was going to have a short life. This is before he's killed, that Lori insinuated Tammy Daybell died because she and Chad received instructions on how to cast demons out.

Zlema said that Alex told her he was afraid he was going to be Lori and Chad's fall guy. She even said on the night someone tried to shoot Tammy Daybell. Yeah, someone tried to shoot Tammy Daybell. She survived. Zulema says that she overheard an angry Lori on the phone saying, Idiot can't do anything right by himself, maybe in reference to Alex Cox. On cross-examination, the defense's angle was to push on her credibility. Is she really somebody you can believe because she's got some wild beliefs and perceptions as well?

Now, at the beginning of this week, week two, the defense questioned her about the day her husband, Alex Cox, died. The fact that I went to work early on December 12, and Alex was fine, and when I came home, Alex was laying on the floor with my bathroom dead. And then the paramedics came, and they started working on him, and then they took him to the hospital, to the emergency room, and they worked on him for, about an hour and they brought me back into the room where he was connected to machines and they were doing CPR on him and then after many efforts to revive him. I had to give the okay to have the machines turned off. That is very traumatic, sir. Right, and I understand that.

I'm not trying to be callous or anything. And I said, other than the death of Alex Cox, was there anything else that was traumatic during that time? That's all I was getting at. Was there anything traumatic that happened to you between your wedding and your and when Alex passed away? No, that I can recall. Okay.

Now, Alex Cox is just one of the deaths in this case. He died from seemingly natural causes, blood clots, although the timing of that's a bit strange. And one thing we haven't really touched on is how quickly all of these people related in this case died. So Charles Valla was the first to die on July 11, 2019. Just two months later, J.J. Valo and Tiley Ryan go missing in September. Chad Daybell's former wife, Tammy Daybell, died a month after that on October 19, 2019.

And then Alex Cox, two months after that, on December 12th, 2019, he dies. So within five months, five people close to Lori Vallow Daybell died. As I mentioned, Alex Cox's death was determined to be from natural causes, even though his comments seemed to suggest that he was foreshadowing something would happen to him. but the other four people were anything but natural deaths and I don't know about you but it seems pretty fishy to me and I wonder what the jury could be thinking if all of these deaths have occurred

and for Lori Valo Debel not to be involved in any way let's talk about what them let's go back to Charles Val so he was the first death in this twisted case which occurred in Arizona and he was shot to death by Alex Cox in what was initially determined to be self-defense the claim was that Charles came at Alex with a bat hit Alex, and then Alex opened fire.

Is that the truth, though? Chandler Police Sergeant Nathan Moffitt actually testified that there was a small laceration on the back of Cox's head, but it wasn't consistent with being hit extremely hard in the back of the head with a baseball bat by an athletic man. Moffat also testified that the evidence showed that Charles was on the floor when he was shot. And by the way, the jury in this trial is not going to decide

if Lori is guilty of conspiracy to commit murder of Charles Vallow. She is separately charged with that in Arizona. This jury is hearing the Charles Vallow evidence as part of what I believe is a common scheme or plan of Lori and Chad and Alex. That when anyone got in their way, this is what they did. They got rid of them.

Anyway, here is firefighter, Scott Cowden, explaining the day that he responded to the shooting of Charles Vallow. When you responded out on July 11th, where initially did you respond to we responded to a residential house for a gunshot wound or gunshot victim did you enter the residence when you initially responded yes and when you entered the residence did you locate the individual that had been shot yes what did you observe regarding that individual we were led into the house by a channeled police officer were on scene before us. And when you went into that front door, that entry room is where

we found Charles laying on the ground, on the floor, on his back, and he appeared to be unconscious as you approached him. And when you say Charles, did you learn his last name? Charles Valo, we did. My captain on the crew was documenting the call. He would have been communicating with the Chandler officers who were communicating with other individuals on the scene. That would be to supply that information and you eventually learned his identity as well yes cowden actually attempted to perform CPR but there was no luck in saving charles valo and then we heard from arizona detective cassandra inclin who investigated charles death as if this case wasn't bizarre enough we learned some key pieces of information like how after charles was killed lorry claims she took j j to burger king

and then took him to school until finally returning back to the house. Now, that timeline of events has also been questioned as well, but just think about that for a second. And there's also no evidence that Lori called 911 after Charles was killed, but apparently she told Alex Cox to call 911, which he didn't do until over 40 minutes after the shooting. And by the way, the evidence also seemed to establish that Lori may have taken Charles' phone with her to that morning. So back to Detective Inclan, she observed Lori to have some questionable behavior after Charles died. Do you recall what Ms. Vallow's reaction was? I do.

And what was that? She didn't have much of a reaction. When she was informed that Charles was deceased, she had responded that she already knew and made statements that she was present when it had happened, which. was new information to detectives and didn't really appear to have much of a reaction. So Lori seems to be acting as if her husband dying isn't a big deal, or at least it seems that way. Now, I'll tell you, the defense tried to suggest, and what we've heard in other cases before,

is it really fair to judge someone's reactions after a traumatic moment like that? Okay. What we did hear in some later testimony that, months prior to Charles' death, Lori claimed he was already dead. We'll get to that in a minute. So after Charles is killed, Lori packs up, her and the kids, they leave Arizona, they move to Idaho, and this is only the bizarre timing of events, as we know that Lori and Chad would eventually get married, just less than a month after Chad's former wife Tammy Daybell was killed. The timeline of events in this case is wild. It really doesn't look good for Lori Valadebel's case.

but some of the biggest testimony from the second week of trial came from Lori's 27-year-old surviving son from a previous relationship, Colby Ryan. And I will tell you this was some of the most heartbreaking testimony. Maybe I shouldn't even say testimony because really it was this recorded phone call between Colby and his mother, Lori, while she was locked up in jail. Listen to him confront his mother about the death of his siblings. You think you can hide for me?

I used to comment. Probably because you were my siblings. I'm going to make judgments when you aren't there and you don't know what happened. What happened? They're not making their own judgments. Mom, you've been shoving the ass on my throat for a very long time. I'm going to talk to you. You can be mad.

You can be mad. Hey, listen to me. I'm not mad. Fine, listen to me, I've sat there and prayed, I can't tell you the amount of pain that I have felt from your decisions. What did you tell me? What lies would you be? Why would you lie to me if you were so, if you're in myth of the Lord, and you've seen it? And I'm just talking purely to you.

If you've seen Jesus Christ, where is it here? Why would you tell me something? Why are you afraid? Why is everyone it's you? Why is everything to be able to all? One day, we will all stand there with Jesus. We will all stand there with Jesus and you will know the truth of everything. Not for me.

I mean, this is devastated. You can hear the pain in his voice, but you can also hear Lori be indignant, you know, not giving him the answers, polluting these weird religious connotations. And from a legal point of view, if she felt justified, why not come clean and tell the truth about what happened? An argument could be made that she knows she's in trouble with authorities and she doesn't want to admit anything that would incriminate her. This is called consciousness of guilt. The counter argument is that maybe she didn't know what happened and she was kept in the dark about everything. But I mean, is that true?

We really haven't seen a lot of evidence of that. That phone call sure makes Lori seem like a terrible mother in person. And so on cross-examination of Colby, Ryan, her attorney Jim Archibald, focused on showcasing that Lori was a good person, a good mother, tried to humanize her in a way. Did your mother, Lori, help you and Tiley with thoughts of lack of self-worth? Yes. Was your mother supportive of your decision to go on a mission and then to come home from a mission? Yes. Did she teach you about zombies?

No. Did she teach you about casting out evil spirits? No. You never once thought your mom would hurt someone. Is that fair to say? Yes. Did you love your mom? Yes.

Did she love you? I think so. All right, so moving on to more of what happened in week two of the Lori Valo-Daybell trial. Last week, we heard testimony from Lori's, former close friend Melanie Gibb. And this week, we got to hear the testimony of Lori's other former friend, April Raymond, whom Lori befriended when she and Charles Vallow lived in Hawaii for a period of time. Now, after Lori and Charles moved to Arizona,

Lori and Tiley made a sudden visit to Hawaii where April Raymond learned more about what was going through Lori's mind. Did she talk to you about what was going on in her home in Arizona? Yes, she said that a lot. had changed. She said that her and Charles were going to be getting divorced. That Charles had had an affair. And then the conversation changed to where Charles wasn't Charles. Charles was a demon named Ned Snyder. And the conversation just kind of evolved from there.

Okay. So there's a lot in that answer. So let me make sure I understand. You had a conversation that they were getting separated or they were divorcing? Initially, yes. Okay. Now, who was visiting with Lori Vallow when she was at your home at this time? Tiley was brought here. Where was JJ? JJ was with Charles, was my understanding.

Okay. And did the defendant say why she didn't bring JJ? She said that she was done with JJ and that Charles and his sister Kay would need to figure it out. Okay. And what did you understand that meant, done what JJ meant? Taken into the context of she's going through a divorce, I took it to mean that if they went through a divorce that Tiley would go with Lori and Charles would take on the responsibility

of JJ exclusively, was my understanding. Okay. And during this, you also mentioned that she talked about that Charles was no longer Charles? Yes. What did she say about that? In terms of... When she said Charles was no longer Charles,

how was that connected to her talking about separating from Charles? Sure. So she had said that Charles was already dead and that there was a demon living inside him and kind of using his body as a host. and that the demon's name was Ned Snyder. Did you follow up on that? Did she give you any sort of evidence of this?

When I asked, how do you know that it's not Charles? She said because he's shorter. First of all, if you're shorter, you're a demon, I got to say I'm a bit insulted by that. Not going to lie. Not going to lie. But more importantly, Lori was done with JJ. Charles was a demon named Ned Snyder.

Again, another friend of Lori is testifying about her wild beliefs about demons and zombies. Raymond would also testify that Lori tried to actually recruit her to a religious cult and that she would leave her family. Look, this is all important for the prosecution because they're saying that these religious beliefs provided Lori the justification to murder. And according to April, Lori said that Charles Valo was already dead. and this was five months before Charles was shot and killed by Lori's brother. So the talk about demon, zombies, Lori's beliefs, it's a recurring theme in this trial, the odd incriminating statements, the behaviors of Lori Valadevo. All of this could ultimately be her downfall.

Could a jury ultimately convict her based on the statement so the actions of her? Sure. But is it enough to prove beyond the reasonable doubt that she murdered the kids or conspired to kill Tammy? Maybe the jury is looking for some cold, hard evidence. This is a circumstantial evidence case, but that brings me to Rexburg Police Department Detective Chuck Kinsatus, who took the stand in week two. He testified about a Venmo payment being sent from Tiley Ryan's phone after she went missing. What is significant about this document that aided your investigation?

Well, we learned that Tiley's Venmo account was used and an IP address associated with with it was was documented so we followed up on that and we learned that the IP address was through the windstream communications and when we contacted them they say that yes they are in charge of issuing IP addresses through their communications company and the IP address specifically was issued to the residents in airport in Kansas City, Missouri. Okay. And why was that important for you to know?

Well, on October 10th of 2019, this, the $100 Venmo transaction was made, and we know through flight records that Lori accompanied her niece, Melanie Boudreau, Polowski from Phoenix to Kansas City, Missouri. to visit friends, and the transaction was made through using Tiley's phone from the information we had. Does this document show those transactions? It does. Can you go to that page?

What does this document show? These are recorded. VIMO transactions to Talley Ryan's account. Made from that IP address that you were discussing? Yes. On 1010, the third row down shows $100 sent to Kobe Ryan with the message, We Love You. And there's the IP address there that is the same IP address

that we were able to validate from Kansas City, Missouri, So a payment was made from Tiley Ryan's phone on October 10th, 2019, which is about a month after she went missing. And the money was sent to Lori's other son, Colby Ryan. Was this Lori just trying to make it seem that Tiley was alive? While forensic accountant Michael Douglas took the stand next and testified about some questionable payments from Tiley Ryan after her death. And you have mentioned this, but what date were Chad and Lori married? November 5th of 19. And can you tell me how many payments were received into Lori Vallos' compass account on behalf of Tiley Ryan after her death?

Four. And what was the amount of the Social Security payment for each month that was received for Tiley Ryan? So in October, October through December of 19, she received 1,859 a month. In January of 20, she received 1888. And what's the total amount of those payments? The total being $7,465. Okay. And how many monthly payments were there for JJ?

Four. And what was the Social Security payment for each month that was received for J.J. Valo? October through December of 19, it was 1951 a month, and January of 20, it was 1882. and what was the total amount of those payments the 78 35 and how many payments did lorry receive for caregiver benefits she received four and what was the total amount of those payments the total amount would be the 3902 and the 3343.05 okay how many payments did lorry receive after she was married to chad Two. And what is the total amount of those payments?

The 33-405. And what is the total amount of the Social Security payments that Lori Valo received from October 19th, or excuse me, October 2019 until February 2020? That would be the $22,5.5. And that is believed to be after the deaths of JJ and entirely correct? Yes, ma'am. And is that on that document? it is so if this was lorry she seemingly was sending money from her dead daughter's bank account to hers and that's the main allegation from the prosecution that lorry conspired to kill the kids

and ultimately did kill them large part to receive the benefits of social security payments this week it was also shown that chad's spending habits changed after tammy daybell's death since he was the beneficiary of his wife's life insurance policy sending money to his children a family trip you get the idea now not to mention that the jury heard about an email this week that was sent by Chad to a realtor in Hawaii after the kids disappeared after Tammy dies, after he and Lori get married. The email says, quote, we are interested in seeing this property. Would the owners be interested in leasing this property to a couple with no pets or children?

I've said it before. There's been no smoking gun in this case. There's no forensic, not a ton of forensic evidence tying Lori Valadebel to committing any of these murders, no recorded conversations talking about killing anyone. But all of this about the money transfers and the comments and timeline, it's all so questionable. Moving on, about a month after Charles Vallow's death, David Warwick, Melanie Gibbs' husband, remember she used to be Lori's best friend, testified against her, basically said Lori asked her to lie to the police about JJ's whereabouts. Anyway, David Warwick visited Lori and Chad in Idaho in late September around the time that JJ was last seen.

And when he visited Lori and Chad in Idaho, he asked Chad about his wife, Tammy Daybell. During the times you saw Chad was, what was his interactions like with Lori Valo? They were very loving with one another and affectionate. Now, at this time, were you aware that he was still married to Tammy Daybell? Yes. Okay. Did that, the fact that he was married, come? come up at all? Yes.

All right. How did that happen? I asked him about the I just asked him how his marriage was with the Tammy and if she was a good wife and he said he had no complaints that she was a good wife but he said her time was her time was coming up

and that her and him and Loy were going to go do the things that they committed to do for God. Okay. So when you say her time was coming up, Tammy's time was... He said he had a dream that she was going to pass away before he was 50

or by the time he was 50. Okay. And so that was Tammy was going to pass away before Chad was 50? Yeah, by the time Chad was 50. Okay. The dream was like, I think he said, three years previous. Okay. And then he said he and Lori were going to be together.

What did that mean? that they were going to get married and they were going to go do their calling. So about a month after this conversation that David Warwick had with Chad Daybell, Tammy Daybell dies. Chad was right about Tammy, but as we now know, Tammy's death is no longer ruled a death by natural causes. She was killed by asphyxiation at the hands of another. And remember, for Lori, she's charged with conspiracy to commit the murder of Tammy. As long as the jury finds that there was an agreement to kill Tammy, if any of those co-conspirators, meaning Chad, an overt step in furtherance of that plot, then they all could be found guilty of conspiracy.

So again, just another instance with the behavior and conversations of Lori and chat are highly questionable relating to the timeline of all these deaths. Now, something that we're starting to see in this trial that is similar to the Alec Murdoch trial is the collection of lies, right? So Sidney Shank took the stand. This was JJ's babysitter. Listen to what Lori told her about Charles's death when meeting her first. the job.

While you were there, did she say anything about her husband, Charles Vallow? She did. She had mentioned that he had just recently died of a heart attack, and that JJ was kind of having a hard time, like, understanding why it happened. Now, maybe she lied about her husband being shot and killed so she wouldn't scare away the potential babysitter. Maybe. back to David Warwick, listen to what Lori told him when he visited her in Chad and Idaho.

While you were, when you got there, did you see Tiley Ryan there at all? No. Did you ever see Tyler Ryan that weekend? No, I never did. I did see her. I never did meet her. Okay. Were you told where she was? I was told that she was attending Rexburg, Idaho College, and she wanted to be independent. Okay. And who told you that? I think it was Melanie told me. If I remember, Melanie asked Lori in front of me. So David met JJ that day, but not Tiley Ryan. This is about two weeks since the last time Tiley was seen alive. And by the way, we learned that Lori was lying about Tiley going to college when a detective testified as well. Did you look into whether Tiley Ryan ever enrolled at B.Y.U. Yes. Did you find any evidence to find that

Tyler Ryan enrolled at BYU? No. Also, I should mention that JJ's elementary school received an email from Lori in September 2019. The jury learned about that this week. And this is again, when we think the kids were killed. And in this email, she said that JJ was being taken out of the school, that he was being sent to Louisiana to be with his grandparents, that he would be homeschooled, homeschooled, and then the school never heard anything from Lori again. And we know that is not true. That is not what happened to JJ. Okay, he wasn't sent anywhere.

Oh, and Lori also apparently told law enforcement at one point that Chad was just her brother's friend. I mean, we know that he was a lot more than just Alex Cox's friend. So basically what I'm trying to say is Lori allegedly lied to multiple people, including the police. And as I mentioned, they asked her friend Melanie Gibb to lie. about JJ's whereabouts. The question is why? If she is innocent and didn't know anything that was going on here, why would she lie? Why would she ask someone to lie?

The prosecution is continuing to build a circumstantial evidence case against Lori Valladaybill. Some of this week's evidence seems pretty strong in my mind, but that doesn't necessarily mean that there is enough to convict her beyond a reasonable doubt. In the end, it's going to be up to a jury to decide that, but we still have to have a lot of case left. That's all we have for you here on Sidebar, everybody. Thank you so much for joining us. Please subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, wherever you get your podcast. I'm Jesse Weber. I'll speak to you next time. or Spotify.