Law&Crime Sidebar - 200+ Women Accuse Utah Doctor of Sexually Assaulting Them at OB/GYN Appointments

Episode Date: September 7, 2024

Hundreds of women are part of a lawsuit against Dr. David Broadbent, a gynecologist who has allegedly abused patients at his Provo, Utah office for decades. The lawsuit was allowed to move forward after the state’s Supreme Court determined that “sexual assault is not health care” and does not qualify for a medical malpractice claim. Law&Crime’s Elizabeth Millner spoke with the attorney behind the civil suit, Adam Sorenson, and one of the alleged victims, Brooke Heath.PLEASE SUPPORT THE SHOW: If you’re ever injured in an accident, you can check out Morgan & Morgan. You can submit a claim in 8 clicks or less without having to leave your couch. To start your claim, visit: https://www.forthepeople.com/LCSidebarGUEST HOST:Elizabeth Millner https://x.com/_emillnerLAW&CRIME SIDEBAR PRODUCTION:YouTube Management - Bobby SzokeVideo Editing - Michael Deininger and Christina FalconeScript Writing & Producing - Savannah WilliamsonGuest Booking - Alyssa Fisher & Diane KayeSocial Media Management - Vanessa BeinSTAY UP-TO-DATE WITH THE LAW&CRIME NETWORK:Watch Law&Crime Network on YouTubeTV: https://bit.ly/3td2e3yWhere To Watch Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3akxLK5Sign Up For Law&Crime's Daily Newsletter: https://bit.ly/LawandCrimeNewsletterRead Fascinating Articles From Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3td2IqoLAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandcrime/Twitter: https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetworkFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawandcrimeTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lawandcrimenetworkTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lawandcrimeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can binge all episodes of this Law and Crimes series ad-free right now. Join Wondry Plus in the Wondery app Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Agent Nate Russo returns in Oracle 3, Murder at the Grandview, the latest installment of the gripping Audible Original series. When a reunion at an abandoned island hotel turns deadly, Russo must untangle accident from murder. But beware, something sinister lurks in the grand. views shadows. Joshua Jackson delivers a bone-chilling performance in this supernatural thriller that

will keep you on the edge of your seat. Don't let your fears take hold of you as you dive into this addictive series. Love thrillers with a paranormal twist? The entire Oracle trilogy is available on Audible. Listen now on Audible. Hundreds of women say a former doctor in Utah sexually assaulted them during routine exams. The attorneys behind a civil lawsuit compare him to sexual predators like Larry Nassar and say a Utah court's decision to overturn a dismissal of the legal action means victims are one step closer to justice. We're breaking down the latest information with one of the attorneys as well as one of the doctors alleged victims. Welcome to Sidebar presented by law and crime. I'm Elizabeth Milner. Dr. David Broadbrent is a former OBGYN in

Provo, Utah. At first, just four women came forward to accuse Broadbent of sexual conduct. But that number ballooned to 94 in 2022. That's when attorneys filed a civil lawsuit against Broadbent and two hospitals where he had worked at. The plaintiffs alleged that the now 77-year-old Broadbent had sexually abused women for four decades, often preying on younger women attending Brigham Young University in Provo, and who were perhaps visiting a gynecologist for the first time. In fact, the office where Broadbent had practiced since the 1980s was located just one block. from the BYU freshman dorms and in the middle of several apartment complexes.

The accusations came to light when one of Broadbent's alleged victims spoke on the Mormon stories podcast in 2021. Other women who had similar experiences contacted the law firm to share their stories as well. But things took a turn legally when a judge throughout the case, claiming it was incorrectly filed as a civil sexual assault claim when it should have been a medical malpractice case. The legal team took that decision to the Utah Supreme Court who overturned it. We got our hands on the Supreme Court opinion. It says, quote, we agree with the plaintiffs that their claims are not covered by the Mal Practice Act. The Act applies to any male practice action against a health care provider. It defines a male practice action as any action against

a health care provider based upon alleged personal injuries relating to or arising out of health care rendered by the healthcare provider. Here, the plaintiffs do not allege they were injured by any health care that Broadbent may have provided them. Rather, they allege that he abused his position as their doctor to sexually assault them under the pretense of providing health care. The point of their claims is that his actions were not really health care at all. And the fact that Broadbent committed the alleged sexual assaults during medical appointments or examinations does not bring that conduct within the Malpractice Act's definition of health care, because the plaintiffs alleged Broadbent's abusive conduct had no medical purpose and was outside

the scope of any legitimate health care he provided them. After the higher court overturned the lawsuit's dismissal, more women have contacted the attorneys involved to add their names to the suit. The count now stands at more than 200 women. We want to go over now a few of the allegations in court documents. Some of the accounts of what happened to these alleged victims is too graphic to share here. And we do want to warn you what we are able to share concern sexual assault, sexual health, and miscarriage. The civil filing is more than 90 pages long, with stories from nearly 50 women. The start of the filing reads, quote, Dr. David H. Broadbent took advantage of his position, plaintiff's vulnerability, and that relationship of trust as he sexually battered and abused plaintiffs

and numerous other women over the course of four decades. None of the women are specifically named in the lawsuit. they are all called Jane Doe, followed by their initials. For example, Jane Doe H.P. saw Broadbent several times in 2020 and 2021. She now accuses him of touching her inappropriately in several ways, including sliding his hands under her shirt to fondle her breasts and using his fingers instead of gyneological equipment. She also shared a horrific story.

Jane Doe H.P. was later taken to the ultrasound room because there was a concern that she had a miscarriage. Broadbent started using. an external ultrasound, and as he searched for a heartbeat to confirm that a miscarriage occurred, said he could not find a heartbeat, continued to look, and then excitedly exclaimed, oh, here's a heartbeat. As Jane Doe H.P.'s hope rose, he then laughed and said, just kidding. It was your bladder. There is no baby. Another woman, Jane Doe, Ph. went to see Broadbent before her wedding. She says Broadbent asked her whether she was a virgin. When she confirmed she was,

Broadbent reportedly told her that because of her inexperienced, having sex was going to hurt. She claims he suddenly inserted his fingers into her without any warning. The lawsuit reads, quote, Jane Doe, Ph. left the appointment feeling ashamed, confused, and violated. Broadbent's office called Jane Doe Ph. a year later and asked her to come in for another visit to re-prescribe her birth control. She asked if there was any way to prescribe without coming in. They said no. So she did go in. PH has not been to an OBGYN since that appointment. Another victim gave an account of feeling violated at her first appointment with Broadbent.

So she brought her husband to the second appointment and claimed Broadbent acted annoyed, but still touched her inappropriately, even with her husband in the room. Multiple women reported that they told Broadbent they did not need or want pelvic exams, but say Broadbent or a nurse would just toss a gown their way and tell them to undress before leaving the room. And multiple women claim abuse happened in front of witnesses. One allegation comes from Jane Doe R.U who saw Broadbent for prenatal care. Jane Doe RU previously had a pap smear and knew that it would cause pain and discomfort. So she quickly reached for the nurse's hand and immediately asked Broadbent to wait a minute so she could relax her body. Broadbent

chuckled and said, oh, you need a minute to get ready to get assaulted? Then without waiting another second and with no consent, he proceeded to perform a vaginal exam. Jane Doe R.U was in pure shock and disbelief and turned to her left to see if the nurse had just heard what was said. The nurse clearly had, but instead of saying anything, she stayed silent and acted like Broadbent had not said a word. Jane Doe R.U froze in fear, realizing that her mom and boyfriend were sitting there and knew then that they too had witnessed what happened to her.

Jane Doe R. felt exposed and felt ashamed that she could not find the courage to speak up for herself and stop him. After what felt like hours, Broadbent finished, stood up, snapped his gloves off, threw them away, and exited the room. Another alleged victim saw Broadbent when she was pregnant with her twins. Her husband accompanied her to an appointment in 2015. According to the civil claim, quote, he then asked how she got pregnant with twins. And Jane Doe, K.H. explained they used fertility treatments to which Broadbent made a snarky comment about her husband's inability to conceive a child naturally. At later appointments, Broadbent felt Jane Doe Cage's belly

and made inappropriate comments about her weight. She eventually switched to another OBGN feeling violated and uncomfortable about her appointments with Broadbent. One of the alleged victims, Jane Doe A.G. was only 14 years old when she said Broadbent assaulted her during an appointment. Another said she believes Broadbent induced an abortion after he berated her and the father of her child for sinning and being bad examples. Jane Doe M.C. says she saw Broadbent for her first ever gynecological appointment in 2005. At the appointment, Jane Doe M.C. asked about birth control and Broadbent tried hard to talk her out of taking it, explaining that his wife and all but one of his daughters had never been on birth control, and that his daughter who did take birth control gained lots of weight and became mean.

and irritable to the point that the family did not like being around her. Broadbent then cautioned her that she was such a pretty girl, that he would hate to see her in the same situation. He then brought up how her fiancee would not like that. The lawsuit also names Intermountain Health Care or IHC as well as Mountain Star Healthcare as co-defendants. The suit states, quote, multiple formal and informal complaints were made of Broadbent's acts of sexual abuse, but neither IHC or Mountain Star properly responded. In fact, formal complaints made it all the way to the chief administrator and chief medical officer at Utah Valley Hospital, and yet, over a decade later, IHC was still referring

women to go see Broadbent at his private clinic. The owners of the hospitals have maintained that while Broadbent may have practiced at their facilities, he was never an actual employee. The lawsuit lists the causes of action as sexual battery, sexual assault, negligence supervision, fraudulent misrepresentation, joint venture, meaning the defendant's work together toward a common goal, intentional infliction of emotional distress, and negligent infliction of emotional distress. The stories we cover on sidebar and law and crime are very tough, and it shows the world

is so unpredictable. But if you're ever injured, there's a team that can be by your side, and that's Morgan and Morgan. They're America's largest personal injury law firm with a team of over 1,000 lawyers. And there's a reason they have so many lawyers on their team because they win a lot. In the past few months, Morgan and Morgan saw multiple multimillion. dollar verdicts, all of which were considerably higher than the highest insurance offer. And seeing if you have a case is super easy and can be done in eight clicks or less.

Plus, you don't even have to leave your couch to start a claim. And guess what? Their fee is $0 and $0.0. You only pay them if you win. So if you're injured, you can start by easily submitting a claim at www.4thepeople.com slash LC Sidebar or click the link in the description and pin comments. I'm joined now by one of the plaintiffs in the case. That's Brooke Heath, as well as her attorney, Adam Sorensen. Now, Brooke, I want to start with you first and ask how you're doing. I'm doing pretty well. I have had a chance to meet a lot of the other plaintiffs, and I feel, unfortunately, that maybe I'm one of the lesser scathed of the group.

I have a close friend who is really struggling with a lot of anxiety about the case and there's other women that are just really feeling depressed and this has triggered a lot of anxiety and so all things considered, I think I'm doing really well. And what was that like meeting with the other plaintiffs in the case other women who do share similar stories to you? it was in a weird way validating that my story wasn't something that I made up in my head or my mind but unfortunately the more women I met the more frustrating and angry I also got because I realized that my story wasn't an isolated event it it was one of many that had had

very similar situations. We were all in very vulnerable moments, and this doctor took advantage of that. And if you're comfortable sharing, what first brought you to Dr. Broadbent? Sure. I actually was seeing another doctor in a town about an hour and a half away. I was about 32 weeks gestation with my first child, and I went into premature labor. And so I was ambulance up. in a horrible snowstorm about an hour and a half away to Utah Valley Hospital. I was given to the doctor on call and that just happened to be Dr. Broadbent. He isn't someone that I had any connection with or had met any previous time. But because he was the doctor on call and I was in an emergent situation, he was assigned to me. And how old were you when you first met with him? I would be

27, I believe. But again, it was my first child. I wasn't clear on what was the norm. And I really thought at that moment that I was going to lose my baby. So I was in an especially vulnerable situation as well as emotionally, as well as not understanding what the normal standard or protocol was for someone in premature labor. And when did you know something wasn't right? I immediately knew that what happened wasn't normal. But the situation was that where I was in premature labor and we hadn't established that my child or my soon-to-be-born baby,

was in a healthy place, I didn't dare ask anyone and say is this standard or question anything because we were worried that it would impede my care and that of my child. So we decided not to question. However, there was a time when my husband had left to go to lunch. I was in this hospital for a week and he had left to go to lunch and the doctor came in and it was just the two of us and immediately I started having really strong contractions. I was worried that if he could do something to me in front of other men, then what would he do to me when it was just the two of us? And so when he finally left the room, one of the nurses that I felt comfortable with came in and I asked her if it was normal that this happened to me and her look was very surprised and

she asked if she could have her nurse manager come in. And I retold my story to the nurse manager and she told me that she would escalate it and that I could request a different doctor. So that indicated to me that it wasn't standard procedure, but at that time I still didn't understand that what he did to me was a criminal offense or it was something that I could go to the place about, I really just thought that it was a doctor that was unethical and inappropriate. And when did you tell your loved ones about what happened to you? And when did you ever feel comfortable going to authorities later on about what happened? Yeah. So my husband was in the room with me when it happened. And when he came back and I said,

I talked to a nurse about this, he was a little frustrated and said, I thought that we weren't going to tell anyone. What if these doctors don't give us care when our baby comes? We're never going to be able to forgive ourselves. But he was very supportive of my decision, especially since this has come to light, that this is not an isolated incident. And now looking back, we see all the red flags and we've replayed this, this scenario in our head so many times as to what my husband would have done differently and as to what I would have done differently. And I actually didn't even understand until this case came to light that what he did was a criminal offense. That at that, in that moment, I could have said, I want to file a police report or I do want to escalate this

to the leaders of this hospital. Incidentally, I actually did six years later discuss this with the administrator of the hospital and also the chief medical officer when I was employed for this health care system. And I really thought that it was something that I was doing, I was helping the hospital system by reporting this and escalating it.

but when I found out that all he had to do, the doctor had to do was sensitivity and aggression training, I gaslighted myself again thinking that was so dumb that I brought that up and I should have never said anything and now I'm so embarrassed, but it wasn't again until this case came to light that I realized that I could have talked to authorities about this or I could of press charges. At this point, I still haven't. I don't know why, but that's something that I am having an extra hard time with because I feel like due to the statutes that I might not be listened to or might not be heard. So at this point, I haven't talked to any legal authorities, but I have discussed this with hospital leadership. And nothing was

resolved from that. And how did that make you feel kind of not feeling any type of resolvement from what had happened to you? And knowing that you were put in this very vulnerable, uncomfortable, terrible position, all while what was supposed to be a joyous occasion, you're giving birth to your first child was supposed to happen. But then this horrible thing happened to you as well as other patients. How does that, I guess I'm trying to put that into words as far as like how you've been able to feel with all of those range of emotions kind of when I when I first started um when I first learned of this case I was still employed with Intermountain healthcare and I had so much faith in the organization that I worked for that I just

kept thinking they there was neglect on this but it definitely wasn't anything um bigger than that, but the more women that I hear had incidents very similar to mine at the hospital facilities, I get more frustrated because I learned that I'm realizing that they actually were aware. This wasn't something that someone just turned a blind eye to. This was something that was completely swept under the rug. And it's very frustrating to know that so many women could have avoided the situation altogether if these hospital authorities would have stepped in and taken away his credentials and not allowed him to practice at their hospital because there were many incidents in our case that happened at his clinic

that how many women would have gone to an OBGYN that doesn't have credentials at a local hospital that can't deliver babies so by allowing this doctor to continue to have credentials at their hospital system. They're allowing this to continue for years. And it's now been almost 16 years since this happened to me. And I think of all the many women who were injured as a result of their lack of action. And that is very frustrating. And I just want to confirm, were you a part of the first 94 patients that had sued Dr. Broadbent? Adam can confirm. I believe that I was among the first 10 or so. Yeah.

And how did you feel bringing about that lawsuit against him? So I originally found out about the first four through one of the news articles. And I actually didn't anticipate ever actually joining the lawsuit. I just thought my testimony and my experience about where I actually, spoke to the hospital leadership about this, that could be very helpful to these women in their case. And so the thought of actually entering in a lawsuit, that sounds really intimidating initially and nothing that I really considered being a part of, but I did know that I could help empower these women and support their efforts. So it wasn't something that I went into thinking,

I want to join this lawsuit, but when I realized that by joining I would be strengthening these women and others, it wasn't a difficult decision at all. And Adam, my next question is for you. Talk to me a little bit about when you first met Brooke. You know, I don't remember the first meeting. Right at the beginning of this case, there were a lot of phone calls. There are a lot of people reaching out. what I remember in hearing her story is a lot of the people that first reached out some of them had notified the hospital some hadn't we we knew that the hospital was on notice but not to what level and I just remember hearing Brooke's story and just as a lawyer hearing that the leader of the hospital knew about this almost a decade ago that the chief medical

officer at Utah Valley Hospital for Intermountain Health knew about this and some of the comments they made to her when she told them the story it it was shocking but it added a strength to our case which there's strength just in the number of people there's strength and there's you could bring this with one person we don't have to have 200 but the strength that adds on the legal side to have someone who said, hey, who told someone that high level in management, hey, this is what happened. It adds a factor of notice to the hospital that when they fail to act on it, it opens them up to liability. And, you know, doctors and teachers and nurses and people who are in these high regarded positions, it really is troubling to hear when something like this happens in that a trusted figure that you went to for kids,

does something terrible and horrible to this magnitude to hundreds and hundreds of patients. What is it like kind of bringing about a lawsuit of this magnitude against the hospital system and against a doctor? Well, I think on the first hand is it's necessary, one for the survivor, but two, the predator's bad, the sexual abuser is bad. We all agree. No one's going to debate that. But what we see is that at every stage like this, it doesn't matter if it's a teacher, a doctor, a priest, it can happen in any of large organization. What you see is this ecosystem of enabling in which this person, this abuser, is allowed to thrive because of the actions or inactions of the people around them, the looking the other way, the, let's just give them a peer reprimand, the, well, maybe if we just slap them, them on the wrist, the, what if we tell, what if we come out about this? Would it hurt the organization? And that idea we need to protect the organization over the patient or the

student or whoever it is. It's not just, I mean, there's a lot of amazing doctors, a lot of amazing teachers, a lot of amazing priests, whatever organization. But when that turns to protecting the organization, it enables abusers to continue abuse for years and years and decades and decades and changes it from someone who's going to abuse one or two people to someone who can abuse thousands. And that's what we see and why these lawsuits are so necessary, not just to call out and hopefully find justice against the person who abuse people, but to break apart and shut down these ecosystems of abuse. And Adam, it's our understanding that you'll be filing an amended complaint now that the case is back at the district level? Yeah. So,

So one of our next steps, we've got a couple of things to do. The case was just sent back down to the district court. And so one of our next step is to take all those individuals who have reached out and want to join the lawsuit since it was dismissed, so almost two years ago, all those people add their accounts, add them to the lawsuit. And then we essentially start from the starting line. We've kind of made our way all the way back to the start of a normal lawsuit as far as moving in after that into discovery and depositions and things like that.

And so, yeah, the next step, one of the next steps will be to add in all those people. And what difference does it make legally if this was considered to be a male practice suit rather than a civil sexual assault claim? That's a great question. I'm just a human level. It's a different level of affirmation for the people who are bringing a lawsuit. because you're not saying, hey, this was bad health care. You're saying this was abuse. You're saying what you felt was real. So on the human level, I think it's important there psychologically. As far as legally, the impact is a couple of things.

There's a different statute of limitations. There's a different standard for that. So it's really a two-year statute of limitations when you're done with a health care malpractice suit. There's also no cap on general damages. So general damages are your pain and suffering, your damages that you can't really quantify as far as you can't say, oh, this medical bill plus this medical bill equals your damages. It's that emotional traumatic suffering you went through.

In a malpractice lawsuit, that is capped or limited. At about $450,000, it changes kind of year to year with inflation. So it's limited to that. outside of that, so in a lawsuit like we have now where it's not under the Malpractice Act, there is no limit to pain and suffering damages. There's no maximum the jury can award in a trial if we go to trial. And so it opens it up to where these women who have felt true pain and suffering can be properly compensated for that.

Something that we see again and again in this lawsuit is that a lot of the plaintiffs and the women in these cases, they were rationalized into believing that Dr. Broadbent's behavior was medically necessary. What are your thoughts on that? It's insanely frustrating that I think it goes back to just taking advantage of vulnerable women, women that had not been to an OBGAM before, women who were in emergent situations, women who were pregnant with their first baby, it all goes back to finding these women in these vulnerable situations so that they wouldn't question that we wouldn't understand or even we question ourselves thinking maybe I misunderstood that or maybe that is part of it and this is my first time

so I don't know and I shouldn't say anything. That in and of itself makes me very frustrated. I just feel like that is the MO of a predator. That is someone who really prays and really finds these situations that women won't understand and the women won't question and that he can pass it off as something that is medically necessary. And Adam, what are your thoughts on just this pattern of behavior and rationality to all of this? Well, it's this is exactly what you said it's a pattern one of the benefits of having more than one person again this is all the more people the more terrible it is i'm not saying that it's not but one of the benefits of seeing so many people i mean because it's not just 200 i've talked to

i stopped counting somewhere around 300 plus um people they called in people that weren't ready to be added to the lawsuit but who wanted to add their voice you see patterns both um from Broadbent, you see patterns from the hospital, how they reacted, how they treated, reporting how nurses on staff knew what was happening. We know for a fact they knew what was happening because we've talked, because some of them have reached out or some of them have made comments. There have been whistleblowers. It's not a, we're not making it up or anything like that.

So you see this pattern from the hospitals, from the individual, and you realize, that he truly was praying on people who were, I mean, some of them were minors, most of them it was their first time out of an OBGY appointment ever. If it wasn't their first appointment, it was, there was a language barrier or there was some, something that made them extremely vulnerable, beyond just the vulnerability, which I personally haven't experienced, you and you both would know better, but that vulnerability of walking into an OBGYN office and being in a vulnerable position with an individual. You don't know. He's, he was less than half a mile from a large university, specifically from the freshman dorms. And that can't be coincidence when you see 40 years

of abuse. And as we see these types of cases come to light, in your opinion, Adam, what more can be done to protect patients from their doctors? I think a few things. I mean, I mean, that's a multi-level answer on the individual side education. No amount of education can protect you all the time from an abuser. An abuser is what they are, and it's not the person's fault for being abused. But education and knowing that you can walk out of that office or say no to anything that makes you feel uncomfortable, even if it's supposedly medically necessary, I think that helps. and it may prevent some abuse again you can't prevent all unfortunately and it's always the fault of the abuser when that happens i think on the doctor level i think it comes to empowering nurses more empowering other doctors and making it clear and that comes from intermountain health that comes from mountain star creating a culture in which reporting is celebrated not frowned upon creating a culture where they want to get rid of these cancerous individuals in their institutions It may hurt the institution for a minute, but you have to get rid of the cancer in order to survive.

You can't. Then on the legal level, there's an issue in, I mean, in Utah and most states, the statute of limitations for this is four years. It takes almost 10 years for individuals to process abuse or more. The average reporting age is around 50 years old when you're abused as a minor. And so to say you have to bring a lawsuit within four years. Now, there's exceptions to it, but they're extremely limited. They apply for us, but they're extremely limited. But to say you've only got four years, there should never be a statute of limitations on sexual abuse.

A predator should never be or an abler should never be able to hide behind the statute of limitations and escape liability for abuse. And Adam, what's next for this lawsuit? We just move forward. We hopefully get into the part where we, we hopefully get into the part where we, we start having a chance to talk to these individuals, to depose them, to ask more questions, to ask for documents, and to gather even more evidence than we already have. We just push forward as hard as we can. There will be more roadblocks, I'm sure.

There will be more things that delay the case. I'm sure there will be. But we'll just keep moving forward with 200 or 300 or 50, however many we end up with, and we'll go all the way to the end. what does justice look like to you? And if someone sees this story and they also are a victim of a view similar to your situation, do you have any type of advice for them if they are going through something similar? Sure. I think in the end, justice to me personally would be the hospital systems accepting accountability. I think it's clear that this doctor will have repercussions for his actions. He's facing a criminal charge at this point. But I do believe that it's crucial that

these hospital systems accept accountability and similar to what Adam said, that they understand. that the reporting system needs to change. My mom was a nurse, and she told me numerous times about small errors or questions, and the doctors would get very angry with the nurses if there was ever any doubt that they had. And, of course, that's not a blanket statement. There are so many wonderful physicians, but it's a telltale sign of the culture, and that needs to change. nurses that are assisting and see something, they need to feel empowered, that their job won't be

impacted and that they can be, they can report what they see without repercussions. So justice to me would be the hospital systems, accepting accountability and then making the necessary changes to ensure that this isn't something that happens for another 40 years. If another survivor is listening, my advice to them is to give yourself grace and figure out what what justice looks like to you. Not everyone needs to come forward or feels okay coming forward. And that's something that I've had to realize because I am a person. I'm type A personality that this is what's happening and we're going to move forward at all costs. I realize that that's not how everybody needs to process things or can process things.

So my advice to them would be to find professional help where if that's an attorney or a therapist and figure out what that path and that journey to healing looks like for them. All right, Brooke and Adam, thank you so much for your time today. Adam, thank you. And Brooke, thank you so much for sharing your story. We both, or excuse me, we really appreciate it. Thank you. We appreciate it.

Well, that does it for this episode. Sidebar, you can check out more episodes and subscribe to us anywhere you listen to your podcasts, whether it's Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or YouTube. I'm Elizabeth Milner, and this has been Sidebar, presented by Law and Crime. plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.