Law&Crime Sidebar - 5 Times Donald Trump’s Life Was Threatened During His Presidential Run

Episode Date: July 23, 2024

An attempt to assassinate former president Donald Trump during a rally on July 13 was not the first time Secret Service agents had to step in to protect their charge. Law&Crime’s Jesse Weber takes a closer look at five incidents when the presidential nominee’s life could have been in danger with former Secret Service agent Charles Marino.PLEASE SUPPORT THE SHOW:Protect your retirement with a Gold IRA at LAWANDCRIMEGOLD.COM or call 877-646-5347!HOST:Jesse Weber: https://twitter.com/jessecordweberLAW&CRIME SIDEBAR PRODUCTION:YouTube Management - Bobby SzokeVideo Editing - Michael Deininger and Christina FalconeScript Writing & Producing - Savannah WilliamsonGuest Booking - Alyssa Fisher & Diane KayeSocial Media Management - Vanessa BeinSTAY UP-TO-DATE WITH THE LAW&CRIME NETWORK:Watch Law&Crime Network on YouTubeTV: https://bit.ly/3td2e3yWhere To Watch Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3akxLK5Sign Up For Law&Crime's Daily Newsletter: https://bit.ly/LawandCrimeNewsletterRead Fascinating Articles From Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3td2IqoLAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandcrime/Twitter: https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetworkFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawandcrimeTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lawandcrimenetworkTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lawandcrimeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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keep you on the edge of your seat. Don't let your fears take hold of you as you dive into this addictive series. Love thrillers with a paranormal twist? The entire Oracle trilogy is available on Audible. Listen now on Audible. I will call up carrier to president. I guess I have to do it myself. I know it's not. The shooting of former President Donald Trump was clearly the most significant attempt on his life, but this isn't the first time the president's safety has come into question and his well-being jeopardized. From ricin to a forklift to someone rushing the stage, we break down past security incidents involving Donald Trump with former Secret Service agent Charles Marino.

Welcome to Sidebar, presented by Law and Crime. I'm Jesse Weber. While we've been talking a lot about the attempted assassination of former President Donald Trump just a little over a week ago now, did you know that this was not the first security incident facing Donald Trump, potential threats he faced? No, we are going to do a recap of some of those moments. And for that, I want to bring back in Charles Marino, former member of the Secret Service, and he acted as the senior law enforcement advisor to the secretary of the Department of Homeland Security.

Charles, thank you so much for coming on. First, before we even get started, I'm going to talk about this shooting. So, of course, we're talking about the shooting that happened in Butler, Pennsylvania on July 13th, left Donald Trump wounded, two people seriously injured, one person dead, an act that authorities say was committed by 20-year-old Thomas Matthew Crooks. This was the worst of all the security incidents we will talk about. In fact, it is considered one of the worst lapses in security in decades. And Charles, before we even get into the other security incidents, you know I have to ask

you about what happened yesterday because I want your assessment of Secret Service Director Kim Cheetle's testimony on Capitol Hill. We actually dedicated a full sidebar episode to some of her testimony in the back and forth with lawmakers. Yeah. I'm going to play a little short snippet of it and then we'll talk about it. So the Secret Service did not know that the gunmen actually had a weapon before President Trump was allowed to get up on the stage. To the best of our knowledge and the facts that we have at this point, that is correct.

So can you answer this question, which I think is on the mind of most Americans thinking about this? How can a 20-year-old with his father's AR-15 assault weapon climb on to a roof with a direct 150-yard line of sight to the speaker's podium without the Secret Service? service or local police stopping him? So again, sir, I will say we are nine days out from this event, and I would like to know those answers as well, which is why we are going through these investigations to be able to determine that fully. What went wrong? What would you say?

Again, knowing that we're nine days out, I would say, as I have said from the very outset, I accept responsibility for this tragedy. We are going to look into how this happened, and we are going to look into how this happened. we are going to take corrective action to ensure that it never happens again. Okay, so, Charles, that was very symptomatic of what she said yesterday. You know, we're nine days out. We don't have a lot of the answers. I don't want to give information because the report is going to come out or a series of reports are going to come out.

I don't want to say anything that would contradict it. There are security reasons for why I can't say certain information. What was your take on Director Kimberly Cheedle's testimony? Well, we knew yesterday was going to be a day. reckoning for the agency and it lived up to that. The Secret Service is responsible for the overall security plan, the creation of it, the effective implementation of it. And what failed was they did not ensure that a threat in the form of that building and the reports of suspicious activity and ultimately a threat in the form of the suspect were not mitigated.

The individual was not interviewed and found. The building was not secured the way it needed to. And we had this perfect storm. And of course, this significant error is going to unveil other cracks in the system. We're going to see shortcomings in communications. We heard a little bit about that. We're going to hear shortcomings in the area of coordination with state and local law enforcement. And then we're going to hear shortcomings with resources, which is really where I knew the conversation would take us to.

Okay, again, before we get into the main subject of today, which is the other security incidents involving Donald Trump, I just want to follow up on this. Did you find her answers yesterday satisfactory? I thought there were a lot of non-answers where she could have given answers based on her experience. I recognize and appreciate that there's not just the FBI investigation, but three other investigations going on right now. But I think if you've given two media interviews to ABC and CNN and have already spoken about some of this, you can't come before Congress, which has oversight responsibilities, as we know, of the agency, and then claim that the information can't be talked about because of the ongoing investigation when you've already discussed it out in the open.

So I think from a strategic standpoint, the Secret Service had a lot of unforced errors. They weren't at press conferences. The director didn't go to the site of the assassination attempt. you know, she did not reach out for 72 hours to team members that were involved in this incident from the Secret Service. And there were a host of other things, leaking the opening statement and not providing that to Congress. I've testified before Congress. Generally, I would say that's not going to ensure a good start to your testimony. So really, a lot of mistakes here that I think could have eased the blow during this testimony. I think a fair assessment based on what we've seen even from the lawmakers on both sides of the aisle is that

Director Cheetos comments did not quash a lot of their concerns that they have regarding what happened and the agency. But again, we'll talk about that maybe at another time. Hey, everybody, I want to quickly highlight a sponsor of Sidebar that makes episodes like this possible. And that is Noble Gold. If you're worried about the future of the economy, this could be the company for you, because with so much uncertainty these days, it's natural to worry about the security of your retirement savings. But there is one asset that stands to test the time. You guessed it. Gold. For centuries, gold has been a hedge against market volatility and economic instability.

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Now I want to talk about the other security. incidents involving Donald Trump. And for that, let's start with the famous one in Ohio, because this is back in 2016, and then candidate Donald Trump is speaking at a rally in Ohio when a man hops a railing and suddenly tries to rush the stage. I will call up carrier the president. I guess I have to do it myself. I know it's not.

Thank you for the warning. I was ready for him, but it's much easier if the cops do it. Don't we agree? What a great job. Now you see Secret Service. They jump up to Trump, as they also block the man, later identified as Thomas DiMasimo from coming near Trump. And DeMasimo was arrested. He was charged with disorderly conduct and inducing panic.

His case was moved to federal court, pleaded guilty to entering a restricted area where a person protected by the Secret Service was temporarily visiting without lawful authority. He was fined $250 and placed on one year probation. And interestingly, he said his goal, though, was not to attack Donald Trump. He told CNN, I was thinking that I could get up on stage and take his podium away from him and take his mic away from him and send the message to all people out in the country who wouldn't consider themselves racist, who wouldn't consider themselves approving of what type of violence Donald Trump is allowing in his rallies, and send them a message that we can.

be strong, that we can find our strength, and we can stand up against Donald Trump and against this new wave. He's ushering in of truly just violent white supremacist ideas. Now, obviously, if that was his belief, not the best way to go about it, but putting that to aside, Charles, I imagine people rushing the stage is one of the first priorities and the first concerns of Secret Service, right? It's one of the concerns. Absolutely. That's why the agents are positioned the way they are around the stage to intercept that threat and to do exactly what they did that day. You saw the shift respond to the former president and prepare to take him off depending on if more threats emerged. So, I mean, from a handling standpoint, that was by the book. That was

resolved fairly quickly. But yes, I mean, look, not only are we dealing with the overall threat environment in the country that the Secret Service has to take into account, but it's also the specific threat intelligence related to the protectee. And as we know, Donald Trump is a very outspoken, visible candidate at the time, and now again, another visible Republican nominee. Yeah, and have to highlight the quick action, like you said, of Secret Service that day, coupled, again, with the quick action of the Secret Service during the day of the shooting. I know there's a lot of questions surrounding Secret Service, but how quickly they act when they see the danger is just remarkable

on how selfless their actions are. I am curious, though, do you try to tell candidates for president or even elected officials or politicians, hey, don't hold rallies or events this close to people. You need some sort of distance, right? So that particular event, he was quite close to the crowd. Is that a nightmare for Secret Service? Do you try to tell the campaign,

A, don't set it up like this? Yeah, there's got to be a good relationship between the Secret Service and the campaign. The Secret Service has standardized buffers between the crowd and the stage that we like to see. And it's incumbent on the agents that go out in advance to make sure that they're establishing those buffers in accordance with the Secret Service standards.

So, you know, there's got to be a good relationship. Is there some back and forth about it sometimes? Yes, there is. But remember, time and distance is a friend of the Secret Service. So you want to be able to spot well in advance, somebody making that outward effort to not only jump the barrier, but then have time to respond. So typically you will see it get implemented based on what the Secret Service likes.

to see. Okay, now let me move on to another one. So now we're going to Las Vegas. This is again in 2016. This is June 18th, 2016. And then again, then Canada, Donald Trump is out in Las Vegas, Nevada, and he's speaking at a rally at the Misteer Theater in the Treasure Island Hotel and casino. And a British citizen named Michael Stephen Sanford grabs a Las Vegas Metro PD officer's gun, a Glock 9 millimeter, attempts to pull it from the holster. This was after, Sanford had told the officer he had wanted Trump's autograph. Sanford was arrested. The Secret Service investigated this incident.

He was prosecuted, ended up pleading guilty to one count of a legal alien in possession of a firearm and one count of impeding and disrupting the orderly conduct of government business and official functions. He had faced 20 years in prison. That's my understanding if he went to trial and was convicted. But he was actually in the country illegally because he overstayed his visa. he was sentenced to a year and one day in prison although he was released after about five months

reportedly he has autism suffers from mental health issues he was having an episode that day and the last reporting I saw was that he was back in the UK now what's alarming about Sanford is that he apparently went to a gun range took shooting lessons using a rented Glock 9 millimeter

again the same gun the day before the Trump rally and he admitted to police, he intended to shoot and kill Donald Trump. So that was a real credible threat, Charles. How often does something like that happen? Because it's crazy to think that someone could get access to a weapon like that. There are weapons there. They're on officers' bodies. But how common would that be for someone to try to get access to a weapon like that? Yeah. So look, this is where protective intelligence is very important to the Secret Service. and that is whenever possible, identifying those threats in advance.

And those can come into the Secret Service numerous ways, whether it's a public threat that's made via the internet or at a location, and you get neighbors that call, family that calls, or it gets reported by somebody not known to the subject. So, you know, where you can identify somebody like that on the front end, all the better, that's what you want to do. that's what you want to do so you have time to assess the threat now as far as the firearms within the event site obviously magnetometer support screening everybody coming in that's why the subject

did not bring his own weapon in it would have been detected the secret service also keeps guns within the interior perimeter to a minimum that is you have to be directly supporting these overall security operations of the visit to come in armed. Whether you're a law enforcement officer from out of state, whether you're from the adjoining city, if you are not part of the planning and the implementation of the security plan and supporting the security, then you are not allowed to come in armed. So look, it's something that law enforcement needs to keep in mind. Weapon retention is a top priority for any law enforcement. officer, but especially in that type of venue where people are being screened, may have

mental health issues, don't have access to a gun on their own or don't want to get caught with one, they may attempt to overpower an officer and take that weapon and use that. So it's just something to be cognizant up. All right, well, let's stay in Nevada, let's stay in 2016, because this time it's in Reno, Nevada, but it's in November. And Donald Trump was delivering a speech at the Reno Sparks Convention Center when he sees a guy holding a sign and it seems that there was a mistake. There was a belief that this guy was holding a gun. So someone apparently yelled out gun and Trump is rushed off the stage.

By the way, folks, while we're at it, great. They're coming down. Nobody said it was going to be easy for us. But we will never be stopped. Never, ever be stopped. Now, security ended up grabbing 33-year-old Austin Crites, but they let him go when they realized he didn't have a weapon on him. No, he apparently was just holding a sign that read,

against Trump. Now, Kreitz would end up speaking out about this, telling media, look, I held up the sign and initially people around me were just booing me, telling me to get out of there. Then a couple of these guys tried grabbing the sign out of my hands. He went on to say that multiple people just tackle me down, kicking me, choking me, and just beating me up. That's when things even got crazier. I was on the ground and people were holding my arms, legs, and I kept saying, I can barely breathe. I was turning my neck just to get a little bit of air to keep from passing out. He ended up being escorted by police out of that venue in handcuffs, but as I said, they let him go and they realized he didn't do anything wrong. Now, Charles, this was a mistake.

I mean, how tough is it for Secret Service to distinguish between real threats and mistakes or fake ones? Or who's suspicious and not a threat? Because clearly this shouldn't have happened. Yeah, if memory serves me correct, this was fairly close to the stage area or closer to the stage area towards the middle portion of the crowd. And look, in that type of situation, the Secret Service is not always gonna have all the information they need

as they're witnessing something going on. So in that case, you saw the shift come out on a side of caution and remove the president from the area until the situation was resolved by agents and law enforcement. enforcement in the crowd. Again, I think it's the right move. And there's a number of reasons why. It could be obviously a much more significant incident that hasn't yet played out. It could possibly involve a weapon, unknown to the Secret Service, or it could be some type of a diversionary

tactic, meant to take everybody's attention on that one issue while something else is happening. So it gives the detail and the agents in the event time to assess the situation, make sure that this is the only concern and that this was not part of some type of coordinated activity and then return the president to stage. Also raises the question that Director Cheedel had faced yesterday, how do you weigh something that is suspicious versus a credible threat and what you need to act on? But I was interested when I was reading this and I'm just going back and studying this that so many of these incidents that we're talking about right now happened when he was a candidate when Donald Trump was a candidate. Do you see more of these security incidents with

candidates than actual presidents? I mean, different resources, different assets. I mean, we're asking the same question with the 2024 assassination attempt. Yeah, it's emotions tend to run higher during campaigns where candidates are obviously pushing the envelope on rhetoric, and it really more, what I would say, close to being over-the-top language, personal attacks, et cetera. So with that, come slightly elevated threats. But you'll see in both these positions as a candidate, and ultimately, if you're elected to the Office of the Presidency or Vice Presidency and other positions, you're not going to please all the people all the time in these positions.

And sometimes when you do sit down and talk to people that are on the wrong side of maybe saying something or doing something that they shouldn't have done, a lot of times you leave there with no sense made of the situation because you're dealing with some type of a mental issue that's never going to translate into a solid foundation for why the actions were carried out. But nonetheless, you do see these spikes throughout the campaigns. They level off typically. But you see a steady stream of when somebody does take elected offices,

because there's just so many policy things going on. Like I said, you're always going to upset somebody. Right. And again, just to follow up on that real quick, is it less resources for a candidate than a president? Well, certainly it is. The resources, which you've heard come up in the country, conversation regarding the attempted assassination of former President Trump, the resources

should match the specific threat intelligence that you have. So no matter if somebody is a candidate, take for example, former President Obama, he rolled with a pretty heavy campaign detail, and that was based on the unprecedented nature of potentially becoming the first African-American president and with that came a lot of increased intelligence. So you should see the resources reflect the intelligence and that's why now if you look at the Trump detail compared to what it was on Saturday in Butler, Pennsylvania, there is a significant increase that has been made. Yeah, unfortunately it shouldn't take an incident like that for there to be a change.

But I have a lot more, I have a few more incidents I want to talk to you about that are just just wild. So this one, we're going to go now to the next year, September 6, 2017. So Donald Trump has become president. And we're at the Endeavor Manden Refinery in Manden, North Dakota. And then President Trump was planning on giving a speech at this refinery site when 42-year-old Gregory Lee Line Gang stole a forklift with the intent to ram Donald Trump's motorcade, flipped his limo over, admitted his intent was to kill Donald Trump. He admitted that. Now, he didn't get very far in that plot. He jumped out of this forklift. He took off. He ran. He was caught. He was arrested. And at first, authorities thought he was just stealing the forklift. But then he later admitted, no, his goal was to assassinate Donald Trump. He pleaded guilty to a federal charge of attempting to enter a remained in a restricted building on grounds while using a dangerous weapon, while a second charge of attempt to damage government property was dropped. However, before stealing the forklift, he apparently set fire to multiple buildings as well. So line gang was sentenced to five years for the theft of the forklift, 10 years for setting the fires, and five years for a separate burglary case.

So 20 years in prison total, apparently he'll be released by 2038. Charles, how do you even plan for that one, right? I mean, that one seems out of left field. Yeah, this is the layers, the concentric circles that we've spoken about. You've got the inner, the middle, the outer perimeter of the security plan. Obviously, that inner perimeter is extremely tight. That includes also placing obstacles to make sure that something like that never makes it. Right.

Towards the arrival departure area where the limo arrives and departs with the protectee. So you want to make sure that that area is contained. But one other thing you want to do, too, as part of the. the advance, especially in commercial areas that may have such items as forklifts, etc. You want to get a good understanding of if there's going to be any work going on during a presidential visit or nominee visit. And normally you will find that these companies cease operations, so many of their employees can actually attend the event.

In that case, you want to make sure that none of these types of equipment are allowed to be operable by somebody during the event. So you want to make sure no keys are being left in vehicles. They're disconnected. They're turned off because all of these can become some type of a threat. So there is a way to go above and beyond, but it requires a lot of attention to detail. And you have to really view everything as a potential threat. But the ultimate goal is to make sure that something like that never makes it close to something like the presidential lima. Yeah, you really got to look out in advance and try to foresee any possibility. I mean, you know, the good thing was the for forklift was apparently that whole area was blocked off

for Trump's visit. So like you said, it wasn't, it couldn't go really far. Here's a scary one for you. Canadian citizen, Pascal Ferrier, was accused of sending an envelope laced with the poison to President Donald Trump back in 2020, but it was intercepted by the FBI before it made its way to the White House. Now, the letter inside the envelope read, I found a new name for you, the ugly tyrant clown. She apparently mailed additional toxic letters to Texas state law enforcement officials. She was picked up by law enforcement crossing the border into New York while carrying a gun, knife, and ammunition. She was sentenced to a little under 22 years in prison, plus a lifetime of supervised release.

Charles, how often does that happen? I mean, and how do authorities intercept those kind of letters? Yeah, it happens a lot when the Secret Service assumes protection for a candidate, they will oversee mail screening as well, too. So as a last line of defense, things like packages and mail will be diverted, will be screened prior to anything being touched by the protectee. So it's a robust system of protection that gets put in place to prevent things like that. And on that same vein, let's end this out with threats.

I always find this interesting because people say, oh, you say something about the president, the Secret Service is going to come after you. Well, in this incident, it happened because what am I talking about? I want to highlight Tracy Marie Fiorenza, a Chicago woman who last year was arrested for threatening to shoot Donald Trump and his son Barron in an email to the headmaster of a school in Palm Beach County, Florida. That's where Donald Trump's primary residence of Marlago is located. And the email said, quote, I will shoot Donald Trump senior and Baron Trump straight in the face at any opportunity that I get. This is an email from May 21st. This is according to an affidavit from a Secret Service agent.

I am going to slam a bullet in Barron, Trump's head with his father in self-defense. She continued to write in another email in June. So Secret Service, they met up with her. They interviewed her. She was charged with one federal count of transmitting threats to kill or injure another person in interstate commerce. Charles, again, how do we classify something as a threat or illegal? When does the Secret Service get involved? Because I am sure that a president constantly gets threat.

But how do we talk about when something is legitimate and has to be investigated and has to be prosecuted? Well, it's always investigated, always. The people are always interviewed and there is a lengthy assessment process that takes place. I've done numerous of these and they are painstakingly detailed. And what the assessment wants to provide to agents is does this purpose? person have the means and the ability to carry out what they're saying, right? Do they have money? Do they have access to weapons? Do they have transportation? Are they nearby? Are they far away? Where are they located? And so you want to take all of this information, of course, you know,

you want to take into account any mental issues that the person may have. But the main thing is, can they formulate a plan of attack? That's the big thing. Now, not all speech is free. I've had this conversation more times than I care to. Usually when you show up to conduct one of these interviews, the first thing you'll hear is, yep, I said it, and I've got my First Amendment right to free speech.

Well, that's not how it works. There's a statute, Title 18, Section 871, specifically for making threats against the President of the United States. So there have been people that have been charged under this statute. If the assessment comes back or you have a repeat offender that you have deemed maybe not a threat, but it just doesn't stop or circumstances have changed. Like they've hit the lottery and they've gone out and bought 15 assault weapons, then yes, that's the type of stuff that changes.

And then they're classified based on the threat level that we feel that they represent. And that can go all the way up to surveillance during protective visits in an area where they live. Do you know how we know that Charles has had experience in this area and has had to deal with this so much? He knew the number of the statute. That was incredibly impressive. So I can see you've done this a lot. and unfortunately been exposed to this a lot. I find it, it's very, it's very good to hear that.

Every incident is investigated and not just put it to the side. So that's great to hear. Look, so these are just, you know, some of the things that we've seen in the past. Hopefully, we do not see anything either like any of the incidents I mentioned or anything like the shooting out in Butler, Pennsylvania. But it's a crazy world and, you know, the Secret Service. They do a great job. Obviously, this was a terrible, terrible security lapse. We're still trying to figure out what happened in Butler.

But again, hands off to the Secret Service because there's so much that has to be done to protect not only the President of the United States but others. Charles Marino, thank you so much for coming on. Appreciate it. Thanks. Good to be back. Now, after we recorded with Charles, we just got an update about something. Secret Service Director, Kimberly Cheedle, who we were talking about, has officially resigned from her office. In a letter she wrote to Secret Service staff, it says, quote, in light of recent events,

it is with a heavy heart that I have made the difficult decision to step down as your director. The Secret Service's solemn mission is to protect our nation's leaders and financial infrastructure. On July 13th, we fell short on that mission. The scrutiny over the last week has been intense and will continue to remain as our operational tempo increases. As your director, I take full responsibility for the security lapse. very big development. We will continue to follow what happens next. But as always, thank you so much for joining us here on Sidebar. Please subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jesse Weber. I'll see you next time. right now on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app,

Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.