Law&Crime Sidebar - 6 Disturbing Moments in Dad of Oxford School Shooter’s Trial

Episode Date: March 8, 2024

The father of the Oxford school shooter faces trial on four counts of involuntary manslaughter for his alleged role in the deadly November 2021 shooting that left four students dead and several others injured. Law&Crime’s Jesse Weber breaks down six disturbing moments from day one of James Crumbley’s trial.PLEASE SUPPORT THE SHOW:If you’re ever injured in an accident, you can check out Morgan & Morgan. You can submit a claim in 8 clicks or less without having to leave your couch. To start your claim, visit: https://www.forthepeople.com/LCSidebarHOST:Jesse Weber: https://twitter.com/jessecordweberLAW&CRIME SIDEBAR PRODUCTION:YouTube Management - Bobby SzokeVideo Editing - Michael DeiningerScript Writing & Producing - Savannah WilliamsonGuest Booking - Alyssa Fisher & Diane KayeSocial Media Management - Vanessa BeinSTAY UP-TO-DATE WITH THE LAW&CRIME NETWORK:Watch Law&Crime Network on YouTubeTV: https://bit.ly/3td2e3yWhere To Watch Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3akxLK5Sign Up For Law&Crime's Daily Newsletter: https://bit.ly/LawandCrimeNewsletterRead Fascinating Articles From Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3td2IqoLAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandcrime/Twitter: https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetworkFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawandcrimeTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lawandcrimenetworkTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lawandcrimeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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keep you on the edge of your seat. Don't let your fears take hold of you as you dive into this addictive series. Love thrillers with a paranormal twist? The entire Oracle trilogy is available on Audible. Listen now on Audible. as we finish the trial of Jennifer Crumbly we now start the trial of James Crumbly the father of the Oxford High School shooter could he be found criminally responsible for the actions of his son this is a recap of day one welcome to sidebar presented by law and crime I'm Jesse Weber all right let's talk about day one in a brand new trial out of Michigan they may actually seem kind of familiar to you I say that because this is the trial of James Crumbly, the father of the then 15-year-old Oxford High School shooter who killed four students and wounded several others in a horrific shooting back on November 30th, 2021. The victims, Madison Baldwin, who was 17 years old, Tate Neer, 16 years old, Hannah St. Juliana, 14 years old, and Justin Schilling, 17 years old. And while the shooter

ended up pleading guilty to 24 charges and was sentenced to life in prison, now we had a question about his parents. And I said this trial may seem familiar because both of the shooter's parents, James and Jennifer, were charged with four counts of involuntary manslaughter representing each victim in the case. Now, they are the first parents in American history to be held criminally responsible for the actions of their child in a mass shooting. And in keeping with this landmark history-making decision, last month, Jennifer Crumbly was found guilty. So now, we move on to the trial of James Crumbley. And I will tell you in many ways, in my view,

the case against James Crumbly is worse than Jennifer. And we're going to get into why. But to be clear, when we talk about involuntary manslaughter, a charge that carries potentially up to 15 years in prison, is a question of whether or not if he's convicted of all four charges. He would serve those sentences consecutively. Could that add up to 60 years? That's a conversation for a different time.

But there are two theories for the jury to find him, guilty of involuntary manslaughter here. Either James Crumbly committed a grossly negligent act causing death. These people died as a result of him storing the firearm and ammunition so as to allow access to his child. This is gross negligence. It's willful disregarding the risk to others that he knew of the danger to others and failed to take ordinary care or appropriate care.

That is one theory. The alternative theory by which they can find him guilty of involuntary manslaughter is is that Crumbly was grossly negligent in performing a legal duty that he owed to these victims, that a parent has a legal duty to use reasonable care to prevent their child from harming others or preventing their child from creating an unreasonable risk of harm to others. Again, willful neglect, willful failure to fulfill that duty. So a big theme here was that what his son did was foreseeable and that it was prevent. preventable. So with that in mind, we heard the opening statements from the prosecution and the

defense on day one. And to start off with the prosecution, because they go first, it's their burden, it's their case. Here is Marquist. November the 30th, 2021, James Crumby's 15-year-old son walked out of the boys' bathroom and Oxford High School holding the 9-0-0-0-handed handgun. Jane Crotney's son walked out, he He pointed, he aimed, that 9mm, and fired it 32 times over the course of the next 9 minutes. He fired that weapon at teachers and students. He killed four, wounded seven, and they were terrorized the entire community. James Crumbly bought that gun that his son used to kill as a gift for his son four days before the attack.

James Crumley failed to secure that gun in a way to prevent his son from accessing it. The decision that James Crumley made to buy that gun as a gift for his son was made even though he knew that his son was in the midst of total and complete social isolation. It had been in the downward spiral of distress that had been going on for some time. You'll see evidence in as early as spring of 2021, the shooter had expressed. to his one and only friend that he had asked his father for help. He told him to suck it up. That was

in April of 2021. You learn that instead of receiving help or intervention of any time, James Crembley instead began to take his son to the shooting range. That was big. The idea that he was the one,

James, not Jennifer, James, who bought the firearm used in this shooting. Bautifer his son, just days before the shooting and failed to secure it, that this cable lock for the gun was never used. That's the allegation. Now, from there, Keyes talks about what happened on the morning of the shooting.

Before the son took out a gun and shot people, the crumblies were called to the school because they were alerted about a disturbing drawing their son made on his math worksheet. It was a gun with the words, help me. There were other alarming images as well. And more importantly, listen to what James and Jennifer did it do?

James Trembly and his wife, neither one of them, mentioned anything about the gun being purchased for him four days before the shooting. James Trembly didn't say a word about how that picture of the gun that his son drew was identical that you will see of the six hour nine millimeter. They didn't say anything about the prior request for help.

James Cremble didn't mention anything about the severity, the real circumstances of the shooter's friend being taken from him. They didn't just fail to inform in that meeting, though. They also failed to act. It was recommended at that meeting that James and Jennifer Kremlin get help for their sons then immediately that day. And they were provided with a list of resources with mental health providers that would fit any budget,

any insurance plan, or even no insurance at all. But they didn't. James Kremlin didn't do anything. Jennifer Kremlin didn't do anything. Neither one of them called. They didn't take him home. The reason given to the counselor is that they had to work. But James didn't mention that as a DoorDash driver,

he set his own schedule. He didn't mention that he hadn't even signed in for the day for Dorias yet. He was at the vet. James Cremble spent the next two hours driving around town making deliveries. Never once bothering to stop by his house, which was just a mile away,

to check on the whereabouts of the gun that his son drew. Okay, so kind of reminiscent of what we heard from the prosecution's case against Jennifer Crumbly. A little bit different, though, for James, especially with his job that day. By the way, when I talk about these tough legal cases like the Crumbly one, I always think about the lawyers, okay? I think about what is it like to be in these kinds of cases. And the truth is, not all law firms are the same, especially in personal injury cases. If you're going to take on big insurance companies, you need a big firm, okay?

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go to for the people.com slash lc sidebar or click the link in the description and pinned in the comments then we heard from the defense in their opening and here is mariel lehmann the prosecution alleges that james crumbly was aware that his son was a danger to others and that he failed to protect other people from his son the prosecution alleges that james crumbly had knowledge that his son could and would hurt other people and that he failed to protect those people, that he failed to take steps to protect others. And ladies and gentlemen, that simply is not true. He did not purchase that gun with the knowledge that his son may use it against other people. Yes, James Crumby was a door dash driver. We all know that. It's been said multiple.

friends. Ladies and gentlemen, being a DoorDash driver doesn't mean that your job is any less important to you or other people than any other job. And ladies and gentlemen, when you're not aware of an immediate, imminent danger, why would you do anything different than what you normally do? You wouldn't because you don't have any reason that you need to do. So the argument is he didn't know what his son was doing. he had no reason to know what his son was up to.

He had no reason to think differently. He had no reason to act differently. That's what the defense is saying. But we know that openings, they're not evidence. So let's actually get into some of the evidence in this case. So the first thing that the prosecution has to show is that a shooting took place and that there were people who were killed. So with that, the first witness of the trial, might remember her, was Molly Darnell, who was a survivor of the horrifying Oxford shooting. And she was actually shot in the left arm.

Had you ever seen this person before? No. At the moment that I locked eyes with him, we were standing square in what you saw. Okay. Tell the jury about laughing eyes in what you saw. So I lock eyes with this person and I see some movement coming from this off one side of him. and I realized that he's raising it down to me. And my body reacted and I jumped. You're motioning that you jump to the right.

I jumped to the right, so I'm jumping this way in the room. And at this point the door is closed? The door is closed, yes. You jump to the right and then I'm turning and I'm jumping to the right and then I feel my shoulder moved back. It feels like I've been stung by hot water. It was so far out of what I knew, what happened. And so I just knew that if I was bleeding, I had to put a turn like that.

It's chilling. I mean, I don't have a better word for it. It's just absolutely terrifying and chilling to hear this accountant. And also, it's a miracle that she's alive today and able to talk and testify about this. Now, from there, we heard the testimony of Detective Edward Wogrowski from the computer's crimes unit. Now, he went through the actual text message conversations in this case and listened to this exchange from March 8th, 2021, between the crumbly parents. And it gives you a little bit of insight into the family dynamic. So let's go through this conversation.

Blue from Jennifer, Ethan, going to bowling. what's in green is James right what's the response there IDK or I don't know and Jennifer's response 312 p.m. does he have his phone again 312 p.m. Why isn't he home yet 312 p.m. he should be home by now. Correct okay and Jennifer at 312 p.m. and 56 seconds says freaking out what is James response? He does not be home till 316. Jennifer's response I told you to pick him up because he's up set, and I don't want him to do anything stupid right. That's March 8th at 3.13 p.m.

Right. And James's response? Dude, period. He's fine, period. And I'm trying to... So it goes to that knowledge component. Did James have reason to know that his son was despondent, that his son was troubled? Now, he says he's fine.

Maybe that could work to his advantage. The defense's advantage. To say he really didn't think there was an issue with his son. Or was he either not really paying attention? Maybe he didn't care, something for the jury to consider. Now, speaking of text messages, here are some from the shooter himself to a friend. Tell us what the shooter wrote April 4, 2021, 1156 at night. Like, I hear people talking to me.

I see someone in the distance. And April 4th, 2021, 1156, and 50 seconds, what is he right? I actually asked my dad to take me to the doctor yesterday, but he just gave you some pills and told me to suck it up. And 1157 p.m., what are you right? He continues on with, like, it's at the point that I'm asking to go to the doctor. And then he said, my mom laughed when I told her. That was again 1157 in the evening, April 4th, 21? Correct.

April 5th, 2021. This is just after midnight. What is he right? He tells his friend, but I'm having bad insomnia right now, R.N. and paranoia. And then what is he right? I need help. That's at 12.11 a. Correct.

And then at 12, 12 a.m., what is he right? I was thinking I calling 911, too, so I can go to the hospital. Continuing on April 5th, 12, 12 a.m., what does he write? But then my parents would be really fast. And finally, 12.38 a.m., what is he right? He says, I'm going to ask my parents to go to the doctors tomorrow or Tuesday again. They continue to live, but this time I'm going to tell them about the voices. Now, to be clear, we don't know if the shooter actually had these conversations with his parents.

It is evidence. It's up to the jury to weigh the significance of it, but it is important for the prosecution, helps to establish that James Crumbling and his wife turned a blind eye, were willfully disregarding what was happening with their son. And speaking of that friend, that friend was taken to an out-of-state treatment center, which sent the shooter into this isolated downward spiral, and allegedly James knew about this too. But I do want to highlight one more major piece of evidence that came in on day one of this trial, the 911 phone call, and it kind of ties into what I just was talking about.

So James Crumbly is notified about the shooting at about 109 p.m. He tries to call his son, no luck, speaks to his wife, then races home and calls 9-1-1 at around 1.30 p.m. I'm not really sure. I'm at my house. There's an active shooter situation going on at the high school. My son goes to high school. I have a missing gun at my house. I need an officer to come to my house. I have a missing gun.

And my son, the best of school. and we had to go meet with the counselor this morning because of something that we wrote on a paper and then I was down and I saw a whole bunch of cops going somewhere and I made sure I wanted to get to the hospital to some of the high school and then somebody told me that there was Massachusetts and then I'd like come just to find out and I think my So why is this important? I think this is important for two reasons. One, it shows, first of all, he probably should have checked for the gun immediately after having

that meeting at the school, chose not to do, had the ability to do it, didn't do it. But I do believe that it kind of ties into a more important element, the knowledge element. If he really had no idea that his son was capable of this, of being a school shooter, If all of this came out of left field, does that add up with James right after news of the shooting broke, rushing to check for the gun and call 911 thinking his son is the shooter? Hmm, something to think about. We are obviously going to continue to follow this case for you here on Sidebar and on the Long Crime Network where we're doing our live stream of it. So hope everybody can check that out.

That's all we have for you here on this episode of Sidebar, everybody. Thank you so much for joining us. As always, please subscribe on Apple Podcast, Spotify, YouTube. wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jesse Weber. I'll speak to you next time.