Law&Crime Sidebar - 7 Damaging Pieces of Evidence Against ‘Doomsday Cult’ Mom Lori Vallow Daybell So Far

Episode Date: April 17, 2023

Prosecutors in the trial of Lori Vallow Daybell presented shocking evidence against the “doomsday cult” mom in week one of proceedings. Daybell stands accused of various crimes, including murdering her two children, J.J. Vallow and Tylee Ryan, along with conspiracy to murder her husband’s late wife, Tammy Daybell. The Law&Crime Network’s Jesse Weber breaks down the seven most damaging pieces of evidence presented so far.PLEASE SUPPORT THE SHOW:Save 10% on your entire POM Pepper Spray order by using code LAWCRIME10 at http://bit.ly/3IGNFxvLAW&CRIME SIDEBAR PRODUCTION:YouTube Management - Bobby SzokePodcasting - Sam GoldbergWriting & Video Editing - Michael DeiningerGuest Booking - Alyssa FisherSocial Media Management - Vanessa Bein & Kiera BronsonSUBSCRIBE TO OUR OTHER PODCASTS:Court JunkieObjectionsThey Walk Among AmericaCoptales and CocktailsThe Disturbing TruthSpeaking FreelyLAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandcrime/Twitter: https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetworkFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawandcrimeTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lawandcrimenetworkTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lawandcrimeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can binge all episodes of this Law and Crimes series ad-free right now. Join Wondry Plus in the Wondery app Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Agent Nate Russo returns in Oracle 3, Murder at the Grandview, the latest installment of the gripping Audible Original series. When a reunion at an abandoned island hotel turns deadly, Russo must untangle accident from murder. But beware, something sinister lurks in the grand. View Shadows. Joshua Jackson delivers a bone-chilling performance in this supernatural thriller that

will keep you on the edge of your seat. Don't let your fears take hold of you as you dive into this addictive series. Love thrillers with a paranormal twist? The entire Oracle trilogy is available on Audible. Listen now on Audible. Money, power, and sex. That's what this case is about. The defendant, Lori, Ballow, Daybell, use money, power, and sex, or the promise of those things to get what she wanted. Week one of the Lori Vallow Daybell murder trial has wrapped up. And the question is, what has been some of the most damaging pieces of evidence against her? That's the question.

We break it down. Welcome to Sidebar, presented by Law and Crime. I'm Jesse Weber. I have covered a lot of stories at Law and Crime, okay? but if there's one thing I can tell you throughout all of them, it is that you have to stay safe. And that is where Palm Pepper Spray can really help. You see, this is a discreet but powerful personal defense tool.

Palm Pepper Spray shoots up to 12 feet using the strongest legal formula of pepper spray. It's super safe, easy to use, ready to fire. All you got to do is just point and spray. The best part, we got a promo code for you. You can save 10% by using code law crime 10 at Palm Pepper Spray.com. and always remember to call 911 if you see somebody in trouble. Week one of the Lori Valo Daybell trial has wrapped up, and this jury has seen a lot from truly graphic and disturbing autopsy photos

to an introduction of a just a wild story with a whole cast of players. It's a lot to take in for these 12 jurors and six alternates, who, by the way, by all accounts, have not really heard anything about this before. They're hearing all about this for the first time. But the question is, how is the prosecution doing it showing that Lori Vallow DeBell committed these crimes? What has been some of the most damaging evidence against her so far? Remember, this is the 49-year-old doomsday mother on trial for first-degree murder and conspiracy to commit murder charges in connection with the deaths of her children.

Seven-year-old J.J. Valo, 16-year-old Tiley Ryan. Their bodies were found on the property of her current husband, Chad Daybell. He actually faces similar charges. he's going to be tried separately at a later date. But Lori Valo Debel, her troubles don't end there because she is also charged with conspiracy to commit murder in the death of Chad's now deceased wife Tammy Daybell. You see, originally, Tammy's death was thought to be

from natural causes that she died in her sleep. But when the kids' bodies were found and her body was exhumed, authorities realized that there was something else going on. And that is when prosecutors explained this week that she actually died from asphyxiation at the hands of another. So, like I said, the jury heard a lot in week one. But we always have to remember what is the end in mind?

What did the prosecution present this week that was the most damaging pieces of evidence against the defendant, Lori Valadeville, or arguably the most damaging pieces of evidence? Well, that's what we want to get into right now. We want to be clear about what the prosecution is trying to prove. For conspiracy charges with respect to the death of the children and Tammy, prosecutors are the case that Lori entered into an agreement to kill these people, and either her or one of the participants of this agreement took overt steps in furtherance of this agreement. And we know that prosecutors allege that Chad Daybell and Lori's deceased brother, Alex Cox, have been tied

into this pact. So let's keep that in mind. Now, for the murder charges, it's not that the prosecution needs to prove that Lori actually carried out the killings herself or even that she was present. In fact, I think there's strong evidence to suggest that Alex Cox is the one who carried out the killings. But as long as Lori was a direct principle, then she could be found guilty. Meaning, as long as she aided and abetted, advised and encouraged, or even compelled another to carry this out, that's how you get to the murder. And prosecutors say that Lori did all of this to not only maintain a relationship with Chad Daybell, with whom she began an affair, but to reap the proceeds of social security and insurance benefits.

And Lori and her husband, Chad, justified their actions through their seemingly warped extreme religious beliefs, seeing their victims as evil spirits and part of the darkness. That's what's been alleged by the prosecution. Okay. So some of the most damaging evidence, week one, arguably came from Melanie Gibb. Lori Valo Daibald's former best friend. Definitely an emphasis on former because this is somebody who has previously provided testimony against Lori. And Melanie would testify about how Lori, through her relationship with Chad,

developed these very extreme beliefs. And there was a light and dark scale of people. There was a talk of zombies casting out dark spirits. Listen to Melanie Gibb describe how Lori saw the kids and Tammy Davell. Were you ever told, with regard to Tiley being dark, did Lorry ever tell you whether or not an evil spirit had entered Tiley? Yes. Do you recall approximately when that would have been? It was, um, I, sometime between probably February or March to June, somewhere, I, I,

Believe when she was in Texas, maybe she shared with me if she's Texas, which you probably can recall better when she was in Texas than I can, but it's probably like in May or April whenever she was there. That's what it feels like. That's what it was. Do you recall approximately when, well, actually let me back up, did she ever tell you if JJ was taken over or possessed by an evil spirit? Yes, she did. And do you recall approximately when that would have been? I'm sorry, was it September, was it September, was it September, yeah, September, yeah, September, yeah, September 2019. Yeah. And was that the first time you'd heard of JJ being possessed? Yes. And you indicated previously, I believe, that Lori had talked about how both Charles and Tammy were supposed to pass away.

Correct. do you know what she told you regarding tammy passing away she learned from chad that he knew years ago that she would be passing away you know early in her life so let's be clear about something there is no smoking gun in this case not necessarily there's no audio recording of lori and her brother and chad saying they're going to kill everyone there's no videotape of her killing anyone so far there's really no physical forensic data tying her to the crimes this is very much a circumstantial evidence case. But what prosecutors are doing is creating a narrative.

They're showing that through Lori's comments and actions and the questionable timeline of events, the sequence of events like marrying Chad Daybell two weeks after his wife's untimely death, that is how they say that Lori was an active participant in all of this. That shows that she knew what was going on, that there was a plot to kill and she was a part of it. And here, these alleged comments that she knew Tammy was going to die and that she saw her children as dark beings, it all goes towards that. And speaking of problematic comments, this is the truly damaging piece of testimony from Melanie Gibb. She testified that she never

saw JJ again after the night of September 22nd, 2019, and how basically Lori would call her up and not only lie about JJ's whereabouts, but asked her to lie for her to police. do you recall any specific times that chad contacted you yes um it seemed like it was a few days in november before thanksgiving and he called me when i was in utah and he told me that the rexper police would be calling to not answer the phone did he expand on that as to why he didn't want you to answer the phone well i had to ask him a few questions and what did he tell you He said that the police were questioning at Lori's apartment where JJ was. And then I asked him, I said he's not with Kay, and he said, no, he's not.

And he had a nervous voice, and I asked him if he was, and he said yes. And he told me that Lori will be contacting me shortly after that. that. And you say you asked Chad if JJ was with Kay. Why did you ask him that? Because that's what I was told. That's where he went. So why would Kay be looking for him if Kay was at JJ? Do you recall who told you that he was with Kay? Lori did. And going forward to the date that Chad called and asked you not to speak with law enforcement, did Lori, in fact, reach out to you?

She did. What did she say? She said that the police had come by and she told the police that I had JJ. She told me to go to that I – she told the police that I was – I took JJ to a movie called Frozen, I believe, and just take random pictures of kids running around at the movie theater. No. Did law enforcement try to reach out to you? They did.

Did you pick up or respond to them initially? Not initially. And why did you not respond to them initially? I wasn't sure what in the world to do. Had Lori told you anything previously regarding law enforcement? Um, she, I'm not sure at this point when she shared with me, but she told me that they were dark and that they were, you know, after her, like Satan was after her with the other dark entities that they talked about.

So they had become, they call them dark translated beings, I believe. So the question becomes, let's assume Lori's innocent, okay, let's assume she's innocent. Why would an innocent person ask her friend to lie to police for her? her about the whereabouts of her would-be-de-son. That's a problem for Lori Valo-Debel, in my opinion. Now, she can make the argument that she was having problems with the Woodcocks. These are JJ's grandparents. But again, that sequence of events, knowing what we know now about what happened to these kids,

that is not great for her. Asking Melanie to lie to police, and there's evidence that Lori Valo-Dabelle lied to police herself about what was going on, that in the law we call consciousness of guilt. You lie, you mislead because you are covering up your. crimes. So it becomes difficult for her to suggest that she didn't know what was going on. Now let's get into another piece of arguably damaging testimony from Lori Valo-Dabell that the jury heard this week. And that is when a phone call was introduced between Melanie Gibb and Chad and Lori. Gibb actually secretly recorded it. And she basically confronts the couple

on where JJ is after he goes missing. And as you'll see, Lori puts the blame on Kay Woodcock, JJ's grandmother, but listen to how eerie this is. case house and told me went there and now he's not there. I was wondering what happened. Well, I had to move in somewhere else because of her actions. So was she doing something, like was she trying to come get him or something or like trying to kidnap him? Well, yeah, she's said that awful times before, but...

Okay, well, you know what I asked Chad the other day was like, hey, you know, where is JJ? And he said, for my security, he didn't want me to know, so is there a reason I should be in danger to know where he is? No, it's nobody, it's his danger. It's the nature that there's people after me. Okay. So, okay.

If you know, that puts you in a danger. I was wondering why you told the police why he was with me. I just needed a new top somebody, so I wouldn't have to tell them he really was. They were going to tell the K. Oh, yeah. So is it, do you think it's like your family, or, you know, like your family or dad or, you know, that people? Well, not my whole family, but you know, family but you know almost my family is working against me and with her basically yeah is

is safe he is safe and happy darkness is knocking on the door all the time because that's the way dark works with the light and i promise you that i have done nothing wrong in this case but sometimes you have to hide in a cavity of a rock for your own life safety and that's what the Lord requires of you sometimes and that's how it is and i'm sorry that's how it is because there is a lot of darkness on the earth you're being controversial to me or if you're recording this conversation for the police or whatever i don't know what your intention is on this long come but with all my heart and i have forever and i will always be i appreciate those works but if you really love me you would have told the police least that I had juju with me. That's not, that's not what a friend does. And that just

makes me look weird and it just, it's not safe for me. That doesn't look good. I mean, you have to think of my welfare if you love me. I do, and I did exactly what I felt the Lord was instructed me to do. And I appreciate you and I love you. And I don't do anything to harm you. And you can have all of this confirmed to you by the lord i have and my my conscience is clear i feel very understanding what's really going on lorry and i believe that look i believe that you have been very deceived by saying i believe that he has stripped you and i just i don't believe that what you're doing is correct i just don't i mean Tammy dies and then your husband died

and then he's missing it just doesn't sound like God's plan to me it just sounds it gives me a gut feeling like in my gut it feels weird it doesn't feel right I don't have peace about it I never had thought 100% peace about

it always felt like a little weird in my stomach about all these things you know me Mal you know me this does not sound like you this sounds like you've been influenced by somebody dark who wants you to believe dark things and have fear of the celestial world. Let's recap.

Chad's wife dies. Lori's former husband, Charles Vowler, who I haven't mentioned yet, he's shot to death by her brother Alex Cox out in Arizona in July 2019, too. So that's another dead body. Now her kids are missing. And this is how she's talking, evasive, shrouded in religious connotations, and a Of course, we know JJ was not safe and happy. Now, let's talk about Charles Valo for a second.

Lori is separately charged in Arizona with a conspiracy to commit murder in the death of Charles Valo. Originally, it was deemed that Alex shot Charles in self-defense, but as we can see, authorities now think that this was murder. And evidence of his death is coming into this trial, basically to show a common scheme or pattern, that whenever anyone gets in Lori and Chad's way, whenever they deem someone a dark, force or when someone gets in the way of Chad and Lori's relationship or when they want money, Lori and Chad kill. This is the death of Charles Valo is tied in to the death of JJ and Tiley in a way. So Chandler Police Detective Nathan Duncan comes on and he takes the stand. He starts reading text messages between Chad and Lori.

This one is from seven days after Charles is killed. Lori to Chad. I just got the letter from the insurance company saying that I am not the beneficiary. It's a spear through my heart. Who do you think he changed it to? Brandon or probably K. He left nothing for JJ on 718, 2019 at 12-19 hours. Lori Sinch had a message.

So I talked to the insurance company. He changed it in March. So it was probably Ned before we got rid of him. They can't tell me to who, of course, but it's done. I'll still get the $4,000 a month from SS. Now, Ned is what Lori referred to as the demonic force within Charles. She had previously tried to cast out that dark spirit, but chilling words to use right after he's killed,

and it seems the financial motive is on full display here as well, kill Charles, become the beneficiary, and her shock when she found out that she wasn't. By the way, these text messages are really interesting. I'll give you another example. Lori sends her brother, Alex, a message on July 9th. 2019. This is two days before Charles is killed by Alex. And it says, quote, again, this is from Lori, going to need you to stay close, lots to do. Thank you for standing by me. It's all coming

to ahead this week. Another message from Chad to Lori on July 26, 2019, three months or so before Tammy dies. Chad expresses his frustration with his family life, but ends the message with, quote, I sense permanent freedom is coming. So it's these messages that seem to suggest a foreshadowing of death that is very chilling and that Lori was right there the whole time. Now we have to talk about Zulema Pestanis. So I've talked a lot about these strange teachings and beliefs, and she's talked about that as well.

This was the woman who was married to Lori's brother, Alex Cox, for only two weeks before he died. Now, reports are that he died from natural causes. was reporting that he had blood clots in his system. But again, the timing of his death is so strange. And without him here, Zulema, if you believe her, is almost the voice of Alex Cox. But before we even get to that,

here is another monumental state witness like Melanie Gibb, who if the jury believes her testimony and the defense certainly tried to pick apart her credibility and honed in on some of her outlandish police, if the jury believes her, Her testimony is tying Lori to the deaths of these three people. First, listen to what Lori allegedly told Zulema about JJ. Did Lori ever talk to you, or Lori and Chad, ever talked to you about how long JJ,

they expected JJ to live? Lori had said that he was going to have a very short life. And then in a meeting that we had at Lori's house and, early August of 2019 he said that JJ was going to have a very short life that he was going to live a short life was because he was going to come right back as Colby's child again another example of an eerie comment foreshadowing the upcoming death of a person. Now let's move on to Tammy Daybell. Chad's wife, who suddenly died out of nowhere,

prosecutors saying it was from asphyxiation, even though at the time it was ruled natural causes. So she dies. Lori and Chad get married two weeks later. Prosecutors charged Lori with conspiracy to kill Tammy, the idea here that she was in the way of a relationship with Chad. Now, at one point, someone had actually tried to shoot at Tammy Daybell. Okay.

Okay. Listen to what Lori allegedly said to Zilema about Tammy. On the night, someone tried to shoot her. And then what happened when Lori received a phone call later that night? You would learn that she had been shot at by someone. Yes. Okay. Were you ever present with Lori around that time that Tammy was shot at? Yes, the same night. Lori told me that Tammy had been possessed by a demon and that it was no longer her kind of like the same thing that she had said about Charles and that she needed my help casting out from her. Okay. And did you guys do a casting on Tammy? Yes. Then afterwards, she received a phone call from someone. Okay. And was she near you when she got that phone call?

Yes. Okay. What was her attitude and demeanor when she got that phone call? She was very, very angry, scary angry. Okay. And now this is the night that Tammy was shot at. Correct. Okay, and so while she's on the phone, she appears angry and scary angry. Did you hear anything she said? Yes, she was using some very derogatory terms such as idiot, moron,

and just being very, very angry with whoever she was on the phone with. After she got off the phone, what did she say to you? She said, idiot, can't do anything. Right by himself. Okay, now, that certainly looks and helps the prosecution's case that Lori was instrumental in the conspiracy to kill Tammy Daybell. I mean, the language, the comments, the call. Is this all coincidence that this happens on the night someone tries to shoot Tammy?

And again, here's another example of Lori saying something problematic after Tammy dies. After you learned that Tammy was died, did you talk to Lori about that situation with her and Chad? Now that Tammy's gone, what did Lori say what's going to happen? Well, she said that, she said that Chatham and her had received instructions and visitations from angels that had come and taught them how to cast out demons, and now they knew how to do. do it. And that is the reason why Tammy had passed away because they were able to finally learn how to do casting of a demon. If the jury believes this, this is damaging to Lori. And the evidence has supported the theory that the muscle, the person who does all the dirty work in

these killings, is actually Alex Cox. In fact, here is what Alex allegedly told Zulema. What is going on? What is happening? How come they are, you know, they're not here. You don't even know where they're at. We don't even know where they're at. When you say they, who are you talking about? Laurie and Chad. We don't know where Lori and Chad are at. What is happening? And what reaction did he have? Ultimately, what did he say? He was very quiet and responsive. And then he said, I think I'm being their fall guy. Okay.

And what did you say? I said, a fall guy for what? What is it that you have done? What have you done that you would be the fall guy for? So it was like I kept pressuring him and I was so frustrated because he wasn't answering me. So I would walk away and he would say something and then I would come back and then I would pressure him again. And then he said, one of the times when I was walking away from him, he said, so I'm a, either I am a man of God or I am not. And then he dies the next day.

So if taken is true, and yes, this is her recollection of what he said. But if taken is true, they are talking about Tammy Daybell's death. And he said that he is their fall guy, not Chad's, but their fall guy, meaning Lori. is as much a part of this as Chad. So as we wrap off week one, I want to leave you with one more, what I believe is a damaging piece of evidence, and that is a phone call.

So while Lori is in jail on charges related to not turning over the kids when they were missing, she calls Chad, her husband, and it's recorded. And this call occurs when authorities are searching Chad's property. So remember, the kids aren't found yet. Listen to this exchange. No. Are you okay?

So they're searching the property. The house right now? Yeah. Yeah. No one is. So, Mark means we'll be talking to. Okay. What, are they in the house?

No, they're out in the property. from the property. Are they saving search again? They're searching the seed that kills fires. Okay. Okay, thank you for you. Okay. I feel pretty calm.

I feel pretty calm. Are they seizing stuff again? They're searching. the property, no surprise at what is happening at all by either of them. And remember, this trial is about Lori. Why is she not saying, well, what are they searching for? What's going on? Where are the kids? This all goes towards once again knowledge, but is knowledge enough? As I mentioned, the prosecution is building a circumstantial evidence case against Lori Valdebel. But to be clear, everything I laid out, in my opinion, I think, is some of the most damaging testimony

and evidence presented in court. But that doesn't mean that there's enough to convict beyond a reasonable doubt. The prosecution has to connect Lori to these deaths, and that's no simple task. They have to show she conspired to murder that there was an agreement. Someone took over its steps and furtherance of that agreement. They have to show that she murdered the kids, maybe not physically, but that she aided and abetted, advised, encouraged, compelled. Now, we're still in the early parts of this trial. So let's see what happens next. And that's all we have for you here on Sidebar, everybody. Thank you so much for joining us.

Please subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, wherever you get your podcast. I'm Jesse Weber. I'll speak to you next time. Thank you.