Law&Crime Sidebar - 7 Key Moments from Alex Murdaugh’s Heated Cross-Examination in Family Murders Trial

Episode Date: February 24, 2023

Prosecutor Creighton Waters cross-examined disgraced lawyer Alex Murdaugh Thursday and Friday after he took the stand in his family murders trial. Waters pressed Murdaugh on several occasions over the lies he’s told and financial crimes he’s committed. The Law&Crime Network’s Angenette Levy breaks down seven key moments from Alex Murdaugh’s heated cross-examination. LAW&CRIME SIDEBAR PRODUCTION:YouTube Management - Bobby SzokePodcasting - Sam GoldbergWriting & Video Editing - Michael DeiningerGuest Booking - Alyssa FisherSocial Media Management - Vanessa Bein & Kiera BronsonSUBSCRIBE TO OUR OTHER PODCASTS:Court JunkieObjectionsThey Walk Among AmericaCoptales and CocktailsThe Disturbing TruthSpeaking FreelyLAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandcrime/Twitter: https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetworkFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawandcrimeTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lawandcrimenetworkTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lawandcrimeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can binge all episodes of this Law and Crimes series ad-free right now. Join Wondry Plus in the Wondery app Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Agent Nate Russo returns in Oracle 3, Murder at the Grandview, the latest installment of the gripping Audible Original series. When a reunion at an abandoned island hotel turns deadly, Russo must untangle accident from murder. But beware, something sinister lurks in the grand. views shadows. Joshua Jackson delivers a bone-chilling performance in this supernatural thriller that

will keep you on the edge of your seat. Don't let your fears take hold of you as you dive into this addictive series. Love thrillers with a paranormal twist? The entire Oracle trilogy is available on Audible. Listen now on Audible. I just want everybody to understand. I do not dispute that I stole money that was not my money, that I misled people to do that. That I misled people to do that. That I led people that trusted me. Alec Murdoch on the hot seat under cross-examination, is he telling the truth or is he lying? The jury will have to decide. I'm Ann Jeanette Levy and welcome to Law and Crime Sidebar podcast.

One of the first things that Creighton Waters, the assistant attorney general representing the state of South Carolina did when he was cross-examining Alec Murdoch was ask him about his claim that he didn't trust sled and that's why he lied about being at the kennels on the night of the murders. It's curious because the Murdoch family has basically been a part of law enforcement for a century in the area. Murdoch was a volunteer assistant solicitor and carried a couple of badges, one belonging to him and one belonging to his grandfather. He was asked about carrying one when he and his dad showed up at the hospital on the night of the boat crash involving his son Paul. I'll show you what's been marked as states 569, and you recognize the person on the

right in that image? You know, sir? You don't recognize that? I don't recognize him. No, I'm asking about that. Oh, me. Is that you? Yeah, it looks like me. All right. What's hanging out of your pocket in plain goof? Looks like a badge. You didn't recall that until I just showed you that picture? No, sir, I did not. Your Honor, it off, states 569 in the evidence. Okay. For a minute. That's you in the white shirt.

Is that right? Yes, sir, it is. And this is the badge hanging out at your pocket. You remember which, is that correct? Looks to be, yes, sir. Which badge is that? Which one of the two, do you remember? No, you can't tell from here.

Okay. Why'd you have it hanging out of your pocket like that? I don't remember having that. I don't know. You don't remember that? I don't remember that, no, sir. Did you generally walk around with your badge hanging out of your pocket? Generally speaking, no, sir. I did not. Or only when you wanted some advantage from it. Did I...

Did you want some advantage from wearing it like that? Did I hang it out in my pocket when I wanted an advantage? Yes. I may have. I certainly may have. What advantage did you want? When? Then?

I don't even recall this, Mr. Waters. But if I was wanting some advantage, as you say it, I guess, and I don't remember this, but I guess I would want, you know, as I said, a badge has a warming effect with other law enforcement. And so if I was seeking any advantage, as you say, then I guess that would be what it was. All right, so we got the badge that may be accidentally hanging out of your pocket. You won't concede that you did that purpose for it. I mean, Mr. Waters, if you want me to say I did that on purpose,

I don't have a problem with that. I'm saying I don't remember that. All right. So can I tell you that I did that on purpose? No, sir. I can. Can I say that this happened by accident? No, sir, I can't. What I can say is, I don't remember it, and that's not how I would normally,

that's just not how I would normally, you know, that's just not, it's not something I did. That's not a normal thing. So I don't know. When asked by Creighton Waters, Alec Murdoch says he was aware there was a criminal investigation underway into the investigation of the boat crash and the claim that Alec Murdoch tried to influence the witnesses, the victims of that boat crash by getting them to not talk to law enforcement, among other things. Another really big moment on cross-examination happened when Alec Murdoch claimed that he wanted to meet with law enforcement after his arrest to tell them about his opioid addiction and other things involving the financial crimes. But Creighton Waters said there was no such meeting requested. Alec Murdoch didn't want to do that and he simply

changes his story to fit the evidence. And Mr. Waters, just to be clear, I was begging for a meeting with y'all to try to bring this to a close, to talk to y'all about everything up until the time that y'all charged me with hurting Maggie and Paul. Now, after that point in time, I stopped, obviously. You're saying that you were begging for a meeting, but you admit information was never conveyed, that you wanted to change your story after multiple interviews with law enforcement

about what happened that night including the most important fact of all which is when the last time you supposedly saw your wife and son alive was I don't know exactly what was conveyed or not to you because I wasn't part of it all I know is what I was trying to do

was to sit down I understood to bring all this to a close that y'all would want me to sit down and go through all of these financial things, all of these things that I'd done wrong

and to try to bring that to a close I was repeatedly trying to sit down with y'all. The reality is Mr. Murdoch is the reason why no one's ever heard that before is because you had to sit in this courtroom and hear your family and your friends

one after you other come in and testify that you were on that kennel video so you like you've done so many times over the course of your life, had to back up and make a new story that kind of fit with the facts that can't be denied. Isn't that true, sir? No, sir, that's not true. You've done that over and over again over the years with all of this that we've been talking about, haven't you? I've done what over and over again? The second that you're confronted with facts that you can't deny,

you immediately come up with a new lie. Isn't that correct? Mr. Waters, if we've established, I have lied many times, but I can't sit here and tell you that, what are you talking about facts that I can't deny, that I would disagree with that proposition that you're putting out that that was what I did all the time. But in doing that, I admit, again, that I have lied to people that trusted me. So we can agree that the prosecution and law enforcement and so many of your friends and family heard for the first time your story about the kennels yesterday after all these weeks of testimony, can we agree on that? That law enforcement, my partners, and my friends heard me say that for the first time.

Yes, I agree with that. I think everyone watching this case has been wondering where did all of the money go between $8 million and $10 million that Alec Murdoch has admitted to stealing from clients as he's testified. He was questioned about his lifestyle and whether or not he considered himself living a wealthy lifestyle. Would you concede with me that not all of this money was going to pills at this point in time? No. All this stolen money?

No, I doubt. that it was. Okay. And it was being used to support your wealthy lifestyle. Well, I haven't looked at all these documents to know exactly what was being spent where, but here's what I do know. I know that I was making a bunch of money, and I should have had more money than I did. And I know that I was spending a bunch of money on pills.

and I know that you know, I just I don't remember in 2011 if those land, I just can't remember those land deals but, you know, if I spent money on other things, I don't dispute that either. I just haven't looked at the records. Okay.

But you would at least concede that the money you were stealing was going to support your ever-expanding wealthy lifestyle. Would you concede that? Did all of the money I stole? Any of it, Mr. Murdoch? Any of it?

Yeah, I would certainly agree that there was money that didn't go to buy just pills. All right, and you would concede that even though you were generating millions of dollars in fees, that was not enough for you. Would you concede that? If I concede that, you mean was I also stealing money that I shouldn't have yesterday? sir, I agree with that. I've said that repeatedly. We know that Alec Murdoch has stolen from many clients. One of them was a teenager. Craton Waters questioned Alec Murdoch about that. Let's talk about, let's start with Natasha Thomas. Do you remember her? I do. How old was she when she became your client? I'm not sure if she was young. She was a teenager? I'm not sure,

but I know she was young. She was underage, correct? Yes, she was underage. I do believe that. In fact, I know that. And can you tell me what the, she was injured in this wreck with, in an automobile wreck, correct? Yes. And the company, Michelin, that was one of the defendants for an alleged tire issue. Is that correct? That is correct. All right.

And do you remember how much Natasha Thomas got in that particular case? And I can show it to you on 334. You remember how much she got? As a gross settlement, I believe it shows $2 million. $2 million. How much were your or P&PED's fees that would be attributed to you in that out of that $2 million? $800,000? Yes, sir.

All right. Excuse me. Yes, sir. All right. And so that would be $800,000 in fees that would get attributed to you. That has nothing to do with the money that you subsequently stole from that teenager. Correct? The $800,000 is different from money that I stole?

Yes. That's correct. All right. So you got $800,000 attributed to you with the firm, but that was not enough. You also stole money from that teenager. Is that correct? That is correct. All right?

When you did that, did you sit down with her, much as you sat down with this jury, and explained to her what was going on while you were stealing her money? That would be the normal process. but I certainly don't remember specifically doing that. That would be the normal process, correct? It would be. It may be a little different with a teenager, but certainly, I mean... You would sit down with them across the table and go through these documents, correct?

If that would not be abnormal, yes, sir. All right. And then you would explain to them what was going on and how they were getting everything they were entitled to, correct? If I was the one doing it, yes, sir. And you would look them in the eye while you'd. did that, correct? It wouldn't be unusual for me to look them into eye. While you were doing some fast talking to a teenager, correct? I certainly was not telling her the truth. I don't know if I was talking fast or slow, but I wasn't telling the truth. Crayton Waters also asked Alec Murdoch

about what he was doing the weekend before the murders. And basically, Murdoch and his wife Maggie were in Columbia for a baseball game. But Alec Murdoch was spending a lot of time in the hotel and water suggested he may have been doing that because he was agitated all right tell the jury where were you when these sets were taken place i was in the hotel and where what city were you in columbia south carolina all right and where we're back um i'm not exactly sure where they were first started but they would have been somewhere between a hotel a restaurant and the ball field all right but when you send this text on june 6th 1141 you say y'all in seat already correct yes that's what i did say and they say yeah maggie says yes we like these seats is that correct

all right that's correct i didn't notice that so at that point in time they are in the ballpark than last night they extended checkout to one going to come then is that correct that's what that text says yes sir all right so your back of the room is that right yes sir later on you text after she asked you to bring a charger and says Muggy you text I'm dreading it see you in a little bit is that correct that's what I said yes sir She responds, don't come. They've been asked about the charger and says it's hot.

Is that correct? Mr. Waters, yes, I assume you were reading it exactly, so. Yes, sir. All right. Not crowded, but not the place to come. If you don't feel well, very hot muggy, we are inside, sitting at the bar very nice indoors. Is that correct? That's what it says, yes, sir.

And then you respond, I'll you by accident. They are making me leave, so I'll see y'all in a few. Is that correct? That's correct. And who was making you leave where? It was past checkout time at the hotel. After you've gotten an extended checkout, correct? it appears so

and the reality is is that you were in that hotel suffering from withdrawals when that's going on is that correct I was beginning to, yes sir and the reality is is that

your wife and your son were on you at that time period because they had found pills just a few weeks prior? No, so that's not correct. Then Craton Waters moved on to the lead-up to that kennel video on the day of the murders. The all-important kennel video taken at 8.44 p.m. Murdoch talked about eating dinner with Paul and Maggie before Paul and Maggie went down to the

kennels. And what did you after that? I came back out, sat out on the couch to eat dinner. about what time was that a few minutes later I mean it didn't take me long to shower and you say Paul was already eating at that point

he was you say he left first what I said is he got up and he finished eating and he left our immediate vicinity now um

I don't believe he left at that point, given what I've looked at, time records, and I believe that he was around the house for a little bit longer. And just to be clear, but I didn't see him. All of this detail was, people were hearing for the first time yesterday, like we talked about before, correct? Say that again? All of this detail that we're going through right now is not anything that you related before. we're all hearing this for the first time yesterday. Objection, Your Honor.

Fifth Amendment privilege. Objection is overruled. So, yes, I did not tell law enforcement. Actually, I don't think law enforcement asked me what I did when we first went to the House, but I clearly lied to law enforcement about what I said yesterday. Okay. And all of this, the last time you saw your supposedly saw your wife and child, all of this detail, you as a lawyer and a prosecutor didn't think that was important to offer on your own?

Well, I think it's important. You told this jury how cooperative you've been and how much information you wanted to provide, but you left out the most important parts, didn't you? you. I left out. I left out that. I sure did. You don't consider that one of the most important parts? I think it's important. Now, since the murders happened, Alec Murdoch has never mentioned being down at the kennels with Paul and Maggie. But on the stand, he had to admit it because his voice is on the video. We've all heard it. That kennel video happened and was taken by Paul at 8.44 p.m. Nobody knew about that video until March of 2020.

almost a year after the murders. Alec Murdoch says that he took that chicken out of Bubba's mouth and then went straight back to the house. Prosecutors, though, say five minutes later, Paul and Maggie were murdered. Listen to Alec Murdoch's explanation. Down there for a couple minutes, I think you've said now, before you get off the golf cart?

About, yes, sir. All right. And where do you go at that point? I take the chicken from Bubba. All right. So you get up? Well, I mean, Bubba's, you know, Bubba's come out there with this chicken. I mean, he's showing us, hey, I caught this chicken, and I take the chicken from Bubba.

The Bubba came up to the golf cart. He came up by the golf cart. He came up to Maggie and I, which I was on the golf cart. She's by the golf cart. I mean, he's not coming to the golf cart, but he's coming to us. Is this during the kennel video or is this after the kennel video? Well, no, you hear Maggie say he's got a chicken. That's what she's talking about is Bubba caught a chicken.

All right. All right. So is the kennel video still going on before you go get the chicken? I mean, you've heard it, correct? You've heard it in this courtroom. I don't know exactly. I don't know exactly, but in close timing to Bubba coming out of those woods with the chicken, I got up and took the chicken from him.

So did you say goodbye? according to your new story did I say goodbye yeah did you talk to them at all or did you just get the chicken put on there jump on there and just take off I wouldn't have just gone off I mean I would have said I'm leaving okay did I say goodbye bye and again go ahead I mean there would have been some you know there there would have been some exchange I'm not staying here what was that exchange I mean you have you've had such a photographic memory about these new stories what what what happened in here? That's not. I can't tell you the exact words. You don't remember your conversation

after you put that chicken up. Did y'all talk about the chicken? No, I don't think we did. Did you talk with Paul about Cash's Tale? After the chicken? Yeah. No, I know I didn't do that. Did you tell Maggie I'm going to go check on him? At that point, no, I don't think I did. Did you tell Maggie, oh, it's hide out here if they'll go back? I certainly would have said something to that effect. All right. So unlike everything else for the new story, you just can't recall what that would have been. Well, you know, I mean, you're making that categorization.

I think there's other things about that that I can't remember. But if the question is, can I remember exactly what words I used when I gave Maggie some salutation when I'm leaving? I can't tell you what those were. All right. But it would have been something to the effect of, I'm leaving. All right. Okay. What you would have concede that there was at least some conversation

that you wouldn't have just put the chicken on there and jumped, ran back to the golf cart and taken off. Without talking to Maggie, I would have never done that. And that's it for the top moments from the cross-examination of Alec Murdoch. Thanks so much for joining us. You can download and listen to Sidebar on Apple, Spotify, Google, and wherever else you get your podcasts. And of course, you can always watch it on Law.

and crimes YouTube channel. I'm Anjanette Levy, and we will see you next time. You can binge all episodes of this law and crime series ad free right now on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.