Law&Crime Sidebar - 8 Shocking Secret Service Answers in Donald Trump Assassination Attempt Hearing

Episode Date: July 22, 2024

U.S. Secret Service director Kimberly Cheatle testified during a congressional hearing Monday about the agency’s failure to protect presidential nominee Donald Trump during a rally earlier this month. Thomas Matthew Crooks, 20, fired multiple shots from a nearby rooftop, striking the former president in the ear and killing at least one civilian. Since the shooting, there have been multiple allegations of mismanagement. Law&Crime’s Jesse Weber breaks down the top revelations from Cheatle’s testimony.PLEASE SUPPORT THE SHOW: Download the FREE Upside App at https://upside.app.link/sidebar to get an extra 25 cents back for every gallon on your first tank of gas.HOST:Jesse Weber: https://twitter.com/jessecordweberLAW&CRIME SIDEBAR PRODUCTION:YouTube Management - Bobby SzokeVideo Editing - Michael Deininger and Christina FalconeScript Writing & Producing - Savannah WilliamsonGuest Booking - Alyssa Fisher & Diane KayeSocial Media Management - Vanessa BeinSTAY UP-TO-DATE WITH THE LAW&CRIME NETWORK:Watch Law&Crime Network on YouTubeTV: https://bit.ly/3td2e3yWhere To Watch Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3akxLK5Sign Up For Law&Crime's Daily Newsletter: https://bit.ly/LawandCrimeNewsletterRead Fascinating Articles From Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3td2IqoLAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandcrime/Twitter: https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetworkFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawandcrimeTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lawandcrimenetworkTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lawandcrimeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can binge all episodes of this Law and Crimes series ad-free right now. Join Wondry Plus in the Wondery app Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Agent Nate Russo returns in Oracle 3, Murder at the Grandview, the latest installment of the gripping Audible Original series. When a reunion at an abandoned island hotel turns deadly, Russo must untangle accident from murder. But beware, something sinister lurks in the grand. View Shadows. Joshua Jackson delivers a bone-chilling performance in this supernatural thriller that

will keep you on the edge of your seat. Don't let your fears take hold of you as you dive into this addictive series. Love thrillers with a paranormal twist? The entire Oracle trilogy is available on Audible. Listen now on Audible. My name is Kimberly Cheadle and I'm the director of the United States Secret Service. The assassination attempt of former President Donald Trump on July 13th is the most significant operational failure of the Secret Service in decades. We don't want to lose a presidential candidate to an AR-15 attack. It's the agency in charge of keeping our president safe, and now its leader is in the hot seat more than a week after a gunman was able to fire shots at former President Donald

Trump coming dangerously close to killing him. We are taking a closer look at Director Kimberly Cheedel's testimony before Congress as She faces louder and louder calls to resign. Welcome to Sidebar, presented by Law and Crime. I'm Jesse Weber. Questions, explanations, answers. This is an important day in the Donald Trump shooting because the director of the Secret Service, Kimberly Cheedell,

has testified in front of the House Oversight Committee regarding the horrific shooting that took place on July 13th at a pro-Trump rally. Butler, Pennsylvania. This is when authorities say 20-year-old Thomas Matthew Crooks climbed on top of a building and aimed an AR-15-style rifle at current Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump and opened fire, ultimately hitting Trump in the ear as he spoke in front of a crowd of supporters. One of the men attending the rally, 50-year-old Corey Comparatore, was shot and killed while reportedly trying to shield his wife and children from gunfire. At least two other

civilians were seriously injured, David Dutch and James Copenhaver, and while Secret Service agents swarmed the stage to protect the former president, get him to safety, and a counter-sniper team was able to instantly neutralize the shooter, how could this happen? How did this happen in the first place? What will be the fallout for the Secret Service? And why do I say that? I say that because as we previously have reported here on Sidebar, there seem to have been a lot of lapses here. Reporting indicates that Secret Service identified. crooks as a suspicious character, an hour before the shooting, because they saw him with a range finder in a backpack, that a sniper team spotted crooks 20 minutes before the shooting, that even

a photo was snapped of him and sent to command, and then how 10 minutes before Trump walked on stage, the Secret Service supposedly changed their assessment, classifying crooks as a threat. Now, again, this is what the reporting has indicated, although as we will hear in a minute, that may or may not be true. There has also been reporting that spectators and law enforcement saw Crooks scale the building where he ultimately set up his position, and one officer even confronted Crooks on the roof, but allegedly jumped off when Crooks pointed the weapon at him, which also begs the question about how the roof wasn't secured. Crooks was positioned about 150 yards away, and there's been cross talk about whether it was the Secret Service or law enforcement's job to sweep and secure the roof,

And reporting indicates that a local sniper team was positioned in the building, but not on top. And Cheadle's comments regarding the possible danger of positioning her team on the roof because it was sloped. That has drawn a lot of criticism. And despite all of that, despite everything I said, Trump was allowed to take that stage. Was his team notified what happened? There were reports that the Secret Service had refused to grant some of the Trump campaign. campaigns requests for additional security and assets. And at first, the agency denied that.

But then over the weekend, seemingly there was an admission that there were times that agents were used elsewhere because in a statement to ABC News, secret service spokesperson Anthony Guglemy said, quote, in some instances where specific secret service specialized units or resources were not provided, the agency made modifications to ensure the security of the protectee. This may include utilizing state or local partners to provide specialized functions or otherwise identifying alternatives to reduce public exposure of a protectee. Now, the Department of Homeland Security Inspector General has opened at least three investigations into what went wrong. The FBI is currently leading a criminal investigation into the assassination attempt.

House Speaker Mike Johnson has pledged congressional resources for yet another investigation. And that brings us to director Kimberly Cheatham. a nearly three-decade veteran of the Secret Service. She has previously said she will not resign as director, although there have been calls for her to do just that. So, with all of that as a backdrop, the House Oversight and Accountability Committee subpoenaed Director Cheadle to appear Monday.

And that is what we want to get into now, the testimony from Monday's hearing. because maybe we'll get concrete answers and confirmations of some of the things I laid out. Or maybe we won't. Let's see. Now, to be clear, we couldn't include everything from this hearing. Otherwise, it would be like a five-hour episode, but here are some of the highlights. First things first.

After some opening remarks from representatives James Comer and Jamie Raskin, we heard an opening statement from director Cheeto. And one of the things she seemed to do was, A, take accountability. while also acknowledging the great work of her team that day. But pay very careful attention to what she says at the end of this. The Secret Service's solemn mission is to protect our nation's leaders. On July 13th, we failed. As a director of the United States Secret Service, I take full responsibility for any security lapse of our agency.

We are fully cooperating with ongoing investment. investigations. We must learn what happened and I will move heaven and earth to ensure that an incident like July 13th does not happen again. Let me state unequivocally. Nothing I have said should be interpreted to place blame for this failure on our federal, state, or local law enforcement partners who supported the Secret Service in Butler. We could not do our job without them. We rely on the relationships built over years of working together to secure events and conduct investigations. Our agents, officers, and support personnel understand that every day we are expected to sacrifice our lives to execute a no-fail mission. As witnessed on July 13th,

our special agents shielded former President Trump with their own bodies on stage while shots were being fired. Selflessly willing to make the ultimate sacrifice without hesitation, I am proud beyond words of the actions taken by the former president's detail, the counter-sniper team who neutralized the gunman, and the tactical team who was prepared to act. I will be transparent as possible when I speak with you, understanding, though, at times that I may be limited in providing a thorough response in this open setting

due to associated risks with sharing highly sensitive protective methodologies. I do not want to inadvertently provide you today with inaccurate information. That last part's important, that she may be limited in what she can say, because that definitely colored all of her testimony, because during her testimony, she really doesn't provide full, complete answers and points to the fact that, well, we're still early in the investigation and how she doesn't want to contradict the official reports that could come out, and also how they're still learning information, and how the FBI are the ones looking into certain aspects of the shooting. As you will see, that created a lot of frustration. Hey there, everybody, I want to thank

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Yes, sir. Obviously, there were many security failures on the day of the attempted assassination and leading up to that day. Let's start with the building that the shooter used to shoot President Trump from. At any point Saturday, did the Secret Service have an agent on top of that roof? Sir, I'm sure, as you can imagine, that we are just nine days out from this incident, and there's still an ongoing investigation. And so I want to make sure that any information that we are providing to you as factual. Okay.

Why did the Secret Service not, can you answer why the Secret Service didn't place a single agent on the roof? We are still looking into the advanced process and the decisions that were made. Okay, okay. Wasn't that building within the perimeter that should be secured? Do we agree with that? The building was outside of the perimeter on the day of the visit. But again, that is one of the things that during the investigation,

we want to take a look at and determine whether or not other decisions should have been made. One of the things that you said, I believe, in an interview, that there wasn't an agent on the roof because it was a sloped roof. Is that normal? And do you fear that that immediately creates an opportunity for future would-be assassins to look for a slanted roof? I mean, this is a huge question that every American has. Why wasn't a Secret Service agent on the roof? And there have been reports that agents were supposed to be on the roof, but it was hot that day and they didn't want to be on the roof. Can you answer any of those questions, Director? So I appreciate you asking me that question, Chairman. I should have been more clear in my

answer when I spoke about where we placed personnel in that interview. What I can tell you is that there was a plan in place to provide overwatch, and we are still looking into responsibilities and who was going to provide overwatch. But the Secret Service in general, not speaking specific, to this incident, when we are providing overwatch, whether that be through counter-sniper's or other technology, prefer to have sterile rooftops. How many secret service agents were assigned to President Trump on the day of the rally?

Again, I'm not going to get into the specifics of the numbers of personnel that we had there, but we feel that there was a sufficient number of agents assigned. There are reports that several agents assigned to the rally on July 13th were temporary agents, Agents not normally assigned to President Trump. Is that accurate? What I can tell you is that the agents that were assigned to former President Trump

are Secret Service agents that provide close protection to him, and that was what was actual on that day. How many temporary agents were there that day? Quite frequently, sir, during campaign events, the Secret Service utilizes agents from HSI or the Department of Homeland Security. You don't know how many? supplement our plan. Before July 13th, had the Trump detail requested additional resources?

What I can tell you is that for the event on July 13th, the details that were the assets that were requested for that day were given. And focusing on that idea about whether Donald Trump's campaign had requested more assets or security and was denied, Representative Jim Jordan really hammered, Director Cheadle on this. Director, were you guessing or lying? The day after President Trump is shot, Secret Service spokesman Anthony Gugliami said, quote, the assertion that a member of the former President's security team requested additional security resources

that the U.S. Secret Service or the Department of Homeland Security rebuffed is absolutely false. The next day, Secretary Maurek has said that is an unequivocally false assertion we had not received any request for additional security measures that were rebuffed. But five days later, the Washington Post said this. Top officials repeatedly rejected requests from Donald Trump's security detail for more personnel. The next day, the New York Times said this. Mr. Gugliami acknowledged that the Secret Service had turned down some request for additional federal security assets for Mr. Trump's detail. So which is it?

Because both statements can't be true. Were you guessing or lying when you said you didn't turn down requests from President Trump's detail. Neither, sir, and I appreciate the question. What were you doing because those statements don't jive? So what I can tell you is that for the event in Butler, there were no requests that were denied. As far as requests...

Well, maybe they got tired of asking. Maybe you turned them down so darn much. They said, not worth asking. How many times did you turn them down ahead of that? I think that it is important to distinguish between what some people may. view as a denial of an asset or a request. Well, is Mr. Gugliami, your spokesperson? He said he acknowledged the Secret Service had turned down some requests.

I'm asking how many? A denial of a request does not equal a vulnerability. Well, tell me what it is. There are a number of ways that threats and risks can be mitigated with a number of different assets, whether that be through personnel, whether that be through technology or other resources. Well, tell the committee which it was. They asked for additional help in some form or another. You told them no. How many times did you tell them no and what did you tell them no too? Again, I can not speak to specific incidents, but I can tell you in general

terms, the Secret Service is judicious with their resources based on... What does some requests mean? How many times? Some indicate request is plural. So more than once, they asked for additional help, and you turned them down. What did they ask for, and how many times you turned them down? Pretty basic questions. So, again, without having all of the details in front of me, sir, what I can tell you is that there are times... You didn't get briefed on how many times you turned down the Trump detail when they asked

for additional help? I'm sorry. You didn't get briefed on that before you came to this hearing, knowing you were going to get asked that question? What I can tell you is that in generic terms, when people, when details make a request, there are times that there are alternate ways. to cover off on that threat or that risk that's not what he said but i have to be clear about something this wasn't just republicans going after director chito no no no no no this is a bipartisan hearing

both sides of the aisle demanded answers as to how one of the most infamous political crimes of all time was committed so with that here's democrat representative jamie raskin asking pointed specific questions about the threat level of Thomas Matthew Crooks. And again, how on earth he could have done this? Before former President Trump got up on the stage at around 6 p.m. on Saturday, July 13th, that the local police had identified and even photographed a man who was acting suspiciously. And this man who turned out to be the gunman had been flagged as a potential threat. Is that accurate? What I can say is that the individual was identified as suspicious. So he was known to be suspicious before former President

Trump took the stage. That is the information I have received. Why was he allowed to take this stage with a suspicious person having been identified in the crime? So I appreciate the question and I'd like to make two points. If the detail had been passed information that there was a threat, the detail would never have brought the former president out onto stage. That is what we do and that is who we are. We are charged with protecting all

of our protectees. So you distinguish between someone who is suspicious and someone who's threatening? Is that right? There are a number of times at protective events where suspicious people are identified and those individuals have to be investigated and determined what is it that

identifies that person as suspicious. So the Secret Service did not know that the gunmen actually had a weapon before President Trump was allowed to get up on the stage? To the best of our knowledge and the facts that we have at this point, that is correct. So can you answer this question, which I think is on the mind of most Americans thinking about this? How can a 20-year-old with his father's AR-15 assault weapon climb on to a roof with a direct 150-yard line of sight to the speaker's podium him without the Secret Service or local police stopping him.

So again, sir, I will say we are nine days out from this event, and I would like to know those answers as well, which is why we are going through these investigations to be able to determine that fully. Okay. It's been reported that the shooter was not carrying a driver's license or any form of identification. They had no idea who he was, but then he was quickly identified, I think, within in 30 minutes by using the serial number on the AR-15 under a tracing system that is now controversial. Some people say we should get rid of it.

Some people want to keep it. But is that right that the serial number was the key information which led to the identification of the shooter? That is my understanding, sir, yes. What went wrong? What would you say? Again, knowing that we're nine days out, I would say, as I have said from the first of, very outset. I accept responsibility for this tragedy. We are going to look into how this happened,

and we are going to take corrective action to ensure that it never happens again. And that brings me to another point. Director Cheadle had insisted during the hearing that she is waiting for a final FBI report and also an internal assessment that itself could take about 60 days before it comes out, all to understand again what went wrong and so forth. Well, Representative Alexander Ocasio-Cortez was not happy with that and also asked a very important question about the perimeter. Again, the idea that the building that Crooks was positioned on top of was outside of that security perimeter.

We are currently in the midst of an especially concentrated presidential campaign in the moment. That is also paired with, of course, elections happening across the country. They're happening in about 100 days. So the notion of a report coming out in 60 days when the threat environment is so high in the United States, irrespective of party, is not acceptable. And I think it's very important to understand that. This is not theater. This is not about jockeying. This is about the safety of some of the most highly targeted and valued targets internationally and domestically in the United States of America. So the idea that a report will be finalized in 60 days, let alone prior to any actionable decisions that would be made is simply not acceptable.

It has been 10 days since an assassination attempt on a former president of the United States, regardless of party. There need to be answers. Again, this party, this committee, this is not a moment of theater. We have to make policy decisions, and we have to make them now. I want to assure you and everyone on this committee that I'm not waiting for a report to take action. We have been conducting analysis all along, and we have been adding additional features to our security details since this incident occurred. you established earlier that the building upon which the shooter operated from was outside of that established perimeter correct for the butler pennsylvania event it was outside of our secure perimeter yes now that that building was i believe 500 how far away was that building from from the president uh it was approximately 200 yards 200 yards now The individual used an AR-15 in order to act out his assassination attempt.

An AR-15 has a range of about four to 600 yards. My question is why does the Secret Service perimeter, why is the Secret Service protective perimeter shorter than one of the most popular semi-automatic weapons in the United States? there are a number of weapons out there with a number of ranges again an advance was completed the determination of the perimeter i'm not going to speak to specifics but there are a number of factors that are taken into account when we determine our perimeter some of it has to do with terrain some of it has to do with buildings some of it has to do with assets and resources

that are available and then there was this part so not surprisingly politicians including current and former presidents of the United States, they have threats on their lives. Well, what about the idea that there is a threat on Donald Trump's life from Iran? Because House Intelligence Chair Mike Turner explained how after the killing of an Iranian military official back in 2020, there had been a threat on Donald Trump's life. Well, given what just happened, are the Secret Service protocols adequate? what happens if the shooter at that rally was an Iranian assassin? Director Chito, have you read the intelligence of the generalized threat to Donald Trump by Iran

as a result of their desire to retaliate for the killing of Salmonelli? Excuse me, Salamani. I have. Have you read or been briefed about the intelligence of the specific recent threat to Donald Trump from Iran? Yes, I have. Director Ray, when we were getting our briefing, indicated that he thought the threat assessment should have included this threat from Iran. Is it your testimony today that the threat assessment, since you've read this intelligence,

was sufficient to protect him from this threat from Iran? My testimony today is that the information that we had at the time was known. Was it sufficient? Director Chedal, was it sufficient for the Iranian threat that you said you have read the intelligence briefings for? That information was passed to... Well, I'm not asking the bureaucratic issue of who did it get passed around to. Director Chedal, was it sufficient for the specific and generalized threat to Donald Trump's life from Iran? Yes, I do believe it was.

Director Chedal is an Iranian assassin more capable than a 20-year-old? Sir, I think we've acknowledged that there was gaps and a failure that day. When I raised this issue with Director Ray, he was incensed. He was shocked that the threat assessment of Iran did not seem to be, as we and I discussed, baked in to your security footprint and your threat assessment. And he went on to say that the generalized threat that he has told the whole country that we are under from a terrorist, a potential terrorist threat, He has said we're under the highest threat level since 9-11 that the lights are flashing red. And he has specifically indicated that people have crossed the southern border as a result of the Biden administration's policy and that there are in our country today terrorists and individuals who are affiliated with terrorist groups and organizations.

That would be a heightened threat environment, Director Chito. Would it not? Yes. Yeah. And look, some of Director Chitel's comments were arguably quite concerning. and she was caught in a bad position. Have you visited the site? No, I have not. Nine days, and you have not visited the site. Okay, there wasn't a cat team, a full cat team on site,

there wasn't counter surveillance teams on site. But this is the thing. You just said you had the ability to beef up the security. You knew about the threat, and you didn't. The shooter has visited the site two more times than you have, and he had a drone, and he picked the AGR building. So you said, do you remember in an ABC interview you did that you didn't have people on the roof of the AGR building

because you were worried about safety because of the slope? I recall that statement. Does the Secret Service have written policy you can share with us about slope roofs? No. Okay. So why'd you act like there was one? Because isn't your practice the comment on enormous events

of enormous national implications when you're ignorant of the facts? That's rhetorical. So here's this thing with the slopes. You go all up to like 18, 12, you can get to a 112, which is about as flat as you can get without it being completely flat. And you're saying that there was a danger, safety concern there. But the problem is, Director, you put your counter-snipers on a 312 roof, which is

steeper than the 112. And by the way, the 112 is ADA compliant. You can build a ramp for a wheelchair on a 112 roof. So these are nothing but pathetic excuses, and they make no sense, and they're a bunch of cow-dum. All the law enforcement I've spoken with over the last nine days are amazed that the AGR rooftop was not secure. And you want to know why? Because it's dangerous. I have never had any long gun training in my life.

I own an AR-15, and last time I shot it, I shot it one time my whole life was six years ago. That is until Saturday. We were recreated the events in Savoy, Texas. We recreated what happened to bother. I was lying prone on a slope roof at 130 yards at 6.30 at night. And I knew that he had a scope, but I didn't know. what kind, red dot, or magnified. So I shot eight rounds from both. You know what the result was? 15 out of 16 kill shots. And the one I missed would have hit the president's ear. That's a 94% success

rate. And that shooter was a better shot than me. It is a miracle President Trump wasn't killed. Corey compared tori's life is over because that damn shooter made it on the roof. And it wasn't the roof that was dangerous. It was a nut job on top of the roof. You know what else is dangerous. I believe you're horrifying in aptitude and your lack of skilled leadership is a disgrace. You're obvious skating today is shameful and you should be fired immediately and go back to Garden Doritos. Mr. Chamon, I'll go back. That last part was because she was apparently the head of global security at PepsiCo. Or how about this one? Because at one point, Director Chito was shown videos of spectators that day at the rally, seemingly pointing out the shooter before he opened fire.

And this was to highlight the idea of how could you not classify this guy as a threat. We have firm up here, right on the roof, he's right on the route. She's clearing up now. It happened. He went on the roof we got. Up here. Ma'am, that doesn't look like suspicious behavior. That looks like threatening behavior to me.

And the rally wasn't pause at that point either, correct? I can tell you, as I stated earlier, sir, that the moment. that the shift surrounding the president were aware of an actual threat. That's a threat right there. The guy's on the roof and everybody's yelling at him. Yes. And directing the officer's attention to him. The rally was not paused at that point, correct?

We are currently still combing through communications and when communications were passed. Well, I can point you to this communication is two minutes before the shots started ringing out. Director Chedal, yes or no. Was there ever a moment where the Secret Service actually considered pausing the rally? The Secret Service would have paused the rally had they known or been told if there was an actual threat. The answer is no. Correct? I can speak to you in generalities.

No, no. I don't know all of the communications. The answer is no. You did not consider pausing the rally, correct? The people that are in charge of protecting the president on that day. would never bring the former president out if there was a threat that had been identified. Well, they did because we've now identified three points and the 20 minutes before the shooting that the threat emerged. Now, to be clear, Director Cheadle did say there were failures that day.

She said that this shooting could have been prevented. She said that this was either a result of a gap in planning or a breakdown in communication. However, it's not entirely clear what that means. The overall theme of today's hearing from the lawmakers was that it was incredibly frustrating for them that Director Cheatel didn't have answers they were looking for. Again, either because she refused to answer or she didn't know the answer or she doesn't have the information or she doesn't want to contradict herself with something that will come out later in a report. But, on the other side, nine days after the shooting, the lawmakers and you, the American people, could say, we expect something? Both sides of the aisle today have asked for your resignation. Would you like to use my five minutes to draft your resignation letter?

Yes or no. No, thank you. I have no idea how my statement got out. Well, that's bull-hs. On July 15th, this committee sent you a list of demands of information that we wanted. Has the Secret Service provided this committee a complete list of all law enforcement personnel that were there that day? Have you done that? Have you provided a list to the Oversight Committee? Yes or no?

I'll have to get back to you on that. That is a no. Have you provided all audio and video recordings in your possession to this committee, as we asked on July 15th? Yes or no? I would have to get back to you on that. That is a no. You're full of shit today. You're just being completely dishonest.

Mr. Chairman, I want to... Mr. I'm going to continue. We have to maintain decorum in this committee no matter how upset we get. Have you provided any and all memos to this committee that we've asked you on July 15th? Have you provided all memorandums within the Secret Service? I would have to get back to you on that. That is a no. You are being dishonest or lying.

You're being dishonest here with this committee. These are important questions that the American people want answers to, and you're just dodging and talking around it in generalities. Why was the building, the ARG, building placed outside of the perimeter when clearly it was close enough for someone to launch an attack. So again, sir, we are looking into all of the details of how the advanced was comprised, but I can tell you that there was overwatch on that building provided that day. By a drone?

I'm not going to get into the specifics of technology or assets that were used in this form. I think it's fair to say the Overwatch failed because the shooter got up on the roof and stayed there for a while and people had pointed him out. So do you think that your Overwatch was a failure in that case? I think that we need to know the full details to understand how this occurred. Have any employees been disciplined for their role in Butler PA incident? No sir not at this time. I am asking those questions. So no employee has been disciplined and no employee has been placed in any

position that would place their job in jeopardy, nor they're standing in the agency. We are still in the process of interviewing people. That's not what I asked. You're the person that runs the place. You're the person that knows right from wrong, good from bad. You've had a number of days, and now you come before this committee, knowing you're going to be before us, and you've got to sluff it off to someone else. Do you see where there was something that went wrong as a professional agency but 28 years or do you have to count on someone else

to give you the final report? I see that something went wrong and I've acknowledged that something went wrong. Then what went wrong? Was the special agent in charge not doing their job? Was the shooter not, was the shooter given extra time?

Was the sniper doing their job? I mean, these are things that people who've been around for 28 years can analyze quickly. I watched it live on TV. And then within minutes saw a number of facts and factors that would have and should have been known by people who were there. You've got 28 years. You're showing up here telling us and the American public, well, I've got to wait for the final answer. What is your evaluation? I'm asking those same questions. Well, no, you're before the committee. Tell us what went wrong. And what's also kind of interesting about this, and it was highlighted by Representative Daniel Goldman,

was that Director Chedal had given answers to the media, like she did an interview with ABC News. But she wasn't as forthcoming or responsive in her answers to Congress under oath as she was to the media. And again, both sides of the aisle took issue with Director. Cheeto here. At the time of this recording, we shall see what the fallout will be for director Kimberly Cheeto, whether she will resign or whether she will be fired, which our understanding would come at the hands of President Joe Biden in coordination with Director of Homeland Security Alejandro Mayorkas. But the bottom line is, this shooting should never have happened. We still don't understand why it happened, how it happened. And this hearing, unfortunately,

didn't clear any of that up for us. And yes, you could say it was only nine days out. She wasn't the one who even wanted to testify. She was compelled to testify. They chose when she would testify. But she also would have to understand why there would be this sense of frustration or even distrust after her remarks or lack of answers today, right? So we didn't get more clarity. But the questions will definitely keep on coming.

and hopefully the answers will come soon. That's all we have for you right now here on Sidebar, everybody. Thank you so much for joining us. And as always, please subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jesse Weber. I'll speak to you next time. series, ad free right now on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.