Law&Crime Sidebar - 9 Disturbing Moments from Mom of School Shooter’s Testimony Defending Herself
Episode Date: February 2, 2024Jennifer Crumbley, 45, is the first parent in the United States to face charges in a school shooting committed by their child. Crumbley’s teenage son opened fire inside his Michigan high sc...hool in 2021, killing four students. Prosecutors accuse Crumbley and her husband of involuntary manslaughter for giving their son access to a handgun and not taking his mental health struggles seriously. Crumbley took to the stand Thursday to explain her side of the story. Law&Crime’s Jesse Weber breaks down the top nine moments from her gripping testimony.PLEASE SUPPORT THE SHOW: Go to https://dealdash.com/LawCrime100 for 100 free bids with your first bid pack purchase now!HOST:Jesse Weber: https://twitter.com/jessecordweberLAW&CRIME SIDEBAR PRODUCTION:YouTube Management - Bobby SzokePodcasting - Sam GoldbergVideo Editing - Michael DeiningerScript Writing & Producing - Savannah WilliamsonGuest Booking - Alyssa Fisher & Diane KayeSocial Media Management - Vanessa BeinSTAY UP-TO-DATE WITH THE LAW&CRIME NETWORK:Watch Law&Crime Network on YouTubeTV: https://bit.ly/3td2e3yWhere To Watch Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3akxLK5Sign Up For Law&Crime's Daily Newsletter: https://bit.ly/LawandCrimeNewsletterRead Fascinating Articles From Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3td2IqoLAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandcrime/Twitter: https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetworkFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawandcrimeTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lawandcrimenetworkTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lawandcrimeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
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Agent Nate Russo returns in Oracle 3, Murder at the Grandview,
the latest installment of the gripping Audible Original series.
When a reunion at an abandoned island hotel turns deadly,
Russo must untangle accident from murder.
But beware, something sinister lurks in the grand.
View Shadows. Joshua Jackson delivers a bone-chilling performance in this supernatural thriller that
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addictive series. Love thrillers with a paranormal twist? The entire Oracle trilogy is available on
Audible. Listen now on Audible. If you could change what happened, would you? Oh, absolutely. I wish he
would have killed us instead. Extramarital affairs, parents may be on the run from police, and a parent cries for
help from a teen who would soon become a school shooter. It is all being revealed in the Michigan
trial of Jennifer Crumbly, the mother of the convicted killer. But now we have Jennifer
Crumley, the defendant herself on the stand, and there is a lot to break down. Welcome to
Sidebar, presented by Law and Crime. I'm Jesse Weber. I've said this before. I'm going to say it
again. I cannot emphasize enough how important this trial happening in Michigan is right now for
Christopher Crumbley. Why do I say that? I say that because Crumbly is the first parent in American
history to be criminally charged for a mass shooting that their child committed. Her husband,
he goes to trial next month, but we're talking about Jennifer Crumbly right now. Jennifer
Crumbly, her husband, James, they are being tried separately on charges of involuntary manslaughter,
and their son opened fire inside of Oxford High School in Michigan in 2021, killing four students.
Now, the shooter himself entered a guilty plea, serving a life sentence.
The prosecution contends that the Crumblies not only bought their 15-year-old son a handgun,
but also ignored signs that he needed mental health troop.
The idea here is that they were negligence, that the negligence was a cause for this shooting,
that it was reasonably foreseeable that this could happen and that they failed to act,
disregarding the warning signs, disregarding the risks.
So she faces four counts of involuntary manslaughter, with our understanding,
being that each one carries up to 15 years in prison.
Now, over the past week or so, the state has presented pages and pages of text messages,
social media messages, photos, journal entries, and more.
They've called multiple witnesses to the stand.
Those witnesses included professionals like detectives and digital forensics experts,
school officials, as well as victims who survived the shooting.
Prosecution once again played video from inside the school showing what happened during
that shooting.
Crumbly, when this was going on, she kept her head down and cried.
Now, school officials, they testified about how the shooter acted in school and concerns that were raised about his mental health.
The shooter was caught looking at bullets while at school and also wrote in an autobiography poem that his family was a mistake.
The parents were also called to the school when their son drew a gun on a test paper.
Officials testified that despite being encouraged to get their son to see a counselor as soon as possible,
Crumbly's allowed their son to stay in school that day.
said that they needed to return to work, and not long after, only a few hours later,
he would open fire.
So they really stacked up the evidence against Jennifer Crumbly.
And there was a lot of it.
There was a lot of it that, honestly, in my opinion, I think the opinion of a lot of people
are watching this, who will say it looks really bad.
For example, Detective Timothy Willis, with the Oakland County Sheriff's Office testified
about all of these notes found in the shooter's journals.
In reading the journal, where there are passages in there indicative of requests for mental health,
health, help?
Yes.
Can you read what's been identified here as page six of that journal?
Yes, the shooter writes, I have zero help, as you can see how old, for my mental problems,
and it's causing me to shoot up to fucking school.
I'm going to move on to page five.
Can you read this passage quickly?
In this one, the shooter writes, I want help, but my parents don't listen to me, and I can't get any help.
Now, this is page 19.
Can you read that?
Yes.
Shooter writes,
My parents won't listen to me about help or therapist.
Sir, in that journal where there entries about the shooter's desire to obtain a 9-millimeter handgun?
Yes.
This is also Exhibit 4-1, page 22.
Could you read those quotes, please?
Yes, the shooter writes, I want to shoot up the school so badly.
Soon, I'm going to buy a 9mm pistol.
Sir, were there any passages regarding the shooter's plan for the actual shooting?
Yes, there were.
Okay.
Here's page 3.
Also, I give it 4-01.
Could you read that, please?
Yes.
Shooter writes, I'm about to shoot up the school and spend the rest of my life in prison.
Were there any journal entries about the shooter's access to the 9-millimeter handgun?
There were.
This is also Exhibit 401, also page 3.
Could you read that, please?
Yes, sir.
The shooter writes, first off, I got my gun.
It's an SP 222-6-R-9-millimeter.
Second, the shooting is tomorrow.
I have access to the gun and the ammo.
I am fully committed to this now.
So, yeah, I'm going to prison for life,
and many people have about one day left to live.
Do you have any evidence to believe?
that Mr. Crumbly or Mrs. Crumbly saw the journal.
No, I just, if I had evidence of that, they would, I imagine the charges would be different.
If you had evidence, they saw the journal, the charges would be different?
Yeah, murder, I would imagine.
Okay, so the journal was located in the backpack that belonged to the shooter, correct?
Yes, correct.
There were also a number of other papers in that backpack that you described.
Yes.
You don't have any evidence that Mrs. Crumbly ever saw any of those papers, correct?
Correct.
So it seems that the teen was really struggling and wasn't getting the support that he needed from his parents.
But the defense is trying to reframe.
They're saying, no, Crumblies were the ones who were truly in dark about what was going on until after the shooting.
That's when they found out.
By the way, one of my favorite things about being a host on law and crime is how passionate
our audiences.
You guys don't just sit back and watch.
You engage.
You leave comments.
You give us feedback.
You make your opinions known, which I can't tell you how much I appreciate.
But one of the most popular opinions is how much you love our police body cam videos.
And I'll tell you, I agree.
I think they're fantastic.
They're unpredictable.
They let you see firsthand what's going on in any given situation instead of just hearing
about it later in testimony or from police reports.
Well, I am excited to tell you that we here at law and crime, we've heard you loud and
clear, and we have launched a whole new YouTube channel dedicated only to police body cam videos.
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We're talking high-speed chases, dramatic DUIs, arrest that you just got to see to believe.
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Let us know what you think.
You might even hear a, I don't know, a familiar voice on some of the videos.
It's me. It's me. I'm not going to lie. I get to narrate some of them. Huge honor for me. Great
opportunity. But just click the link in the description. Catch all the action on long crime
body cam. I'm going to see you there. Now, Paul to the stand also was an interesting witness.
Brian Maloche. This was a man that Jennifer Crumbly was apparently having an affair with.
The prosecution walked him through Facebook messages between the two of them as they talked about
what happened and what Crumbley would do next. The main idea with the affair, though, is that
Jennifer Crumbly was too distracted with Maloche and her job and horses that she really
wasn't paying attention to the clear warning signs from her son.
In those messages, Crumbly blasted the school for not forcing her son to go home or searching
his backpack.
School officials testified that they didn't want him to go home if he was going to be
alone and that there was no reason at the time to search his backpack.
He said there was no reasonable suspicion.
Now, that's important because the defense is saying if the school wasn't worried about him,
if the school didn't feel threatened by him enough to force the parents to take him home,
how can you hold the Crumbly's responsible?
How can you say that they should have known?
It's a bit of the blame game.
Though I will tell you, the prosecution has argued through the testimony of school officials
that if the school had known the shooter had access to a gun,
like if they had known that his parents had bought him that firearm,
then they would have treated this much differently.
Because Jennifer and James Crumbly didn't make that known.
They didn't tell the school about.
the gun. So in other words, it's their fault that their son wasn't forced to leave school.
Now, Jennifer Crumbly counters that. She says, no, school, they didn't give us the full picture.
They didn't tell us everything that was going on. Ethan was writing things. You didn't tell us.
We didn't understand how much he was struggling. But we also heard testimony this week about the
Crumblies on the run before they were arrested. And I say on the run in quotations because
there was also testimony about cash withdrawals made by the Crumblies. They were apparently
camped out at an art studio in nearby Detroit,
a man who had business in the same building,
recognized the car as one that police were looking for.
They called 911.
So the Crumbly's were asleep on a mattress on the floor
when the task force members burst in.
But Jennifer Crumbly, or at least her defense is contending,
they were just trying to escape all the media attention surrounding them.
And that they had every intention to turn themselves in.
So they really weren't on the run.
By the way, my opinion, I don't really think that that piece is the most significant.
In this case, why do I say that?
I say that because if this were a murder case and we didn't know who did it and then you have a suspect fleeing, that's suspicious.
That shows consciousness of guilt.
Here, even if we accept that they were hiding, does that really affect the legal analysis of whether they were guilty of failing to prevent the shooting from happening?
Sure, it looks bad, but they could still be innocent and flee because they're scared.
I don't know.
That's my take at least.
Well, the prosecution officially rested its case on Thursday.
Now, you could argue that things don't look great for Jennifer Crumbly at this point, right?
I mean, on top of everything else, there were all these text messages I haven't even mentioned,
like from Jennifer to her son.
After he opened fire on the school, she wrote, Ethan, don't do it.
You could argue that shows she knew what he was capable of.
When he got caught looking up ammunition in the school, Jennifer texted him, L.O.L.
I'm not mad at you.
You have to learn not to get caught.
So to combat what the prosecution had presented so far, defense attorney Shannon Smith called her client to the stand as the first witness for the defense.
Remember, this is the defendant's decision.
to take the stand. Her decision. In my opinion, she had to do it. I don't say that,
like, there's a ton of risk associated with the defendant taking the stand. How will they come
off? Will they get tripped up in cross-examination? I think taking the stand is vital in self-defense
cases when you have to explain why you use lethal force. But here, I think it was also necessary.
It was necessary for her to explain why she wrote the things that she did, why she acted in a certain
way. Why did she do more? So let's break down her direct examination.
Hi.
You start by seeing your name.
It's Jennifer Crumbly.
And Mrs. Crumbley, you and I have been working together since November, I'm sorry, December of 2021, correct?
Correct.
And is it fair to say over these last 26 months, we've discussed whether or not you intended to testify a number of times?
We have.
Do you want to testify in your case?
Yes.
Do you understand that if you did not testify, this judge, this court, would give you.
the jury instructions that it cannot be held against you yes do you understand
that after I question you the prosecution is going to be able to cross-examine you
yes and you understand they're going to be able to cross-examine you about all
of the evidence that's been admitted in the case including all of your text
messages to your Facebook messages to your husband all of those messages with
mr. Maloche all the evidence in the case yes I do they get full
on cross-examination, you've gone over that. Is that correct? Correct. And do you have any questions
for myself or for Judge Matthews about testifying? No, I don't. Is it your, are you doing this
because anyone has threatened you or coerced you into testifying? No. Is this your choice? Yes.
Is it voluntary, free, freely made by you? Yes. Is there anything you think the court should know
about this decision?
No.
Do you have any questions for me?
I do not.
So Crumbly started out by talking about her life.
She worked in marketing for a real estate firm.
She and James had been together for 18 years.
They had this one's son who she felt she was close to.
This is all a way to reframe the narrative of a neglect of mother,
that this is all a way to humanize herself and her relationship with her son,
show that this wasn't a dysfunctional family but a normal, positive experience.
And she also explained her personality, like the time she seemed to be cold as to what was happening, or, you know, maybe she was talking so much about herself or focusing so much on herself.
She explained that she goes into this kind of analytical planning mode when something bad happens.
So here's a sample of her giving some background.
How often would you and James talk about or talk to Ethan?
Well, talk to him every day.
Talk about him, probably every day too.
Great. What kind of, did he then have scheduling things you had to work out?
Yeah, he had bowling practices throughout the week, bowling matches, and he worked part-time in a diner.
So we had to work out transportation and scheduling with that.
In terms of your relationship with your son, how did you think your relationship was?
I thought we were pretty close.
We would talk.
we would, I mean, we did a lot of things together.
I trusted him, and I felt like I had an open door
and he can come to me about anything.
I mean, I felt as a family where three of us were really close.
Okay, you're getting a lot of, no, it's okay.
You're getting a lot of redness here.
Is that normal?
Yes, because I'm talking in front of people,
and my nerves act up, so I get splotchy,
and I might break out in hives, and I apologize.
Okay, but you are okay.
Yeah, I'm fine.
So with regard to your son, did you ever go through his text messages, go through his bedroom?
What kind of a parent were you in terms of going through those things?
I did not go through his text messages.
I didn't have a reason to.
His bedroom I would go through when I clean it.
And I come across things, I look through it to see if there was something needed to keep or throw away.
But I never went through his text messages.
So she was there for him, checking on his grades, tracked his location, using an app.
She knew what was going on with him.
Then again, he opened fire on a school, so how well did she really know him?
Hey, so quick sidebar from sidebar for a second.
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Earlier in the week, the detective from the computer crimes unit testified about
text messages between Crumbly and her son, where it sounded like maybe the teen was having
hallucinations of some sort.
That's an important point.
Because if you knew your son had mental health issues and you ignored that and you bought
him a gun, that shows you create.
the danger. You could have prevented the shooting from happening. You should have seen this coming.
But Trumbly suggested she never believed her son had these severe mental health issues. And she
outright denies him ever telling her that he had these problems and wanted to see a doctor
or anything like that. She also explained that if anything, she always thought he was messing
around, that he was sarcastic. For instance, listen to this idea about him thinking the house was
haunted because she said that was just a long-running joke.
This is a text where the prosecution admitted to show that your son texted you,
okay, the house is now haunted.
What time was that text at?
It says 603 p.m.
I don't know if it says minus four.
I don't know what that means.
Okay.
And then the next text, so your shit just happens and now I'm scared.
Next one, I got some videos.
and a picture of the demon is throwing bowls.
I'm not joking if I'm just going to be an outsider for a while.
I mean, I'm sure I saw them, but they just didn't stick out to me until this case.
Why didn't they stick out to you?
Because it wasn't, it wasn't anything that was anything serious.
It was Ethan just messing around.
You've got to explain to the jury.
How did Ethan mess around?
So he's been convinced our house has been haunted since 2015.
because it was built in 19-20.
Around that time frame, him and his friend
would go down to the basement and play a Ouija board.
So they thought we had a house ghost.
So it was around that time when he would mess with us
that things were going on in the house.
Silver was flying across the room.
Doors were slamming.
He actually took a video of the door
and showed me when I got home.
And you can clearly see where he's standing back
with his phone looking at the door
that's open. You can see him walk up the door and you can kind of see him slam it of him trying
to say, see our house is haunted. So it was that kind of stuff that he did. What is happening again
is they are taking some of these bad facts and circumstances and providing a new context to them.
That's what the defense is doing. Now, attorney Shannon Smith also asked Crumbly about the purchase
of a gun or her son on Black Friday just days before he would use that gun to kill fellow students
at his high school. Previous witnesses have already confirmed that Jennifer Crumbly
was not present when that gun was purchased.
Yeah, I texted my husband and asked where you're at, and I believe he called me and told me
that him and Ethan were at the Acme Firearm store looking at guns.
Okay.
And then they came home from there.
Okay, did they purchase the gun that day?
They did.
Okay, the prosecution, prod and exhibits showing the receipts, all that.
You weren't with them when they bought the gun, correct?
No, I was not.
Okay.
you did post on Facebook a photo of the gun we saw the post correct correct and in the
post that's been admitted already you described it as your son's Christmas gift can you
explain who wanted the gun how what what what was what does it mean um they had rented a
nine millimeter at the shooting range before so they knew it was the type of gun or the size
going to guess what it is, that they wanted to get.
And my son and my husband did a lot of texting back and forth.
My son did a lot of research on it,
and they're comparing different ones that they wanted to buy.
That went on for a couple months.
My husband just kind of kept blowing it off.
Not right now, not right now.
And then I guess when I was out shopping,
they said, well, let's go try on Black Friday,
see if we can get one on sale, if there's any deals going on.
Okay, so they ultimately did get one.
Right.
Now, did you object?
Did you say, I don't want that gun in the house, anything like that?
No, I was more angry that they cut into our Christmas tree time.
Usually cut my Christmas tree down where I have to get back from shopping, but I had to wait for them.
So I was, I was irritated at that.
Crumbly testified the gun was kept locked away and that the firearm was her husband James' responsibility,
a common theme of pointing the finger at him, not her.
Did he have free access to that gun?
No, it was for him to use.
at the shooting range only.
Was he allowed to take it out?
Not without my husband around.
Did he know where it was kept?
My husband hit it usually in our bedroom in different spots.
Okay.
What was the intention of hiding it?
That's just what you're supposed to do.
Okay.
And when it was hidden, was it locked in any way?
It had the cable lock on it.
Okay.
And you again testified about the key being in a beer sign.
Correct. Would the Beersstein be right by the cable lock?
No.
Okay, so where would the Beersstein be?
It would probably be in one of the ones in the kitchen.
And when Smith questioned her client about the seemingly damning evidence of premeditation that the school officials found,
Crumbly said she simply didn't know about any of that.
Okay, Exhibit 166. This is from September 8, 2021.
It starts off with an email from Ms. McConnell.
to Sean Hopkins.
It says, can you please touch base with Ethan Crumbly?
In his autobiography poem, he said he feels terrible
and that his family is a mistake.
Unusual response is for sure.
He writes back, thanks for the heads up.
I'm in senior meetings throughout the day.
I'll try to catch up with him.
Were you aware this was ever a discussion or an issue?
No.
Were you aware that Mr. Hopkins ever talked to
or tried to talk to your son?
No.
Did anyone ever call you to make you aware of any of this?
No.
If you heard this, how would you react, or what would your reaction be?
I'd be definitely concerned why he feels like his family's mistake and he feels terrible.
So that would be a concern to me.
Okay.
So this is something you were unaware of.
Correct.
And in fact, when did you find out these emails existed?
When we started getting discovered.
Okay, so in this case?
Correct.
Crumbly says that in the days leading up to the shooting,
her son seemed to maybe be a little distant,
maybe a little sad,
but nothing that raised any kind of red flags for her.
Do these texts look familiar to you?
They do.
Okay, who are these between?
These are between me and his friend's mom.
Okay.
And you say, you start off with Ethan.
I'm sorry, my son is in bowling tonight.
I just want to let you know,
not sure if he needs a partner.
Why are you texting that?
I don't know why he wasn't bowling tonight, top of my head,
but they have partners on certain nights of the week,
and so him and his friend were always partners,
so I was letting her know that he wasn't going to be there.
Okay, and this is on one date, April 29.
Did you talk to her on other dates,
or is this like the only time you talked to her?
We've talked back and forth quite a bit.
Okay.
Now, on this date, you say he's been acting kind of depressed.
I don't know what's going on.
I'm not sure if there's something bothering me in school, but he doesn't really feel good.
I can't get anything out of them.
Friends Mom mentions he stayed home from school today, too.
The only time they're happy is when they're together.
Talking about grades.
You mentioned, this is all new to me.
I'm not used to my son being moody.
He's usually pretty happy, and we'll talk about anything.
I do know he's been stressed about school in his grades.
We called the school, but she wasn't in social, do it tomorrow.
I think his grades have a lot to do with it.
I just got to a point where he's got so far behind and we were out of town.
He's having difficulties making it up.
Where were you guys out of town?
In Florida, my mother-in-law had passed away,
so we were gone for a couple weeks in the middle of April,
taking care of funeral arrangements and everything.
And at this time, when you describe your son as being moody or depressed,
did you think it was anything that warranted getting medical attention?
No, he was just being quiet.
He's a quiet kid. He was just being quieter than normal.
And I'd ask him if he was okay, you'd say fine. But I just tell he was a little
sad. And I thought maybe him and his, I didn't see his friend in a couple of weeks.
So I know if maybe they got into a fight and they weren't talking.
And then all of this led up to the day of the shooting, November 30th, 2021.
Remember, both parents went to the school when a counselor raised concerns about a drawing of a gun.
Mr. Hopkins testified that he sent you something.
What did he send you?
He sent me a copy of a math worksheet that had the scribbled out drawings on it.
Okay, and I want to ask you, the night before that scribbles out drawing thing came to you,
did you have any interactions with your son?
Yes, we did.
What were those about?
I saw in Power School that he had an E in geometry.
So we got an argument again about his grades.
We took his phone away and told him that he couldn't go to the shooting range
until his grades were brought back up.
Okay, so you guys had this argument the day before.
We saw lots of messages where you thought everything was fine that Tuesday morning.
Is that how you felt?
Yeah.
Okay.
So when you got that, when you got that map,
paper texted you do you recall seeing anything to Ethan on the phone and speaker yeah I asked
him why he did why why he did that okay what were you thinking at that point um I was actually
I was actually kind of angry because I thought he was he did that and like the science of us
yelling him about missing assignments and here he is drawing pictures on an empty assignment page
in geometry so you felt like it was specific we him sending you a message
about the night before yeah how did that meeting go um it was pretty it was pretty nonchalant it was
pretty brief um he started to tell he basically filled me in and what my son and him were talking
about for the last hour and a half um he said that my son told him that he was feeling sad over the
death of our dog that we had um my mother-in-law the loss of his friend um so we talked we talked a little
bit about that. We confirmed it. We agreed it was hard on him. He told us that he didn't feel
my son was a risk and actually gave him the option. If he wanted to stay at school or go home,
my son wanted to stay at school. So we all discussed, we all discussed that. Did you feel like
you were taking the position of I am leaving him at school whether he can be here or not?
No, absolutely not.
Okay.
Were you surprised or were you not surprised?
Did you have any feelings about whether or not he could stay at school?
I didn't really, I thought the advice that they were giving us was a good advice.
We talked with him being sad, and then he said being around peers usually helps.
We all graded that.
My son gets very stressed out when he does virtual school, so we agree that it might stress him out more
to do his school remotely the rest of the day.
But there is never a time where I would refuse to take him home.
I could easily, if he wanted to go, take him with me.
I had no issues with that.
So again, the school didn't make a big deal of it.
Better for him to be around peers.
Deal with this later.
The school didn't think it necessary to take him out
and they didn't force him to leave should Jennifer Crumbly be held responsible.
They didn't search his book bag after all when that was the book bag that had
the gun, a fair question, right?
Reversing the narrative that she didn't take him home purely because she had work
obligations that it was more of a joint decision, which, by the way, there was testimony
to suggest that her boss would have let her focus on her son more and not work.
Okay, so that helps the prosecution.
But anyway, if the school knew that the shooter had had a gun at home, that would have
changed things.
That's according to them.
That's according to the school officials.
So that's a point that's going to be difficult for the defense to contend with, that
They'd ever told the school about the gun.
Well, as we know, within just a few hours of his parents leaving this 15-year-old,
he started shooting, killing four people, injuring seven others.
And Smith asked Crumbly about how she had heard about the shooting
and the slow realization that her son was the shooter.
You sent him to text to some that says, you can talk to us.
Why did you send him that?
After I left the meeting, I knew that he was sad about things,
and I just wanted to let him know that he can talk to us about anything.
I just wanted to make sure I opened that door.
I just let him know that we're there for him, and we love him.
Okay, and he said he loved you.
Do you recall that?
I do.
Okay.
Was there anything unusual about that?
Yeah, he's at that age where it was harder to get I love you's back out of him.
For me to open my text and just see him randomly saying,
I love you, was abnormal for him.
Right.
Did you think anything at that point?
No, not right at that point.
I think I said text back.
I love you too.
I don't remember.
I believe I did.
Yeah.
Okay.
And later in the Thrive, you say, don't do it.
So when you hear there's an open shooter at the school, I want to know in your mind, what do you believe this happening?
Well, my husband, I called me.
when I was still at work.
And he said there's an active shooter at Oxford High School
and can't get a hold of Ethan.
And that's when I opened my phone and I saw that I love you text.
And then I texted him, are you OK?
In the process of it, I was getting my stuff
and running out the door.
Like my boss know that I had to go to my son's school.
It was on 75 when I was trying to get to the exit
that my husband called me and he asked,
where I hid the bullets and I told him and then he said the gun was missing so instantly
it just I'm like oh my gosh he's he's got the gun I didn't actually think he was at the school
shooting it I thought maybe he walked home and got the gun and was in the field by the school
shoot I just I didn't imagine my son actually going into a school and shooting and then when we got
more updates I was like oh my gosh he's he's a school shooter he's going to kill himself because in my mind
that's what school shitters have done.
They've killed himself after.
So I yelled in my talk to text.
Ethan don't do it because I thought he was going to kill himself.
And at the end of her testimony on Thursday, Crumbly was emotional.
In some of the messages the prosecution admitted,
you say that you failed as a parent.
Do you feel, are you a failure as a parent?
I don't think I'm a failure as a parent, but at that time,
I guess I didn't see, I felt bad that Ethan was sad at those things, and I guess I just, I don't know, I just felt like I failed somewhere.
I don't, I only know how to describe it.
Just that point in time, I just kind of felt like somewhere I failed.
Do you believe there was anything, do you believe that you knew or had reason to know, your son was a danger to anyone else?
No. As a parent, you spend your whole life trying to protect your child from other dangers. You never would think you have to protect your child from harming somebody else. That's what blew my mind. That was the hardest thing I had to stomach is that my child harmed and killed other people.
Do you believe there were things you were thinking at the time I should do this, but I'm not doing it?
Do you look back and think that?
No, I don't.
I mean, of course, I look back after this all happened, and I've asked myself if I would have done anything differently, and I wouldn't have.
If you could change what happened, would you?
Oh, absolutely.
I wish he would have killed us instead.
over the last 26 months has this fun stressful for you very stressful yes have you had a range of emotions
I've had a lot of emotions are you trying to are you do you believe you are the victim here
Um, I don't want to say that I'm a victim because I did not want to disrespect those families that truly are the victims on this, but we did lose a lot.
So I think the best way to think about this is that, yes, she had an answer for everything, right?
Now, is that convenient? Is that suspicious, perhaps? But remember, it was her job to explain away all of that.
And is that not all consistent with her entire story and narrative? If the name of the game is,
reasonable doubt. Does this give jurors pause to say,
hmm, maybe I'm looking at this a bit differently now.
Remember, this case is unprecedented, not the most straightforward case to prove by the
prosecution. But I will tell you this. This was only the direct examination.
We have not seen the cross-examination at the time of this reporting. And I imagine
that she will face some pretty tough questioning by the state. And we will see what happens then.
That is all we have for you here on Sidebar, everybody.
Thank you so much for joining us.
Please subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, wherever you get your podcasts.
I'm Jesse Weber.
I'll speak to you next time.
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