Law&Crime Sidebar - 9 New Details in Luigi Mangione Murder Case

Episode Date: January 8, 2025

As Luigi Mangione, 26, awaits trial in both federal and state court, we’re learning new information about how he may have prepared for the murder of a healthcare executive. Prosecutors believe Mangione shot UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson because of his disdain for the American healthcare system. Law&Crime’s Jesse Weber has the latest.PLEASE SUPPORT THE SHOW:Download the FREE Straight Arrow News app at https://san.com/Sidebar and support journalists like us committed to delivering the truth!HOST:Jesse Weber: https://twitter.com/jessecordweberLAW&CRIME SIDEBAR PRODUCTION:YouTube Management - Bobby SzokeVideo Editing - Michael Deininger and Christina FalconeScript Writing & Producing - Savannah Williamson & Juliana BattagliaGuest Booking - Alyssa Fisher & Diane KayeSocial Media Management - Vanessa BeinSTAY UP-TO-DATE WITH THE LAW&CRIME NETWORK:Watch Law&Crime Network on YouTubeTV: https://bit.ly/3td2e3yWhere To Watch Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3akxLK5Sign Up For Law&Crime's Daily Newsletter: https://bit.ly/LawandCrimeNewsletterRead Fascinating Articles From Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3td2IqoLAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandcrime/Twitter: https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetworkFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawandcrimeTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lawandcrimenetworkTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lawandcrimeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can binge all episodes of this Law and Crimes series ad-free right now. Join Wondry Plus in the Wondery app Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Agent Nate Russo returns in Oracle 3, Murder at the Grandview, the latest installment of the gripping Audible Original series. When a reunion at an abandoned island hotel turns deadly, Russo must untangle accident from murder. But beware, something sinister lurks in the grand. views shadows. Joshua Jackson delivers a bone-chilling performance in this supernatural thriller that

will keep you on the edge of your seat. Don't let your fears take hold of you as you dive into this addictive series. Love thrillers with a paranormal twist? The entire Oracle trilogy is available on Audible. Listen now on Audible. Your Honor, he's not a symbol. He's somebody who is afforded the right to a fair trial. He's innocent until proven guilty. Luigi Mangione, the man accused of gunning down the United Health Care CEO in the middle of Manhattan won't be back in court when we ain't expected. His federal court date's been pushed back so that his formidable defense team and one of the country's most successful prosecution offices can prepare to do battle. This comes as we are learning new details about Mangione's background and what he allegedly did to prepare

for this apparent assassination. Welcome to Sidebar, presented by law and crime. I'm Jesse Weber. Luigi Mangione, I haven't talked about him in a minute, so we're going to give you some updates here. But he spent the holidays in the Metropolitan Detention Center out in Brooklyn, New York. The same jail that is housing disgraced music mogul, Sean Diddy Combs, who is also under federal indictment. And by the way, you might have seen this. There was some reporting that there was some kind of beef between these two high-profile inmates that maybe Diddy was jealous of the attention that Mangione was getting. So what did we do? law and crime. We reached out to Combs' team, and they say that is completely made up.

It was, again, kind of an outrageous thing, a little bit of crazy stuff. We'll continue to monitor if anything changes there. I mean, it is something that two of the biggest cases that we've been covering and two of the most high-profile defendants we have been covering are now both in the same detention facility, but we'll see where this goes. But anyway, as Mangione remains locked up on both federal and state charges for allegedly targeting and shooting to death, United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson on the streets of Midtown Manhattan, New York last month. His high-powered legal team is working to build a defense. And by the way, that is another connection to Sean Diddy Combs because Mark Agnifalo, whose Diddy's attorney, is married to

Karen Friedman Agnifalo. This is Mangione's attorney. And Mark actually is going to be helping out with this case too. So he has a lot going on now in 2025. But now we have learned that as all the lawyers involved are getting their ducks in row, Mangione's next court date, which may in fact be a preliminary hearing, has been pushed back a full month from January 18th to February 17th. So if it is a preliminary hearing, this would be interesting because a preliminary hearing is where evidence against the defendant is presented and the court decides if there is sufficient probable cause to move forward towards a trial. Both the prosecution and the defense, they agreed on this continuance and Judge Catherine Parker.

signed off on it, writing, given the nature of the prosecution, the government, with the consent of defense counsel, Karen Friedman Agnifalo Esquire, and Mark Agnifalo Esquire, has requested a continuance of 30 days to permit both parties adequate preparation for trial proceedings and the trial itself, and that the defendant through counsel has consented that such a continuance may be granted for that purpose. It goes on to say, and it is further found that the granting of such a continuance best serves the ends of justice and outweighs the best interest of the public and the defendant in a speedy trial. So you see those competing interest here. And by the way, I will talk about that defense in a minute because this

may be raised at a preliminary hearing or maybe some pretrial motions. We'll talk about it. But right now, this 26-year-old is charged federally through a criminal complaint. So this is not a formal indictment. A complaint is just a precursor to either an indictment or a preliminary hearing, which again might be scheduled for February. But just days after that, Mangione is scheduled to be in state court for an appearance, because that is where he has already been indicted. Mangione is charged in New York state court with 11 counts, including murder in the first degree, criminal possession of a weapon, and having a forged instrument. And that is in connection with Mangione allegedly using a ghost gun, a weapon made from at least some 3D parts,

to shoot Brian Thompson as he walked to the Hilton Hotel in Manhattan. So that's the allegation. And officials say he was lying in wait, ready for Thompson as he walked past, heading for an Investors Conference for the Health Care Giant. By the way, when it comes to bringing you these stories, I mean, especially this shooting story, we always just try to call balls and strikes. We want to bring you the facts, no bias, nothing like that. That is why we are thrilled to partner with a company like Straight Arrow News. So this is an app and website that is focused on objective, unbiased reporting. As somebody who's always doing research for Sidebar, I get it. I know how easy it is to get lost in biased journalism. Well, Strait Arrow News, they help cut through that with tools

like the media landscape, shows where outlets fall on the political spectrum, the media mistool, highlighting stories that mainstream media might be skipping. So you can check it out for yourself for free, by the way, at sAN.com slash sidebar or click the link in the description. Listen, supporting them means supporting journalists like us who are committed to delivering you the truth. Now, after the shooting, the suspect apparently took off on foot, then hopped on a bicycle, law enforcement was able to track him through Central Park, spotted him on surveillance in a taxi cab, headed to a bus. By the way, they believe this is all Mangione, and after an intense manhunt, someone at a

McDonald's in nearby Altoona, Pennsylvania, spotted who they thought was the suspect from the surveillance photos from New York that had been circulating, called police. Because you remember at that point, the suspect, the shooter's face, had been plastered everywhere. So Mangione was taken into custody without any resistance, and officers found multiple pieces of potentially incriminating evidence on him, including. a ghost gun, a silencer, and then there were the writings. So Mangione allegedly wrote about his preparations for this apparent attack, his grievances with the U.S. healthcare industry.

The reports that Mangione had had back surgery in the months leading up to the shooting and that he'd been living with pain. The interesting part about that is, if we're thinking about a potential motive, is he was never a client of United Healthcare. The prosecutors believe that Mangione targeted Thompson because of his position as ahead of this major, insurance group that has power over millions of Americans' well-being. So it also raises another question. I've talked with experts about this was Thompson, if Mangione wasn't caught, and he is the actual killer, where there are other people that he was going to potentially target in the health care industry? We just do not know. But I will tell you, the most serious

of Mangione's charges is murder as a crime of terrorism. And I'm going to talk about that a little bit more. But there have been a lot of critiques surrounding how much of a circus this case has already become. Because when Mangione was extradited from Pennsylvania back to New York, he traveled by not only SUV, but also by helicopter, where he was met on a pier by a swarm of heavily armed officers. The mayor of New York City, Eric Adams, was even escorting Mangione at one point. And while it gave the appearance of wanting to make sure Mangione did in harmony, one or maybe I should say, that no one were to step in and actually help him, because there was this fanfare after his arrest, people really came to support him.

I think it was also to set a stage that this can't be tolerated, that this is an incredibly serious crime, and we have to warn that any other copycats out there or potential copycats, there will be severe consequences. And just going back to that idea of making sure nobody stepped in, you see, Mangione's name and likeness have soared in popularity over the last few weeks. It's been disturbing to see. Some have been seeing him as a sort of folk hero, man who may have killed but did it to send a powerful message about the struggles of millions. Now, others have pointed out that murder is murder and the support for radical actions, they can have unintended consequences. And the idea is murder can never be the answer for making some sort of change. Now, his attorney, Catherine Friedman Agnithelow talked about the drama surrounding her client in state court.

This was just before Christmas. I'm very concerned about my client's right to a fair trial in this case. He's being prejudiced by some statements that are being made by government officials. Like every other defendant, he's entitled to a presumption of innocence. But unfortunately, the way this has been handled so far, his rights are being violated. And as you know, Your Honor, there's a wealth of case law guaranteeing his right to a fair trial. But none of the safeguards have been put in place yet here. In fact, it's just the opposite of what's been happening.

He's a young man, and he is being treated like a human ping pong ball between two warring jurisdictions here. These federal and state prosecutors are coordinating with one another, but at the expense of him, they have conflicting theories in their indictments, and they are literally treating him like he is, like some sort of political fodder, like some sort of spectacle. He was on display for everyone to see in the biggest staged perp walk

I've ever seen in my career. It was absolutely unnecessary. He's been cooperative with law enforcement. He had been in custody for over a week. He waived extradition. He was cooperative at all accounts. There was no reason for the NYPD and everybody to have these big assault rifles

that, frankly, I had no idea it was in their arsenal. And to have all of these, the press there, the media there, perfectly choreographed. And what was the New York City mayor doing at this press conference, Your Honor? That just made it utterly political. And as Your Honor knows, under Laura v. Charles, the Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit has held it to be clearly established that these staged perp walks to the media unrelated to a legitimate law enforcement objective is unconstitutional. And I submit there was zero law enforcement objective to do that sort of perp walk. There's absolutely no need for that whatsoever.

And frankly, Your Honor, the mayor should know more than anyone of the presumption of innocence that he, too, is afforded when he, dealing with his own issues. And frankly, I submit that he was just trying to detract from those issues by making a spectacle of Mr. Mangione. And there are consequences to this. He has a right to a fair trial. And I just want to put on the record statements that the mayor made publicly about my client nothing saying alleged for example and he said i wanted to send a strong message with the police commissioner that we're leading from the front i'm not going to just allow him to come into our city i wanted to look him in the eye and state you carried out this terrorist act in my city the city of new york that i love

and he wanted to show symbolism your honor he's not a symbol he's somebody who is afforded uh the right to a fair trial. He's innocent until proven guilty. And the mayor was talking to jurors, future potential jurors that elected him. Those are the people that elected him that he is talking to and calling this man a terrorist. So, Your Honor, I just want to make a record of this and put everyone on notice that this has to stop. And my client is entitled to a fair trial and the presumption of innocence. Now in state court with the state charges, Mangione has entered a not guilty plea, but again, he hasn't entered a plea in federal court yet. That is going to come later once he's officially indicted. But the maximum sentence for the state charges is life in

prison without parole. The potential punishment on the federal charges still up in the air, but the death penalty is not off the table. Now, I have to talk to you about the defense. I mentioned this, because from a legal point of view, I think there's an argument that the top state and federal murder charges could be problematic. For the murder charges committed in furtherance of terrorism, so these are the state charges, my understanding is it has to be done to intimidate or coerce the civilian population. So maybe there's an argument, hey, given how many people have supported Mangione and criticize the healthcare industry in the wake of Thompson's death, there's something there, right?

But did he anticipate this was going to happen? Is that a fair connection to make? Not entirely sure. If that doesn't work, then the killing had to be one to influence the policies or affect the conduct of a unit of government. But what does that mean here? Was it to get, let's say, Congress to make changes regarding the health care industry? Does that feel a little bit like a stretch? You know, from my point of view, I think that's a bit unclear on that.

So I think from a state charge, the second-degree murder charge, which is just in, intentional murder, that seems to be the most straightforward way by which you can convict or potentially convict Mr. Mangione. And that carries, my understanding, 25 years to life in prison. Now, first degree murder, of course, when it comes to the terrorism charge, that is an automatic life in prison. So you can see why they want that. From the federal perspective, this is also, I think, problematic because the murder charge there, it is a murder, the way they've prosecuted, is a murder committed while stalking Brian Thompson. But as attorney Serena Townsend explained to us on a previous sidebar. She was very articulate about

this. She said stalking is about placing Thompson in reasonable fear of death or serious bodily injury. But doesn't that mean that Thompson had to know he was being stalked? Is this a murder committed while stalking? Again, I think that there could be a defense here, maybe not even to bring up at a trial, but maybe to get that charged or these charges dismissed before trial. We'll see. Now, moving forward and talking about the defense, we have also learned of another person joining Mangione's team, prison consultant Craig Rothfeld. Now, he is a former financier who went to prison in 2015 for stealing $11 million from 15 investors, and after a short jailstead, he became a consultant to many white-collar defendants. And in fact, he recently worked with

disgrace movie producer Harvey Weinstein, who was convicted of his own sex crimes charges out in New York and Los Angeles. The New York verdict actually was overturned. He's going to be awaiting trial, a new trial. He's sitting behind bars on that. But according to Rothfeld's website for his company, Inside Outside Limited, their advisors can get a detainee prepared for what life might be like inside jail. Quote, there is prison etiquette, prison politics, violence, television protocol, phone usage, different security levels, abusive staff behavior, unwanted sexual advances, and many other issues which you may be exposed to. Our prison advisors make these terrifying experiences less threatening

by breaking them down for you and providing a game plan for when these situations arise. And, you know, Mangione really might need that advice because we told you before about the Metropolitan Detention Center, the MDC. It is plagued with issues from violence and drugs to really hard living conditions, periods of no heat, so very different from what the average American is used to. And I will also say,

In a shocking new twist to this, we are now learning from a newly released documentary more details about Mangione's strange behavior or alleged strange behavior in the months leading up to this crime. So the TMZ documentary titled Luigi Mangione, the mind of a killer, has revealed unsettling information about Mangione's actions during a trip in Asia in 2024. You see, Mangioni had apparently visited a gun range in Thailand. This is a visit that is now, of course, raising eyebrows amongst friends and investigators. So according to German tourists, Paul and Max, who crossed paths with Mangione during his travels,

he apparently chose to spend a day at a shooting range rather than take part in a plan beach outing. The two men who say they became close with Mangione as they traveled across Asia, recounted the moment in an interview for the documentary, which first aired last week. Mangione's journey to Thailand, though, seems to be part of a larger and still somewhat mysterious solo trip. to Asia that began earlier last year. And at the same time, he was reportedly not in contact with his family. And he booked a one-way flight to Asia. Again, kind of strange things leading up to what he's been accused of now. And regarding the gun range, one of the travelers, Paul, told TMZ that this supposed interest seemed very out of character for Mangione, saying Luigi

was always talking about big ideas, books, and tech. But that day at the range, he was focused almost obsessed. He kept asking questions about guns, about how they worked, about everything. And at one point, the two travelers even claimed that Mangione tried to convince them to join him, but they declined saying they didn't really feel right about it. They were uneasy. Now, Paul and Max also revealed that Mangione was particularly engrossed in a book by Indian author Josh Dolani, titled, Hit Reverse New Ideas from Old Books. The two travelers explained to TMZ that he was often seen reading this book, discussing the themes, but it kind of went deeper than that, they say.

Paul and Max told TMZ that Mangione wanted, for some reason, to buy 400 copies of this book. He also wanted to take a trip to Mumbai, India, to meet the author in person. According to TMZ, Mangione was only able to buy one book, not 400. And Max recalled that during the interview, saying Luigi was always talking about the deeper meanings of things. But this was something different. He didn't just want to read the book. He wanted to change it to get involved in something bigger. It was almost like he was trying to find some kind of purpose, but in a really strange way.

By the way, a little thing I have to just mention here. This is in any case, but whenever you hear witnesses provide an accounting of what happened in the past, and this is something that's explored both by prosecutors and defense, and I'm not saying this will even play a role in an upcoming trial, you always have to think about are what they recollecting about their experiences with the defendant, is it colored by the accusations now? In other words, if you were to ask them about Mangione way before this happened to Brian Thompson, would they have said the same thing?

Sometimes people look at events differently after something happens than before, just something to keep in mind. So what exactly is this book about, right? Well, the author, Josh Dolani, told World is One News, back in November, that the book incorporates tons of new insights from older books. He shared three from the book during his interview, one being that charisma is about being comfortable in your own skin. The second, being a quote from Napoleon on courage, saying courage can't be counterfeited.

It's a virtue which escapes hypocrisy. And the third insight came from a quote from renowned German scholar Nietzsche on miscommunications between men and women, saying the same passions in man and women, nonetheless, different in tempo, hence man and woman do not cease misunderstanding one another. So these latest revelations from Paul and Max in this TMZ documentary, they suggest that Mangione's alleged radical tendencies may have been brewing for quite some time, right? But the extent of this internal turmoil of what could be, it really wouldn't be fully realized until he allegedly shot and killed United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson.

By the way, how much of this will actually come into evidence? That's unclear because there's an argument that all of this is irrelevant to the charges. Motive is not an element to these crimes that the prosecution has to prove. Sure, we would like to know the why if he did this, right? Was he radicalized? When was he radicalized? How was he radicalized? But for purposes of criminal trials in these charges, it may not come in.

By the way, who is Luigi Mangione? So we did a whole episode on this, but quick primer. This is a guy who comes from one of the richest families in Baltimore. He was Valvictorian at the elite Gilman School, attended Stanford University. In fact, the Stanford Daily spoke to a former student as well as a former colleague who actually worked with Mangione at the Stanford Pre-Collegiate Studies Program back in 2019. The university spokesperson confirmed to the Stanford Daily that Mangioni was the head counselor for the program for a few months. The outlet reported he was living in the Kappa Alpha Fraternity House at the time. And according to his own LinkedIn, Mangione designed lesson plans and taught artificial intelligence to gifted high school students, led a seven-member residential staff.

The former student told the Stanford Daily that he spoke in depth with Mangione while they were on a hike during the program. He took the time to do that. He really talked to me as I was starting to think about what I wanted to study in college. The way I felt was this is a guy who just inherently cares. about others. And the former co-worker said of Mangione, he was very friendly, very outgoing. The other staff members liked him. The high school kids liked him. He went on to say, of all the people I've known in my life, he would not have been in my top 10,000 guesses. So for now, Mangione's state and federal cases will run parallel to each other. And hopefully,

we get a lot more answers because we certainly have many questions. I have a really exciting announcement for you guys, the video version of Sidebar is now available on Spotify. That's right. We are so thankful for your guys, supportive Sidebar, us getting this show on Spotify video is truly due to how loyal this audience is. So thank you so much for that. And yes, you can now watch and listen on the go from Diddy to the United Healthcare Murder Updates to Crazy Court Moments.

It is all on Spotify. So right now you can scan the QR code on screen or click the link in the description to follow Sidebar on Spotify. That's all we have for you right now here on Sidebar. everybody. Thank you so much for joining us. And as always, please subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jesse Weber. I'll speak to you next time. Thank you.