Law&Crime Sidebar - Andrew Tate Back in U.S. Despite Sex Crime Charges in Romania

Episode Date: March 3, 2025

Controversial influencer Andrew Tate and his brother Tristan touched down on American soil last week after being released from house arrest in Romania. The brothers face a slew of charges following allegations of sex crimes, human trafficking, and assault. Law&Crime’s Jesse Weber discusses the case criminal defense attorney Rebecca Brodey.PLEASE SUPPORT THE SHOW:Get 40% off your first order with Trade at https://drinktrade.com/sidebarHOST:Jesse Weber: https://twitter.com/jessecordweberLAW&CRIME SIDEBAR PRODUCTION:YouTube Management - Bobby SzokeVideo Editing - Michael Deininger, Christina O'Shea & Christina FalconeScript Writing & Producing - Savannah Williamson & Juliana BattagliaGuest Booking - Alyssa Fisher & Diane KayeSocial Media Management - Vanessa BeinSTAY UP-TO-DATE WITH THE LAW&CRIME NETWORK:Watch Law&Crime Network on YouTubeTV: https://bit.ly/3td2e3yWhere To Watch Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3akxLK5Sign Up For Law&Crime's Daily Newsletter: https://bit.ly/LawandCrimeNewsletterRead Fascinating Articles From Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3td2IqoLAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandcrime/Twitter: https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetworkFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawandcrimeTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lawandcrimenetworkTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lawandcrimeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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will keep you on the edge of your seat. Don't let your fears take hold of you as you dive into this addictive series. Love thrillers with a paranormal twist? The entire Oracle trilogy is available on Audible. Listen now on Audible. In a dramatic turn of events, Andrew and Tristan Tate touched down in the United States just days ago. Fresh off their release from house arrest in Romania as they face explosive allegations of sex crimes, human trafficking, assault. Their arrival in Florida has ignited a firestorm of controversy, and we're here to unravel all of the chaos. Welcome to Sidebar, presented by Law and Crime.

I'm Jesse Weber. In a significant development, 38-year-old Andrew Tate, the controversial former kickboxing champion and social media influencer alongside his brother Tristan, who's 36, they have officially arrived in the United States, and this is despite some serious allegations of international sex crimes. And this marks a new chapter in their ongoing legal saga, which has garnered global attention. According to the BBC on Thursday morning, the brothers were granted permission to leave Romania after Romanian authorities modified the terms of their house arrest, lifting travel restrictions that had kept them in the country for nearly three years.

And their departure on a private jet followed considerable pressure, reportedly from the White House to lift the travel ban on the brothers who hold dual U.S. U.K. citizenship. In December 2023, we remember that the brothers had been ordered not to leave Romania. And then in July of 2024, Romanian court ruled they could leave the country, but they had to stay within the EU, the European Union. But that decision was apparently overturned by a court of appeals in Romania and the request to return to the United States was abruptly granted. However, the case against them has not been dropped, and they must return to Romania, possibly as soon as the end of this month, as the end of March, to appear in court. That's according to the BBC. Now, upon

arriving in Florida, I mentioned controversy. Andrew Tate spoke to journalists stating that their departure was allowed, quote, because we have no active indictment in court. The court decided to let us go and return. We live in a democratic society where he's innocent until proven guilty, and I think my brother and I are largely misunderstood. The Tate's arrival in Florida, though, met with both support and backlash. Their lawyer, Joseph McBride, stressed that the brothers were simply exercising their right to freedom, pointed out that they had never been convicted of any crime. He posted on X on Thursday morning writing Andrew and Tristan Tate have returned home to America.

Yesterday, Romania rightly decided it didn't have the evidence needed to hold them any longer. all eyes on our Florida defamation case. God is with us. The truth cannot be stopped. Now, the Tate's arrival didn't go unnoticed by local authorities either. So there's one thing for the public to take note. There's another thing for local authorities, because Florida, Governor Ron DeSantis made it clear that the brothers weren't welcome in the state, asserting that Florida wouldn't tolerate human trafficking or violence against women. Now, interestingly, when he was asked about his feelings on the matter at a press conference, Governor DeSantis said he didn't even know the brothers were being extradited, but still reaffirmed they would not be welcome there.

We have no involvement in that. I read about it through the media. Clearly, the federal government has jurisdiction, whether they want to rebuff his entry into the United States. And I have confidence that whether it's Pam Bondi or Christy Nome, that they will be looking at that. I do know our attorney general, James Uthmeyer, is looking at what state hooks and jurisdiction we may have to be able. to deal with this, but the reality is, is, no, Florida is not a place where, where you're welcome with that, with those, that type of conduct in the air. And I don't know how it came to this. We were not involved. We were not notified. I found out through the media that this was something that was happening. In response to all of this, the New York Times reports that the Tate's lawyer said the brothers would be throwing their financial support behind DeSantis's opposition in the next election. But then we have Florida Attorney General James Utmire. He announced he is conducting

quote, a preliminary inquiry to determine whether any of the brothers alleged criminal actions fall under Florida's jurisdiction. Posting on X, I directed my office to work with our state law enforcement partners to conduct a preliminary inquiry into these individuals. Florida has zero tolerance for human trafficking and violence against women. If any of these alleged crimes trigger Florida jurisdiction, we will hold them accountable. So in addition to the legal matters in Romania, the brothers are also dealing with allegations of tax evasion and sexual violence in the UK. A Romanian appeals court ruled in March of last year that the brothers could be extradited to the UK, but only after their legal proceedings in Romania were concluded.

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organized criminal activity related to the exploitation of women. And the brothers have consistently and adamantly denied these accusations. According to the BBC, the Tates were placed under house arrest for several months. And then new allegations surfaced in August of last year, including sex with a minor and trafficking underage individuals. The Tates have denied these claims as well. But meanwhile, the brothers also face legal challenges in the UK, where four British women have filed a civil lawsuit against Andrew Tate in the UK high court. They accuse him of rape. They accuse him of coercive control. Allegations that the brothers continue to deny as well. And upon hearing the news of the travel ban that was lifted and the brothers move to the

United States or travel to the United States, one plaintiff reportedly expressed their shock, saying, we are in disbelief and feel re-traumatized by the news that the Romanian authorities have succumbed to pressure from the Trump administration, allowing Andrew Tate to travel freely across Europe and the U.S. Matthew Jury, who we've actually interviewed here on Sidebar before, Matthew Jury, he's the lawyer representing these four women sharply criticized the Tate's return to the United States, calling it, quote, equal parts disgusting and dismaying. He went on to say that any suggestion that the Tates will now face justice in Romania is fanciful.

that UK authorities must take immediate action to ensure their extradition to the UK to face charges for the alleged human trafficking and rape offenses they are alleged to have committed in that jurisdiction. In a different post, he also said Florida Attorney General James Utmire should consider prosecuting Andrew Tate under 18 U.S.C. 2423 for engaging in illicit sexual conduct in foreign places. There is evidence Tate had sex with a 15-year-old girl while in Romania. On behalf of our clients, British women have filed criminal complaints against Tate for

rape, we'd be happy to support such a prosecution and point you to the evidence. As far as the UK goes, though, the Tate's also, as I mentioned, faced allegations of tax evasion. Last year, Devin and Cornwall police took the brothers to court, accusing them of failing to pay taxes on 21 million pounds, so that's about $26.5 million in revenue from their online businesses between 2014 and 2022. This is according to the BBC. Lawyers for the plaintiffs quoted from a video posted online by Andrew Tate. in which he said, when I lived in England, I refused to pay tax. In December, a British court ruled that more than $3 million could be seized from the Tate's assets. Tate called it, quote, outright theft, said it was, quote, a coordinated attack on anyone who dares to challenge the system.

But here's the thing. In addition, U.K. authorities issued arrest warrants for the brothers in connection with separate sexual assault allegations dating back to 2012 to 2015. And according to the independent, they are due to be extradited to the U.K. Mania case is done. So now I want to get into some background on the Tates, if you're not familiar with them. And what is essentially, what was their rise to infamy? So initially, they were known for their fighting careers, their kickboxing careers. The Tate's gained fame in the UK after Andrew Tate won multiple world championships. His online presence grew rapidly after his brief appearance on Big Brother in the UK in 2016, though he was removed from the show after a video surface showing him striking a woman with a belt. And Tate later claimed that the video

was, quote, a total lie that had been edited to make him look bad. This is according to NPR. The Tate Brothers, they previously ran an online education platform. It was called Hustlers University. And the design of it was to, quote, empower men with an entrepreneurial mindset to become the best versions of themselves. But after it was shut down in 2022, he relaunched it under a new name, the real world. And part of their company's mission statement reads, quote, when you surround yourself with people who share your values, goals, and interests, you can benefit from their experiences, insights, and feedback. You can also learn from their successes and challenges and celebrate your achievements together. A healthy, like-minded community can help you grow as a person,

overcome obstacles, and pursue your passions. It can also make you feel happier, more confident, and more connected, knowing how other people around you are doing. By 2017, the Tates had relocated to Romania, where they apparently set up a fortified compound, continued to building their online empire, including an adult webcam business, and the brothers have claimed that they moved to Romania to seemingly avoid legal issues in the UK and other Western countries, allegedly preferring Romania's legal system. On a now deleted YouTube clip, Andrew Tate actually criticized the UK for what he perceives as its decline, claiming it had, quote, gone downhill.

He explained that one of the reasons he moved to Central Europe was to avoid the risk of facing rape charges, stating that it was, quote, probably 40% of his motivation. And he went on to say, quote, I'm not. a rapist, but I like the idea of being able to do what I want. I like being free. According to the Independent, that video was removed from YouTube with a spokesperson saying, we terminated channels associated with Andrew Tate for multiple violations of our community guidelines in terms of service, including our hate speech policy. If a channel is terminated, the uploader is unable to use, own, or create any other YouTube channels. And that apparently

wasn't the only platform he had problems with because he was also permanently suspended from Twitter, now X, after making a statement on October 18, 2017, claiming that women, and should, quote, bear some responsibility for being sexually assaulted. This is while discussing the Harvey Weinstein scandal. In response, Tate said, I don't agree with being banned. People get banned from Twitter all the time and make new profiles. I'm not inciting violence, promoting terrorism, harassing anyone. This is censorship of free speech.

I've never had specific tweets banned or been cautioned. But by August of 2022, according to the independent, Tate had been banned from Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube. In a final video that he uploaded, Tate argued that many of the criticism, that are directed at him. They stem from clips that have been taken out of context saying, I do have some responsibility to bear. I still blame myself because my rise was so fast and they became so famous so quickly. If enough people were cutting up videos like they did with mine and had a negative agenda, they can make Mickey Mouse look evil. You can make anyone look bad. Now, his Twitter account was later reactivated when Elon Musk purchased ownership of the platform on October 28th,

2022. And in fact, in December of 2022, following a viral exchange with climate activist Greta Thunberg on Twitter, where Tate seemingly boasted about his Bogotty and Ferraris while asking for her email address to send the complete list of my car collection and the respective enormous emissions. That is when Andrew Tate was arrested in Romania. That was big news that went all across the world. And he faced this investigation of human trafficking, sexual assault, forming an organized crime group. Romanian authorities alleged that Tate and his brother exploited several women coercing them into producing what is essentially pornography. Again, he has consistently denied the allegations, even tweeting, anyone who believes I'm a human trafficker is genuinely a moron.

By March of 2023, after a long legal battle to extend their time in custody, a Romanian court ruled the brothers could be on house arrest. They were locked up for so many months. In June of 2023, in connection with the Romania case, the brothers were formally charged with human trafficking and forming a criminal gang to exploit women. The following month, the Tates filed a $5 million lawsuit against a Florida woman, accusing her of making false human trafficking allegations that led to their arrest. And the Tates alleged that she had tried to defraud them. And when her efforts failed, she conspired to falsely report them to authorities. In their lawsuit, attorneys Thomas Mnoytis and Joseph D. McBride argue that the Tates are the real

victims here. They describe the Florida woman who is not being named as a, quote, professional con artist who initiated a sexual relationship with Tristan Tate in order to move to Romania and later attempted to defraud the brothers. And they claim when her efforts to exploit them failed, the lawsuit claimed she conspired with others to make false reports to Romanian and U.S. Embassy authorities, leading ultimately to the Tate's arrests. Quote, at no point did the Tate brothers engage in human trafficking, the lawsuit asserts, describing the woman as a, quote, serial liar, manipulator and schemer who targets vulnerable, often wealthy men for financial, emotional and sexual gain. Tate's legal team insists that the Florida woman, along with other women living

at their estate, were free to come and go as they please, citing security footage as evidenced. They further claim that the woman and Tristan Tate met through a dating app, continuing a sexual relationship when she visited Miami for a business event in December of 2021. She later expressed interest in moving to Romania, pursuing internet modeling. That is a business venture in which the Tates were involved. And the Tate's claim that this Florida woman tried to defraud them of $200,000 by falsely claiming she needed the money for something important. And again, when that attempt failed, the lawsuit alleges that the woman, along with a male Virginia-based friend, contacted the U.S. Embassy to falsely

claim that they were being trafficked. And this led to Romanian authorities raiding the home where the woman was staying starting the investigation into the Tate's. But by August of 2023, Andrew Tate successfully appealed to be released from house arrest, though he remained confined to Romania. By the way, speaking to reporters, he said, the truth will be known very soon. And he posted on Twitter after 10 months, three in jail, seven at home, after 15 million euro of asset seizures after an indictment based on nothing. The file was passed to a judge who was ruled it weak and circumstantial. I have been released from house arrest but must remain within Romania. And speaking outside his home in Bucharest about his release, Tate told reporters

in January when I was thrown into a jail cell, the media reported and told the world that I was a terrible person that I hurt people and that I made money from a criminal enterprise. Now, seven or eight months later, I haven't seen a single victim in the news. Instead, I've seen lots of women defending me and many people supporting me. Not a single person is stepped forward to say that I've hurt them, not one. It's exhausting to perpetuate lies and it's difficult to keep them going when there's no real evidence. We've been innocent from the beginning and I have complete faith in the Romanian judicial system for finally making the right decision in releasing us. I'm sure we will be fully exonerated in the end. And those who have been spreading lies and

reporting things without substantial evidence will have to reflect on why they tried to destroy people's lives for views. I've done nothing wrong. God knows I've done nothing wrong in my heart. I know I've done nothing wrong. I think the people at home with a functioning brain understand that we've done nothing wrong. Then you go to March 12th, 2024. And that is when Andrew and Tristan Tate were detained in Romania on allegations of sexual aggression linked to incidents that occurred between 2012 and 2015 in the UK. They were in custody for 24 hours. They were informed of a European arrest warrant issued by Westminster Magistrate's court. And the Bucharest Court of Appeal was scheduled to decide whether to execute those warrants. And as we said earlier, their extradition to the UK will

apparently take place once the Romanian legal proceedings are concluded. Then we go to August 22nd, 2024. Andrew Tate was placed under house arrest once again by a Romanian judge in connection with the second Romania case related to the Tate's brothers alleged criminal organization. He was later released from that January, was placed under judicial control, and that allowed him to travel within Romania while adhering to the required legal conditions, according to the BBC. But just before the extradition, on February 10th, the Florida woman that the Tates had sued for defamation filed a countersuit, saying the brothers could work.

to come to Romania under false pretenses before attempting to recruit her into sex work and then bullying and harassing her. Joseph McBride, again, the lawyer for the Tate's told the independent in an email, this civil suit represents a poorly constructed and desperate attempt to relitigate the failed Romanian criminal case in a U.S. court. And the woman's lawyer, Danny Pinter, who's also a senior vice president at the National Center on Sexual Exploitation, responded saying, the Tate brother sued Jane Doe, claiming her testimony to Romanian authorities was false. Now when she tells her side of the story, they threaten sanctions. I think that speaks for itself as to where the truth lies. Well, just before the brothers returned to the United States, Jane Doe asked the court

to put a hold on the Tate's lawsuit until the Romanian court cases were resolved, but the judge actually denied her request. And CBS News reports that just before the Tate brothers landed in Florida, they actually filed a temporary restraining order against this Jane, though, citing uncovered text messages they claim show, quote, credible threats of violence, intimidation, or harm, and reports at the end of February indicated that U.S. officials specifically from the Trump administration may have pressured the Romanian government to allow the brothers to travel freely. And as dual citizens of the U.S.

and the U.K., the Tates leveraged their citizenship status to push for changes to their house arrest conditions, which were ultimately lifted. And that's where we're at. So I actually had the opportunity to sit down with attorney Rebecca Brody to discuss some of this. Let's hear what you had to say. Rebecca Brody, thank you so much for coming on. Appreciate you taking the time. Coming here on Sidebar. Thank you so much for having me.

So does this concern you? What's going on with Tate being back in the United States? Concern me, yes. Surprise me. No. The Tate brothers, they have faced numerous allegations, including human trafficking, sexual violence. They have dual U.S. British citizenship.

What are the legal issues that we should be thinking about? in terms of whether it's him or somebody else who would be facing these charges coming back to the united states at this point in time right well they don't as of now have any real criminal exposure here in the united states they've been charged in romania and i know they're under investigation in the uk and i just read that the uk is seeking their extradition so the exposure would be really criminally related to the charges abroad i know they've been sued civilly here in Florida. But as far as what criminal issues they could face, it's most likely tethered to whether or not the U.K. would try to extradite them and whether or not they would,

of course, I'm sure, try to fight that extradition, which could get drawn out for years. How does that work in terms of, I mean, my number one question, let's move to Romania in a second, but if they, in terms of the U.K., if they were to be extradited or fight extradition here in the United States, how does it work? Could they just stay here as they fight extradition back to the U.K.? How does it work? Yes, so they can stay here as I fight extradition. And because they're very high profile,

they would most likely be able to do that while out on release. For the average person, you would potentially be detained and you could be detained throughout the entirety of that fighting of the extradition. But for someone who seems to be pretty cozy with the Trump administration, I think that he would be able to probably fight that on release.

What are some legal arguments that would be made to fight it? The number one legal argument, when you're challenging extradition is usually dual criminality. Something has to be a crime in both the country that's seeking extradition and in the country where you are. And especially if you're a citizen, which he is a US citizen, he'll have more protection here and would be able to challenge that in various different ways.

But he would be able to argue that, for instance, whatever they're charging him with wouldn't be a crime here. It's not criminal here. Or he could say that the penalties there would be so extreme that there's some basis to challenge them here. Our penalties tend to be more extreme. than the U.K.'s penalties, but, you know, he can make various arguments. Although we don't have official confirmation, it appears the Romanian authorities lifted

the travel restrictions that were on the Tates, allowing them to return to the United States. And Romanian organized crime prosecution units called DECOT said in its statement that prosecutors had approved a, quote, request to modify the obligation, preventing the defendants from leaving Romania. That's according to the Associated Press, but it made no mention of who had made that request. What's the legal criteria for lifting such restrictions and do we see this happen in any case high profile cases well i don't know what the legal criteria would be under romanian law what you have here it would appears to have happened here is that there have been diplomatic efforts to obtain this lift and so

you do see diplomacy being used to for instance enact prisoner exchanges and you do see diplomacy being used to obtain relief for various individuals in other countries you see it with high profile people with journalists with political prisoners so that's something that's done and it's it's really through diplomacy not through just the general statutes now again decott said the pair remained quote under judicial supervision that they would have to quote appear before the judicial authorities at every summons this is according to a french news agency a fp they apparently do have a hearing in March. So apparently, if that's true, they have to go back to Romania in March. This is according to CBS. What happens if they don't go back? So again, this would be under

Romanian law, but they would be in content of court. They would not be complying with the order to go back. And they could then seek their extradition. Now, would that actually happen? Would they face any real consequence? I don't know. And I don't think so. But, um, they would be violating the law under Romanian law. Let's talk about would they have a legal justification to be in the United States. What do I mean by that? So according to NPR, their lawyer had responded that, look, they aren't only Americans, not only have dual citizenship, but they are litigants in a defamation suit in Palm Beach County,

Florida, that they sued an American woman for defamation for her alleged cooperation with Romanian authority. She apparently countersued. Is that enough to legally justify coming back? to the United States. Hey, listen, we got a legal case here. Got to be here. Even if Romania or UK authorities want us back, we got to be here by the law. No, because that's a civil case. So you're not going to be able to get out of a criminal case where you're facing criminal charges because you have civil litigation somewhere else. That's not a justification. Okay. All right,

good to know. Let me ask you this. There has been talk about whether or not the Florida Attorney General could prosecute, should prosecute Andrew Tate under. 18 U.S.C. 2423 for engaging in illicit sexual conduct in foreign places. I don't know how familiar you are with that statute or its application, but again, U.S. citizen alleged offense occurred in Romania. Can you tell us how this might apply? So there have to be a jurisdictional hook in order for them to be charged here in the United States. And if the allegation would be that he was human trafficking to get women to perform on his webcam service, and that those webcam sex services were then offered in the United States, then there would be

jurisdictional reach for the United States government and prosecutors here to charge him. Interesting. And by the way, Governor Ronda Santis has made it clear that Andrew and Tristan Tate, they are basically not welcome in Florida due to everything that's surrounding them these allegations. How much weight do public statements like this hold in legal proceedings, especially when it comes to very serious charges and allegations of human trafficking in rape. Legally, they shouldn't matter. But it depends. You might have a judge that would be very impacted by those statements. But legally, they don't really matter. Does his social media presence, any statements he makes while he's here, interviews he does, does that affect the analysis in any

which way, whether it's, you know, an extradition analysis, whether it's a potentially charging him hear anything about his comments on social media or in interviews that he should be thinking about. Yes, there are there should be statements that he's thinking about. You know, he's made certain admissions in social media. There is a video of him, what appears to be physically abusing a woman in a video. And so if he were to come here and say, well, no, I didn't engage in any of this. Everything's consensual. I just think the diplomatic mechanisms that they've used here to bring him here and whatever they might do, it's not that extraordinary. What's extraordinary about the situation is who he is, and that he's king of the manosphere, that he was operating a porn ring.

That's not the type of person that you would normally see the president go to bow for and try to bring back into the country. And that's why you're seeing kind of pushback by Governor DeSantis, too. I mean, it is clear. He doesn't want them there. He doesn't want them in Florida. Well, I don't think that it will help Governor DeSantis gain popularity by supporting someone who's so reprehensible. Let me ask you this. He, the Tate's at my understanding, they're facing charges of money laundering, influencing statements. Is it challenging for defense teams to handle charges that involve financial crimes, especially if you're dealing with multiple jurisdictions? Not any more than any other crime. I mean, any crime can basically be linked to a financial

crime. If you engage in criminal conduct and there's money attached, then you've engaged in money laundering. So the financial crime doesn't make it any more. different than any other crime what do you think about their cases in all I mean general have you had an opportunity to look at the ones in Romania in the UK how strong do you think they are what do you think I don't know all the evidence against them and I've seen a little bit and what I have seen suggest to me that he was operating a porn ring I don't know what they did to get those women on camera I have seen Andrew Tate do interviews where he says I manipulated women to fall in

love with me and then I would get them to work for me. I've seen videos where he appears to be physically violent with a woman. I've heard him say other very misogynistic things, but things that say that he's trying to control women and force them to work for him. So if the evidence shows that that's what he was doing, that he was trafficking people in to work for him and then profiting off of them, then yeah, there's a case against him. It's difficult. We've been covering this story for a while now trying to get sense of what the charges are in Romania. How does it work in Romania? What the evidence is like. It's a very different system. But before I let you go, I talk about the idea of the president, right? You talked about the sway that the president might have here.

So what are all of the legal mechanisms that a president of the United States can use to, again, hypothetically speaking, if someone is facing serious charges abroad and there is a legal right without the administration getting involved for that person to be extradited back to that country, what can a president do to ensure someone does not extradited out of the country? And assuming, hypothetically speaking, if that were to ever come up. So if you are going to extradite someone to another country, it's not like the, you know, UK law enforcement comes down and swoops them up. United States has to cooperate with that effort.

And we have to have our court decide that the person should be extradited. And then we would then put the person on a plane. And so the president right now has exerting a law. lot of power over various U.S. attorneys and could exert influence into what they charge, what they don't charge. The president also, of course, could pardon people, but that really only protects you from prosecution here in the United States. Right on a federal level. Listen, it's a very interesting situation, interesting development. We'll keep our eyes on it. Rebecca Brody, thanks so much. Thank you. Thank you. And that's all we have for you right now here on

Sidebar, everybody. Thank you so much for joining us. And as always, please subscribe on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jesse Weber. I'll speak to you next time.