Law&Crime Sidebar - ‘Atrocious Child Abuse’: YouTube Mom Allegedly Duct Taped, Starved Kids Until One Escaped

Episode Date: September 3, 2023

A 41-year-old mom and famous YouTuber was arrested on Wednesday for disturbing allegations of child abuse. Ruby Franke, known for her “8 Passengers” YouTube channel, allegedly tied up two of her children with duct tape and starved them until one escaped and ran to a neighbor’s house to beg for food and water. The Law&Crime Network’s Jesse Weber breaks down the disturbing case with legendary homicide detective Fil Waters. LAW&CRIME SIDEBAR PRODUCTION:YouTube Management - Bobby SzokePodcasting - Sam GoldbergWriting & Video Editing - Michael DeiningerGuest Booking - Alyssa Fisher & Diane KayeSocial Media Management - Vanessa Bein & Kiera BronsonSUBSCRIBE TO OUR OTHER PODCASTS:Court JunkieThey Walk Among AmericaDevil In The DormThe Disturbing TruthSpeaking FreelyLAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandcrime/Twitter: https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetworkFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawandcrimeTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lawandcrimenetworkTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lawandcrimeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can binge all episodes of this Law and Crimes series ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. I won't trust myself and you should not trust me either because I don't have any problem lying to you. I don't have any problem dropping responsibility, which is also deception. A popular parenting YouTuber and mom of six is arrested for child abuse alongside her business. partner. Renowned former homicide detective, Phil Waters, comes on to analyze this disturbing case. Welcome to Sidebar, presented by Law and Crime. I'm Jesse Weber. I got to talk to you right now about this story that is just absolutely shocking to hear. Have you ever heard of Ruby Frank? You

might have, because she and her husband launched this YouTube channel called Eight Passengers back in 2015. And it was all about the couple and their six children, very popular. I think it had over two million subscribers. It focused on parenting and homeschooling. It was interesting because Frank and her husband are members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Seems all well and good, right? Like wholesome values? Well, it turns out that Frank and her business partner Jody Hildebrandt, who founded a life counseling organization known as Kinexians, previously known as moms of truth. The two of them have been arrested out in Utah. And for what of all things? Child abuse. That's right. Police received a call at almost 11 o'clock at night on August 30th,

someone asking for help. And when police arrived on the location, they found a 12-year-old girl malnourished, emaciated with open wounds and duct tape around the extremities. Frank and Hildebrandt, they were arrested on two counts of aggravated child abuse because it seems that police were led to another location where they found a second child, a 10-year-old girl, believed to be the sister of the 12-year-old. And she also was in similar conditions. The children were taken to a hospital. NBC News reporting that four minors were then taken in by the division of child and family

services. And for anyone that has been following the work of Frank and her husband, they have received criticism for their style of parenting. People had accused them and suspected them of abuse. exploitation in the past based on what they saw in their content. In fact, it's been reported that some of those videos have now been deleted. And to give you an example, Child Protective Services was called back in June of 2020 to check in on the family.

This was prompted by a change.org petition. That's what the reporting indicates. And it came about after there was a video of one of the couple's children recounting how he was forced to sleep on a beanbag for months as a form of punishment by his parents. The reporting indicates that nothing came from this visit by Child Protective Services. There may not have been enough evidence to go forward. But going back to Hildebrand for a moment, so she's accused of promoting very harsh forms of punishment through Kinexions, this counseling services, such as her and Frank discussing

how if a child refuses to follow, quote, principles of truth, they can be cut out of a family. And here's another aspect of the story. So Shari Frank, the oldest of the Frank children, seems to have posted on Instagram, quote, me and my family are so glad justice is being served. We've been trying to tell the police and CPS for years about this and so glad they finally decided to step up. She further wrote, the kids are safe, but there's a long road ahead. Please keep them in your prayers and also respect their privacy. In fact, Ruby Frank's sister also had something to say, posted a video as well.

the only thing that we ultimately care about is that our nieces and nephews are safe and they are and that is the only thing that matters to any of us it is going to feel weird for me to move forward and i think i mean do i just move forward pretty incredible right there and frank and hildebrandt they were transported to and booked into the washington county jail they're both currently being held without bond to talk a little bit more about this let me bring in a fan favorite here on sidebar we haven't seen him in a while phil waters waters is a former legendary homicide detective who's worked over 400 cases he is an expert interrogator and just an overall great guy to talk to phil good to see you

thanks so much for taking the time oh thank you jessie it's good to be back with you it's been a while it has this is a horrifying story have you ever seen anything like this oh yeah this is not there's nothing new and different about this. It's just a, it's kind of a new wave on an old beach, right? And there's a million stories in the big city, and here's just another one about some atrocious child abuse. But I guess there was breadcrumbs. If people were looking at the videos and seeing that the parents were punishing the children

too harshly or engaging these kind of wild teaching and parenting methods, something didn't smell right. are you surprised that you know you heard the daughter say this that it almost seemed like it took too long well these things don't happen in a vacuum and they they appear over time and i'm sure when this when this particular incident started it didn't start out this way there was not this is one of these things that proliferates over time as the abuse starts to accelerate so it's You know, it starts out with the little things, and then eventually it starts growing into these weird manifestations of, you know, chaining him to a bed or something like that. So not terribly unusual under the circumstances of a kind of a classic child abuse situation within a family that, look, you know, this ostracization of the family members.

we hear a lot of these stories regarding people that are Mormons where there's a break with the children in the philosophy of that particular church and they are ostracized. I mean, I think we've heard stories like from the Osmans, you know, that kind of a situation. So, you know, it's just it's a cultural thing. But in terms of... Well, I do want to be careful. I'm not going to group all, you know, people that believe in a certain faith. Not at all.

I just, it seems to me, if you hear about what the children, how they were found, this condition of being essentially starved and taped up and tied up, it seems consistent with the narrative that's been online about these people. Well, yeah. So, again, I mean, you've got to start at the beginning, right? And so this doesn't happen overnight. Yeah. This is something that happened over time.

and there are signs that people will see, but it's almost like the people that are close to them that see these things. They're not believing what they're seeing. Right. You know, it's kind of, am I really seeing something here that indicates there's a bigger picture here? I want to ask you about this. So, investigators, they obtained a search warrant for the home. And during that search, the police said that they recovered evidence, quote, consistent with the markings found on the juvenile. What does that mean?

Well, depending on the type of markings, I would say that they found the instrument with which those markings were applied. You know, whatever it was that they were disciplining them with, striking them with, they were consistent with the instrument that they found in the house. And I want to ask you about this. So long crime is reporting that police said that two days prior to her arrest, Frank had posted a video to YouTube that was filmed in Hildebrand's basement while Hildebrandt was home. So it means essentially, right, that Hildebrand, maybe Frank, they were aware of the conditions under which these children were living. They can't, it's going to be hard for them to say, we didn't know what was going on. Oh, no. I mean, there's no way to deny.

I think the, what I am in the article that I read, I didn't see where the husband or the father was charged. I didn't see that either, right. Yeah, these cases, I find it. I find it a little odd, and maybe they're coming later, but in cases like this, in fact, I'm working a case right now for a client, for a defense attorney, and it involves the death of a child, and there's some indication of abuse there, but this may have been an accident. And the mother involved in it has not yet been charged, but they've been considering charges of child abuse by omission.

So I'm a little curious in this case that we have the same set of circumstances where he had to be aware of what was going on and why did he not stop what was happening and therefore there may be some charges coming later charging him with child abuse by omission. Do you think investigators are trying to interview these two suspects right now, these two women? Oh, I would think they have, or at least offer them the opportunity to interview. You always want to interview some, always. And I would imagine that's happened. And it would be interesting to see the interviews and see what comes out of those interviews. Do you think they're also sweeping through, combing through all of the old videos that they posted on these two different

channels, would that be helpful evidence in trying to determine what happened here? Well, I think so. I mean, you want to look at any type of evidence, potential evidence, something that may be probative. So I would think the, you know, you never know it's on these videos. You never know what's in the background. I mean, the, the, whatever was used to create these marks to punish these kids, you may find it hanging behind them on a wall somewhere.

So, you know, it's, it's, those are always interesting. If a picture's worth a thousand words, you know, a video is worth a million. So, yeah, you're going to be looking at anything that may be prerative in terms of evidence. I know this is sensitive, but what do you think is happening in terms of interviewing the children? Do you think investigators are trying to speak to the children and is now the time to do it after all of this has happened after they just went to the hospital? What do you think is going on behind the scenes in terms of getting information from, these young children and these alleged victims. Well, they're going to be interviewed.

And, you know, in Houston, we have a child assessment center that that's where they would go. And there's going to be trained personnel that will interview those children. So that's going to happen. And I would imagine that the circumstances would be the same in Utah. So those children will be, I mean, they are the complainants. They're the victims. They're the ones that their voices are going to be heard now. and they will interview those kids and evaluate what they're being told by the children

and see if they're consistent with what they're finding in the physical and forensic evidence. So sure, yeah, absolutely. And it's always unique when these kinds of cases, when you have children who are the victims, because it's a situation where you are in the care and the custody of the parent. And it becomes very hard for the parents who are accused or the guardians who are accused. of abusing the children to defend yourself because anything that happens to these kids is essentially your responsibility. And so if they're not being fed, that's your

responsibility. If they have these markings on them, it's very hard to say that you didn't do or you weren't a part of it. Now, again, this is our criminal justice system. There is a case that's going to be going forward. We'll see how it ultimately progressed. But just from an optics point of view, it doesn't look great. And, you know, I'm looking at this and trying to understand how it happened, do you believe that potentially, if they get more information from the children themselves, even the ones who were recovered and taken to the Department of Children's Services, that maybe more charges could come forward against these two women about prior instances of abuse? Oh, certainly. This could open that the potential here is, it's just a whole can of

worms gets opened up here and we find out there are there are more instances of abuse with other children i don't know what the scope of if there were if there she was just a an advisor a counselor she's got this website over the saw uh about how to raise parent how to parent children so i don't know what the scope of that is if there were if there were parents that let her take control of their kids in some sort of counseling sessions and something of that nature. And we know how these things go. If you get somebody that is charismatic and can express themselves well and what their intentions are and convince other parents. I'm not saying that it happened here, but I have seen it where other parents are convinced that what this advisor is telling them is.

what needs to happen so they are they're not necessarily complicit in what's happening in an intentional way but they are allowing it to happen by omission because they're convinced that this person is giving them correct counsel so that'll be interesting to see if we have other children that are not her family yeah that the same types of things have been happening with well let's see where it goes we're going to continue to follow this case it is a disturbing one and Phil Waters. Thanks so much for coming on and breaking down a little bit about what we know so far. Appreciate it, sir.

And great seeing you. All right. Thank you, Jesse. Aloha. And that's all we have for you here on Sidebar, everybody. Thank you so much for joining us. Please subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jesse Weber.

I'll speak to you next time. You can binge all episodes of this long crime series ad-free right now on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.