Law&Crime Sidebar - 'Attack That Evidence': Bryan Kohberger's Ex-Lawyer Reacts to Idaho Student Murders Case

Episode Date: January 13, 2023

Bryan Kohberger appeared in court Thursday and requested a preliminary hearing to be scheduled for late June to allow the defense time to build their case. "You can attack that evidence as a defense attorney," the accused student murderer's former Pennsylvania public defender said reacting to the case so far. The Law&Crime Network's Angenette Levy discusses the case and more with Monroe County Chief Public Defender Jason LaBar.LAW&CRIME SIDEBAR PRODUCTION:YouTube Management - Bobby SzokePodcasting - Sam GoldbergVideo Editing - Logan HarrisGuest Booking - Alyssa FisherSocial Media Management - Kiera BronsonSUBSCRIBE TO OUR OTHER PODCASTS:Court JunkieObjectionsThey Walk Among AmericaCoptales and CocktailsThe Disturbing TruthSpeaking FreelyLAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandcrime/Twitter: https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetworkFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawandcrimeTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lawandcrimenetworkTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lawandcrimeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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will keep you on the edge of your seat. Don't let your fears take hold of you as you dive into this addictive series. Love thrillers with a paranormal twist? The entire Oracle trilogy is available on Audible. Listen now on Audible. Mr. Coburger is in custody. He is appearing here in court with his attorneys. Brian Coburger back in court and he says he wants a preliminary hearing, but it's not going to happen until the summer. His former attorney is here with me. I'm Ann Jeanette Levy, and welcome to Law and Crime Sidebar podcast. Brian Coburger, that 28-year-old PhD student from Washington State University, was in court on Thursday for a very brief hearing. We knew this was going to be all about scheduling and whether or not his attorneys were going

to ask for a preliminary hearing. That's a hearing where prosecutors are required to put on witnesses and evidence to show that there's probable cause that Koberger committed the murders of Kaley Gonzalez, Maddie Mogan, Zana Kurnodl, and Ethan Chapin. Well, it was a big shock because Ann Taylor, his public defender, said they want this preliminary hearing to be held at the very end of June. Take a listen. Are you waiving your right to a speedy preliminary hearing and agreeing that that hearing can be held outside the 14-day period? Yes. Joining us to discuss what happened in that Lataw County courtroom today is Jason Labar. He's the chief public defender for Monroe County, Pennsylvania, and actually represented Brian Coburger for a very short time during his extradition hearing in Pennsylvania. Jason, welcome to Sidebar. Thanks for coming on. Good afternoon. And thank you for having me. Your thoughts on what happened today. Anne Taylor, the attorney representing Brian Coburger, asking for this six-month delay in the

the preliminary hearing. I found it quite unusual. That would be something that would never happen here in Pennsylvania, given the time constraints of hearings. However, I'm sure Attorney Taylor had good reason to ask for the delay. Do you have any idea what her reasons could be? I can't think of what they would be, but obviously, there's still investigation going on. We know the White Hyundai Alantra was seized from the home there in Pennsylvania. So they're probably searching that. We're talking test results, terabytes of information, social media accounts, phone records, you name it, they are probably going to get it. And will they get that, do you think, before the prelim? It seems like in the five months before the preliminary hearing, some of this discovery will be accessible. I know attorney

Taylor said that it was being continued for the discovery purpose. Obviously, the DNA can probably be back if there's any matches with unidentified blood DNA at the scene. But I don't know. what it was actually continued for, but I have speculation. We bantered around the idea that perhaps it's to receive the search warrants, those search warrants in Pennsylvania as well as Washington, although you could file a motion to receive those. By operation of law, become available after 60 days. They become unsealed and are available. So that's a potential reason for the delay, as well as like you said, terabytes of information from the cell phones from not only Brian's phone, but the four victim's phones could potentially be available and going through by the time it rolls

around for the preliminary hearing. And wouldn't she be entitled, though, as his defense attorney, even if those items are under seal, the search warrants and the affidavits, wouldn't she be entitled to those even if they were still sealed? I actually don't know the answer to that because it is Pennsylvania search warrants as well as Washington search warrants. Certainly Idaho search torrents that were executed, she should be eligible to retain those before the preliminary hearing. I'm assuming that she'd also have those prior to the preliminary hearing from Pennsylvania and Washington, but I really don't know the answer to that, unfortunately. I want you to discuss with me the probable cause affidavit. You've read it like everyone else,

the 19 pages. It discusses DNA evidence, cell phone pings, some type of vans shoe print. We don't know if Brian Coburger owns a pair of vans sneakers. but they found a shoe print consistent with that there. The eyewitness identification. Your thoughts as a defense attorney representing many people accused of murder on what that probable cause affidavit alleged. I had an opportunity to obviously go through the affidavit of probable cause several times now.

I looked it over carefully. It's a strong circumstantial case, but the evidence when it's viewed individually, you can attack that evidence as a defense attorney. Now, again, we're just in the infancy of. the case. So much of this evidence is actually going to come after the preliminary hearing time, although we don't know now with this five-month delay what's going to be available. But if you take the DNA evidence that's recovered from the sheath, for instance, I believe that to potentially be touch DNA, transfer DNA, which would mean that it could remain on that sheath for an

indefinite period of time if undisturbed. That's one way of attacking that type of evidence. that doesn't put him at the scene of the crime the night up, just that he merely touched that sheath at some point in time. The ID by DM is obviously going to be contested at the time of the preliminary hearing. I don't believe hearsay is admissible in Idaho under the rules. So it would be likely that DM is going to testify at the preliminary hearing when it gets to that point.

So cross-examination of her is going to be key in the case to possibly get even more holes as far as the identification is concerned. So let's ask you, you think it's a strong circumstantial affidavit, but did you see anything else there? I mean, did you, you said you saw places where it could be attacked. And right now it's words on paper. That's all we have to go on.

And there's no direct evidence linking him other than that transferred DNA on the sheet. The idea, as I stated already, isn't complete 100%. oh, it's Brian Koberger. The white allantra can't be determined to be his white elantra. I mean, there's circumstantial evidence indicating that it could potentially be his white elantra, but they're certainly not direct evidence. They don't have direct evidence that he's driving the white elantra. They're using cell phone pings, which we all know as defense attorneys aren't GPS location

coordinates. If it was GPS location coordinates, you're talking down to a meter. as to where Brian Coburger was at the time of these crimes, whereas a cell phone tower ping is that you're within a radius of that tower up to 20 miles. And obviously, Mr. Coburger lived within 10 miles of the University of Idaho where these crimes were committed. So certainly he could ping at any moment in time near the actual crime. Jason, you were his attorney maybe for four or five days, something like that. Do you still, do you keep in contact with his public defender out there in Idaho? Are you just kind of done and observing this? I'm merely done and

observing and really viewing everything objectively because I was really working in the dark and blind when I represented Brian. The affidavit of probable cause wasn't even available to me. So I couldn't even discuss the affidavit, even if I wanted to with him because really I didn't want to because I didn't want to reveal anything about the case that would be specific to the facts and circumstances with him. He's a smart guy, obviously. PhD student, 28 years old. He seems very attuned to what's going on. Yes, he understands his rights. We would expect that he would. How involved was he in the aspects of what the extradition hearing was going to be? Obviously, we know that was a formality. But how interested was he in being a part of what was going on? Or was

he letting you take the reins? I know that he was involved somewhat. Is that right? And talking about that statement that you put out where he said he wanted to be exonerated? Yeah, I was able to talk to Brian over the course of the five days for approximately four hours total. He was engaged with the conversations. He was aware of what plans I had. And he was good with everything that I laid out for him, including the statement. The statement of him being exonerated implicitly meant that he was innocent of the crimes. He used the word exonerated. That's why we put that in the statement. He wanted me to reach out to family, stay in contact with family, which I did to keep them abreast of the situation. Really, he was just aware and willing

to cooperate with me. I didn't have too many issues speaking with him, if any at all. He was obviously, as you said, intelligent PhDs doing it. It's much easier to talk to him than many of my clients that I have. It was a nice change of pace for me. And your interactions with the parents, his family, what can you tell us about that? I mean, his family's distraught. They're shocked by the arrest. they are in constant contact with him still. I believe they're talking daily on the phone, really just making sure that everything's going okay with both sides because I know Marianne's mother was very upset and was having trouble coping with the news.

But really the family is just taking it day by day, keeping things private, hoping, you know, for really that Brian's doing okay. And I can imagine any parent would be distraught about this. Do you expect to have any contact with him whatsoever, just as somebody who worked with him? I don't expect to speak to Brian in the near future, certainly. Well, any final thoughts, Jason? No, I don't have anything else. I just appreciate your time.

I know I've been stressing since my representation of Brian that he's entitled to a fair trial. And really, that's why I'm trying to be a voice for him so people don't jump to conclusions and raise these biases so that he can actually have a fair trial. fair trial with the presumption of innocence, obviously being at the forefront here, really just getting that fair trial. Well, Jason Labar, Chief Public Defender from Monroe County, Pennsylvania. Thanks for coming on and offering your insight. We really appreciate it. Thank you for having me.

And that's it for this edition of Law and Crime Sidebar podcast. It is produced by Sam Goldberg and Michael Dininger. Bobby Zoki is our YouTube manager. Alyssa Fisher is our booking producer and Kiera Bronson handles our social media. You can download and listen to Sidebar on Apple, Spotify, Google, and wherever else you get your podcasts. And of course, you can always watch it on Law and Crimes YouTube channel. I'm Ann Janette Levy, and we will see you next time. You can binge all episodes of this Law and Crime series ad-free right now on Wondery Plus.

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