Law&Crime Sidebar - Delphi Double Murder Case: The Story So Far

Episode Date: November 1, 2022

Authorities said they arrested a suspect in connection with the 2017 murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German after almost six years of investigating the crime. The Law&Crime Network's Angenette Levy talks with podcast duo Aine Cain and Kevin Greenlee about the Delphi double murder case, which they've followed for years.GUESTS:Aine Cain: https://twitter.com/ainecainKevin Greenlee: https://twitter.com/kevingreenleeThe Murder Sheet Podcast: https://twitter.com/murdersheetLAW&CRIME SIDEBAR PRODUCTION:YouTube Management - Bobby SzokePodcasting - Sam GoldbergVideo Editing - Logan HarrisGuest Booking - Alyssa FisherSocial Media Management - Kiera BronsonSUBSCRIBE TO OUR OTHER PODCASTS:Court JunkieObjectionsThey Walk Among AmericaCoptales and CocktailsThe Disturbing TruthSpeaking FreelySee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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will keep you on the edge of your seat. Don't let your fears take hold of you as you dive into this addictive series. Love thrillers with a paranormal twist? The entire Oracle trilogy is available on Audible. Listen now on Audible. Today is not a day to celebrate, but the arrest of Richard M. Allen of Delphi on two counts of murder is sure a major step in leading to the conclusion of this long-term and complex investigation. Welcome back to Sidebar here on Law and Crime. I'm Ann Jeanette Levy. It's been five and a half years since two teenage girls,

Abigail Williams and Liberty German, were murdered in Delphi, Indiana. There were a lot of people who wondered whether these murders would ever be solved. And it really is a case that's captivated the attention of people across the country. Now a local man, his name is Richard Allen, is church. charged with the crimes and he has entered a not guilty plea. Indiana State Police led a task force that fielded more than 70,000 tips that were bringing in information about the case. So let's listen to what the superintendent of the Indiana State Police had to say about the case on Monday. Thanks to literally hundreds of media outlets that have been steadfast in reporting and keeping

the memories of Abby and Libby front and center. Many of you in the room have developed relationships with me personally, and, you know, I always have a personal perspective, and today's no different. But from a very personal perspective, you have provided, you all have provided, inspiration and support, even while oftentimes frustrated with us and me. You continue to encourage the efforts, and you two believe that one day we would all be here participating. and sharing this news. And joining me to discuss the arrests and the investigation are the host of the Murder Sheet podcast. They are Anya Kane and Kevin Greenlee.

Anya and Kevin, welcome to Sidebar. Thanks for coming on. Thanks for having us. Anya, I'll start with you. What got you guys to really start looking into this case? We were a married couple. We were living in Brooklyn for a while at the start of the podcast. Then we made the decision to move back to Indiana.

And actually, one of Kevin's relatives was very interested in the case, very passionate about it, and sort of suggested that we look into it, essentially, noting how important it is for the community here in Indiana. So we basically, after that, started looking into it and started kind of basically skimming the surface, trying to find interesting angles. And eventually, we ended up hitting, you know, some different aspects of the case that I think proved to be sort of new information that we were able to bring forward. that's sort of how we got started though. Just sort of hearing that it was of interest to people. And I mean, it's certainly of interest to us. I mean, two little girls going out for a walk and never coming back. And then having the killer possibly on audio and video and not having it solved is just sort of it's very outrageous. So I think that drew us to it. And I remember when some of that video was released. And I'm sure they were just hoping that somebody would, you know, call in with some type of information that was helpful. So Kevin, talk to me a little bit about how you and and Anya started investigating the case. Well, we were fortunate because we had earlier investigated another case in Indiana. An older case, actually deemed back in 1978, the Burger Chef murders. And in the course of our investigation, of that case, we'd become familiar with the law enforcement

community here. We'd develop some sources. So when we got interested in Delphi, we were able to go to some people who were able to appoint us in some right directions and give us some ideas on some things to potentially. look into and some people to talk to. And that was very helpful to us. And so where did you go from there? Basically, we started off more of with an analysis focus. One question we had is, are there other double homicides of underage children in parks that we can look at and maybe draw some conclusions or at least have an intelligent speculation about? And so we talked about things like that. We talked about

things like we released one episode critiquing the Indiana State Police for some of what we felt was confusing messaging around the two sketches. So we were kind of really more on the outside looking in and kind of coming closer. But I think as we were releasing reports, we tried to be very, you know, objective and professional and journalistic about it. And I think people sort of appreciated that. And I would say, then we started hearing things more behind the scenes. That's a certain point and went forward with that. And we ended up getting some pretty important documents through a bit of a stroke of luck. And that came after, so Wish TV here in Indianapolis, they broke the story linking a man

named Kagan Klein to an Anthony Schott's account that Indiana State Police had released, basically saying that this man is accused of being an online predator. And, you know, we believe in some way that is linked to Delphi, essentially based on what the police are saying. So we were able through just a clerical error, essentially, to get a hold of some police transcripts of interviews with Kagan Kline, and we redacted those and published them and discuss them on our show. And I think that brought some understanding to at that point what was a lead and perhaps the most important lead at that point that police were looking into, I would say.

And it's my understanding that you all happened upon some information. And maybe happened upon is not the proper terminology. But you discovered or came to learn about some information that was helpful to the investigation and generated some leads? Yeah, we were told by people pretty high up, basically, that our reporting had generated actionable leads and tips in the case. And we don't know what became of those or if they ended up being important or if they ended up just being something to maybe cross off the list. So we're certainly not taking credit for any sort of development. It was certainly heartening to know that perhaps our reporting proved to be somewhat helpful. One thing that we do, I think people sometimes think that, you know, since we've gotten a few scoops in the case, that we tend to run anything or just kind of run with what we have. But we often, you know, if there's a case to be made for information being harmful to the investigation, if released, or, you know, dangerous to people. I mean, there's certainly a number of scenarios you can imagine where it's perhaps better to hold back for the time being instead of just reporting it. And that's something we have always done and have always tried to do. And so that's

that's something I think that has made it a good. I think people trust us to kind of not just publish everything at once and possibly endanger different people or the case itself. Of course. And Kevin, can you tell us about that information that you all were able to report that was helpful possibly in generating some what you guys called actionable leads or tips? Well, we were able to get our hands on a copy of a police interrogation. that the police did with someone who ran the Anthony Schott's social media account. And that interrogation transcript contained a wealth information about the person who ran this account, about the methods he used.

It had examples of some of his chats with people. And so our understanding is that us putting that information out there and publicizing it helped other people to come forward, perhaps with, and I'm speculating, but perhaps with stories about their own interactions with Anthony shots. So let's talk about how you all learned that an arrest had been made. In the news business, sometimes you hear rumblings, things you might necessarily, you might not be able to report right away or get confirmation of. Did you have any inkling whatsoever that an arrest might be coming? Yeah, we definitely, we definitely did. And it was one of those things where we, I

I think we try to prioritize what is good for the case in the public's understanding of the case and not let's get a scoop out of this because if we get something from a very credible source, definitely somebody that we, you know, totally trust. But if we're not able to sort of officially confirm it and or get multiple people saying the same things, we're reluctant to run with it, you know, just in case there's a misunderstanding. And especially with a sense, something as sensitive as this man has been arrested, that could be. If it turns out, if we report that and it's wrong, that would be devastating to the families and the communities and we would be doing some unspeakable harm even if it was just a mistake. And so we heard it, I believe, like. On Wednesday. Yeah, Wednesday.

And it wasn't announced to the public until Friday. So it was kind of surreal for us to have a day and a half or so there where we knew that there had been an arrest in the case, but no one else did. We couldn't confirm it. but we were pretty sure there had been an arrest. And we were pretty sure that we knew that it was going to be somebody who we'd never heard of. I mean, not on our radar, not on anybody's radar that we know of at this point. We were kind of just in this place of trying to run it down and get information.

And then it did come out and we were happy that, okay, a press conference is scheduled. We can learn some more information then. And I was going to ask you about that if you had heard the name, Richard Allen. But Kevin, it sounds like you guys, this was like a big shocker, I guess. Yeah, the first time we heard the news was on Friday morning when we learned that that was the name of the person who had been arrested. He was completely off our radar. What do you know about the motive here? I mean, I think about two teenage girls leaving their house, as you said, going out and not coming back.

I know one person could accomplish this, but they've also said they're open to hearing about other information that other people could have been in. involved. So what are your thoughts on that part of this? Yeah, it's a great question. I mean, from a motive, I don't think we can we can know just yet, but I mean, we can say a few things. And we reported on a search warrant of a property owned by the man who owned the property where the girls' bodies were found. And that spoke to a very bloody crime scene and just a very upsetting idea that somebody would do that to these two girls. And that speaks to like a level of heinousness, I think, in this case. And I don't, I don't know what we could say about motive there. But, I mean, either way, this was just a, it was a despicable and cowardly act, I guess is what I would say.

And as for, you know, leaving it open about like, are there other people involved? You know, it's one of those things where the fact, typically when you see an arrest, I would imagine in most cases, you have the police being like, all right, now we're ready to go to trial. Today, we heard something a little different. It's we made an arrest. This is a huge step. We're all very proud. of this that we got to this point. And this is great news for the case. But also, don't stop getting in contact with us. The case is not over. It's like, oh, feel free to send it tips. It was very much, we're still going at this. It's an active investigation. And to the point where we're not going to talk about it publicly too much because that could jeopardize it. And that tells us that there's the very least an interest in either other figures or certain key aspects of information that investigators are, I guess, still looking to run down.

Kevin, tell us what you feel like the victims in these cases. They often get lost. What have you learned about the two girls who were murdered in this case? They were two wonderful, intelligent little girls who had a whole lifetime ahead of them, a lifetime that would have been full of special moments for them and for their loved ones. And it was all taken away from them and from those. who loved them in the blink of an eye back in 2017. And that's something we always try to keep

in the front of our minds. And today, seeing the family of those little girls at that press conference and just thinking about what this moment must mean to them to finally know that they're going to begin to see some real answers that was really heartening. I think their legacy lives on here in Delphi and around the world, people deeply care

about these girls, their families. These girls were deeply loved, and there's a park in their memory here in Delphi that sort of is a bit of a legacy, a nice, peaceful place where people can go and sort of reflect on the positive impact that these girls have left behind. And you also have, they have scholarship funds in their name, so there's a real sense of Libby and Abbey being very much present here today in this town of Delphi, and they're remembered, they're not forgotten, and they're not just remembered for the horrible way in which they died. that they're remembered for how they lived, who they were, and just a very positive legacy left behind. Unlike whoever is convicted of killing them will leave a legacy of just destruction and hate. And I think it's important for people to, as you said, just keep Abby and Libby and their thoughts and keep them at the center of this. Most definitely. Well, Anya Carter and Kevin Greenlee, hosts of the Murder Sheet podcast. Thanks so much for coming on. We appreciate it. Thank you so

having us. We really appreciate you. And that's it for this edition of Law and Crime Sidebar podcast. It is produced by Sam Goldberg and Logan Harris. Bobby Zoki is our YouTube manager. Alyssa Fisher handles our bookings and Kira Bronson does our social media. You can listen to and download Sidebar wherever you get your podcast. That's Apple, Google, Spotify, and many other places. And of course, as always, you can watch it on Law and Crimes YouTube channel. I'm Ann Jeanette Levy, and we will see you next time.

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