Law&Crime Sidebar - Depp v. Heard Day 20 Recap

Episode Date: May 24, 2022

Amber Heard wrapped up her case by calling an orthopedic surgeon who said a vodka bottle couldn't have severed Johnny Depp's finger. A psychiatrist for Heard's legal team opined that Depp has narcissistic personality traits and that he is a perpetrator of intimate partner violence despite never meeting with Depp. An entertainment industry expert testified Depp's lawyer, Adam Waldman, cost Heard $50 million dollars. Stay tuned for Kate Moss!SUPPORT THE SHOW:Get Surfshark VPN at https://surfshark.deals/LAW83 - enter promo code LAW83 for 83% off and 3 extra months for free!READ FULL TRIAL RECAPS:lawandcrime.comCHECK OUT OUR OTHER PODCASTS:Court JunkieThey Walk Among AmericaCoptales and CocktailsSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can binge all episodes of this Law and Crimes series ad-free right now. Join Wondry Plus in the Wondery app Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Agent Nate Russo returns in Oracle 3, Murder at the Grandview, the latest installment of the gripping Audible Original series. When a reunion at an abandoned island hotel turns deadly, Russo must untangle accident from murder. But beware, something sinister lurks in the grand. View Shadows. Joshua Jackson delivers a bone-chilling performance in this supernatural thriller that will

keep you on the edge of your seat. Don't let your fears take hold of you as you dive into this addictive series. Love thrillers with a paranormal twist? The entire Oracle trilogy is available on Audible. Listen now on Audible. Based on your analysis, what if any impact did Ms. Heard's op-ed have on whether Mr. Depp could claim a loss for Pirate Six? Zero. Heard calls an entertainment consultant to try to prove statements made by Johnny Depp's lawyer, Adam Waldman, hurt her career. But that's not all. A lot happened in court on Monday. I'm Ann Janette Levy, live from the Fairfax County Courthouse, and welcome to Law and Crimes Sidebar podcast. This is where we take a closer look at the testimony in Johnny Depp versus Amber Hurd.

We got some big news on Monday, and some weird things happened in the courtroom. Really weird. More on that later. But first, Amber Heard called Catherine Arnold, an expert witness. who testified that Amber Hurd's star was on the rise until Johnny Depp's lawyer Adam Waldman accused her of orchestrating an abuse hoax. I like to call Aquaman really, you know, Amber Hurd's star is born moment. It was that moment where not only was she a good actor, but she was now world renown because she was in the most successful film almost of all time, if not all time, and certainly for DC comics. Arnold testified that she believed Waldman's

statements caused a $50 million loss to heard, which is a $1,000. interesting because Heard is suing for $100 million claiming mental distress. On cross-examination, Depp's lawyer Wayne Denison questioned Arnold's opinion. She had been able to overcome the negative publicity surrounding the divorce or the initial filing of the UK lawsuit and the other lawsuits. Anything that she was associated, she overcame that. She did Justice League and she did Aquaman and she did the stand and she got the L'Oreal contract all after that. The only time her career slowed down and stopped was at the same time that those defamatory statements came out so but there's a lot of other activity that happened following the defamatory statements you said every time mr. Depp files a lawsuit

it ignites the fire around the both of them right no actually said it ignites the fire mostly around mr. Depp that was in con that was excuse me please I'm sorry that was in context of when I was asked about Mr. Depp's career. I was not in context of when I was asked about Ms. Heard's career. It's not the same fire? It is and isn't. Who's the protagonist in the case in the UK

was Mr. Depp? Ms. Heard was a witness to that case. She was not a part of the case. So most of the negative press went... There was enormous amounts of negative activity around Ms. Heard as a result of the U.K. case. Isn't that true?

There was negativity. Yes, about it, I remember both of them in the case, yes. Right. Substantial amounts of negativity. Right. And so you can't tell me that that negativity isn't the thing that keeps your, or misheard from working. Well, again, it was a close time frame. The negative statements were a much closer time frame to the press and publicity around Aquaman and the stand than the UK case, which was months later.

So again, I will look at that the defendatory statements is kind of the igniting force, and it was promoted, and kind of more oxygen was put on the fire when the U.K.s came out. So it kind of became a snowball effect. Now, earlier in the morning, Dr. Richard Moore, an orthopedic surgeon testified about Johnny Depp's severed finger and what he believes caused it and what he believes didn't cause it. Dr. Moore, based on your analysis, did Mr. Depp's finger injury happen? as a result of a vodka bottle being thrown at him. Objection leading. Overrule. I'm sorry.

No. And what is the basis for that opinion? Well, the medical data is inconclusive. It's not consistent with what we see in the described injury pattern or in the clinical photographs. And there are several elements. There's, you know, the description was that a hand being flat on a bar, and the bottle crushing the finger from the top.

But looking at the images, there's really no significant injury to the dors from the finger, and to create the type of injury with that type of a crush injury, we would anticipate both injury to the fingernail and other parts of the finger. You said the hand resting flat on the bar. Can you show the jury what direction the hand was resting based on the documents you've reviewed?

I think that the demonstration was with a hand flat like this across and maybe even curled over the edge of the bar like this. Which side was facing upward? Which side of the hand? The back of the hand, or we call it the dorsal surface of the hand, was up. Doctor, if you could get closer to the microphone. Oh, I just appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you, Your Honor.

So you referred to the back of the hand as the dorsal side of the hand. Is that right? Correct. Sort of like the dorsal fin on a shark. Correct. Fair. And what is the other side of the hand called? The Palmer's surface. Depp has said Hurd became enraged over discussions about a post-nuptial agreement and became angry when he started drinking because of the stress of it all. So she threw two vodka bottles at him. The second was a larger one than your typical bottle of liquor. Camille Vasquez pinned Dr. Moore down on his opinion. But it's your testimony sitting here today that you can rule out that the injury was caused by a vodka bottle.

Is that your testimony? My testimony is that I can rule out the injury as caused by the mechanism described by Mr. Depp in his deposition. But you can't definitively say what caused the injury to Mr. Depp's finger. Well, the definitive injury is a crush injury, but again, I can't say. I mean, I think it's quite likely that, that the initial mechanism described at the time of presentation of the accordion

doors would would classically create this injury pattern you know the hand up in front if you picture accordion doors as the end as the edges closed if the hands up the palm is exposed if the doors pushed dr moore I understand that but my question is I think it's important that they understand that this is the time for me to ask you questions your council will have the ability to rehabilitate you and ask you questions on redirect. Right now, let's try my question. Okay. You can't definitively say what caused the injury to Mr. Depp's fingers. Yes or no? No. Okay. Also testifying psychiatrist Dr. David Spiegel, who has not evaluated Johnny Depp. He testified that he

believes Johnny Depp has narcissistic personality traits and is a perpetrator of intimate partner violence. So in my opinion, based on my review of the evidence, based on my clinical experience, based on my publishing experience, based on my teaching experience, that Mr. Depp has behaviors that are consistent with both someone who has a substance use disorder, as well as consistent behaviors for someone who's a perpetrative intimate partner violence. This podcast is sponsored by Surf Shark. Surf Shark can get rid of a lot of problems for you with an easy-to-use, one-for-all solution. Surfshark turns you into an anonymous,

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so there's no risk. Surf with your own set of rules. The link is in the description. Spiegel cited Depp's drug use and other factors. Depp's lawyer's question, Dr. Spiegel, about the ethics of drawing such a conclusion when he hadn't evaluated Depp, a request Depp and his team rejected. Remember, only Amber Heard was ordered by the court to undergo a mental health evaluation because of the emotional distress she claims to have suffered by Adam Waldman's statements. Things got a little bit weird when Dr. Spiegel on cross-examination was questioned about his ideas on Depp wearing an earpiece on movie sets.

Your testimony about the use of an earpiece, as maybe you were wrong, you're comfortable with the fact that you may have made a mistake there? No, because I think in the basis of what I've read about it, I'm comfortable that I don't believe that actors are routinely given their entire script to earpieces. I find that hard to believe. Yeah. But not one wit of evidence that this ever happened here. I guess what I said. I just said, I find it hard to believe. I didn't say and I said I find it hard to believe.

That's all I said. Yeah, but what you found hard to believe, sir, was that every line of the script was pumped to an earpiece. Where did you ever get the idea that ever, that occurred? That's what I have been, that's what I read. And the court review, the court evidence, that's where I got it for it. And, you know whether Marlon Brando used an earpiece? Whether, isn't he dead?

Yeah. So the answer is no, he does not use. one now. No, I used the past tense. Oh, I'm sorry. Again, I know nothing, I will concede to you, I know nothing about acting. I will concede you 100%. If that is the standard and people are done that's acting, then I apologize and that was wrong on my part. If that's the standard, I'm wrong. I don't know. Now, what's weird about this is that Marlon Brando is one of Johnny Depp's idols and they were close friends. Brando died in 2004, so he's been gone a long time and when he passed away, it was pretty big news, but apparently Dr. Spiegel didn't know.

Amber Hurd's team was fully expected to call Johnny Depp to the stand as an adverse witness. He was supposed to be the third witness of the day, but it didn't happen. And after the lunch break, a source close to Amber Heard released a statement, comparing calling Depp to the stand as relevant as a bicycle to a fish. Now, what's so interesting about this is that Depp's lawyers asked Judge As Karate whether Depp would be called in Heard's case. Her lead attorney said they were still discussing the possibility, which seems odd. Either you're going to call him or you're not. Now, we also got some big news about Depp's rebuttal case, and we told you about this a couple of weeks ago.

Remember the Kate Moss fist pump when Amber Heard talked about Kate Moss in the stairs? That's when she said she hit Depp for the first time ever because she feared he would hurt her sister. We told you at the time that Herd opened the door to bringing up Depp's X, and we were right. Heard had testified in the UK case that two people had told her that Depp threw Moss down a set of stairs. Kate Moss, the beautiful British supermodel, will testify for her ex-boyfriend and still friend Johnny Depp. Expect Kate Moss to talk about how Depp took care of her and never threw her down a set of stairs. Also testifying about the staircase incident for Depp in rebuttal, a friend of Heard's sister, Jennifer Howell, who will contradict the account given by Whitney Enriquez, who said Depp,

hit her at the top of the stairs. Hal wrote in a declaration that Enriquez told her she feared Amber Herd would kill Johnny Depp. And Johnny Depp and Dr. Curry will also testify, along with a Disney executive. Also in court on Monday, there was this really odd event that happened. During the morning break, a woman stood up holding a baby and said, Johnny, I love you. Our souls are connected. He turned around and waved. And then the woman held up her baby and said, this baby is yours. Now, the woman was escorted out of the courtroom. I think people were flabbergasted that she stood up and said this and we actually spoke with her outside of the courthouse and she said that she was joking. So just something to end with there, Johnny Depp does not have a mystery baby floating around the Fairfax

County Courthouse. So that's it for this edition of Law and Crime Sidebar Podcast. We are right outside the courthouse sitting outside covering everything for you. We are also inside the courtroom. Jesse Weber and I are here all week. You can find Sidebar wherever you get your podcasts, Apple, Spotify, and YouTube as well. I'm Anjanette Levy, and we will see you next time. You can binge all episodes of this long crime series, ad free right now on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.