Law&Crime Sidebar - Depp v. Heard Day 9 Recap

Episode Date: April 27, 2022

Law&Crime's Angenette Levy recaps the top three moments from day 9 of the Johnny Depp vs. Amber Heard defamation trial. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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will keep you on the edge of your seat. Don't let your fears take hold of you as you dive into this addictive series. Love thrillers with a paranormal twist? The entire Oracle trilogy is available on Audible. Listen now on Audible. Hi there. Welcome to Law and Crime's Sidebar podcast. This is where we recap the day's biggest moments in the trials that you are watching. And let me tell you, everyone is watching Johnny Depp versus Amber Heard. It's the definitely. trial between the two Hollywood exes. I'm Ann Jeanette Levy, and I am here in Fairfax County, Virginia. I'm actually at the courthouse right now covering this trial.

Tuesday was another riveting day full of testimony. Now, Depp is suing heard, you'll recall, for $50 million, claiming she defamed him in an op-ed she wrote back in December of 2018 in the Washington Post. In that op-ed, she said that she had become a public figure representing domestic abuse two years prior. Now, back in 2016, that was the two years prior, Hurd had filed for divorce and days later went to court and was granted domestic violence restraining order against Johnny Depp. But Johnny Depp says when they were in this relationship in this marriage, it was actually Amber Heard who was the abuser. Amber Heard, in turn, is countersuing Depp for $100 million, claiming he launched a smear campaign against her. Now, Tuesday's testimony began with Tara Roberts.

She has managed Johnny Depp's Island in the Bahamas for 15 years. She said she first met Amber Hurd back in 2013. What was your impression of Ms. Hurd when you first met her? Oh, they were very nice, a couple in love. She cooked for him, cleaned up. They took care of each other. They were a very happy couple. When, if at all, did that change?

with each visit it changed more of um it was more not like an island life anymore it was more of wines and and more requests uh simple things toiletries uh to have things here in place before they came or she came as well um so it you know luggage changed we got more and more luggage we I mean, just things evolved and kind of mushroomed, mushroomed a bit. Roberts recalled a time when she and another employee overheard an argument between Johnny Depp and Amber heard in the house they were staying in on the island. This was December of 2015. Amber was telling him that he was a washed up actor. He was going to die, a fat, lonely old man.

Then you heard, you hit me with a can. You heard Johnny say, you hit me with a can. And then he came down the steps. and Amber was behind him and she had a bottle in her hand was removed and there was a brief pause in the moment I think of initial shock or uncertainty of why you know that we were there they need neither Johnny nor and Amber knew that we were there he proceeded to walk back to the John Deere and she again walked he was a sitting in the seat he Amber came up to him and was asking him to come back in the house that she was sorry, please come back in the house. And he didn't come out of the seat, and she was hugging and kissing him and I love you,

I love you. She was telling him I loved you. He didn't react. Joni sat there, eventually got out of the John Deere and proceeded to start to walk away. At that time, Amber started to grab at him in his shirt and trying to pull him back to the house, just basically viciously trying to pull him back. What did you observe when you went back to the cafe with Mr. Dent? When we went back to the cafe, he had a mark across the bridge of his nose. I got a bag of ice to put on it so that it wouldn't swell,

just to make sure that it wasn't bleeding. He walked over to the love seat at the cafe, and he laid down and went to sleep, and C.J. came back over, and I asked C.J. to stay there for the remainder of the evening, for the remainder of the morning, and I left C.J. inside the cafe, and I left Johnny on the couch. Roberts then testified about what she found at that house after Depp and Heard left the island. What did you observe when you went through that process? um the island was the island was as it was when they arrived the only thing that was different was the there was the liquid on the on the deck with a can i believe of mineral spirits or something there next to it which had leaked out onto the deck and then in the um over the railing um were paint brushes and um art supplies paint brushes um paint tubes uh big jars of the paints are in

and those were all scattered in the bush. Now, Hurd's lawyer, Elaine Brettahoff, questioned Roberts about the salary redebt pays her. It's about $120,000 a year. And she's clearly suggesting that Roberts is biased. She also asked Roberts about the arguments she had described. Breta Hoff also then questioned Roberts about whether or not Amber Hurd ever wore makeup on the island. And Amber Hurd's habits with makeup, how much she wore, what brands has really been a big issue in this trial. because Amber Hurd claims that she would cover up bruises and cuts caused by Johnny Depp with makeup.

But Roberts said if Hurd was wearing any makeup on the island, it was a natural look. Then the questioning about that December 2015 argument continued. On the December trip, you testified about a few arguments between Amber and Johnny, right? Do you recall that testimony? Yes, I do. Okay. You weren't present when Johnny sustained the greek. dash on his nose, correct?

I wasn't there, no. Okay. And you weren't present when the mess was made through the paints that you've described, correct? No. And so you don't know whether there had been a physical altercation that led to throwing a paint can to try to slow down. Johnny, right?

No, I just heard yelling in the house. Okay. But that, that yelling in the house wasn't necessarily the same time, was it? You don't know, do you? No, it was all in the same. Okay, no. Okay. Roberts was also asked about Hurd in-depth drinking habits.

She said Amber Hurd usually drank wine in the afternoon or with dinner. She also said that Johnny Depp went through periods of time where he didn't drink at all. But there were other times when he drank alcohol, she described his tolerance as huge. She said she'd never seen him passed out on direct examination. But on cross-examination, she described an incident where she found Depp seemingly passed out. He was passed out. I picked him up and brushed him off and he said, I left him underneath the, I believe he was in a hammock. And I believe he'd fallen asleep.

or he was asleep and the hammock had overturned. And I picked him up and brushed him off and left him underneath him and I with Jack. Okay, no further questions. Imagine spending 16 years in prison for a crime you didn't commit. Or imagine being on the jury at a trial where you have to decide whether a father murdered a family

or whether it was a cartel hit. This is Jillian from Court Junkie, a podcast that examines criminal cases and trials. Each week, I give you the facts of a new case and let you decide if you agree with the outcome. Make sure to subscribe to Court Junkie on Apple, Spotify, or any of your favorite podcast apps. Next up, Dr. Shannon Curry, a forensic psychologist retained by Johnny Depp's lawyers, she testified about Amber Heard's mental health. Dr. Curry told the jury that she spent about 12 hours with Amber Heard on two separate occasions, last December. The results of Ms. Heard's evaluation supported two diagnoses, borderline personality

disorder and histrionic personality disorder. They could use manipulation tactics to try to get their needs met, very needy of attention, acceptance, approval. They tend to distance people who are close to them. Initially, they may seem very charming. They're very socially sophisticated, actually. That was a major component on there. They have a capacity to kind of offer some of their faults, but in a way, but only the ones that people think of lightly and can all relate to. And so they can present as very fair and balanced, but in actuality, they really might be very judgmental of others and unaware of problems in their behavior and their thinking. One of the primary things I learned was that she had a very sophisticated way of minimizing any personal problems.

I also learned that she tends to, well, there were a number of characteristics that were consistent with the eventual diagnoses, but some of the primary characteristics, and I'm going to try to condense 25 pages here, were essentially externalization. of blame, tending to have a lot of inner hostility that is attempted to be controlled, a tendency to be very self-righteous, but to also deny that self-righteousness and to judge others critically against these sort of high standards for moral value, but also to deny doing that, essentially to claim that one is very non-judgmental and accepting, and yet very full of rage, really. And these aren't facts, but her scores essentially correlated. So they were consistent with other people who obtained these scores, who have been shown

through many, many, many studies to have these very specific traits. Now, you might be listening to this and thinking to yourself, why on earth would Amber heard sit down with a forensic psychologist who was retained by Johnny Depp's legal team? Well, the answer is pretty simple. she didn't really have a choice. We did some digging and it turns out that when Amber Hurd filed her countersuit against Johnny Depp, she claimed mental distress from the defamation that she claims she suffered from Depp and one of his lawyers, Adam Waldman. Now that made her mental health a key issue. So Judge Penny Ascarati granted Depp's request to have Herd evaluated by an expert of his legal

team's choosing. Hurd's lawyers then wanted a psychological evaluation of Johnny Depp, as you can imagine. But since he never made his mental health an issue in this case, that request was denied. And she said she evaluated Amber Hurd for post-traumatic stress disorder. Herd claims she suffers from PTSD from the abuse that she suffered at the hands of Johnny Depp. Ms. Hurd did not have PTSD, and there were also pretty significant indications that she was grossly exaggerating symptoms of PTSD when asked about them. Then came the cross-examination by Hurd's lawyer, Elaine Brettahoff, who, wasted no time attacking Curry's credentials and her credibility. Now, you went to Mr. Depp's home for dinner and drinks before you were hired as an expert in this case, correct? That's not quite

right. I was interviewed at Mr. Depp's home by his legal team. Dinner was served. In attendance with Mr. Depp was Adam Waldman, correct? Yes. Ben Chu, correct? Yes. Camille Vasquez. Yes. Okay. And the dinner lasted approximately three to four hours, correct? Yes. And it included drinks. Correct?

Yes. Dinner and I believe drinks were served. Okay. And this was before you were hired as an expert, correct? Yes. This was an interview so that they could make an informed decision as to whether or not to retain me. And don't you think that's a little odd that you're getting interviewed by Mr. Depp to decide whether you're going to testify adversely.

adversely against Amber Hurd? I was interviewed by the legal team. And Mr. Depp was present. It was his home, correct? Yes. And he was serving dinner and drinks. He was not serving dinner and drinks. Well, it was at his house at his behest, correct? Yes, it was at his house. The implication is pretty clear here.

Brett O'Hoff is basically saying that Dr. Curry was some type of starstruck fan girl and that she was paid to shape her opinion about Amber Hurd. probably remember Johnny Depp told Amber Hurd in a recording in 2016 that she had borderline personality disorder. And Brettahoff questioned Dr. Curry about that, how her findings were similar to what Johnny Depp had claimed. Breta Hoff also questioned Dr. Curry about Amber Hurd telling people who had treated her previously that Johnny Depp had abused her. Do you recall Dr. Cowan testifying that not only did he believe Amber in her reporting of the abuse by Depp, but that she had no ulterior motive?

I actually don't recall that. I'm not saying that it didn't occur. Okay. Do you recall Dr. Cowen testifying that he believed the relationship was toxic and he was concerned for Amber's physical well-being? I do recall him saying that he believed the relationship was toxic. And you don't recall Dr. Cowen saying that he was concerned for Amber's physical well-being? I don't remember those exact words. On redirect, Depp's lawyers questioned Dr. Curry about the difference between providing treatment and performing an evaluation to offer an opinion.

She says there's a big difference. So when you're providing therapy, you're in a very different role than an examiner. When you're the forensic examiner, you're just really looking at data to make a decision. When you're a therapist, you're an advocate for your client's well-being. And in fact, it's considered extremely unethical for a treating provider to ever provide. opinion testimony like I'm providing because it's so well known in our field that you're going to have an automatic bias for your client. And the last witness of the day was LAPD officer Melissa Sines. She was one of the officers who responded to the penthouse where Depp and Hurd lived on

May 21st, 2016. That is a crucial date because that is the night that Johnny Depp and his security team went to the penthouse to collect Johnny Depp's belongings and Depp said he was going to tell Amber Hurd that it was over. Amber Hurd says during this whole incident that Johnny Depp threw a phone at her and assaulted her leaving a mark on her eye. But Officer Signs said that she didn't find any evidence of a crime and did not identify Amber Hurd as a victim of domestic violence. She said her face only appeared red from crying. Signs also described Hurd as uncooperative saying the actress claimed she had had an argument with her husband. Signs left a business card with Hurd and said if she changed her mind about filing a report that she should call them.

More police officers who responded to that May 2016 call to the penthouse will also testify Wednesday. And then next week, we are expecting to hear Amber Heard when she takes the stand in her case. And that's it for this edition of Law and Crimes Sidebar Podcast. You can find this podcast on YouTube, Spotify, Apple, and wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Ann Jeanette Levy again from Fairfax County, Virginia at the courthouse. We'll see you next time. You can binge all episodes of this law and crime series ad free right now on Wondery Plus.

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