Law&Crime Sidebar - Depp v. Heard - Week 2 Recap

Episode Date: April 25, 2022

Law&Crime's Jesse Weber recaps the top moments from week two of the Johnny Depp & Amber Heard Defamation Trial.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can binge all episodes of this Law and Crimes series ad-free right now. Join Wondry Plus in the Wondery app Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Agent Nate Russo returns in Oracle 3, Murder at the Grandview, the latest installment of the gripping Audible Original series. When a reunion at an abandoned island hotel turns deadly, Russo must untangle accident from murder. But beware, something sinister lurks in the grand. View Shadows. Joshua Jackson delivers a bone-chilling performance in this supernatural thriller that will

keep you on the edge of your seat. Don't let your fears take hold of you as you dive into this addictive series. Love thrillers with a paranormal twist? The entire Oracle trilogy is available on Audible. Listen now on Audible. Hey there, everybody and welcome to Sidebar, presented by Law and Crime. This is where we recap the biggest moments in the day's biggest trials. I'm Jesse Weber. So we're talking the ongoing trial of Johnny Depp versus Amber Heard out in Fairfax County, Virginia. We just wrapped up day seven. In fact, I was in court there all week. It was a pretty surreal experience to be there, especially watching Johnny Depp testify.

He goes from the silver screen. to a witness box. Not every day you see that. Now, just to give everybody a recap, Depp is suing his ex-wife, actress Amber Hurd, for $50 million, claiming defamation, namely that she falsely accused him of domestic abuse in a 2018 Washington Post article, an opinion piece that she wrote. And that article, he claims, ruined his life and ruined his career. Now, she's actually countersuing him for $100 million, saying that he defamed her when he allegedly orchestrated a public smear campaign against her, calling her a liar and faking her injuries. So clearly this is getting very, very ugly between the two of them.

Depp is the plaintiff in this case, so he's presenting his case first. He's presenting his own witnesses. And the week started off with some doctors who treated Depp for major substance abuse issues. Now, Hurd's team is saying that drugs, alcohol, it made him violent, it made him dangerous, it made him verbally and emotionally abusive towards Heard. But also, all of these problems, that is what contributed to Depp torpedoing his own career. That it wasn't the Washington Post, that it wasn't heard. It was all Johnny Depp's fault for Johnny Depp's career demise.

Now, Depp hasn't steered away from admitting that he had a substance abuse problem. He's been adamant, though, that you can do drugs, you can be an alcoholic, but that doesn't mean that you're a wifebeater. And we started the week with more of the doctor who treated Depp, Dr. David Kipper. He's heard tell you that she was concerned about Mr. Depp being violent with her at this conflict. No. If she had told you that, is that something you would have documented in these notes? Yes.

And we also heard from Depp's private nurse, Debbie Lloyd, who helped him through the detoxification process. Do you recall any instance? where you witness misheard try to start a fight with mr. death how many instances do you remember i don't recall specific numbers do you remember at least one yes do you remember more than one yes more than two i don't recall specific numbers What do you remember about that first instance that you can remember? I remember one night trying to leave the penthouse and Amber standing in the elevator and not letting us leave. Not only is this a continuation of testimony, which we already heard, that people close to the couple didn't observe Johnny Depp being violent with Amber Heard or notice any injuries on her.

But you also see Depp showing that Amber Heard was that. the instigator, that she's the one who started the fights, that she was the problem. We also saw the testimony of Sean Bet. This is Depp's security guard who's been with him for years. And he recounted this very strange story that when he walked in on Depp and Hurd arguing, Heard did and said something a bit odd. How was Ms. Heard standing? Where were her hands?

Her hands would have been in this motion. Once Mr. Judge and I rounded that corner and she saw both Jerry and I, she had this look a surprise on her face, and then she looked at Mr. Depp and us, and she shouted out loud, this is the last time you do this to me. At which point, Mr. Depp looked at her and said, what the hell are you talking about? Did you have a clear view of Ms. Hurd? I did. Did you have a clear view of her face? I did. Did you observe any injuries on Ms. Hurd's face? I didn't. Did you see any redness? I didn't.

Swelling? None Was Miss Hurd holding her face? She wasn't. Okay, the insinuation being here that when an audience shows up, she wanted to look like Depp had hit her even though that never happened.

A lot of the testimony that we've seen from Depp's side has obviously cast heard in a negative light, namely that she's a liar, an abuser, manipulative, and really, frankly, straight out mean. Here's what Keenan Wyatt, who's a friend of Depp's a sound technician who's worked with him for years, said about an interaction he had with Amber Hurd on a private plane. What, if anything, did you observe about Ms. Hurd's behavior on that Boston flight?

Well, she was given Johnny the cold shoulder, being quiet and, you know, seemed pouty. What, if any, conversation did you have with Ms. Hurd on the flight? At one point, I went up to her and said something to the effect of, you know, he cares about you. And all of a sudden, she snapped and started yelling at me, how dare you talk to me, get away from me. You know, so I went back to the seat and minded my own business. When she said those things to you, would you describe the tone of her voice if you remember it? She was abruptly loud. It was a quiet plane all of a sudden.

It got very loud. But what we've all been waiting for and what happened this week while I was in court was Johnny Depp, the plaintiff himself, taking the stand. And I want to tell you when that happened, the whole courtroom went silent. The jury, who I was looking at, were glued to him like a hawk. They were listening to every word he had to say. And he started off by explaining the $50 million question, why do this? Why expose all of your dirty laundry to the world? Why risk losing a legal case?

Here's what he had to say. I had to wait for my opportunity to address the charges, which were criminal charges. And they just weren't true. So I felt the responsibility of clearing the record as, The only way that I could get to get to the point where I could speak has really taken this full six years. And it's been six years of trying times. It's very strange when one day. you're Cinderella, so to speak, and then in 0.6 seconds, you're Quasimoto.

And I didn't deserve that, nor did my children, nor did the people who have believed in me for all these years. I didn't want anybody, any of those people to believe that I had done them wrong or lied to them or that I was a fraud. I'm, I pride myself on honesty. I pride myself on truth. Truth is the only thing I'm interested in. There are lies will get you nowhere, but lies build upon lies and build upon lies. It's too much to cover.

I'm obsessed with the truth. And so today is my, actually, the first opportunity that I've been able to speak about this case in full for the first time. Mr. Depp, have you ever physically assaulted, misheard? Never. Have you ever sexually assaulted misheard? never certainly not what have you lost as a result of misheard making these allegations against you you nothing less than everything so depth started off his testimony by explaining that he was abused by his mother and that his father just took that abuse he never fought back later on he basically said

he would do the same thing with amber her He would get attacked, he would try to walk away, he would lock himself in a room or actually even book another hotel room on trips just to get away from her, but he would never fight back, essentially saying that Amber Hurd was the abuser and he was the victim in all of this. And when I say attacked, I mean a few things here, he would say that Amber Hurd would insult him, namely by taking insecurities, things that he shared with her and turning them against him. For instance, she would call him a bad father. That is something that really hurt him, given how bad his upbringing was with his parents. But even more than that, he detailed how Amber Hurd would hit him, throw things at him. The jury even saw pictures of bruises on Depp's face, pictures that were taken by his security guard. What is this a picture of?

That is, that's me in the emergency room. I see, I see a detail. I forgot, I'd forgotten, which is the, Missouri had pulled, taking my cigarette from the the ashtray and stomped it out in my face here. Could you mark on the screen where you see that? It's right above that green dot. And then there is the infamous finger incident, where while filming in Australia for Pirates of the Caribbean Five,

it has been a back and forth about whether he actually cut his own finger during a fight with Amber Heard, something that he originally told his doctors because he claimed he didn't want Amber Heard to get in trouble, versus what he says now, that Amber Heard threw a bottle of vodka at him, shattering and severing his finger. So I stood up and I walked behind the bar,

and there was a larger bottle of vodka, the kind with a handle, you know, on it. I grabbed that, and I went, and I sat in my seat again. I opened the bottle, and I poured myself a shot and drank it. Ms. Herd was flinging insults, left, right, and center, and she then grabbed that bottle, and threw that at me. And the way that the bar was situated and where Ms. Herb was, so if, if I could show you, so if, if this is the bar, where the glass was and the bottles, If this was the bar and I'm sitting here like this, she would grab the bottle and she would go there. She went there.

And so I was leaning like this in the chair looking at her. First bottle went, then got the other bottle shot, takes the second bottle, which was the larger one. I'm in this position again, and my hand is on the edge of the. the bar like that, leaning over the fingers like that. And she threw the large bottle and it made contact and shattered everywhere. And I honestly didn't, I didn't feel the pain at first at all. I felt no pain whatsoever. What I felt was I felt heat.

I felt heat and I felt as if something were dripping down my hand, you know. And then I looked down and realized that the tip of my finger had been severed. And I was looking directly at my bones sticking out. And the meaty portion of your inside of your finger, and it was, blood was just pouring out. out. I should tell you that we and the jury all saw this graphic photo of Depp's finger as well, something that I'm sure they'll have a hard time forgetting. But one of the biggest highlights and a huge bombshell for Depp was when his team played an audio recording between the couple.

I said to you, hey, tell Travis what just happened. Oh, you told me to do it. You told me to. You said, go do that. I said, no, tell them what just happened. And I lied. And that you punched me in the thing. You figured it all up. And you said, I'm fucking that I didn't. What the f***ing about? And I watched you lie. I didn't punch you, by the way. You, I'm sorry that I didn't hit you across the face in a proper slap, but I was hitting you. It was not punching you. Babe, you're not punched. Don't tell me what

it feels like to be punched. You know, even a lot of fights. You've been around a long time. I don't know. Yeah. No. When you have a close. You didn't get punched. You got hit. I'm sorry I hit you like this. But I did not punch you. I did not deck you. I was hitting you. I don't know what the motion of my actual hand was. But you're fine.

I did not hurt you. I did not punch you. I was hitting you. How are you tough? What am I supposed to do? Do this? I'm not sitting here bitching about it, am I? You are.

That's the difference between me and you. You're a baby. You are such a baby. Grow all the fuck up, Johnny. Because you start a physical fights? I did start a physical fight. Because... Yes, you did.

So you did the right thing, the big thing. You know what? You are admirable. It's not to get you mad. It's just to get out of a bad situation while it's happening before it gets worse. In Australia, when we had the big fight where I lost the tip of my finger, at least five bathrooms and two bedrooms I went to. to to avoid talking to me to avoid working it out to escape the fight you don't escape the fight you escape the solution you escape the solution no escape figuring it out we cannot work it out

if you run away to the bathroom every time listen to me listen to me a boxer can't go 12 rounds without a five minute break i'm not not giving you a minute break you do it at minute three at the beginning of an argument. No. There are rounds, man. And when it gets too hairy, the refs them apart or whatever.

But all I'm saying is you can't have a solution if the argument just keeps mounting and mounting and mounting and mounting. I go into the bathroom and sit on the floor. Bam, bam, bam,

bam, here you come. I come out. Fight, fight, fight, fight, crazy, escalated. I'd go split again, I'd go to another bathroom or a bedroom or something. Knock, knock, knock, bang, bang. You kept coming

to get me. And this is huge. And this is huge because Amber Hurd is admitting that she attacks Depp and she complains that he runs away. This corroborates his whole story. It makes him credible. And at the very least, this makes his defamation claim stronger

and her counterclaim that he lied, that he lied about her being an abuser, It makes that counterclaim much weaker. And in fact, he alleged that she would make up injuries. He recounted a time that they got into a fight and he put her in a bear hug to try to stop her from hitting him. And according to him, she says that he headbutted her and broke her nose, even though he says, I didn't make any contact with her nose. She goes into another room, grabs a Kleenex, puts it to her nose. There is a red substance.

She throws the Kleenex out, walks out, and when he goes to retrieve it, listen to what he says happened. And I knew I hadn't, so I said in, you go into sort of placation mode, which is, oh my God, let me see, are you okay, what happened, let me see, and she wouldn't let me see anything. And so I just tried to calm the situation as best I could. all the while I was waiting for her to dispense with that Kleenex because I didn't trust it and so I waited

and went she dropped it into the waste basket in her bathroom or in our bathroom and left the room went somewhere down I think, I don't know. And then I pulled the Kleenex out of the, out of the trash bin.

And I inspected it pretty closely and realized that it was nail polish, his nail varnish or polish. After him testifying on direct for about a day and a half, it was then time for him to be cross-examined by one of Hurd's lawyers, Jay Benjamin Rottenborn. and he started with a very important point. This article, this opinion piece in the middle of the page there, Mr. Depp, this is the opinion piece that Amber Hurd wrote in the Washington Post that was published on December 18, 2018, correct? Uh, uh, uh, shouldn't I say December 19th on it? At the top of the page, doesn't I say December 19th,

2018? Go ahead and blow that up. I believe that the 2018 was the online. Is it not? Okay, so December 18th, December 19th, this piece in the middle of the page is the opinion piece Ms. Hurd wrote, right? Um, could you make it a little bigger? My idea, getting smaller.

Sure. And this is what you're suing or over. Correct? I'm suing her over defamation and the various falsities that she used to use that she used to bring my life to an end. And you understand Mr. Depp.

You understand Mr. Depp that you cannot, you are not suing her for any damage, alleged damage, or any accusations she made prior to writing this article. You're aware of that.

You'd agree with that, right? Could you say that again, Mr. Rottenborn? You are not bringing a lawsuit against her, bringing her into court in Virginia for anything that she did prior to writing this article, correct? You know that you can't do that, right? I have to say that, as I said, at the top of this, I've never seen this version of the op-ed piece. The version that I saw was the other one that I identified that was on the 18th. This is on the 19th. I believe the 18th was quite possibly, sorry, was quite possibly.

Maybe that was the online version that came out first. That's major. Because Depp talked about the injuries, he talked about heard statements in 2016. he talked about her being an abuser, talked about filing the restraining order, all how this impacted his family and his career. But he didn't quite make it clear how the Washington Post op-ed, the very thing he's suing her for, how that hurt him. If you can't show that the Washington Post article caused you significant harm, then essentially you're losing your defamation claim. Or at the very least, it's going to affect how much you would win in damages. And then Rottenborn gets Depp to acknowledge that like his mother who abused him, abuse can take many forms. It's not just physical.

In fact, Depp said that sometimes the mental and emotional abuse was worse than the physical abuse at the hands of his mother. And that's where Rottenborn spent all of Thursday going through these instances of abuse at the hands of Depp towards Herd. So a video was played for the jury. It was secretly recorded by Amber Heard, where it's in the morning in Depp's home. And he starts kicking doors, busting open cabinets. seemingly intoxicated, very angry. He pours himself a huge bottle of wine and then notice towards the end that the camera was filming him. Nothing happened this morning, you know what happened this morning, you know that?

Were you in here? No. Nothing happened to you this morning. Yeah, you're right. I just woke up and you were so sweet and nice. We were not even fighting this morning. All I did was say sorry. Did something happen to you this morning?

I don't think so. I don't think so. No. That's the thing. You want to see crazy? Don't give you. Oh, you're crazy. Have you drunk this whole thing this morning? Oh, you got this going?

Oh, really? Yes. Really? Really. See that . No, didn't it? You were smashing . There's a couple of important points here.

So even though it doesn't look like Depp actually hit heard in that video, The idea is look who Hurd is involved with. Rob Boar's trying to show that this is intimidating behavior. This could be psychological abuse, mental abuse. Look who she's around. And if he's going to be this violent, the implication is maybe he's gotten physical with her in the past. Also, if this is how he's acting, then it's Johnny Depp's own behavior that tarnished his career, the substance abuse, the anger, destroying hotel rooms. Not Amber Heard.

It's him and him alone why his career took a nose dive. And then there were the text messages from Depp, text messages that he seemed to be quite ashamed of. He would call himself a monster. He called himself a savage. He threatened to smack Amber Heard in one of these messages to a third party. And then there were the really grotesque, vile, and disturbing things that he said about Heard, like what he texted his friend, actor Paul Bettney. In this text, Mr. Depp. you text, Mr. Bettney, let's burn Amber, three exclamation points, right?

You see that? I do see that. And at this time, June 11, 2013, Amber is your girlfriend or perhaps even your fiancé at this point, correct? A girlfriend, for sure. And you didn't stop when you said, let's burn Amber. Because the next text down, you can move down and blow up the next. next text please Michelle you say let's drown her before we burn her three exclamation points did I read that right yes it's referring and and I didn't

prior to you didn't stop and you said let's drown her before we burn her after that you made another comment and I'd like to apologize to the court and to the jury for some of the language that I'm gonna have to use today but unfortunately you're going to see a lot of documents with language like this. After you said, let's drown her before we burn her, Mr. Depp, you said, I will fuck her burnt corpse afterwards to make sure she is dead. That's what you said that you would do after you burned her and after you drowned her. Did I read that right?

You certainly did, yes. And you wrote that about the woman who would later become your wife. Yes, I did. And then he sent these words to hurt herself. Eat salad with your equine, A.D. Bovine, Yerps. And thanks for the support. Have a great shoot. You sicken me. Leave me for be, Officer Squarehead. Your display of guilt and matronliness as a lesbian camp counselor was plenty.

Your future is on display. Best of luck. Best if luck Thank you for the correction Best if luck You're welcome And thanks for the tunes Bye JD Don't call again

I will begin to feel embarrassed for you Go away coach Hup Done Did I read that right? No Go away coach Done

Hup Done Thank you Otherwise did I read that right Um Sure You agree that referring to Amber as a lesbian camp counselor is a highly offensive reference to make, correct? What's the date here? 2013. It wasn't considered as egregious. There was a bit more understanding about terms. Amber also called herself a lesbian camp counselor many times.

So, I don't think I'm the first to say that. You'd agree that there's nothing appropriate about referring to your girlfriend or fiance is that, in those disparaging terms, in that text, correct? Objection compound. Sustained. You'd agree that you meant the terms in your text as an insult because you didn't like the fact that she was disapproving of your alcohol and drug habits. Objection compound.

Sustained. compound question. There was nothing. You don't have to answer that, sir. Next question. This could help make the jury believe that Depp was verbally abusing his wife and that she wasn't lying in the Washington Post. Depp tried to defend himself that he likes dark humor, he likes Monty Python humor.

Now, the implication that Depp might have physically attacked her or physically harmed her is present in other text messages when he repeatedly apologized to her, but not exactly clear what he was apologizing for. There's one message in particular that's a bit macabre and a bit dark, but Depp had a little bit of fun with. And then she writes, my throat is yours. You're going to be the death of me, but I don't care. And then you write, I have other uses for your throat, which do not include injury. I have other uses. I have other uses for your throat, which do not include injury. Sorry, could you read that again?

Your words, sir, right? I read that right, correct? You did. You can take that down. And throughout the cross-examination, Rotten Board was continually trying to call Depp's credibility into question. He was trying to show that Depp was lying about what happened to his finger. And he plays this recording between Depp and Heard.

Listen very carefully. You hear that? And you said the day I chopped my finger off. Let's play it again. That'd be great, thank you. I don't know what... I'm talking about Australia. Now we're talking about Australia.

Okay. Are you sure that's... Yeah, let's do it one more time. What I'm saying? Or is it the day that I got my finger chopped off? No, no, you say the day that I chopped my finger off. So let's play it one more time, because I think I left out the word that. It says the day that I chopped my finger off.

Like, you're talking about... I don't know what... now we're talking about Australia okay I'm not sure in fact earlier you had quoted Jerry Judge from the airplane tape is calling me a way till the fall asleep and I'm positive that those words never left his mouth because he was he would have if I I would have been making those noises in the bathroom. He would have ripped the hinges off.

Maybe they left his mouth when you were passed out, sir, respectfully. Let's listen to this one more time. I don't think he was a... Then before the week closed up, Rottenborn played one more thing for the jury. It was an audio recording between Depp and Heard from 2016. This was one of the last times that they actually saw each other face to face. They had already filed for divorce. In this recording, Depp tries to...

cut himself. And as you listen to this, there are three things to think about. One, think about the potential trauma this inflicted on her. Two, what was her purpose in recording this? Was she trying to use this to her advantage in some way, given divorce was happening? And three, if he really did try to cut himself here, did he cut his own finger in 2015? This is really pretty. Thanks. You want to cut me somewhere. Do I want to cut you? Yeah, you want it on, you want chest. What do you want? We want the scar.

You want, cut me. Don't cut your skin. Please do not cut your skin. Please don't. Why would I do that? It's easy. Don't please do not do that. Please do not do that. Please don't. Please don't cut yourself. You don't need to cut yourself.

I need to do what I want. I know. I know it hurts. I feel so. Cut me. Come here. I don't know your mark. No, you know. They're gone.

No, thank you. No, thank you. There's sperm on the pillows. I know he spits a one ounce for this because he's a f*** Don't Don't Please don't

Don't cut yourself Please don't cut yourself Please I know I hurt I would do it I would never cut you Cut me I would never do that to you Come on pussy

Come on pussy Yeah you fucking hate me Come on Come on So you cut I'm like it's really tall I have to use a sharp part Don't do that.

Don't. Don't, don't, don't, don't, don't. Please don't do that. Put the knife down. Just put the fucking knife down. Don't. Don't do that. Do not do that, Johnny. Please, you're going to hurt yourself. I want to look at you.

I know you're okay. Wait, stop. There's a way for the pain. to go away. It's not that. It doesn't make it go away. Trust me. It don't know. It do you know. It doesn't make it go away. Really? Did it make it go away? Yeah. It did? Please don't. Please don't do it. Okay. The knife is really dull and it would be the worst thing in the world to use to cut me with. It would be too painful and dull and dirty to use. Yeah, that's the tick of me. It's right. Right? It's pretty. No, no, please do not. Do not, don't.

Don't, don't, you're going to hurt yourself. Don't. It's okay. Please don't cut yourself. Please, please, please don't. Please stop, please stop, please. Don't hurt yourself, please. No, I hurt myself at all.

And that's the last thing Amber Hurd's team wanted the jury to listen to and remember as they left for the weekend. Thanks for joining us here on Sidebar. Subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. This has been Jesse Weber. Speak to you soon. You can binge all episodes of this law and crime series ad free right now on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.