Law&Crime Sidebar - Donald Trump's Assassination Attempt and The Two Shooter Theory

Episode Date: July 18, 2024

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While there's been some chatter about this, we are going to sort out fact from fiction with Chad Ayers, former sheriff's deputy and SWAT team member. Welcome to Sidebar. Presented by Law and Crime. I'm Jesse Weber. There has been a lot of speculation, rumors, theories surrounding the shooting of former President Donald Trump.

And there's one in particular that has circulated a bit. This idea of a second shooter because the shooter identified by authorities as 20-year-old Thomas Matthew Crooks, authorities say he acted alone. The question is, did he?

Did he have help? Was there a second shooter to be even more specific? And I'm going to explain why that theory has circulated a bit online. Now, to be clear, this is a rapidly evolving story. So we are trying to catch up as quickly as we can as this investigation unfolds. And, of course, this investigation is being led by the FBI currently. So this past Saturday, authorities say crooks opened fire during a pro-Trump rally in Butler, Pennsylvania,

ended up wounding the former president, as well as critically injuring two other individuals, 57-year-old David Dutch and 74-year-old James Copenhaver. But as we know, this also resulted in the death of 50-year-old Corey Compertour, a firefighter, a married father of two who was apparently trying to protect his family from the gunfire when he was killed. Crooks was reportedly positioned on a roof of a nearby building outside of the event's security's perimeter, about 130 to 150 yards away from Donald Trump's podium, began firing an AR-15-style rifle only minutes into the former president's speech. she was instantly neutralized by a Secret Service counter-sniper team, although, as we will talk about in a minute, it apparently was not the team that has been photographed, that was in photographs and circulated online, but a different team. We'll talk about that. And authorities reportedly discovered a remote detonator on Crooks' body as well as remote-controlled explosives, bulletproof

vest, fully loaded magazines in his car, which was parked nearby. Investigators also found another vest, explosive materials, and a 3D printer at his home in Bethel Park 50 miles away where he apparently lived with his parents. And according to CNN, a joint FBI and Department of Homeland Security Bulletin reveals that Crooks had been receiving multiple packages in the months leading up to the shooting, including those marked as possibly containing hazardous materials. And as we previously reported on cyber, authorities haven't been able to identify a precise motive for this attack, even though the FBI is combing, through the shooter's online history, cell phones, computer searches, and so forth.

Although there's also reporting that Crooks had searched online for the date, not only of the Trump rally in Butler, Pennsylvania, but also the date of the Democratic National Convention. And according to CNN, Crooks had pictures of both President Biden and Trump on his phone. So it makes you wonder what exactly, again, was his apparent motive or what were his targets? It's not entirely clear. Now, CNN is also reporting, that crooks had visited a shooting range the day before the rally apparently he and his father were members of the clarton sportsman's club then he goes to a home depot where he purchases a ladder then goes to a local gun store in bethel park to buy 50 rounds of ammunition so this is what the

allegations are right now this is what the reporting is right now so investigators believe in all of this that crooks acted alone however how do we know he acted alone and let's also talk about this idea the second shooter, because we're going to try to do our best here to dispel fact from fiction. And for that, let me bring in once again, Chad Ayers, former sheriff's deputy, SWAT member, founder of Proactive Response Group. Thank you so much for coming on, Chad. We were first on a few days ago when this first happened, the first day, the Monday after this. Now I have you back. We knew more information. And I think it's important to dispel any kind of misinformation out there or in the alternative to suggest there might be something here.

So I ask you, based on everything we know currently at this time, at the time of this recording, do you believe Crooks acted alone? Well, Jesse, first of all, thanks for having me back. I do. Absolutely. Crooks acted alone. And I know we're going to dive into this. Obviously, I think it's important that our viewers, your viewers understand the power of the Internet, the power of social media. You know, that's why I've been saying, you know, I said on Monday, we really need to wait until the, you know,

this investigation is fully completed to start gauging some of this stuff. But unfortunately, because of the times that we live in, social media, people are going to start making up stuff. There's conspiracy theorists out here. I get it. Look, as an outsider looking in without the background I have, I would have some questions about some of the stuff that's being reported. And it's very easy to go down that road.

But I just encourage the American people to take a step back, let this investigation fall out, and wait until we start getting facts. keyword there. Hey everybody. By the way, thank you so much for coming to us as we continue to follow the latest developments in the Trump shooting. And one of the reasons we're able to do this is because of the incredible support we get from our sponsor. Upside. So Upside is a free app that gets a cashback on daily essentials like gas, groceries, dining. So when I pump my gas and yes, I do it myself, I don't have a valet over here. When I do, I could use the upside app. And I mean, why not? Why not get cash back when you fill up your tank? Right. And yes, this is actual real

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and you'll get an extra 25 cents back on every gallon on your first tank of gas. That's promo code sidebar for an extra 25 cents back on your first gallon of gas. Well, let me explain why people believe this. It's interesting because it's not coming totally out of left field, and I'll explain. Because, by the way, before we can get into that, when the FBI says that they believe crooks acted alone, and more specifically, when the Pittsburgh Special Agent in charge, Kevin Roject, says Crooks acted alone, and that there are currently no public safety concerns, I know that can always change. change in an investigation, right? But to make a statement like that, that means something, right?

To say, because if they weren't sure reacted alone, they wouldn't make a statement like that, right? If the Bureau is going to step out and make a statement like that, you damn well better be sure that you've got your facts straight. It is especially on something as serious as an attempt of assassination on, you know, a presidential candidate and a former president. You're damn well, better be sure you have your facts straight. So correct. I think that with the special agent in charge coming out and staying that, we can rest assured that they feel confident that's a single shooter. Okay. So now with this in mind, let me tell you why there has been talk about a second shooter. According to CNN, Catalin Rigoros, the director of the National Center for Media Forensics

at the University of Colorado in Denver, and Cole Whitecotton, senior professional research associate at that same institution. They analyzed audio of the shooting. And apparently they concluded that the first three shots were consistent with alleged weapon A. The next five shots were consistent with alleged weapon B. And the final, quote, acoustic impulse was emitted by a possible weapon C. And the audio also confirms that the shooter was on a rooftop that they say 393 to 492 feet away. Now, some have said, is that weapon C from another shooter? Or was it another Secret Service sniper? And I'm curious your thoughts because, according to the Washington Post, two audio experts,

Rob Mayer of Montana State University and Stephen Beck of Beck Audio Forensics, they counted a total of 10 gunshots. So the first eight shots had similar acoustic characteristics. They were fired within six seconds. Then there's a ninth shot from apparent different area. 16 seconds later, there's a 10th shot, and the last two, they say, had different audio characteristics from the first eight. But they also say that this audio in and of itself can't tell you exactly where the shots

came from. And, Chad, I know I'm giving you a lot of buildup here, but I just want to couple this with one more thing, that as Fox News has reported, there is that photo of the pair of the U.S. Secret Service counter snipers that we all believed were the ones who neutralized the gunmen, But apparently there were four counter-sniper teams that day, and there was another team that neutralized the shooter. And apparently a member of local law enforcement had also engaged the shooter, so seeming to mean that this local marksman fired a shot. And the Butler County DA says that this person has been placed on routine leave, which is standard for all police-involved shootings. But I gave you that build-up to say, we have these audio characteristics.

Now we're learning a little bit more about the sequence of shots. Again, after laying that out, do you believe that leads to the idea that there was a second shooter or this is more people responding to the shooter itself? Yeah, I can understand where people are coming from on this, but obviously the audio acoustics, it can do strange things. We've all been in baseball stadiums when fireworks go off or, you know, obviously I've been involved in deadly force encounters and shootings multiple times in my career. The echo, the ricochet. Now keep in mind a lot of what we're going to do. we are hearing as outsiders, there's microphones involved all over that stage. So we're hearing different delays and things like that. As I have watched this video, I mean, Jesse, it seems like a thousand times by now.

Yes, I feel like it's consistent with the initial fire from the shooter, taking his rounds, followed by the counter-sniper team's rifles. And then likely that last one they are hearing is the locals counter-sniper, taking that shot. The DA's reported that gentleman's been placed on leave. Also, the sound aspect, right? You might have a mixture of these counter-sniper guys who have suppressors on their rifles, which I would assume many of them do. Your local counter-sniper may not have had a suppressor on his rifle. So you're going to get different audios through that feed. But again, at the end of the day, I am confident we are still working with one shooter and multiple law enforcement.

shooters. And let's amplify this a little bit. If he had been collaborating with somebody else, you would imagine there would be some sort of communications. And again, I wonder how much is being shared with the public. But I will tell you, right at the time of this recording, based on reporting, there's no manifesto, there's no note, there's no writings, there's no social media posts that outline a motive. But other than that, that would suggest why crooks did this. And I would imagine there would be more communications with other people. And I will tell you that they say that the shooter had a second phone. So he had two phones, one apparently on his body, and then a second phone at the house that had 27 contacts in it. So I imagine the FBI is going to be seeing who those

people are. But at this point, if he had been planning this with somebody else, A, would we have known about those communications? Shouldn't they be there? And B, would the FBI, tell us at this point? No, I don't think at this point. If there is some type of communication where he was working, not saying that there's a second shooter, but someone may be influencing him, I think part of the investigation would be not to reveal that at this time until they have had the chance to fully vet all these contacts in the phone, going through social media messages, text messages, emails.

Look, the Bureau does this on a daily basis on counterterrorism things and counterterrorism cases. But the 27 contacts then his phone, do you find it strange that this guy had apparently two separate phones? Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't say strange. Someone that has gotten to the point where they've decided that they're going to assassinate the former president. They're probably going to try anything and everything to cover their steps. Maybe what he's doing is he knows how this ends and he doesn't want, you know, his family involved, you know, who knows who's paying his phone bill. But again, again, probably buying a drop phone, a prepaid phone. He's done his research. It's obvious he's

done his research because with the explosives involved and things like this, this, like I said earlier, this guy didn't just wake up yesterday and decide he's going to commit this attack. He's planned this out. Well, okay, let me amplify this a little bit more because, again, trying to understand if he acted alone. I don't know if this is a ridiculous point to make, But I am curious about it. I am sure people are wondering, how could he make that shot? Because do you have to be a really good shot? And to be clear, let's be clear, right?

You know, there's been reporting online that former President Donald Trump was within centimeters of being killed. And, you know, there was reporting that a parent classmate of Crooks told media that Crooks never made the school's rifle team because how bad of a shot he was. Now, obviously, he could have improved, but how tough is that shot to make from that distance? Because, again, someone could say he might have needed, he might have had help. So walk us through from that distance, again, about 130, 150 yards away to make that shot from an elevated surface at Donald Trump. What do you make of that?

He's proned out. He's laying out. He's stabilized that rifle. I could take my five-year-old nephew. And in about 20 minutes, I could lay him behind that rifle. rifle, steady it, tell him to put it on this target, pull the trigger, and it's going to go there. It is not a tough shot whatsoever, especially with a 5-5-6 caliber assault rifle.

Very easy. I know we mentioned it Monday. I am looking forward to knowing what type of scope he had. Was it a magnified type of scope? Was it a red dot? What was that? Not that it changes a lot, but it does change a little bit. But at the end of the day, whether it's a good shot or not, the only reason, the only reason

and former president trump is alive today is because he turned his head period okay so so that that's a good point again just trying to understand if he had help if he could have done this on his own the next part about is the explosives um would he need help putting that together how could he put that together on his own i say that but it is being reported that at the time of crook's death he was wearing a t-shirt from demolition ranch which is a apparently a youtube channel has 11 million subscribers. It seemingly features videos of guns and explosives devices. So could he have found out from online how to use a remote detonator, how to make explosives? Is it that easy? And I'll just before you answer that, let me just make sure I clear this out. The founder of Demolition Ranch,

Matt Carricker, released a statement saying they were shocked, they were confused to find out this happened that no matter what side you're on politically, none of us want violence. This channel was never meant to incite violence or hate. Now, with that in mind, is it possible that someone in Crook's position could figure out how to create what has, I think, been labeled rudimentary explosive devices and detonators? Absolutely. I mean, come on, it's the internet. I can teach someone how to make meth and cook meth in their garage in the matter of 10 minutes. You can find anything on the internet. Same thing. There's websites out here. You know, I remember being a middle school and a neighbor of mine showed me, this is back in the old America online days where

you had to load the CD on and you could get on there and find how to make tennis ball bombs. Basically, you know, back in the day, kids being silly, you know, not to this extreme, but absolutely. Now, granted, there's precursors that obviously were either maybe sent to his house or he went and picked up on. A lot of precursors for explosive device are regulated. Sure, there are times where farmers and people like that have to go and there's specific reasons why they would need certain materials. But I do feel like the Bureau does a good job, the FBI, ATF. Some of these federal agencies do a good job of tracking that and it would flag. But obviously there's black market sites and other things like that where they could, you know,

purchase this equipment from making an explosives, getting the material to make an explosive's not very difficult. And then like I said, in a matter of about five to 10 minutes, you and I could be on the internet and come up with something pretty quickly. Again, it's just so strange, right? because you have a 20-year-old, no criminal history, no indication of doing this in the past. They're trying to scour through his past to understand where this might have come from. But again, it becomes a question

of how he was able to infiltrate a rally like this, expose vulnerabilities in the system. And we're actually going to do a whole separate sidebar on the Secret Service investigation. But he has these materials. He goes there. There's even video circulating of him looking at the rules.

rooftops or seemingly it's him looking at the rooftops before the shooting. But he had purchased a ladder in advance. He purchased the ammunition in advance. He had explosives in a car. He seemed to have a plan. There is reporting also, I can't verify it at this time, whether or not he had visited that site of the Butler rally multiple times in the past. But again, it becomes a question, is it possible that someone like him would be able to

do this by himself to find to do this? Again, as I said, expose the vulnerabilities, commit. this act. It's just, I think that's why people are wondering, was he acting alone? Well, I mean, we say this. Keep in mind, outside that security perimeter, Jesse, I mean, if I am, you know, let's say, 15, 200 yards out, I'm outside the magnetometers, I'm outside that security bubble. I technically, you know, depending on the state law, I could be walking around with a rifle out there and it's not illegal, right? If I have a firearm on my hip outside that security perimeter, it's not illegal. So now, am I going to confront that person? 100%,

but it's not illegal. Think about a lot of these mass shootings or school shootings, right? You've got 15, 16, 17, 18-year-olds that carry out the most heinous crimes ever. These crimes 100% can be committed by a solo person without any help at all. Now, again, that's why I You know, we are all calling and we want a thorough investigation. Honestly, I hope the FBI is throwing every resource they have at this. And I also hope the United States Secret Service is throwing every resource at looking at the failures that day. I think that's a really, really good point about that, but also a great point about the school shooters, too, because, you know, they commit mass acts of violence that are almost tactical and almost, you know, you can't believe that a teenager would do this.

where they haven't done something like this in the past. And unfortunately, they commit some of the most egregious, heinous, violent acts that we have ever seen in American history. And right now, this attempted shooting, a former President Donald Trump, a shooting that resulted in the death of a hero, of a guy, a family man who was trying to protect his family, critically injuring to other people. It goes down as one of the worst acts of violence on a national stage we've seen. So I'm glad you came on, Chad.

I'm glad you broke this down. I think it's important to, you know, kind of dispel some misinformation about there and some rumors. So again, I think we could, Chad's confident that he acted alone. We've broken down some of the different aspects of it. And I think that makes sense. I think it makes sense moving forward about what exactly happened here. But Chad Ayers, thank you so much. Really appreciate you taking the time, sir. Great to be with you, Jesse. All right, everybody. That's all we have for you right now here on Sidebar. Thank you so much for joining us. And as always, please subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jesse Weber.

I'll speak to you next time.