Law&Crime Sidebar - ‘Doomsday Cult’ Prophet: 5 Most Damning Pieces of Evidence Against Chad Daybell

Episode Date: May 13, 2024

Chad Daybell is on trial for allegedly killing two children and his own wife in order to be with his new lover, Lori Vallow. Vallow has since been convicted for her participation in the deaths of her own kids, Tylee and JJ. Now prosecutors are going after Chad, who they believe killed the children and buried them on his Idaho property. Law&Crime’s Jesse Weber breaks down the most incriminating evidence against Daybell with professor of law Jules Epstein.PLEASE SUPPORT THE SHOW: Get 50% off of confidential background reports at https://www.truthfinder.com/lcsidebarHOST:Jesse Weber: https://twitter.com/jessecordweberLAW&CRIME SIDEBAR PRODUCTION:YouTube Management - Bobby SzokeVideo Editing - Michael DeiningerScript Writing & Producing - Savannah WilliamsonGuest Booking - Alyssa Fisher & Diane KayeSocial Media Management - Vanessa BeinSTAY UP-TO-DATE WITH THE LAW&CRIME NETWORK:Watch Law&Crime Network on YouTubeTV: https://bit.ly/3td2e3yWhere To Watch Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3akxLK5Sign Up For Law&Crime's Daily Newsletter: https://bit.ly/LawandCrimeNewsletterRead Fascinating Articles From Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3td2IqoLAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandcrime/Twitter: https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetworkFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawandcrimeTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lawandcrimenetworkTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lawandcrimeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wonderly Plus subscribers can binge all episodes of this Law and Crimes series ad-free right now. Join Wonderly Plus in the Wondery app Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Agent Nate Russo returns in Oracle 3, Murder at the Grandview, the latest installment of the gripping Audible Original series. When a reunion at an abandoned island hotel turns deadly, Russo must untangle accident from murder. But beware, something sinister lurks in the grand. View Shadows. Joshua Jackson delivers a bone-chilling performance in this supernatural thriller

that will keep you on the edge of your seat. Don't let your fears take hold of you as you dive into this addictive series. Love thrillers with a paranormal twist? The entire Oracle trilogy is available on Audible. Listen now on Audible. I asked if she had children and then Chad said that she had recently had a daughter that had passed. And I said, oh, I'm sorry. Did Lori say anything to correct that or change it? No. There have been some damaging pieces of evidence against Chad Daybell and his murder trial out of Idaho. We're going to analyze both sides of some of arguably the most incriminating evidence with Professor of Law, Jules Epstein.

Welcome to Sidebar, presented by Law and Crime. I'm Jesse Weber. So we have been diving into some of the more dark, disturbing moments in the Chad Daybell tribe. out of Idaho, but now we're going to do something different. We're actually going to focus on some of the most damaging pieces of evidence against the suspected murderer. This, of course, is the trial out of Idaho where Daybell, a religious doomsday author, is charged with the murders of three people. His wife tabbing Daybell, 49 years old, died in October 2019 in the family home. It was at first believed and relayed by Chad that she died of natural causes, but as you're about to see, that

may not be so true. Then we have seven-year-old Joshua J.J. Valo and 16-year-old Tyley Ryan, the children of Daybell's current wife and co-defendant, Lori Valo Daybel. The kids' bodies were found on Chad's property in June 2020, nine months after they disappeared. Lorry already convicted, sentenced to life in prison for her role in these killings. Alex Cox, Lori's brother, who we're about to talk about, is dead, but he died of an apparent blood clot. But it is believed he was an active participant in these events as well, possibly the physical killer, the one who actually carried out the killing, the assassin, if you will, maybe the one who actually buried the kids.

Now, prosecutors argue that Chad and Lori killed these people in their lives to not only be free and live happily ever after together, but also to reap the financial benefits of social security insurance payments. And unlike Lori Valadebel's trial, Chad faces the death penalty if he's convicted. After all, he's facing first-degree murder and conspiracy to commit murder charges, amongst others as well. Now, to talk the most damaging pieces of evidence so far in this trial, let me bring on evidence expert, Jules Epstein, Edward D. Allbound, Professor of Law and Director of Advocacy at Temple University Beasley School of Law. Professor, good to see you. Thanks so much for coming on.

Thanks for having me and good to be here. So I want to get right into it. I would say when we talk about the most damaging pieces of evidence, number one for me, me is the location of the kids' bodies. So out of all places, these children are found on Chad Daybell's property. Prosecutors say his backyard. The kids decomposed bodies found June 9th, 2020, as I said, almost nine months after they first went missing. J.J. wrapped up with duct tape. Tiley's body burned. J.J. found near a pond. Tiley found near a fire pit. That in of itself, I think, is really damaging. What's your take on it?

So all of these pieces of proof are, quote, really damaging, unquote. The question is, what can a defense lawyer do with them? There may come a point where all of these really damaging things just get piled too high for somebody to say, oh, my goodness, there are a coincidence. But if you take them in isolation and depending on the size of his property and how well it was camouflage after the bodies were buried. His defense is simple. The brother did this while I wasn't there.

And my understanding for my limited review of the case is that there is some cell phone or GPS technology proof that the brother was around the homestead that day. Okay. Let's explore that a little bit. So you're right. Chad Daybell's attorney, John Pryor, in his opening statement, said, you know, the prosecution says this is a backyard. It's really like a pasture, maybe trying to say, how should he know really what's buried? But here's the part.

And I'm going to throw this all at you and tell me what you think. So first, the burning aspect is particularly important because Chad was allegedly looking up, you know, searching, Google's internet searching, wind directions at the time. So that goes to the idea that Chad knew and was a part of the killing and disposal of the kids remains. It's very weird he's looking this up. You couple that with this bizarre text that he sends Tammy on September 9th, the day we believe Tiley was killed and buried. September 8th was the last day she was photographed alive in Yellowstone. And he texts Tammy that he was burning limb debris in the yard that he saw a raccoon and had to kill and bury it in the family pet cemetery. Always thought that to be a way that Chad was trying to cover up the actual burning and burial of Tiley's body.

and you talked about cell phone data. So, this FBI agent testified under oath that on September 9th, Alex Cox's phone was just south of Daybell's home at around 9.15 a.m. Between 915 and 1057, the phone was in a spot very similar to where Tiley's body was found. So again, all about Alex Cox. 9.30, though, Chad's phone was at a place, was at his place. This is, again, based on his cell phone data. So he's at the home when this is going on.

Around 11.45 a.m., Cox's phone moves away from Chad's property, and that is when Chad, who allegedly was near his home, calls Lori. Now, with JJ, the FBI agent testified that on September 22nd, 2019, that's when we believe J.J. was last seen alive. Chad sends multiple texts to Lori at almost 4 a.m. on September 23rd, at 9.25 a.m. he calls Alex Cox, who then travels to Chad's property, was there from 9.55 to 10, 12 a.m. And then the agent said to track those locations close to where JJ's body was found and that Chad was at his property between 9.30 and 1027 a.m. So the digital footprint being left by Chad would suggest to me, Professor, that also is pretty bad in terms of that he knew about the burial. Sure. Look, you have to consider what we'll call the realm.

of possibilities, right? Is it possible, A, that he's at home and oblivious to what's going on? Yeah, yeah, go out in the back pasture, do your thing. I'm sure that's happened to all of us. I'm not saying that's what happened here. But again, it's the accumulation of all these facts. Plus, again, we're not, if this were only, the only fact, it would be easier to make arguments that it's a bad circumstance, but the government's asking you to guess. Right. Especially if, if I recall correctly, that this defendant's DNA is nowhere on those two bodies. Great point. So, so the defense highlighted that fingerprints on the plastic that was wrapped around JJ was Alex Cox's forensic material.

The hair that was found was Lori Valo-Dabelle. There's no hair. There's no DNA evidence of Chad that we know of that was disposed on the bodies. Now, again, if I'm the prosecutor, I can live with that. Sure, because I'm the boss. Hey, you do this. You do that. And I'll be chatting with the deities or whoever it is I claim to be in touch with.

Right. All I'm saying is the defense has to get one juror and this whole. thing is hung the defense has to leave seeds of reasonable doubt and he's acquitted i'm not suggesting either of those is likely but every time there is a bad piece of evidence and these are really bad the defense response appropriately is well gee if he did it why isn't the DNA there if he did it right how do you explain this every time we cover the day bell case, it just reminds me that you have to be careful about who you let into your life, who you surround yourself with, who you listen to. It's so important. And by the way, it can be a little

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just want to reconnect with people, long lost friends, family members you haven't spoken to in a while. you can use TruthFinder to help track down these people's information. It is a great tool. And here's the kicker. Right now, you can get 50% off of your first month of confidential background reports. Just go to truthfinder.com slash LC sidebar. This is the second piece of what I think is damaging testimony. The bizarre behavior of Chad Daybell when this search was happening on his property for the bodies.

So let's say he had no idea that the bodies were there, that it was all Alex Cox. I want to play a few things for you. So on the day, the kids' decomposed bodies were found in Chad's yard. Chad and Lori talk on the phone. She was locked in jail at the time on charges of not producing your kids. At the time, all we knew was that they were missing. She hadn't been charged with murder yet. But listen to this exchange as police are searching Chad's property.

Hi, babe. Hello. Are you okay? No, they're searching the property. The house right now? Yeah. Yeah. Are they seizing stuff again?

They're searching. There's a search warrant. So the moment I just did Emma's like the chibs. Okay. And we'll see what transpires. Okay. I don't. What do we to do?

Pray. What? What do you want me? Yeah, pray. Pray. Pray. um yeah okay what can i do for you i'm feeling pretty calm i would call marco lady i love you so much okay i love you should i try to call you later um i don't know i i don't know uh he can try

Yeah, I'll answer if I can. Okay, so, Professor, you know, for me, where's the, what are they searching for? What is going on? That lack of surprise. And that, before we even get into it, I want to play you one more thing. So this is when Chad is detained in a police cruiser. He hasn't been charged yet. And he allegedly keeps looking to where the kids' bodies would ultimately be found, knows that they're looking for something on his property.

And he has this conversation with his daughter, Emma, and they start talking about next steps. and finances, and he says a few weird things. We're okay, Dad. We're okay. You raised us, but we're independent with your wallet. Glad you got that. Right, get that money out of there. Probably just put it in your own personal account.

I don't have the cash, wait. Yeah, I talked to Lori for like two minutes. So she's aware they were searching. Was she surprised? She seems bothered or disturbed. I mean, yeah. But. So yeah, I'll be green.

I don't know what they told you because I asked Lieutenant Bull, where did you find the human remains? That's what they told me. Because they found human remains. And I said, well, there are several dogs that have been. very there and he said, respectfully, I can tell the difference of human beings. And I asked, where was it? And he said, over by the pond under that tree, that it was in the ground, he had boards over it.

But that, that didn't, face and I walked all over there. Yeah. And I can see in your face that surprised here. Because they asked, do you want to know what he's charged for? And then they went, well, actually, we don't have it. They said, we don't want to tell you something wrong. And so he told me that the, what they're looking at is that they found one body with the probable cause there's likely to. So I asked, are you going to search the property forever until it's found?

And he said, well, no, but we're going to look. and he said, because I said, what about, this is a home for my siblings, and there's a baby, and he said, if you're not able to get back in tonight, we'll hook them up to the hotel. He said, you're not in trouble. I think they'll let them back. There's nothing in the house. It sounds like you're not going to be out. Right.

I've had a lot of success with mom's stuff to say, will you help me? My mom died, I'm pretty sure. Will you help me? My dad and jail. It should be paid through July 1st. Okay. And I think the car is paid through July 15th. So you shouldn't have any bills to worry about.

Yeah, I'm not coming back. So all that stuff that's in the baby room is Lori's in mine. Okay, so that's a couple of his immediate reactions as the police are searching the property. I find that lack of surprise and some of the kind of weird comments, like he knows nothing's in the house, but here's what we do about your finances, I'm not coming back. Is that seemed like an innocent person? Okay. So if I knew how to tell the difference between an innocent person and a not innocent person, I could retire tomorrow. Sure.

And let's be clear. the way you portrayed it, the way those recordings sound, you're scratching your head and saying what's going on in this guy's head, except he knows there's a problem. He knows he's going in with the police. Now, do me a favor, take a step back. Can we agree this is not the guy you would likely have over to dinner? Because to put it politely, his worldview on affect are not the most normal. And if that's That's right. And I'm defending it. I'm going to say to the jury, guess what? Every one of you has an aunt so-and-so or an uncle so-and-so whose weird as could be. That doesn't make him a killer. And that is kind of wrapped up into the next point I want to get into the religion, right?

These religiously, these religious warped extreme beliefs, prosecutor suggesting it was almost used as a justification to kill those in their way. He was a doomsday author. Chad, Lori, they believed in light and dark possession. I have to rid the body of dark spirits. And interestingly, the couple through witness testimony, allegedly believed the kids and Charles Vallow, Lori's deceased husband who was killed by Alex Cox. She's charged with his murder out in Arizona. He was shot to death. The couple viewed all these people as possessed by demons or need to be free and suspiciously, they all die. Now, Pryor's attorney said, look, these teachings, they don't really emanate from Chad. They're consistent with LDS.

But here's where I think it takes a very interesting, or I should say, incriminating term. So this is Zulema Pestanis. This is Lori's former sister-in-law. She'd been married to Alex Cox. Let's play this. And at the time you were there in August, were J.J. and Tiley there? Yes.

Do you recall anyone talking about J.J. dying young or dying soon? Yeah, during this meeting, Chad said that, um, Jay J.J. was going to die young, that he was probably going to die soon, and that he was going to come right back to Earth as Colby's son. And who is Colby? Lori's son. So did Chad and Lori say they'd both been exalted before? Yes.

Was there any indication that Tammy made? may die. Chad said that Tammy was going to be, was going to die early and that he, he had related before that he had a portal in his house where he would get information or communication from the spirit world where he would get instructions and information and knowledge and that through this portal he was getting information such as that Tammy was going to die soon. Had you ever heard of portals in the way Chad was talking about him? No.

So, Professor, one that the beliefs were emanating from Chad, they're extreme, and he's predicting people's deaths, and they actually die. My answer is simple. Again, it's terribly incriminating unless you can accept two things. A, that's somebody's worldview. I sincerely held, if, in my personal view, incredibly bizarre belief. And that's exactly why, if I were his lawyer, I'd say, this is the guy's worldview. Of course he looks guilty.

Other people did what he was talking about. whether symbolically or actually, it doesn't make him the doer. And again, please, I'm not saying what I believe or don't believe. I'm just saying when you're stuck with some proof like that. Yeah. And to be clear, we gave you the task of trying to defend Chad Daybell in this. So I get it. We were presenting the most incriminating piece of evidence and you giving an alternative perspective.

And look, I mean, look, prior, his attorney also says that throughout all this, If they ever talked about actually killing people, we're just trying to put two and two together. Talking about the deaths, though, let me move on to another piece of incriminating evidence. I want to talk about the death of Tammy Daybell, Chad's wife, charged with her murder. So she dies October 19, 2019, in her home with Chad. This is only days after someone allegedly tried to shoot her, by the way. It's believed that that person was Alex Cox. Anyway, so she dies in what is originally thought to be in her sleep, natural causes.

Chad reported to the coroner that she had seizure-like symptoms. Chad didn't want the autopsy performed, which was very strange. Well, when the kids go missing and police start looking into the couple, they exhumed Tammy's body and what do they find? Here is Utah Medical Examiner Dr. Erica Christensen had this to say about how Tammy's death was really anything from natural. What did you determine the cause of death to be? We ruled her cause of death to be asphyxia. What did you determine her manner of death to be? We determined her manner of death to be homicide.

We also didn't find any natural disease that would explain her death. Her heart was completely normal. Her lungs were normal except for some fluid buildup in them. Her liver, kidneys, all of her organs were normal. So we did not identify an anatomic or pathologic explanation for her death. During Tammy's autopsy, did you find any physical signs of seizure activity? We did not. Okay. So you heard the findings there that it's not. natural, that it was asphyxiation? Your take? There are only two options. Sure, but somebody else did it or the medical examiner is wrong. There you go. Believe it or not, medical examiners can be wrong and two medical examiners can look at the same body and come to different conclusions. Or someone could say her body was too decomposed to fairly make that determination. I'm not saying it's any of those. But if I were the lawyer, I would be talking to that medical examiner and others and saying, what are the options here? And look, on Cross, you know, his attorney brought

up that the bruises on her body, you know, is it really consistent that she was held down. Could it have been from something else? A toxic drug cocktail. She had all these different infirmities. He's going to be calling his own forensic pathologist to say that there's no indication either homicide. We don't know exactly. We can't determine the cause of death. So I hear you on that one. And then the final point I wanted to get to, but I think is the most incriminating is for assuming for a moment he didn't kill Tammy or wasn't involved in her death. I think one of the most damaging pieces of evidence is that he and Lori get married in Hawaii

two weeks after her death. Again, I'm going to play this bit from Alice Gilbert. This is Tammy Daybell's friend. Listen to her interaction with Chad after Tammy died. So just shortly after Tammy's passing. Yes. And Chad indicated to you, he didn't want you to come to his place, but he'd come to yours. Yeah.

He said, oh, I'll come over to your place. place. So we said, okay. Did you ever end up seeing where Chad was living in Rexburg? No. And did he, in fact, end up coming to your place? He did. And did you end up having a conversation with him at that time? Yes. He sat at our kitchen table and I had made cookies and thought that we know we would make it nice. And he said that he found the woman he was going to marry. And we were absolutely stunned. Tammy dies.

He meets the love of his life and he gets married to her two weeks later. It seems awfully convenient for somebody who had nothing to be involved with with Tammy's dad. Sure. You hit me in the face with powerful incriminating evidence, both in isolation. and cumulatively, how many people do you know, and I'm asking you this, have had whirlwind romances. How many of you, how many people do you know have done stupid stuff we caught on the rebound, right?

After their significant other dies mysteriously? My, my, okay. Again, if everyone's behavior conform to your expectations and mine, I, I, I, I'm 71 years old. I'm shocked that not everyone follows my rules, okay? I hear you. I hear you. At the end of the day, and let me just try and do this as a sort of wrap-up,

you've got a lot of pieces of evidence that to the average person says only a guilty person would do all that. And then you have, if you take each in isolation, you say, you know, maybe somebody not guilty would do that. I just want to add here that the defense you're seeing is dictated by the defendant. If I were the lawyer, I might say you're better off with a mental health defense, insanity. I might say we want to soften the jury up to avoid the death penalty. But if the client says, no, I'm not guilty. And I'm not letting you put on any of those. compromise approaches, the lawyer's hands are ethically tied.

Right. And then they're left with making the best of a bad deal. And there's no insanity defense in Idaho, and it seems like he wants to say he's found not guilty. So there's interesting arguments being put forward by John Pryor. But again, this is what we presented as the, what I believe is the top five most damaging pieces of evidence, arguably the most damaging. Professor Jules Epstein, thanks so much for coming on.

Appreciate it. Thanks for all the great coverage you do. to you soon. All right, everybody, that is all we have for you right now here on Sidebar. Thank you so much for joining us. As always, please subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, wherever you get your podcast. I'm Jesse Weber. Speak to you next time. Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.