Law&Crime Sidebar - ‘Doomsday Cult’ Prophet: More Disturbing Evidence from Triple Murder Trial

Episode Date: May 11, 2024

Chad Daybell, a man who said he could discern whether people’s spirits were “light or dark,” is accused of killing his first wife, as well as his second wife’s children. The bodies of Tylee Ryan, 16, and JJ Vallow, 7, were found on Daybell’s property in Idaho. Daybell’s new wife, Lori Vallow, was convicted in connection with the murders last year. Law&Crime’s Jesse Weber analyzes the latest disturbing evidence and testimony presented at trial.PLEASE SUPPORT THE SHOW: If you’re ever injured in an accident, you can check out Morgan & Morgan. You can submit a claim in 8 clicks or less without having to leave your couch. To start your claim, visit: https://www.forthepeople.com/LCSidebarHOST:Jesse Weber: https://twitter.com/jessecordweberLAW&CRIME SIDEBAR PRODUCTION:YouTube Management - Bobby SzokeVideo Editing - Michael DeiningerScript Writing & Producing - Savannah WilliamsonGuest Booking - Alyssa Fisher & Diane KayeSocial Media Management - Vanessa BeinSTAY UP-TO-DATE WITH THE LAW&CRIME NETWORK:Watch Law&Crime Network on YouTubeTV: https://bit.ly/3td2e3yWhere To Watch Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3akxLK5Sign Up For Law&Crime's Daily Newsletter: https://bit.ly/LawandCrimeNewsletterRead Fascinating Articles From Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3td2IqoLAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandcrime/Twitter: https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetworkFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawandcrimeTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lawandcrimenetworkTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lawandcrimeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can binge all episodes of this Law and Crimes series ad-free right now. Join Wondry Plus in the Wondery app Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Agent Nate Russo returns in Oracle 3, Murder at the Grandview, the latest installment of the gripping Audible Original series. When a reunion at an abandoned island hotel turns deadly, Russo must untangle accident from murder. But beware, something sinister lurks in the grand. View Shadows. Joshua Jackson delivers a bone-chilling performance in this supernatural thriller

that will keep you on the edge of your seat. Don't let your fears take hold of you as you dive into this addictive series. Love thrillers with a paranormal twist? The entire Oracle trilogy is available on Audible. Listen now on Audible. And who was it that could discern light and dark if someone was light and dark? Chad. Did Alex ever say anything to you about what he would want done if he became a zombie? He told me, Sue am I, if I ever turned into a zombie, just shoot me in the face. From zombies to an autopsy to a chilling prediction of death that turned out to be true, we are breaking down the next batch of disturbing moments in Chad Daybell's murder trial.

This is part two. Welcome to Sidebar, presented by Law and Crime. I'm Jesse Weber. Unfortunately, the disturbing moment. Moments did not end with our last recap in the Chad Daybell murder trial. No, no, no, no, no, no. There are many, many more. This, of course, is the trial out of Idaho where Daybell, a religious doomsday themed author, is charged with the murders of three people. His wife Tammy Daybell, 49 years old, died in October of 2019 in the family home. It was first believed and relayed by Chad that she died of natural causes, but as you're about to see in a little bit, that may not be so. true. And then we have 7-year-old Joshua J.J. Valo and 16-year-old Tiley

Ryan, the children of Daybell's current wife and co-defendant Lori Valo-debel. These kids' bodies were found on Chad's property in June of 2029 months after they disappeared. Lori already convicted, sentenced to life in prison

for her role in these killings. Alex Cox, Lori's brother who we talk about a lot in this saga, who are about to talk about a lot, he's dead, died of an apparent blood clot, but it is believed that he was an active participant in these events as well, even perhaps the one who physically killed and buried these kids. Prosecutors argue that Chad and Lori killed these people in their lives to not only be free to live happily ever after together, but also to reap the financial benefits of social

security and insurance payments. And unlike Lori's trial, Chad faces the death penalty. if he's convicted. After all, he's facing first-degree murder and conspiracy to commit murder charges amongst others as well. Now, let's talk disturbing, but let me also say very important moments in this trial, important moments, important pieces of evidence in this case from the last time that we did an update. And there's a lot. And honestly, talking disturbing, how could I not start with Zulema Pestanis' testimony? Now, for anyone who followed Lori Valo-Dave-Bel trial or have followed this saga, you know who she is. She was married to Lori's brother, Alex Cox, and she talked about how she connected with

Lori and Chad. Met Chad at a conference in 2018, saw that the pair were hanging out. Lori was flirtatious with Chad, him giggling, even though both of them were married, Chad to Tammy Daybell. Lori to a man named Charles Valo, we will get to him in a second. But a big theme of this case is that there are these religious beliefs that maybe were used as a justification to kill. Kill those in the couple's way, light spirits versus dark spirits, possession, zombies. Here's Zulema talking a little bit more about this.

They started teaching that a person could become, let me back up, when a person passes away that there was a small time where the body is still a viable body, and it could be occupied by a dark spirit or a demon, and that because the body no longer has had the spirit that was originally there, but it was being occupied by a demon, that then that spirit could not moved to the spirit world, that it would go into a limbo. And at that lunch at Firebirds with Melanie Gibb and Lori, did you learn anything about Charles? Yes, this was the first time that Lori talked about someone being possessed. by a dark spirit or a demon this first time that I heard the idea of someone passing away

and having this small window of time where a dark spirit or a demon could come into the body and take over the body. And she said that that's what had happened to Charles and that Charles was now possessed by a dark spirit or demon named Ned. Had you heard the term possession before? Yeah, I had read about it in the scriptures before. Had you heard it talked about in the way Lori was describing it? No, not at all.

And do you know where Lori got that information? That information came from Chad. Few things here. First of all, the defense has been trying to create the narrative that these beliefs, yes, they may be odd to you and me, but they're actually consistent with LDS. There's not something nefarious here, not something that was concocted by Lori and Chad. Prosecution could not disagree more saying, no, no, no. These are offshoot extreme beliefs.

They are different. but most importantly, and this is another big point being put forward by the prosecution, is that this is emanating not from Lori, but from Chad. That is the big point, that he is the leader of all of this. He is manipulating everyone around him. Now, we have to remember that Charles Vallow was killed by Alex Cox in July of 2019. At first, it was claimed that Alex was acting in self-defense for him and Lori, but now Lori is actually charged with conspiracy to commit Charles's murder.

She faces that charge in Arizona. So there's a lot more to what happened that evening, awfully strange and coincidental or weird that there's this belief that he's possessed and he dies. Now, to be clear, Chad is not charged with Charles's death, but evidence of that shooting is coming into this trial ostensibly to show this pattern and motive by the couple to get rid of people in their way. But from there, Zulema talked about Chad's very eerie predictions. And at the time you were there in August, were JJ and Tiley there? Yes. Do you recall anyone talking about JJ dying young or dying soon? Yeah, during this meeting, Chad said that

And JJ was going to die young, that he was probably going to die soon, and that he was going to come right back to Earth as Colby's son. And who was Colby? Lori's son. So did Chad and Lori say they'd both been exalted before? Yes. Was there any indication that Tammy may die? Chad said that Tammy was going to be, was going to die early and that he, he had related before that he had a portal in his house where he would get information or communication from the spirit world where he would get instructions and,

information and knowledge and that through this portal he was getting information such as that Tammy was going to die soon. Had you ever heard of portals in the way Chad was talking about him? No. I've always thought that this is some of the most damaging evidence. If the jury believes this in my mind, this puts Chad right in front of all of this. He predicts that these people die. and they end up dying,

as much as the defense is separating Chad from Lori or trying to do that and what she did, he's the one allegedly saying all this stuff. By the way, talking about Tammy, Daybell for a second, Zulema recounted how they tried to do a casting of Tammy again, Dark Spirits. And again, this is Chad's wife.

Well, this night that they did the casting, she ends up hearing a very strange conversation or overhear is a strange conversation between Lori and somebody else on the phone. After the casting, did you hear Lori on the phone? Yes, she was on a phone call afterwards. How did she appear? She was extremely angry. She was irate.

I had never seen her that upset. She was like it's scary angry. and she was calling, whoever she was on the phone with, she was calling this person names like morong, idiot, stupid, and very, very, very angry. And after she got off that phone call, did she say anything to you? Yeah, right after she hung up the phone,

she said, idiot, can't do anything by himself. Now remember, someone allegedly tried to shoot Tammy Daybell the days before her death. We heard the 911 phone call from her. It's been speculated that that person was Alex Cox. So is that the person that Lori is on the phone with, the person she's calling an idiot? Because he didn't carry it out. He didn't kill Tammy. But continuing on with Zulema, listen to what Lori allegedly told Zulema about the kids.

I said, hey, where's Tiley? And she said, well, she. had to be free, meaning Kylie had to be free. And when I went to ask her to explain what that meant or what she meant by that,

she put her hand against my face and said, don't ask. Did she ever provide you any additional information as to where Tyley was? No. She had mentioned a couple of times that

Tiley had been possessed by a dark spirit named Hillary. Do you know where Lori received that information? From chat. Do you recall hearing anything about JJ being attacked by demons? Yeah, before they moved to Regsburg, Laurie was saying that in the middle of the night, JJ was being attacked by... by dark spirits and that they couldn't get him.

I don't think I really have to say much there, do I? I'll tell you what, I will discuss more of Alex Cox, because again, he is believed to be the purported hitman in this case, the man who killed the children, buried their bodies, potentially shooting at other people, possibly connected to the death of Tammy Daybell. We know he shot and killed Charles Vallow. Now, listen to Zulema's disturbing conversations

with Alex, including after he killed Charles Valo. I asked him, are you okay? And he asked me why. I said, well, because you just shot somebody yesterday. And he looked at me and he said. I'm going to object at this point. It's your say. Co-conspirator, Your Honor.

Based on the response of the state, I find it is an exception. so that's overruled. I don't know. So am I. He was a zombie. Did Alex seem to truly believe what Chad was telling him? 100%.

Do you recall him saying anything in regards to help he'd provided them? He said, can you believe that they're being such jerks now that after I help them, now they don't even want to talk to me? Had Alex relied on Lori and Chad for answers? Oh, for everything. Had he relied on them for guidance? Yes. How would you describe Alex and Lori's relationship?

They were very close to each other. Chad had told Alex that the only reason why he had come come to this earth at this time was to be Lori's protector. And he really took that to heart and believed it. He also allegedly told Zulema that he thinks he's going to be their fall guy, assuming he's talking about Lori and Chad. But you hear his apparent devotion to these two, that he's Lori's protector. Would he do anything for them, anything for Lori? And what would he do for them would he kill for them hey guys i want to take a quick sidebar from sidebar to talk to you about something look this is a very sad and tragic and disturbing case and it makes you think about how

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the idea of she manipulating him. He brought up Zulema's immunity agreement with the government to testify, so is she credible? and that with all of these religious beliefs, Zulema never heard Chad nor Lori saying, we have to kill people. So it's good points there by John Pryor. But let's move on to some more disturbing moments and talking disturbing moments. Let's talk more about the death of Tammy Daybell. So we heard from those in her life about how chilling her death was and more importantly,

how sudden it was. I want to draw your attention back to October 19th of 20th, 19. Did you learn of Tammy's passing that day? Yes, I did. How did you learn of it? My mom called me. My mom called me on the phone. And she was crying hysterically and told me Tammy passed.

Why was that confusing to you? It just didn't make any sense. Why not? She was so young and healthy. When you observed Tammy, did you ever notice her appear to slow down? No. Did you ever notice any change in her activity level prior to her death? No.

Did she ever complain to you about any health issues? No. Did you ever observe Tammy have any shaking fits? No. Did you ever observe Tammy faint? No. And what makes this all the more chilling is what we heard from the Utah Medical Examiner, Dr. Eric Christensen. He had this to say that Tammy's death was anything from natural.

What did you determine the cause of death to be? We ruled her cause of death to be asphyxia. What did you determine her manner of death to be? We determined her manner of death to be homicide. We also didn't find any natural disease that would explain her death. Her heart was completely normal. Her lungs were normal except for some fluid build up in them. Her liver, kidneys, all of her organs were normal. And so we did not identify an anatomic or pathologic explanation for her death. During Tammy's autopsy, did you find any physical signs of seizure activity? We did not. Very different from Chad's alleged accounting to the coroner that Tammy had died from a seizure. Now, in cross-examination, John Pryor used the bruises on Tammy's body to cast doubt

on the idea that she was held down and killed, that she could have died from a toxic drug cocktail that she took, whether it's possible a heart arrhythmia or seizure was a possibility at all, all trying to raise reasonable doubt about what happened to Tammy Daybilt. But talking Tammy a little bit more, talking disturbing, one of the craziest things in this whole case, one of the strongest pieces of evidence against Chad and Lori, is that they get married in Hawaii, what, two weeks after Tammy's death?

Bad enough that they're having an affair and she dies, but then that? Well, how about this interaction I'm about to show you? Playing again, a bit of testimony from Alice Gilbert, Tammy Daybell's friend, listened to her interaction with Chad after Tammy died. So just shortly after Tammy's passing. Yes. And Chad indicated to you, he didn't want you to come to his place, but he'd come to yours. Yeah.

He said, oh, I'll come over to your place. So we said, okay. Did you ever end up seeing where Chad was living in Rexburg? No. And did he, in fact, end up coming to your place? He did. And did you end up having a conversation with him at that time? Yes.

He sat at our kitchen table and I had made cookies and thought, you know, we would make it nice. And he said that... He found the woman he was going to marry. And we were absolutely stunned. Yep. Kind of weird, right? Let's say he has nothing to do with his wife's untimely death. Still a weird reaction.

No? Suspicious? Talking weird statements and reactions in our discussion of disturbing moments from Chad Daybell's trial, here's a sampling of people that Chad and Lori interacted with after the kids went missing. Now, remember, prosecutors say the kids are already dead. They're already buried. Clearly, Lori already knows this, right? She's been convicted. The evidence in this case, suggesting Chad knows as well that he was a part of this whole thing. So you're going to hear

right now from a real estate agent and friend of Chad's. Talked about building a second house on the property after Tammy's death, but you'll hear more from that. Then you're going to hear from Alice Gilbert again. And you're also going to hear from an insurance broker. And back to the conversation that you had with Chad about where the kids were. When you asked where the kids were, whose children were you referring to? The kids that were missing Lori's kids. His wife, Lori's children. And what did Chad tell you about his wife, Lori's children and where they were? He looked me straight in the eye, and he told me that they were okay. And when this all was going to be, when everything came out, that everything was going to be just fine.

And that was in March of 2020? That's correct. I asked her if she'd been married. And she said, yes, that her husband had died in December of a heart attack. I asked her if she had children. And then Chad said that she had recently had a daughter that had passed. And I said, oh, I'm sorry. And I said, how many?

And she said, thank you. And I said, how many children do you have? and she kind of stammered and said there were stepchildren and I did not get a definite answer on that. When Chad said that she'd recently lost a daughter, did Lori say anything to correct that or change it? No.

When we got to the income, he said, they confiscated my computer, so I haven't been able to pay myself yet. And what was your reaction to that? I said they Okay And did he explain who he's talking about? He said the FBI

What did you ask him? Back then the application states Is there anyone else in your household whether they need coverage or not? Is there anyone on your tax return whether they need coverage or not? And so I just went through those normal questions

And in that line of questioning with him did he ever mention JJ or Tiley? No. Having learned a about J.J. and Tiley's missing status, did that cause you any concern when you were processing this paperwork for Mr. DeBell at that point? Yes. What was the concern? Just, I mean, it was all over the news that they were missing and him saying that just validated that they were. What about concerns relative to the insurance policy? It made me think we may have a fraudulent life payout.

explain that please i was worried that tammy's death may have not been an accident and that the life premiums may have been paid out when they shouldn't have been if the jury believes these statements and conversations occurred does this seem like someone who is totally in the dark about what happened to these kids or does this seem like lorry and chad know exactly what is going on here, which brings me to the testimony of Melanie Polowski, and I'm going to finish up with her. So Melanie Polowski is the niece of Lori Valladaybel, and she was around Chad and Lori in this circle of religious discussion. Interesting note, she was married to a man named Brandon Boudreau. He actually testified that Melanie was being influenced by Chad and Lori. They end up

deciding to get divorced, and he said in October of 2019, before Tammy dies, but in the same month, after the kids are killed, by the way. Someone tried to shoot him. Again, presumably Alex Cox. Crazy aspect of the story. Melanie Polowski is now testifying in Chad Daybill's trial. She didn't testify in Lori Valo Daybill's trial. She wasn't permitted to.

Apparently, she improperly listened to testimony and read up about the case, which is something that she wasn't supposed to do or allowed to do as a witness. So now we have her here at Chad Daybill's trial. And here is Melanie talking about her conversations with Lori. that were quite revealing, and yes, very disturbing, considering what we know now. At some point, after they moved to Rexburg, did you end up visiting them? Yes. When you arrived, was JJ there?

No. Was Tyley there? No. Did you ask Lori where Tyley was? Yes. What did she tell you? I got a few different answers, but one I remember clearly was that she was with a friend from college at

at BYU and that she was kind of doing her own thing. But that's one of the main answers that she would give. Did you ask where JJ was? Yes. What did she tell you about JJ? She said she had hired a nanny there in the area and that the nanny helped a lot with J.J. In October, do you recall going on a trip with Lori?

Yes. Where did you go? To, sorry, you. said October? Yes, October. We went to Hawaii. Do you recall going somewhere with her prior to traveling to Hawaii? Yes. And where was that? Missouri. When you went to Missouri, was Tiley with you? No. Was J.J. with you? No. Did you ask Lori where they were? Yes. What did she tell you? I think she said that the nanny was helping with J.J. And I don't think Tiley at the time needed Like a babysitter, she was old enough to kind of be independent.

Or maybe it could have been to that Tiley was helping with JJ. I can't remember exactly. Did something happen back in Idaho while you were in Hawaii? Yes. And what was that? Tammy Daywell passed away. Did Lori head back to Idaho after that? Yes.

Did you head back to Idaho right away? No, I stayed longer. Was someone else supposed to go on the trip with you and Lori to Hawaii? I think I found out later that Alex was going to come with us on that trip. Why didn't Alex go? Lori said Chad had something that he needed help with. Very eerie and arguably incriminating answers about the kids. An explanation for why Alex didn't come to Hawaii.

Could it be that he had to help Chad with the alleged murder? of Tammy Daybell? I don't know. Something to think about. And she also testified that Lori spoke with her about how someone could become possessed or become a zombie and that again, the body would have to die if someone were possessed with a strong enough entity. The darkness was too much. Does that sound very familiar with what we're talking about? And she said, like we heard before, that this idea in her mind possibly emanated from Chad. And we're going to end with this. A recorded phone call between Melanie, Chad Daybell, Lori Vallow Daybell. This gives you a sense of everything that we just talked about.

This is from December 2019 after the deaths of JJ, Tiley, Tammy, and Charles Vallow. But isn't Rexford like the place is safety when all things happen? Yeah, but there's been lots of prophecies about major turmoil there. The plane's going to sweep through Rexburg. Civil War rats, I had a vision of second east where McDonald's is and everything. Just chaos, people starving, fighting. So there is still a stretch of past times coming to Rexburg before the city of Lydide. So we end up kind of paved the way.

Very strange and disturbing indeed. That's all we have for you here on Sidebar. thank you so much for joining us. As always, please subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, wherever you get your podcast. I'm Jesse Weber. I'll speak to you next time. Bye.