Law&Crime Sidebar - Ex-TMZ Employee Morgan Tremaine

Episode Date: August 23, 2022

Morgan Tremaine worked for TMZ during the end of Johnny Depp’s marriage to Amber Heard and was involved in covering three stories fed to the website by Heard’s team. Law&Crime’s Angenette Levy talks with Tremaine in his first news interview since the trial about why he contacted Depp’s lawyers, what it was like to testify and what life has been like since he took the stand.PLEASE SUPPORT THE SHOW:Claim your SPECIAL OFFER for MagellanTV here: https://try.magellantv.com/lawandcrime/GUESTS:Morgan Tremaine, Former TMZ Employee: https://www.twitch.tv/MorganTremaineLAW&CRIME SIDEBAR PRODUCTION:YouTube Management - Bobby SzokePodcasting - Sam GoldbergVideo Editing - Michael DeiningerGuest Booking - Alyssa FisherSocial Media Management - Kiera BronsonSUBSCRIBE TO OUR OTHER PODCASTS:Court JunkieObjectionsThey Walk Among AmericaCoptales and CocktailsThe Disturbing TruthSpeaking FreelyLAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandcrime/Twitter: https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetworkFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawandcrimeTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lawandcrimenetworkTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lawandcrimeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can binge all episodes of this Law and Crimes series ad-free right now. Join Wondry Plus in the Wondery app Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Agent Nate Russo returns in Oracle 3, Murder at the Grandview, the latest installment of the gripping Audible Original series. When a reunion at an abandoned island hotel turns deadly, Russo must untangle accident from murder. But beware, something sinister lurks in the grand. View Shadows. Joshua Jackson delivers a bone-chilling performance in this supernatural thriller that will

keep you on the edge of your seat. Don't let your fears take hold of you as you dive into this addictive series. Love thrillers with a paranormal twist? The entire Oracle trilogy is available on Audible. Listen now on Audible. While working for TMZ, were you involved in any assignments related to Ms. Heard? I was. Morgan Tremaine, the former TMZ employee, turned heads when he testified about sending photographers to the Los Angeles County Courthouse on May 27th, 2016, when Amber Hurd filed for a restraining order against Johnny Depp. Their objective was to capture her leaving the courthouse, and then she was going to sort of stop and turn towards the camera to display the bruise on the right side of her face, the LH bruise. Did your team of videographers get the shot

of Amber Heard? We did. He also handled that video of Johnny Depp's slamming cabinets, in his kitchen. And Tremaine created a lot of buzz when he clapped back at Hurd's lawyers. You know this case is being televised, right? I am aware that there are cameras. And so this gets you your 15 minutes of fame. Objection, Your Honor, are you mandatory? I can ask that question.

I'm ruled. So I stand to gain nothing from this. I'm actually putting myself kind of in a target of TMZ, a very litigious organization. and I'm not seeking any 15 minutes here. Though you may, you're welcome to speculate. I could say the same thing by taking Amber Hurd as a client for you. A little argumentative, don't you think? Oh, hardly. I find that to be purely logical.

Now he's telling all about why he contacted Depp's lawyers during the trial. I'm Anjanette Levy, and welcome to this latest edition of Law and Crimes Sidebar podcast, where we are joined by a very special guest, somebody I've been wanting to talk to, for quite some time. And he's with us now. He is one of those people who came in toward the end of the trial. And he was a hit. He was what we would call a trial watcher favorite. Morgan Tremaine. Morgan, welcome to Sidebar. Thanks for coming on. Oh, yeah, no problem. I know you guys have been trying to get me on since literally I took one step out of the courtroom. So you got me finally. Do you have my card still after I chased you? I think I do. It's somewhere, yeah. All right. Well, yes, I've been wanting to get you on for some time. And when I handed you my card, you kind of gave me the skeptical look. So, you know, we're both in the news biz. You were in the news biz. So we kind of have that skeptical part of our personalities. But I want to know since the trial and since you got so much attention, how have you been doing? I've been doing fine. In all honesty, I'm very much used to the press sort of rounds that happen after. after events like this because I've been on the other side of it for so long. So I knew what to

look for. I knew what that pitfalls were. So I think I did a pretty good job of keeping my head down as much as I could. I've been pretty public about the fact that I turned down a lot of TV interviews and just about every podcast imaginable. So I just tried to keep my head down. And I'll just, I'll tweet and be snarky as one would be. But that'll be about it. I've seen some of your tweets and I've seen the snark. I always appreciate good snark. I think most of us do. One of those things that I noticed you did was after Amber Hurd's Dateline interview in which that clip aired in which she discussed how Randos came out, you know, to testify and things like that. You changed your name on Twitter for a day or two to Randow,

I think, number two. And I think Morgan Knight might have been Randow number one. So I'm assuming you guys got a kick out of that. Well, I mean, it's just an interesting choice of words to have in her mind it be randos, but really all it means is credible witnesses that she didn't know about because that was one of the benefits of it being publicized. I really wouldn't have known that I had such a part in this if it hadn't been televised. So having seen those clips and when those three letters started coming up in the trial, then I started to realize, oh, I remember all of this actually, I think I might be a part of this and then realizing I very much am a part of this. So yeah, it's just in her mind, it's randos, but really all it means is it's credible witness.

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Again, your one-month free trial, log on to MagellanTV.com slash law and crime. I want to know exactly, and I know you kind of testified to this at the trial. really prompted you to come forward. It's my understanding from your testimony. You contacted Johnny Depp's attorneys and said, hey, I know something about this. So what exactly was it in which that prompted you to just call them and say, I need to talk to you? Well, I had started to see clips on TikTok once TMZ started getting into the mix of things. And I had seen, I'd seen a couple clips of people talking about like, oh, TMZ is the smoking gun, clearly. There's got to be something that they could, that they could say that would pop in on this. And then I slowly started to remember

and feel like I was a part of this. I'm like, I kind of remember being there that night when we received the video. I remember in just what my work was at the time having to be very much a part of sending cameras through. So there have been other times in the media where I feel very much close to certain events that come up or certain stories just by virtue of having worked on them and a lot of like big celebrity deaths and celebrity scandals and such. But with this one in particular, I remember seeing a TikTok in which someone felt like they had some kind of, some kind of idea or, or evidence in some way. And they had recorded themselves sending an email to Camilla.

And I hadn't even thought of that as a possibility. And so then I started to think, maybe I should just send her an email and just, you know, see if I can help in some way because somebody's definitely lying in this based on my first-hand knowledge of this. So I had just sent an email and it said literally it said that the subject line was like former TMZ employee. And I even had said, you know, I'm sure you guys are already talking to other TMZ employees as, you know, in just your due diligence of this case. And even so far as naming someone who I knew was very, very closely involved in the story at the time. And I said, you know, but if there's anything I can do to help, like it's, I was there

that night when we received this video and maybe I can help clear some stuff up because it looks like someone's possibly lying. And then I received a phone call about an hour later. And as soon as I saw Camille's number come up on my caller ID, I knew I was I was in it too deep and I was probably going to have to testify. And it was too late to go back now. Yeah, no turning back for sure. So it was Camille's cell or her office number and it pops up and you know, okay, it's his lawyers. Yeah, it had been, I think it was maybe immediately after they had called it for the day. And then she she'd been checking her email and just called me straight away and was basically like, what are you doing next week?

So it was during Amber Hurd's case. I'm assuming that you contacted her. If she's asking you, what are you doing? It was about a week before I was up. Wow. It happened very, very quickly. I guess they flew you out. I would assume that's how that works.

Yes. Yeah, because, I mean, it would be silly to expect you to pay your own way. That would be crazy. So what was it that you found? I mean, you seemed almost like you found it offensive. that the video had been, the portion that had been sent to TMZ was the front end and then the back end, the back end where she was kind of, as many people felt snickering had been snipped off along with her setting up the camera. What was it about that that you found kind of offensive?

I wouldn't say I found it offensive. Okay. Well, that was my interpretation. So I'm sorry. What did you, what was it about it that you didn't like or that prompted you to reach out? Well, I mean, it wasn't it wasn't anything emotional. it was just the fact that it was essentially doctored. It was essentially edited for a particular purpose, I believe.

And I think that was very clear to perhaps the jury. But yeah, it was edited in a way that made it seem beneficial for one party more than the other. And I think that's fairly obvious. And all I did was state the facts that what we received was an edited portion of what was shown in court. And that's something that really anyone could have made. noticed at that point, but I just think nobody had because if you'd gone back and looked at the TMZ article and the video that was still up, it was shown as such. I think you might look at that and think, oh, maybe TMZ caught off the front and top of it, but my unique perspective was knowing

that we did not edit that video. And so when you looked at it and you saw that Amber heard was actually the person who filmed the video, I mean, up until that point, when you saw it on the trial or TikTok or what have you. Did you know that Amber was the one who filmed the video? Obviously, you said you knew you were dealing at the time with the copyright holder, which would be the person who owns the video and who shot the video. So did you know before you had seen that at trial that it was her who had sent in the video? Well, without saying too much, I will say it was it's very obvious watching the original video on TMZ.com who was taking the video.

Mm-hmm. Okay. Got it. So, I mean, were you surprised at the reaction to your testimony? Because obviously, you really had a presence about you. I don't know if you realized that. But you had a presence about you. And when you were on cross-examination, you know, there was this suggestion that you just kind of popped up out of nowhere to get your 15 minutes of fame. You just told me you've turned down lots of interview requests and things like that from, you know, news organizations, podcasts, etc. So people, I mean, I think we were all amused by it because you're like, whoa, he really like smacked a lane down with that. But in Johnny Depp even kind of seemed to snicker a little bit at your testimony or seemed to be amused by it. So what was, what were your thoughts as you watched kind of people say things about you? I'm sure you became a couple of million TikTok videos or what have you. I mean, what were your thoughts? I mean, I had no idea what was going on at the moment. I was such a ball of stress. I think it wasn't until maybe the next day that I started to realize that, oh, I think people got a kick out of that. But I mean, really, it's just, I mean, I had no idea. When I was up there,

all I knew is that they were out of time, Amber's side. So my cross was going to be very short. And I was just, I didn't, I didn't know what they were going to ask. I knew they were going to object the entire time. And I knew that they were going to have a very short cross. I just didn't realize they were going to waste their time on it. Because frankly, I could think of maybe 10 things they could have asked me that would have been legitimate. And instead, they asked me, they tried to imply that I was, I was in there for fame, which is just, I think anybody, anybody who knows me knows I'm not in it for that. And I have a lot of anxiety and it took a lot for me to do that. It was basically like a full day of trying to psych myself up and talking to my psychiatrist and trying

to figure out how I could possibly get through doing this because I just did not want that kind of attention. So you were, wow, you were really stressed out about this. Oh yeah. I can't, I cannot explain how much I did not want to do this. But it was like I said, as soon as I saw that name come up on my caller ID, I was like, I am I am really involved in this and I think I have a responsibility to speak up now, especially if the, if counsel feels like this is something that they made. Did you feel like when you were watched, I mean, were you watching the actual trial streaming as, before you saw this TikTok and all of this other stuff? I wasn't. I had just seen clips of it and, because I just, I mean, I have a job. I'm busy. But I, I, uh, right? You're,

you have a regular life, right? I had just seen clips of it. And even now, there are clips that I've, that'll pop up of, of the trial that I've never seen and I didn't know about. So I had really, it was just a few days before I reached out when the TMZ of it started popping up. Yeah. And obviously TMZ hired a lawyer. They didn't want you guys. They didn't want you testifying, I should say, not you guys, but they didn't want you to testify. Obviously, they filed the wrong motion to intervene, which, you know, we kind of thought that at the time, why are they filing a motion to intervene? But this was you not being compelled to testify. This was you coming forward as an ex-employee testifying. So there's a difference there, I think, because you were willing to discuss it.

What did you think of the things that Elaine was asking you? I mean, did you feel stressed out at the time when you were on cross? You said you were, you know, it'd fall of stress up there. I mean, because you really, like, you really clapped back at her pretty hard. Well, I mean, I've said it before, but I mean, it was bullying like anybody else. I've had to deal with that from people in power for a long time. So I'm used to dealing with that kind of thing. So that was the reflex of just having a,

having kind of a rational response to it instead of just being bullied. So that's all it was. It was just bullying. So like I said, they could have, she could have asked me probably 10 legitimate things and chose to go that route. So you want to share those with us? I wasn't trying to.

Not really. I think a lot of people, a lot of people, there are plenty of things people could have asked to probably try to poke holes in what I was saying, but I'm not in the interest of doing their job for them. So they chose to use their very short amount of cross time. they had to ask me some nonsensical questions, and that's their right.

So did you notice during your testimony at all? I mean, were you just kind of looking at the lawyer asking you the questions at the time, whether it was Camille Vasquez or Elaine Brettahoft, were you just kind of focused on that? Or did your eyes kind of meet with anybody else in the courtroom? I mean, you said you were a ball of stress. Did you see Amber Heard looking at you? I mean, what was going on? I don't think I ever, I might have looked over to Amber once, but mostly it was just addressing whoever was asking me questions.

I just tried to remain calm and just answer the questions. And anybody who says I did a good job up there, I just say it's easy when you're telling the truth. You're just answering questions. That's all it is. So I looked over to the jury a few times out of curiosity and seeing the person closest to the stand knowing, oh, this is the guy that Amber keeps staring at. In her testimony, I feel bad for this guy. Okay. There was a man who came forward after the trial, a juror, who spoke to Good Morning America.

and he was not on camera, but he apparently told them that they felt uncomfortable because she did look at them. I mean, she kind of talked to them when she was testifying. And our legal analysts had kind of remarked on that, too, that it was kind of weird and uncomfortable. Even though witnesses are kind of taught to look over at times, you know, you're not supposed to talk to the jury per se. I want to go back to what you were saying, you know, it's easy when you're telling the truth. You know, the verdict in this case that the jury rendered was pretty sweeping. I mean, I think we just need to be honest about it. I've said many times, Johnny Depp ran the table. She got one count that almost seemed like a throwaway. So what, I guess I'm wondering,

what are your thoughts on just the aftermath and the reaction to it? And I say that because, you know, there are so many people acting like the jury didn't get it right. I mean, social media is just, it's like the Thunderdome every day, people talking about this stuff. So what are your thoughts on the reaction to it. You mean on on on the verdict itself? You're talking about the reaction to the verdict like the social media reaction to the verdict? Yes. I don't know. How would you classify the the reaction on social media to the verdict? Well, I feel like there's been I don't know if you feel like this, but I feel like there has been obviously Johnny Depp's supporters support him and there have been celebrities who've come out and supported him. But then there

there's been I don't know what the accounts are. A lot of them are anonymous. Some not so much. Some are people who have put their own names out there thinking that saying that Amber or contending that Amber was wronged and that Johnny Depp basically his team just put on a show and wooed the jury with his celebrity and things like that. So I actually saw a tweet just recently from the Women's March and they said some pretty terrible things about Johnny Depp and some other men. And so I'm just kind of wondering what you've thought of that reaction. Well, I think by the time the verdict came out and everyone had already decided, had some sort of picked aside and had felt like whether, no matter what the verdict is, I'm already on team, you know, hashtag team member or hashtag

team Johnny. But for me, this was never anything political. It was just about telling the truth. So I know that it's been used. It's been politicized in a way. And I think it's, it's up to people if they want to use this in that way. But I think at the, at the end of the day, it should be looked at as just a singular court case and probably nothing more than that. How are you doing now? After all of this, I mean, just kind of looking back, it's been, you know, more than two months now since the verdict. Have the calls for you calm down? I mean, what's gone on? I mean, nothing in my life has really changed. It's like occasionally getting recognized at bars, things like that. And the weirdest thing is just I'll tweet things and it'll end up

as news articles. That's kind of the weirdest thing. But I think I've worked in the media and been a reporter for a long time and understood how that works. And the fact that that at any point, whatever you say online, can be used against you or put on blast in ways like that. So I've conducted myself in a professional way online for a long time. So not much of my life has changed in any real way. And I noticed, too, I thought it was really cool that I, didn't you hold a fundraiser on your Twitch channel?

I did. Yeah. I've immediately, when I got a lot of attention, I noticed a lot of social media coming at that side. You know what? I don't really want to, I think I've frustrated a lot of friends of mine who, work in the media who have said, oh, you got to strike while the iron's hot and try to get like a show or do something. And, you know, not everyone wants to be the next Ryan Seacrest,

and I frankly don't want to. So I just try to use it for, for charity. I'm friends with the people who own a couple charities and just tried to use that for good in any way I can. I think that's really nice. Do you want to name those charities that you held those fundraisers for? Sure. So I work in the video game industry, and I work really closely with this one called StackUp, which uses video games to combat veterans' suicide and promote positive mental health in active military. So what they do is they send care packages of video games and consoles to veterans that are struggling and then also to active military to keep them occupied while that are deployed.

That's amazing. That's really amazing, Morgan. That's really cool that you do that and that you did that. I'm kind of, you know, taken aback by that. That's really sweet. Is that something that's near and dear to your heart or just, you know, have some, you have empathy for people who are struggling? with that? Well, I grew up a lot of my childhood was spent in San Diego and you see a lot of homeless veterans in the streets and it's something that's very, very obvious as you walk down the street. And then you have friends who've joined the military and come back. And my mom worked with veterans to help them get out, the ones who had really aggressive PTSD and couldn't handle it anymore. So it is something that I both have seen the mental health struggles of being

deployed and coming back. And I understand very much the positive mental health of video game. Video games can render on somebody. So I think it's a great charity in that way. And I'm also going to be working with gamers outreach, which is another gaming focus company, which sends essentially gaming packages sort of on rolling devices to children's hospitals, as well as build gaming rooms in children's hospitals. Oh, that's really nice. That's really nice. Wow. So, Morgan, you know, I want to go back to just, you know, your time at TMZ. You also dispatched the camera crew to the courthouse on May 27th, 2016 when Amber Heard was filing for her TRO against Johnny Depp. Is there anything you wanted to share with us about that? Or was that something that you thought you would be asked about? I asked about as far as like at the trial. Did you, you were contacting them about the kitchen cabinet video. But did you think that that would become relevant? as well? Yeah, probably. I mean, it's, it's, it's always a saga when it comes to, I mean, media coverage of these things, especially when you're, when you're working, I mean, you know, different

sides of, different sides of this, of this coin. There's always, there's always a lot of articles to be had around these proceedings and, and you can go months long worth of coverage and get a lot of articles out of it. So you're always, you're always working a lot of, a lot of different stories over the time. And yeah, so I knew that there were different times in which, trying to choose my carefully. And other times in which we had we had covered this story in a way that would be relevant to this case. Is there anything you want to share about that? I mean, looking back on that, I mean, it was probably just another story, you know, it was another day in your life in the news business when that happened. But then looking back on it now, do you have any thoughts about,

you know, that day or what was shown to the public? It was very much like a day like any other, frankly. That's sort of what it's like inside of that building. It's just a, it's a lot of, a lot of chasing leads and a lot of sending people to, to places to get, to get things. I mean, that's just the job. Have you heard from Johnny Depp or from Amber Heard since your testimony? I have not. Okay. I wouldn't expect that you would have, but I just, I feel like I had to have. People said like, oh, Johnny's got to put you in one of his movies or something. I'm like, no, he doesn't. He wants to put all this behind him as fast as humanly pop. possible. I guarantee you. Yeah, I think so. I think that was really apparent. I wouldn't blame him for not

wanting to see anyone's face who was involved in this ever again. Well, Morgan Tremaine, a former TMZ employee and somebody who a lot of people liked hearing from during the Depp v. Heard trial, thanks so much for coming on. We really appreciate it. We're so glad you agreed to do it, and we wish you the very best. Thanks so much. And that's it for this edition of Law and Crime Sidebar podcast. It is produced by Sam Goldberg and Michael Dininger. Bobby Zoki is our YouTube manager, Alyssa Fisher. handles our bookings, and Kiera Bronson does our social media. You can listen to Sidebar on Apple, Spotify, Google, and wherever else you get your podcast. And of course, as always, you can watch it on Law and Crimes YouTube channel. I'm Ann Jeanette Levy, and we will see you next time.

right now on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.