Law&Crime Sidebar - Family Blasts ‘Selfish’ Killer Mom: ‘I Will Never Forgive You!'

Episode Date: November 26, 2024

Enraged and heartbroken family members of 6-year-old Maurice Baker, Jr. and 9-year-old Jayden Howard were given the opportunity to speak directly to the boys’ killer in court this week. Tiffanie Lucas entered a guilty plea after she shot both sons in the head last November. Law&Crime’s Jesse Weber recounts the most emotional moments as the judge sentenced Lucas to life in prison.PLEASE SUPPORT THE SHOW: If you’re ever injured in an accident, you can check out Morgan & Morgan. You can submit a claim in 8 clicks or less without having to leave your couch. To start your claim, visit: https://www.forthepeople.com/LCSidebarHOST:Jesse Weber: https://twitter.com/jessecordweberLAW&CRIME SIDEBAR PRODUCTION:YouTube Management - Bobby SzokeVideo Editing - Michael Deininger and Christina FalconeScript Writing & Producing - Savannah Williamson & Juliana BattagliaGuest Booking - Alyssa Fisher & Diane KayeSocial Media Management - Vanessa BeinSTAY UP-TO-DATE WITH THE LAW&CRIME NETWORK:Watch Law&Crime Network on YouTubeTV: https://bit.ly/3td2e3yWhere To Watch Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3akxLK5Sign Up For Law&Crime's Daily Newsletter: https://bit.ly/LawandCrimeNewsletterRead Fascinating Articles From Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3td2IqoLAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandcrime/Twitter: https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetworkFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawandcrimeTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lawandcrimenetworkTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lawandcrimeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can binge all episodes of this Law and Crimes series ad-free right now. Join Wondry Plus in the Wondery app Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Agent Nate Russo returns in Oracle 3, Murder at the Grandview, the latest installment of the gripping Audible Original series. When a reunion at an abandoned island hotel turns deadly, Russo must untangle accident from murder. But beware, something sinister lurks in the grand. View Shadows. Joshua Jackson delivers a bone-chilling performance in this supernatural thriller

that will keep you on the edge of your seat. Don't let your fears take hold of you as you dive into this addictive series. Love thrillers with a paranormal twist? The entire Oracle trilogy is available on Audible. Listen now on Audible. Hold on Lord, give me straight. You have heard so many people tell me. I will never Forgive you. Emotions ran high in a Kentucky courtroom this week as a judge handed down a life sentence to 33-year-old Tiffany Ann Lucas, the mom who stood over her two young sons and shot them both in the head.

Her defense team said she was in the middle of a psychotic break. Heartbroken family members spoke during that hearing saying that Lucas had so many other options besides murder. We're going to hear from them right now. Welcome to Sidebar, presented by Law and Crime. I'm Jesse Weber. Six-year-old Maurice Baker, Jr., and nine-year-old Jaden Howard, lost their lives last November. And it wasn't due to an accident or sickness.

No. It was due to murder. And it was a murder committed by, of all people, their own mother, Tiffany Ann Lucas. Neighbors of the 33-year-old in Bullitt County, Kentucky say she came running out of her home, crying for help, was laying down in the driveway. A neighbor found these two boys with gunshot wounds to the head inside of Lucas's home. They were rushed to a hospital, but they both died. Lucas was arrested and she was charged with murder. And the natural question, of course, is why?

Why would she do this? Well, during an interrogation, she told detectives that she may have been manipulated into murdering her children, possibly by the internet or Facebook. It's bizarre, I know. Then she tried or seemingly tried to say the shooting had been accidental. Lucas entered a not guilty plea. And by the way, at one point, there were talks about a possible insanity defense. But later on, she had a change of heart. She chose to change her plea to guilty, meaning there would be no trial here.

all be spared from having to see photos of these children. A jury was spared of having to see these children. We'd all be spared hearing about what happened that day. But because she pled guilty and this was an open plea, there was no plea deal here, this left her fate, her sentence in the hands of the judge. So what happens? This week, Maurice and Jaden's family members crowded into a courtroom for Lucas's sentencing. And there is something to note here. While Lucas was the mother of both of these boys, they had different families, hence the different last names. So you're seeing a lot of different family members here. And I should also tell you, apparently under Kentucky Commonwealth law, the judge could have either decided 70 years in prison

or life in prison without parole for 20 years. So with that in mind, now let's get into the hearing. One of the responding officers from this grisly crime scene that day told the court that the defendant was most certainly the killer. Detective, is there any doubt in your mind that Tiffany Lucas was the person who shot Jaden Howard and Maurice Baker? There's no doubt at all. Now, in terms of Lucas's defense team, they contended that she was suffering from a psychotic break from reality, that she really didn't know what she was doing when she shot her sons. But the victim's family members say, if she was having a mental episode, it was likely

connected back to her apparent drug use. I know. This is a very tough case. But look, you can't ignore it. It's important to understand what happened to see how the justice system works here, to hold Lucas accountable. And we have been trying to cover this story from the very beginning. And look, the truth is, we're really able to do that, not only because of the amazing support that we get from you all, but also from our sponsors. And I have to call out our incredible partner. And I have to call out our incredible partner, Morgan and Morgan, for this. Because here's the thing. If you should get injured, America's largest injury law firm, maybe who you want in your corner. And I'm talking not only over a thousand attorneys and additional support staff, not only is the process

super simple because it can all be done from your smartphone. Not only is there no upfront fee, but Morgan and Morgan's track record is so impressive. Like recent verdicts, $12 million in Florida, $26 million in Philadelphia, $6.8 million in New York. And all of these minds, you're considerably higher than the highest insurance offers in these cases. So if you're injured, you can easily start a claim at forthepeople.com slash LC sidebar. Now, before the judge handed down his sentence, victim impact statements were provided. And one by one, the little boys' family members made their way to the witness stand

to talk about how Lucas's callous decision changed their lives forever. And first we heard from Jayden's grandmother. And I should tell you that Jaden's father had passed away previously. So when you think about this, when you think about Regina Rowan, she is now left without both her son and her grandson. You know, we love Jane and my race. You know, Jane was the only thing we had left. And you took him from us. You know, I had already lost his dad.

And then my other son. And then you took Jane, you have ripped our lives apart. And you know that you could have gave them kids to us, and we were to cur of them. But you have been selfish. My heart is in pieces, and you know that you have always had a place to drop off. You took him from me, and I heard every day, every second of the day I hurt. And I hope they give you two life sentences without the possibility of the world. I want you to suffer just like I'm suffering right now.

They did not deserve that. You took my little man from me. And we all love him so much. in my reason. I'm going to hit back to us and say it. She just knows she'd have ripped us a lot. Mr. Pailor, any additional questions? No other questions. Any questions from the defense? Sure. Is this with us free to be excused? Yes, yes.

Sure. Thank you, ma'am. You're welcome to have a seat back in the courtroom or leave the court. Bobby Baker and aunt had some very strong words for Tiffany Lucas. What is your relationship to the victims? in this case, the two of the boys? Um, I. Okay. Maris, but I consider myself Jaden's honor as well. I understand.

Uh, would you please, uh, read your end of that statement for the court? Tiffany, on November 20, November 8th, 20, 23, you changed the lives of two beautiful boys. You wrote my brother's heart, my heart, and a heart of anyone who had been counted them. Jason and my Reese didn't see you for who you really are. They loved you so much, but at the end of the day, you became what children their age feared the most, a monster. Not for one minute do I believe, like you said, you were in a hard spot. You had support in so many ways that you could abuse. Like I often told you when we spoke, being a good mom is also making a decision that you can't give the boys the best life

and allowing another parent to step in, but you refuse to do so selfishly because it wouldn't align with what social media is off. Instead, you decide to supplate God and decide the boy's face. I often see these court shows where the defendants are forgiven by the victim's family, but not today, not by me. I will never forgive you. I struggle and often wondering what else kind of pain did they endure at the hands of you before you ultimately took their life. Part of this statement I was going to write,

I hope every day you close your eyes that they haunt you. but I don't. You don't deserve to see them and they don't, they shouldn't see you. If he decides to give you any calillianty today and grant you parole at some point, I'll be there at every parole area. Do you hear me? I'll be there at every parole hearing. Oh, ma'am, just to have more questions. I'll have no further questions. There are no questions from the defense. Then you can go ahead and leave that thing. By the way, after she left the witness stand, Baker couldn't even make it to the courtroom door before she burst into tears. She sobbed as she walked out of the courtroom and into that hall.

Naomi Crawford, Michelle Reddy, also aunts of the victims, they were next to give statements. You just want to tell the court and make it tip you took away our chance to have a relationship with my nephew. When my brother calls it, I wonder how he's doing. And I answer the phone so quick, I hope he's okay. Because I remember how you broke him. So at 12.30 at night when he calls me, if I don't answer that phone, if I don't see that phone call him, it's such agony. Because I wonder, is he okay?

Do you need me? That's my answer to him. His son is gone. You can never bring him back. And there is nothing in no amount of time that this court could give you that is fair. Life expectancy is about 70 years. You took 60 from them. Anything less than 60 for both of them or each of him is not even enough.

It's difficult to even map the words that my nephew was killed, that he was murdered. He was murdered. by someone that was supposed to be a protector to love him unconditionally, you had options. You had options you chose not to take. There were resources. There were resources you chose not to take. Regardless if it was drugs, regardless if you were dealing with depression,

People deal with that every day. It was a choice you made not to get help. Samaya Jones, the victim's cousin. She had trouble even talking about it when it was her turn. I can't like when we speak right now because it's so hard to process everything to be going on. Take your time. Especially like when we deal with other problems and it's just like everything is so hard to process right now. I'm shaking, trying to talk, especially, like, just sitting here in front of her skin up, it's hard.

And waking up, like, every morning and realizing what's really happening that it's true and that it's no breaking their back is really hard to do with it. Is there anything else you'd like to say to the board? I just wanted to ask Tiffany, did you ever? ever love your voice did you ever like how long have you been playing this because I don't really think that you'll be able to do this somebody that you love especially with you being their mama you're not supposed to do it to see your own kids I don't have to use myself but I know this you're supposed to protect you and protect you

The next witness, Nikki Gregory, was Jaden's stepmother, and she also blasted Tiffany Lucas for refusing to allow anyone else to step in and help her care for the six and nine-year-olds, because if that was the case, maybe they would still be alive. I have been in Jayden's life since he was six months old. Well, I'm thankful for the time I had with him. It was too short. My daughter, Charlie Howard, is four years old, and she has already lost her father, and he took her only brother. Both very tragic. Now I have to explain what happens in him by the hands of his own mother. I enjoy dropping him off and picking him up from school.

I enjoy playing his favorite songs on the way home. I would cherish our family vacation. at the beach. He was so scared of the ocean waves and all he wanted to do was go to the pool and he swam so much that he would be asleep before the sun went down. I will miss his smile and his laugh. While I was pregnant, Jaden was very protective and loving of my stomach. He would rub and kiss it. He enjoyed being a big brother to little wreath, but now he was going to be a big brother to a little girl. My daughter will not be able to share any family vacation experiences. She will never be able to call him to tell him to come over and play with her. Now all she has are pictures and a dinosaur stuff animal he used to sleep with.

And now the pictures are going further and further back on my phone. Throughout the years, both sides of the family tried to help you with your drug addiction and your poor choices. Countless times. you have been neglecting them and both sides try to put those kids in a better place you want to play the crazy card you want to act like you couldn't handle life them boys had the support and love they needed

they didn't need you what you did was evil selfish and hateful there isn't anything the judge can sentence you to to make this easier them boys were innocent and I wish you were facing a death penalty You don't deserve to breathe the same air as us.

I wish they would bury you under the jail cell. You don't deserve a tombstone. You don't deserve to be remembered. But since that isn't an option, I hope the judge takes your freedom and never, ever gives it back. Now, the final witness was Maurice Baker, Sr. So this is the father to the little boy often called Reese. And he told the judge that he begged Tiffany Lucas to let him spend more time with his son,

but she refused. Every since my son was born, I begged Tiffany for my son with so many different occasions because a drug used the prostitution that she did and the other way she had them in the harmful situation.

I didn't just lose my November the 8th. I lost my son really the days was born because every century was born. She held my son over my head. I begged her so many times to keep it mad at harmful situations. Yeah, I cursed her.

I threatened her. I did a lot. But only on the behalf of my son. I begged her. She knew it. It's simple drug abuse as though. It's manipulation. I called around.

There's not nobody. I haven't called and talked from my family to her family that haven't heard about me asking for my son and wondering what's going on with him. She kept him from me for a year straight. So many birthdays he missed. I have a party plan. She never let him come. I begged the last message, the last time I'll text her. I beg to ask him, please. I just talked to my son.

She ignored me. I'm asked to let the court give with a maximum punishment. I'd never see my son again. Jay and family never see them again. Anything less than a maximum punishment. For her doing this to them would be unjust.

They don't have a second chance. She chose to take drugs, put them in that situation. There was people begging for those kids, not just me as a father. It's aunties, cousins, her family members. Of course she had a breakdown. Methamphetamine does that.

Opioids does that. You took the choice to do those drugs. I've been in prison before. I took in, for the consequences, choices I've made, I suffered consequences. She need consequences. She's always been able to manipulate. Now, maybe not surprisingly,

No one spoke on behalf of Tiffany Lucas. And I will tell you, during closing arguments, the defense team seemed to argue that despite her mental health struggles, Tiffany Lucas was a good mom. As you can imagine, that got snickers from the gallery. And also, there was an admonishment from the judge. Tiffany Lucas was a devoted mother. who showed her love for her children. Folks, folks, this is a court of law. Outburst will not be tolerated.

Now, you cannot maintain your composure. On the other side presents their argument. I'm going to ask you to leave now. I don't want to hold anybody in contempt. That's not what needs to happen at this point. And after some reflection, Judge Rodney Burris had his decision. A mother is more than the giving of life. It's providing food, clothing, shelter, but more importantly, love and security.

I cannot imagine the sheer horror these children must have experienced seeing their mother with a gun. The sheer horror that second child had had had seen her heard of the children. discharge of that weapon for the first child and maybe even both of them seeing their mother pull the trigger taking their life. Count one, the court will judge the defendant guilty of the offense of murder and fix her sentence at life in prison. On count two, the court will judge the defendant guilty of the offense of murder and fix her sentence at life in prison. In the end, Lucas will become eligible for parole after serving the first 20 years of her sentence, and this is a part of Kentucky Commonwealth law that has surprised a lot of people.

Kentucky's method of incarceration for felony offenses is what's referred to as indeterminate sentencing. It can be somewhat difficult to follow if you don't deal with it every day. But ultimately, court has to assume that the components of the judicial system, which includes the executive branch's parole board, will be followed to the laws. After court adjourned, Bobby Baker spoke with. with our photographer reiterating her promise to be at any and all parole hearings that Lucas might have in the future. She should have gotten more. Life is 20 years. So in 20 years, she'll go up for parole and I'll be there. She had support from every one of us, including my brother's girlfriend.

Like, she has support. You had a psychotic break because you did meth. Let's tell it what it is. You all can paint this. I had a horrible childhood. We can paint this picture all we want to. Yes, things happen in childhood, but you made the decision to take their life. You did that. And the only reason I feel out, I feel like she decided on the move they made today and allowing a judge to sentence her versus a jury is because she could have ended up

but more time. I know what it is for her. that's why I spoke directly to her and she knows I'm not playing she didn't deserve them and like I told the judge before when they took custody you will ruin them and that's what happened

the only piece I happen is knowing that you can't hurt them anymore and I'll piss nobody's going to ever be able to fix my brother's heart nobody can fix that so clearly just a tragic senseless loss of life that had ripple effects

through multiple families and the community that's all we have for you right now here on sidebar everybody thank you so much for joining us please subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jesse Weber. I'll speak to you next time.