Law&Crime Sidebar - Former FBI Agent Reacts to Raid on Trump’s Mar-a-Lago Home

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Starting point is 00:00:35 will keep you on the edge of your seat. Don't let your fears take hold of you as you dive into this addictive series. Love thrillers with a paranormal twist? The entire Oracle trilogy is available on Audible. Listen now on Audible. Supporters and critics of former President Donald Trump gather outside of Mara Lago, hours after the FBI executes a search warrant at the property. Reportedly, it has to do with documents from the National Archives, but is there more to this? I'm Annionette Levy, and welcome to this latest edition of Law and Crimes Sidebar podcast. Well, all of the news in the last 24 hours or so has been all about President Donald Trump, former President Donald Trump, and the fact that the FBI

Starting point is 00:01:27 went to Mara Lago on Monday and executed a search warrant. There were reportedly 30 FBI agents that were a part of this raid. President Trump actually broke the news. He broke the news of the raid on his own home by sending out a statement about it. He claimed that they had broken into his safe. Apparently 15 boxes of documents were taken. But there are a lot of questions about this. Why go in like this with a search warrant over documents into the home of a former sitting president. So joining us to talk about this, an expert in all things FBI related. Bobby Chaconne is a retired FBI agent and attorney. Bobby, welcome back to Sidebar. Thanks for joining us. Thank you, engineer. Thanks for having me. Bobby, what was your first reaction when you heard

Starting point is 00:02:14 about the raid on Mar-a-Lago? You know, my first reaction had to be, is this political? And when I heard 30 agents involved in a record search, I mean, when I used to do search warrants on dangerous drug houses as in New York City in the 80s and 90s, I didn't bring 30 agents with me. And so it really did strike me as having 30 agents going to a place where you'd probably going to run into Secret Service agents if the president is, the former president is there. You know, it just seemed a little bit like overkill. And then when the reporting started coming out that it probably had to do with classified documents, it puzzled me even more because that's not an unusual occurrence with former presidents.

Starting point is 00:02:56 and it's usually handled in a different way. I find it unusual only in that we had seen some news reports several months ago that the National Archives had already been to Mara Lago and had retrieved and obtained some documents and removed those. They apparently were saying that President Trump took a bunch of documents that he shouldn't have with him from the White House when he left. But 30 FBI agents, if you were already in discussions and you had already met with, with his attorneys about this and had retrieved other documents, why go in with the warrant?

Starting point is 00:03:31 I understand if it's classified material. You want to handle it very carefully and very sensitively, but why 30 agents? Yeah, and that's what puzzled me and most of my retired agents that we keep in touch with on a daily basis. And when these things happen, we ping each other and talk about it. And it really was surprising, particularly like you said, exactly what you pointed out. There had been ongoing negotiations with people of the National Archives. Trump did say, you know, it was chaotic when he left the White House and they made some mistakes and they packed up too much stuff and sent it all down. They went there. They retrieved them now. If it's a case where, you know, they retrieved six boxes and there were two more boxes left behind.

Starting point is 00:04:08 That just, that's solved by picking up the phone and starting no negotiations again. What a search warrant does is somebody in the FBI with the U.S. Attorney's Office, with the Justice Department, goes before federal magistrates, fills out an affidavit. swears to the affidavit that says, we believe a crime, a federal crime has been committed, and we believe evidence of that crime is located in this place that we want to search. So I'm trying to figure out if they've now trying to go after Trump with a classified documents crime. Now, technically there are some crimes, but, you know, presidents have done this in the past and cabinet level secretaries have been accused of doing this in the past, and it's never

Starting point is 00:04:47 been prosecuted at this level, at somebody at this high as a former president. So it really does, you know, like you pointed out, the fact that this, the classified document topic has already been discussed. The National Archives have been in negotiations with Trump's people. They've been there. They've retrieved some of them. If it's a fact that they didn't retrieve all of them, then a simple phone call and reignite those negotiations takes place, not 30 FBI agents, you know, showing up and trying to execute a search warrant unless there's more to it. Yeah, and that was my question as well. You know, all of the reporting has been that this had to do with classified documents.

Starting point is 00:05:27 Obviously, we would all love to see the search warrant. None of us have a copy of it. None of us have seen it. But they do, as you mentioned, have to outline why they need this warrant, why they have to be able to enter somebody's property without consent. And that is laying out that they believe. they have probable cause, which is a low threshold, they believe that a crime has been committed. So what else could there be? Is there more in that warrant that we don't know about? And I bring this up

Starting point is 00:05:56 because even if like they seize other items that are of interest with these classified documents, doesn't that have to be outlined within the scope of the warrant? It has to say we're looking for all of these items or related items and in order to seize them and in order for them to be used in court? Well, there is a specificity requirement in the Constitution for search warrants that you have to outline specifically what you're looking for, and you can't look anywhere that that item could not be. So even within the premises that you're searching, you can't, if you're looking for a car, you can't look in a closet, that kind of thing. And so, so yes, they have to outline. Now, even more important than the search warrant is the affidavit

Starting point is 00:06:39 that supports the search warrant that's set out by an FBI and saying, here's how I know, Here's why I think this evidence is located there. But make no mistake, if they're there on a valid search warrant looking for documents and they see evidence of another crime, for example, if President Trump is under investigation for the January 6 riots and they could find evidence there that tie him to the violence at the Capitol on January 6th, they can seize that and they can use it. They can charge him then later with crimes based on that evidence that was seized, even though that evidence wasn't outlined in the original warrant.

Starting point is 00:07:17 That's the plain view doctrine. They can do that. Now, there are people who believe that that's exactly what happened in this case, that they went in on pretext. They knew they probably had enough to justify the classified documents warrant. They didn't have enough to justify the January 6th warrant. And so they went in under the guise of the classified documents warrant, but really they were they looking for possible connections

Starting point is 00:07:41 to the January 6 violence. So you think that there was a pretext here, that they knew the classified documents may have been there. Let's go in and look for that. But maybe there are some other things of interest that we will find. I believe there could be in the context of what's happening now. We are very close to the midterm elections. There's a lot of politicking going on right now. The January 6th Commission looks desperate to charge Trump with a crime related to the January 6th events. And so, you know, there could be politics at play here. I'm not saying that I know for sure that there is, but it really puzzles me why 30 agents would

Starting point is 00:08:18 show up on a document, basically a document search that could have been handled through a phone call from the National Archives because this very topic had been dealt with previously. And it was dealt with seemingly satisfactory. Now, if there was additional documents they didn't get in the first go-round, which, by the way, Trump's camp gave up voluntarily after negotiating. Why not use that same strategy now? Why not pick up the phone and say, hey, we think you have even more stuff than you gave us back.

Starting point is 00:08:45 Can we come and take a look? That wasn't done. They chose a different route. The question is why they chose this much more intrusive route, much more, you know, aggressive route. And I think it's interesting that you bring up the political aspect of this. The possibility, and we don't know, but the possibility that there could be politics at play here.

Starting point is 00:09:07 We don't know that. obviously we all know that January 6th was a terrible, terrible day in this country's history. We saw what happened with people entering the Capitol. Thank goodness, nobody was seriously injured. I know that one of the officers later passed away, but it was determined, I don't think it was related to January 6th from what I had read after the autopsy was complete. But I just think it's interesting that Liz Cheney had said in the last week or so that there was more information available to the January 6th committee that pertain to the possibility of crimes being committed other than what we already know, other than what's already out there in the public sphere?

Starting point is 00:09:49 So we really don't know what Liz Cheney was specifically referring to. She makes some very general statements about possibly have the committee having information that we, the public, doesn't have, that maybe the Justice Department has. Hopefully they've shared it with the Justice Department. But she's urging the Justice Department if there's evidence there. Now, there is some evidence that about fraud crimes and, you know, nonviolent crimes that they might be able to put on on Trump. Now, they're probably hesitant to do that because that's considered an overplay of your hand. These things are not routinely prosecuted. And so, you know, I think what the committee and what the Justice Department wants to do is get Trump on something much

Starting point is 00:10:29 more serious. Because if they have the evidence of that other stuff, and believe me, the January 6th committee has been going on for a long time. They've heard from a lot. lot of witnesses. If they don't have the information now, going into Trump's house is not going to get you the smoking gun, in my opinion, that you need. If you have all of these other witnesses testify, you should have enough already to bring charges. So in my mind, that also leads to the pretext theory that this could be looking for something else, because certainly the January 6th committee has done its work. They've heard from dozens, if not hundreds of witnesses. They've seen many, many documents. And if the case isn't there now, I don't know how much more you're

Starting point is 00:11:09 going to get looking for classified documents at Marlago. Well, we will follow it closely. We will continue to keep a close eye on it. Bobby Chacon, retired FBI agent and attorney. Thanks so much again for coming on Sidebar. And that's it for this edition of Law and Crime's Sidebar podcast. It is produced by Sam Goldberg and Michael Dininger. Bobby Zoki is our YouTube manager. Kiera Bronson handles our social media and Alyssa Fisher is our booking producer. You can download and find Law and Crime Sidebar on a number of platforms including Apple, Spotify, Google, and any other place you get your podcast. Also, you can watch the podcast on our YouTube channel. I'm Ann Jeanette Levy and we will see you next time.

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Law&Crime Sidebar - Former FBI Agent Reacts to Raid on Trump’s Mar-a-Lago Home

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