Law&Crime Sidebar - Idaho Student Murders: 5 Most Damning Pieces of Evidence Against Bryan Kohberger

Episode Date: November 15, 2023

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Wondery Plus subscribers can binge all episodes of this Law and Crimes series ad-free right now. Join Wondry Plus in the Wondery app Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Agent Nate Russo returns in Oracle 3, Murder at the Grandview, the latest installment of the gripping Audible Original series. When a reunion at an abandoned island hotel turns deadly, Russo must untangle accident from murder. But beware, something sinister lurks in the grand. View Shadows. Joshua Jackson delivers a bone-chilling performance in this supernatural thriller

that will keep you on the edge of your seat. Don't let your fears take hold of you as you dive into this addictive series. Love thrillers with a paranormal twist? The entire Oracle trilogy is available on Audible. Listen now on Audible. A criminal complaint was filed yesterday here in Laetaw County, charging the defendant, Mr. Coleberger with four counts of first-degree murder in addition to felony burglary. It has been a year since four University of Idaho students were viciously stabbed to death in a rental home near campus, but what is the prosecution have in their case

against accused killer Brian Coburger? We sit down with Brian Enton, senior national correspondent for News Nation, to talk about the most damning pieces of evidence in the case. Welcome to Sidebar, presented by law and crime. I'm Jesse Weber. We have covered this case extensively. here on Sidebar, and it is one that has captured the attention of the entire world.

It's kind of strange to think that it has been a full year since all this happened, but on November 13, 2022, Ethan Chapin, Zana Kurnodal, Kayla Gonzalez, and Madison Mogan were all found stabbed to death inside of a large off-campus rental house at the University of Idaho. Two other roommates were unharmed. There was a massive police investigation as basically the entire Moscow police. police department started looking for who could have done this. And it really rocked the entire community. And after about six weeks after the murders, police arrested 28-year-old Washington State

University doctoral student Brian Coburger at his parents' home in Pennsylvania where he was spending Christmas break. He was actually a criminology student at the time. Now, they extradited him back to Idaho, charged him with four counts of first-degree murder and one count of burglary. A grand jury looked over the evidence that prosecutors collected. And indicted Brian Koberger, the state announced that it will be seeking the death penalty. And Ms. Taylor, is Mr. Koberger prepared to plead to these charges? What are we will be standing silent? Coburger's legal team announced he was standing silent and Judge John Judge entered a not guilty plea on his behalf.

Koberger also decided to waive his right to a speedy trial, which blew apart any chance of this trial starting in October as originally planned. The accused killer is behind bars in the small. town of Moscow, Idaho, currently awaiting trial. But the question now is, how strong is the actual evidence against him? All to answer that, let me bring in Brian Enton, News Nation senior national correspondent who has been covering this case from the very beginning. Brian is actually in Idaho. One year later, Brian, it's great to see you. First off, what is it like being back there? And it's hard to imagine. Just one year has gone by. Pretty incredible. Yeah, it's really weird to think about it. Sorry, we're actually driving now. My producer's driving. We're driving over to where there's

going to be a vigil on campus later today. But yeah, it just feels kind of surreal. You know, I think the town is still very much like coping with everything, especially since, you know, the legal process is ongoing. The trial has been delayed. They thought maybe it would happen this year. It's now not happening. So it's kind of like everyone here is in this weird limbo. Like they want to try and move on somewhat, but it's really hard to do. do that when, you know, Brian Kohlberger is in the jail here and there's still this long court process ahead. Yeah, it's a little bit of a strange feeling. I'll tell you the first, I didn't think that a year from when he was arrested, we were going to see a trial. I'm not

surprised by that. This case is quite complex. The death penalty eligible case, I think there's a lot at stake here. And that's what I wanted to bring you on, because if anybody knows about the evidence in this case, it is you. You've been doing terrific reporting. So let's go through some of the evidence here and what to make of it. I'm going to start with the DNA. Arguably, one of the biggest pieces of evidence that we know the prosecutors have against Koeberger. He's, of course, innocent until proven guilty, but the Laita County prosecutors, they need to have the goods if they were going to win the case. And you talk about the DNA. We know that authorities were able to make a familial match from the DNA on a knife sheath found

at the crime scene to Koberger's father. They did this by collecting trash from outside the Kovberger home in Pennsylvania. And then after Coburger was arrested, authorities took a cheek swab from him. And then the court documents reveal that the DNA recovered from the sheath is almost an identical match to Coburger. But Brian, the defense has been saying not so fast, right? They're saying that there's been a lot of fighting between the prosecutors and the defense over what's called investigative genetic genealogy or IGG. Can you walk us through it? Yeah, it's a new science. It's really interesting, the IGG, the investigative genetic genealogy. We were actually just in Idaho, like about a week ago for hearing about it.

The judge acknowledged, like, in Idaho, the way it was used in this case, he believes is totally, you know, unprecedented. So they're still trying to figure out how the science works in terms of, like, the judge is educating himself, the defense and prosecution. But basically what happened is when they got the knife sheath from the crime scene, they had it processed for, DNA and then they put the DNA that they found on the knife sheath in these databases, these genetic genealogy databases. So when they went initially and got the DNA off of the knife sheath, they then put it into these databases and searched for anyone connected, that might have a family member, any sort of connection within a certain radius to Moscow, Idaho. So it started very, very broad all of these distant family members of Brian Coburger. And then they said, okay,

who can we find that would connect to these people that lives in the area? And that is how it appears that they narrowed it down to Brian Coburger. But there's been a lot of fighting because the prosecution is concerned about all of the names within the database because all of these people who may not even realize that their distant relatives of the Kobergers were part of the database that led and led them to figure out that it connected to Koberger, if that makes sense. Hey there, everybody. I want to talk to you about something that I am super excited about.

Jedmatch is now sponsoring Sidebar. Many of our true crime fans will know exactly who they are. I actually interviewed their co-founder a few years back. Had a chance to meet them at CrimeCon, what I tell you? I think they had like the most popular booth there. aside from ours, of course, but it was truly insane how many people were at their table. Jedmatch is the largest public DNA database, and since 2018, they have played a crucial role in helping law enforcement solve over a thousand cases. I'm talking the Golden State Killer,

the NorCal rapist, the buckskin girl. And you know what? It is really all due to you because you take a DNA test, you upload the data to Jedmatch, and you become a genetic witness helping identify serial killers or unknown descendants. It's 100% free to sign up and upload. And you also get all of these tools for your own genetic genealogy research, which is really cool. This is just a unique way that true crime fans can actually fight crime. So if you want to learn more about the genetic witness program and how to join Jedmatch, head over to www.gatjadmatch.com slash sidebar or click the link in the description. So, Brian, one of the things that I think is really interesting. And my understanding is the judge has set a deadline of December 1st to get all

of this DNA evidence in, to look at it, to see what can be used. There were actually some arguments that were made at a motions hearing on August 18th about this. Well, my understanding was that the state did provide all the information about the laboratory, we'll say a laboratory DNA that was, that analysis was not related. to the genealogy being am I mistaken about that? What are you saying that they didn't provide time? Your Honor, in our

third motion, it can tell we had a section called standard lab discovery and that has to do with other DNA profiles down at the scene. They have provided full discovery for the sheet,

the DNA come on the night sheet, but not the other three unidentified male DNA samples to go and the house one from outside of that. All right, so if I'm understanding your question there or your assertion that we're talking about three potential analysis of DNA that was not provided to you, but that has a no connection to Mr. COVID. Correct. Any response? Your Honor, we didn't realize this is going to be an issue that we had given

the defense everything that we received from the lab. They've asked for DNA workups on other people to the extent that they don't have them. They weren't done. We can't produce something that doesn't exist. We provide everything. There's one outstanding lab report that relates to the forensic examination by the lab personnel of crime scene itself will be received the day. That's the only

outstanding lab report. Everything else long, all the notes, is what there is, and it's been fired for defense. They're hoping that there's something else there. It's not there. You know, I'm looking at this, and I'm trying to think how much of a slam dunk is the DNA evidence, because, Brian, it's my understanding. I've heard

the defense may argue that this was a party house, that of course Brian Coburger was at the house. No wonder his DNA. would be there and it's possible there was other people's DNA maybe at that crime scene. Am I understanding that correctly?

Yeah, absolutely. And we, you know, we've known from the beginning that it's a party house that a lot of people went in and out of the house. The neighbors told us that from the beginning. What we don't know is if Brian Koeberger has ever been to that house before.

You know, there's so much with the gag order and the evidence that we don't know about at this point. And I think that could something that could possibly come out at the trial if they can prove that Brian Coburger had been to that house before for parties or something. We have no reason to think that. But if that's the case, I think that could play into for sure the defense. I want to move on to the second, what I think is a huge piece of evidence. It's Brian Koberger's cell phone pinging. What are some of the key pieces that prosecutors are going to go

hone in on here? Well, yeah, in the probable cause affidavit, it makes very clear that that Koberger's cell phone pinged multiple times near the crime scene around the time of the murders, and that then it went away and then came back. There's some speculation, like, was he concerned that he left the knife sheath there? And that's why he went back. We don't know. But his cell phone definitely pinged in that area. And what's interesting is the cell phone, according to detectives,

appears to have been turned off around the time of the actual murders, which, why would the phone be turned off right at that time? That's definitely something that the prosecution, like, you know, highlighted in their probable cause affidavit. Hohberger's defense has said that Hohberger liked to go for basically like drives and joy rides and, you know, would drive around in the night. Is that going to be like a possible defense or alibi? We don't know, but that's something that his defense has said in filings. And let me amplify that a little bit. So you're right.

I mean, they say then they look at the cell phone technology, which, by the way, in any case, defense attorneys will try to poke holes and how accurate is it. But what it seems to suggest is that he was pinged at his apartment in Pullman, Washington just before 3 a.m. on the morning of the murders. The house is about 10, 15 minutes away from the King Road home. The phone, like you said, the connection disappeared, came on two hours later, which, like you said, it looks like maybe it was possible that he might have turned it off. But it comes on again at 5.30 a.m.

I think it's also interesting because you look at his phone GPS and it pinged at or near that house at least 12 times before November 13th, which again, even if you go with that alibi that he was, you know, he took late night drives. He drove around the area. It's only 10, 15 minutes away. Maybe he went to nearby bars. The fact that he was near the home, I think is peculiar. Yeah, will it come out that he was, you know, like stocking the house, watching things. things there? Is that why he was driving by so many times before? I mean, we don't know that that's the reason, but they're very specific with the Pings. And, you know, that's obvious. I mean, that was a big part of the probable cause affidavit. So, you know, and the fact that the phone was

turned off. And a lot of, you know, the defense attorneys, like the, you know, the experts who I've interviewed over the last year, that's something that they always seem to, like, highlight saying, you know, that's not good offense, that they feel like that's one of the big issues with the defense. Why was the phone turned off at the exact times of the murders? Suspicious, suspicious. I will tell you, it seems to me, the only way they can prove that alibi would either be Coburg or testifying and saying this is what he did, he would drive around, or be witnesses saying, yeah, I knew his abbots. I didn't think, you know, it's the phone records, phone records can only show so much, but they will call witnesses to say this is

what his pattern is. Have you heard anything like that about who the defense might call to prove this alibi? No. And we've, you know, in all of our reporting, I've never really come across anyone in Idaho or in Washington where he was going to school and where he was getting his Ph.D. that like was his friend or that hung out with him or that went on drives with him or that went out drinking with him. Like we've never come across anyone. like that it's always people who like oh yeah he was in my class and he was kind of odd so like if there is a friend out there that can corroborate you know that he likes to drive around and stuff we we haven't come across anyone like that let's uh move on to the third piece of major evidence against brian

coberger the car where we know that just about what was it two weeks after the murders police announced that they were looking for this white Hyundai alantra it was like one of the only pieces of information that they released during the early part of the investigation Why is the car so important, Brian? Yeah, and that's all that they had to go on, at least with what they were telling the media for so long. So every day in the beginning, just coming out over and over again, I'm saying, if you've seen the Elantra, if you've seen the Elantra, basically it was spotted around the house. There's even some surveillance video of a right near where the house is, where you can see the car driving by.

And they say that they've, you know, connected the Elantra to being at or near the crime scene at the time of the murders. Again, there's a lot we don't know because of the gag order and because so many of the documents are sealed. Like, it's so frustrating with the reporting because, you know, we'll read one paragraph and then the rest will be blacked out. There's a lot we don't know. But from what I've read, it doesn't seem like they found any physical evidence inside the Elantra when they processed it. Again, that could just be blacked out. That could be part of the gag order. But we know that based on surveillance video, they did convince.

connected the car, that car type, to being in and around the area of the house where the murders happened. Yeah, they say the car passed the home like four times between 329 a.m. and 404m. They say that the car was speeding away 16 minutes after that time, so right around after the killings. And then you mentioned how they matched it up to him because a Washington State University officer spotted this white Hyundai Alontera in the parking lot of the apartment complex near campus. The car was registered to Coburger. And then one of the pieces of evidence, I don't think people talk about enough, Brian. And correct me if I'm wrong, is that later on in the day of the killings, like in the afternoon, there's surveillance footage from

an Albertson's where you see Brian Coburger exiting that car, the White Hyundai Alantra. So the idea that he could come back and say, somebody else was driving my car. I don't know. Yeah, exactly. And the Albertson's trip is one of the big middle. histories. Like, there's so many things with this case that I think are going to come out in trial that we still don't know. And that's one of the things. And even interviewing Kaylee Gonzalez's parents a couple weeks ago, that's something that they're really interested in because we don't know what police know about him going to that store, what he was buying. That's still like one of the things that everyone is really, really curious about. But yeah, it's going to be hard for, I mean, he has that kind of car. So it's going to be hard for him to really distance himself, I think, from the car. And you mentioned, the police officer in Washington State, spotting it in the parking lot. I'm also very curious, like, the timeline

behind the scenes, we still don't know, you know, based on the genetic genealogy and what they were mapping out and tracing it down to Coburger, it's still a little gray of like, you know, did they know that they thought it was Coburger at that time? Did the cop

just happen to spot the car? Like, we still don't know a lot. I'm very curious what they knew and when, because covering it in real time. It was like, we know nothing. We know nothing. Then when the documents came out, we realized like they knew a lot, but we still don't know the exact timeline of what they knew and when. That's a great point. That's a great point because we also know that Coburger and his father that were driving this white Honda launcher from Washington to Pennsylvania in the weeks before his arrest. Oh, Coburgers pulled over twice by law enforcement for speeding and tailgating. Here's a

sample of that. Hello. How are you doing? How are you doing today? Good, good. Take one with your lines in real quick, do I could? See, he's right up on that van, man. You're right up on the back end of that van. I hold you over for tailgating. Is this your car? Okay. And yeah, like another example, how that's going to fit into the overall case, the timeline.

I couldn't agree with you more. Brian, I know your time is limited, so I want to go to this fourth piece of evidence. Some would say the biggest bombshell in the probable cause affidavit, a piece of evidence that I am not sure how it's ultimately going to play out. And that is according to the affidavit that one of the roommates, who was unharmed in the attack, says that she may have actually seen the suspect the night of the murders. So the King Roadhouse, three floors, the attacks happened on the second and third floors.

One of the surviving roommates, Dylan Mortensen, she has a room, told investigators that she woke up around 4 a.m. to hear some sort of noise, thought she heard Kaylee Gonzalez say that there's someone here, that Mortensen claimed that she, she, She opened the door. She heard someone crying and a male voice saying, It's okay, I'm going to help you. She then said that she opened the door again after she heard more crying and saw a person

wearing black clothing and a mask that covered their mouth and nose walking towards her, didn't recognize the person, thought he was maybe five foot 10 or taller male, not very muscular, but athletically built. And one of the key identifiers that he had bushy eyebrows. And so she says that she was frozen in shock, went back into her room, 9-1-1 wasn't called until the next day. There's been a lot of criticism, and I think unfair criticism,

about Dylan Mortensen and Bethany Funk, you know, about what happened, their role that they played. How do you think that they're going to be witnesses at this upcoming trial? Because there's a lot of pressure on them to testify, and there's already a lot of pressure on them. Yeah, I mean, I agree with what you said.

I really feel for them. I hate, you know, the articles that come out that are critical of them because I can't imagine being in their situation. And also, like, going back to the point of what we said about it being a party house. And, you know, they're all in college and there were people coming and going from that house all the time. Like, you know, did she know that he was a, you know, the person that was the murderer? I mean, or did she just think there was a creepy guy walking in the house?

And was she half asleep? Had they been out drinking? Who knows? But, yeah, she gave kind of that vague description. The bushy eyebrows was, you know, one of the more descriptive things that she said. And she, you know, that we had no preliminary hearing in this case. because it was a grand jury indictment. So we haven't actually heard from her, like on the witness stand.

We haven't been able to, you know, read the statements that she gave police besides just the basics and the probable cause. Remember, there was that issue where they wanted to try to call her in to be interviewed. And she made some kind of deal with the public defender to, they went out and talked to her out of state where she was staying. So she's clearly got a story that she is telling. and an account of what happened that she is telling that we don't know yet besides those basics of what you said. Does she have even more specifics

that are going to come out? I think that's possible. Was it probably just a dark shadow? We figure with bushy eyebrows and she was maybe like half asleep. Yet I think that that's probably more likely the case because I think if there were more important descriptive elements,

I would have thought they would have put that in the probable cause to kind of meet it up a little bit. But again, another one of the things that I'm super fascinated with that we just don't have a lot of info on yet. And look, I'll tell you, I'm concerned that even though she could be compelled to testify, she may try every which way not to. This is, we've heard reports that she's switched universities, that she's racked with survivors guilt. There's all this online pressure. You mentioned what happened with, you know, the defense coming to question her.

If she goes on that stand, the defense is going to intensely question her. And I just, she's in such a sensitive state. Do you think there's a possibility of the prosecution, with all the other evidence they have, they may not ask her as a witness? I mean, she's important, but they may not want to do that to her. I think it's possible. I think they probably will, though. I mean, that's just my feeling. And I also wonder if some of the reporting is over.

I mean, obviously she has survivors guilt and is going through hell. But, you know, I've talked to some family members of the victims who have been in touch with her, who, you know, they've spoken with her. You know, I don't know if some of that is being a little old. overplayed in terms of her, you know, basically just being this like basket case or something. Like I, you know, I think she's obviously going through it, but I don't, I haven't done any reporting where I've found out that she is like, you know, just unable to speak kind of thing. That's fair. I'm glad you mentioned that.

Brian, before we let you go, these were like, I would say four of the biggest pieces of evidence against Brian Coburger. How much more do you think they have against him, prosecutors, that we, just don't know about yet. You touched upon it a little bit, but is there something from their searches of his property or his belongings that you think we don't know about yet that could play a critical role in the upcoming trial? You know, I think there's going to be, I really think there's going to be other bombshell evidence. I really do. Like, you know, we've heard the reporting about him going through the trash with the gloves on. Like, I think some of that

stuff is going to come out officially. I just think there's a lot of like, I think they laid out the basics and there's going to be a lot of detail um and i just i think back to even like the valo trial there were like a few bombshells that came out there that had never surfaced until the trial like i i really think that's going to happen um in this case and i also think we're going to see bombshells from the defense i mean i think you know he's got a very capable attorney i mean i go to almost every hearing um she's a smart woman you know she's not like i mean she they're you know they're coming up with things too I think behind the scenes.

So I go back to the genetic genealogy. I'm very interested to see the way that plays out. I mean, you're a lawyer. Maybe you could explain this a little better. But like, if they can poke holes in that, what does that mean? Does that mean that all the evidence that they figured out because of the genetic genealogy could possibly be thrown out? Like, they seem to be very focused on that IGG right now.

Well, the part that I think is going to be interesting. Yeah, the part that I still am not. clear about is how it was used to pinpoint Coburger. I know they say it wasn't used as a basis for a search warrant. I just don't understand what the connection was and that has to be clarified. So if the defense can poke holes and like the linkage of evidence and the chain of evidence and we call like fruit of the poisonous tree, that is something that was definitely going to be explored. And look, I think it's going to be a fascinating trial between the prosecution, the defense. We're kind of give a little bit of a sampling of it. And, you know,

with your terrific reporting, Brian, we're going to probably find out more details before a jury has even sworn in. So Brian Enton, out in Idaho. Thank you so much. And as always, good to see you and great reporting. Thanks, Jesse. Thanks for having me on. All right, everybody. That is all we have for you right now here on Sidebar. Thank you so much for joining us. Please subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, wherever you get your podcast. I'm Jesse Weber. Speak to you next time. You can binge all episodes of this law and crime series ad free right now on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.