Law&Crime Sidebar - Idaho Student Murders: How DNA Poses a Challenge to the Investigation

Episode Date: December 7, 2022

On Wednesday, authorities removed items belonging to the four University of Idaho students who were murdered in their college home on November 13. The Law&Crime Network's Sierra Gillespie and Angenette Levy break down what this means for the investigation with former death investigator Joseph Scott Morgan.LAW&CRIME SIDEBAR PRODUCTION:YouTube Management - Bobby SzokePodcasting - Sam GoldbergVideo Editing - Logan HarrisGuest Booking - Alyssa FisherSocial Media Management - Kiera BronsonSUBSCRIBE TO OUR OTHER PODCASTS:Court JunkieObjectionsThey Walk Among AmericaCoptales and CocktailsThe Disturbing TruthSpeaking FreelyLAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandcrime/Twitter: https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetworkFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawandcrimeTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lawandcrimenetworkTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lawandcrimeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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with DNA collection? Long crime sidebar co-host, Anjanette Levy, joins us live from Idaho, along with forensic death investigator Joseph Scott Morgan for the latest in this high-profile case. Welcome to Sidebar presented by Law and Crime. I'm Sierra Gillespie. We're now approaching one month since four University of Idaho students were stabbed to death in their off-campus home. Weeks after the grisly crime, investigators still have not made any arrests or identified any suspects. But even as the investigation continues full steam ahead, Idaho, officials are headed back into the active crime scene to retrieve the victim's personal items. We're at that point in the investigation where we're still gathering information. We're still

gathering tips. We're still gathering evidence. We're still doing everything we need to do. But there also comes a point in time when the family needs to have those belongings. Those victims, 21-year-old Kaylee Gonzalez, 21-year-old Madison Mogan, 20-year-old Zana Carnodal, and 20-year-old Ethan Chapin arrived to an off-campus home at about 1.45 a.m. on November 13. Gonzalves and Mogan had visited a bar that night and later food truck in downtown Moscow, while Chapin and Carnotel went to an event at the Sigma Chi fraternity on campus. Hours after their arrival at 1158 a.m., a surviving roommate called 911 to report an unconscious person. Investigators then found all four students brutally stabbed to death.

To break down this new movement in the case, we're joined by Sidebar co-host, Angenet Levy, who is on the scene in Moscow, Idaho, and, of course, forensic death investigator Joseph Scott Morgan, who has been following the case since the very beginning. Thank you both so much for joining us today. Thank you. Thanks. Okay, Anjanet, let's start with you. We've gotten word that investigators are headed back into the crime scene to get some of these

victims' personal items. What can you tell us about this? This was an announcement, Sierra, that was made yesterday. afternoon, Tuesday afternoon. The chief put a message on Facebook, James Frye, saying that they were going to go into the home. He and his command staff. They're not here just yet, but there is private security guarding this active crime scene. And he said that it was important that he be involved in this. He believed that the family members would want their loved ones personal belongings. He didn't elaborate on what exactly that meant. But they will be

entering this crime scene. It has been processed already. It's still. an active crime scene. It's under police protection, under security. It's been secured 24 hours a day since this happened. So it's kind of interesting that they're choosing to enter this active crime scene in order to retrieve those personal belongings for the victim's families. He said that they're doing this in coordination with the families and they'll be putting these items in a secure location until the families want to come and retrieve them. So this is a daunting task to really go back in there into this house where people were slaughtered and retrieved these items. And Joseph Scott Morgan, let's switch now to you.

Idaho officials have been clear that the murder scene is still active. We just heard that from Ann Jeanette. Could re-entering this home to get these personal items cause issues with DNA or evidence collection? Well, my assumption is that they have already collected everything that they see as being of value at this point in time. And this evidence is very, very fragile, you know, when you think about it. You've got a couple of different types of DNA that are in play here. Of course, we have the sources of the blood from the bodies. That's a source of very rich DNA sample contained therein.

But then you have touch DNA, which is much more fragile. And of course, nowadays, it's something that investigators look to. You can turn that around pretty quickly. And it's only a partial strand. But, you know, going back to removal of these items, you can never go back in and replace those items. So you're taking it out of context at that point in time. from the perspective of having a pristine scene.

You know, in my mind, the only thing I can think of is that they've documented everything, they've collected everything at this point in time, or they wouldn't be taking that step. But, you know, when we look back, you know, we're just coming off covering the Parkland case. And remember that school in particular, they kept that locked down for years. That was a very brutal scene, admittedly. This, again, you know, my friend, Anjanette used the term slaughter. I'd go there. This was a slaughter.

And so it's a very fragile environment. And you're introducing these individuals into the house to collect these items and take them out and hand them over to the families. I hope that they have certainly documented and collected every bit of evidence off of these items. And Joseph Scott, what can you tell us about the actual evidence inside the home? I mean, this is a college house with many people living inside and others coming to visit in and out. If I'd had to guess, I would say there's lots of DNA in. inside, even likely the killers could be in there. So could all that information make the investigation even harder? Yeah, isn't that amazing? You know, when you think about it, you know, you think,

well, wow, we've got this evidence-rich environment. We're going to be able to get this thing shut down really quick, you know, come to a conclusion. And it's amazing, many times the more data you have, the more complex the case becomes, because they essentially have to unspool everything. And it's a great point that you make because, you know, this place has been identified as a gathering place. And so most people in their day-to-day lives don't think about just touching surfaces and going through the motions and that sort of thing. But every time you touch something, you leave a trace behind. And in this particular case, if you have people coming and going, they're leaving these

kind of slough skin cells everywhere. That's where we get touched DNA. And then we think about the victims in this particular case and the DNA that was left behind as a result of blood. But you have to think about something else. if you had any of the individuals within the structure that lived there, that had intimate relationships with anybody else, that could provide, that could provide, you know, an evidence-rich source as well. And not to mention, you know, you brought up the idea of the perpetrator leaving behind DNA. And that's certainly the case.

You know, this was a frenzied killing. You have an individual that's using an edged weapon. I have seen cases, several cases, during the course of my career, where an edged weapon, where an edged weapon, weapon is involved. And the subject gets into such a frenzy when they're doing it, many times they'll actually injure themselves. And so you wind up commingling that DNA with the original source from the victims. And they have to unspool that as well. They have to type the blood. And then they have to try to identify the knowns versus the unknowns at that point, Tom. So yeah, it's very complex. And, Anjanet, let's head back to you. So you're there in Idaho.

nearly one month after these brutal murders, but it's still very fresh. What can you tell us about the reaction from the people there? It's interesting because I was talking to some students last night. We were out on the streets trying to get a feel for how the students are feeling. And really, a lot of people were terrified when this happened. Understandably so. They were given the option to go home and take classes virtually. And we actually met up with some people who are taking their classes virtually while they're here.

in Moscow, Idaho. So they are not going out. They are not going to class. I was told last night by one of the students, he believes in some of his classes they're either half full, maybe a third full, because so many people have opted not to return to campus after this happened and after the Thanksgiving break. So there are people who are still fearful, but there were people walking around last night, and it was dark out. So they feel that the school, the University of Idaho has done a good job with ramping up security. There are some people, though, who just simply didn't want to talk to us, and a lot of the female students I approached didn't want to talk on camera with us. And I think there's still some fear here, but some of the students said to me, you know, well, this was targeted or, you know, it was isolated or things like that.

So I think it's wise that everybody still remain vigilant because there's been a lot of back and forth about whether this was targeted or not. So I think there's still some fear here, but some people say they feel that there's been a good job done on getting that security in place. Some people, though, are still kind of saddened and freaked out by this, understandably so, because there hasn't been an arrest. And it could take some time for an arrest. There's a lot to go through. You're going to have to get that DNA testing back, the analysis. You're going to have to see if there's mixtures in there. Do interviews.

They've been conducting hundreds of interviews. So there will also be, I think, a lot of digital evidence in this case. They're going to have to go through all of the victim's social media accounts and phones. So that's often now a big piece of these investigations, especially involving young people. You're going to be going through all of their digital data, looking at who they've been talking to, where they've been, and trying to piece together what's called victimology. Thank you both for joining us today. We're hoping to have more answers into this unsolved case very soon.

You bet. No problem. Thanks, everyone. You can watch and listen to Long Crime Sidebar Podcast. on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, and wherever else you listen. I'll see you next time. You can binge all episodes of this long crime series

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