Law&Crime Sidebar - Idaho Student Murders: Narrowing Down Potential Suspects

Episode Date: November 30, 2022

Reporters of a stalker, the missing murder weapon and the unknown motive behind the brutal murders of four University of Idaho college students remain at the center of the ongoing investigation by authorities. The Law&Crime Network's Jesse Weber and legendary homicide detective Fil Waters speculate on what a potential suspect could look like.LAW&CRIME SIDEBAR PRODUCTION:YouTube Management - Bobby SzokePodcasting - Sam GoldbergVideo Editing - Logan HarrisGuest Booking - Alyssa FisherSocial Media Management - Kiera BronsonSUBSCRIBE TO OUR OTHER PODCASTS:Court JunkieObjectionsThey Walk Among AmericaCoptales and CocktailsThe Disturbing TruthSpeaking FreelyLAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandcrime/Twitter: https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetworkFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawandcrimeTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lawandcrimenetworkTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lawandcrimeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can binge all episodes of this Law and Crimes series ad-free right now. Join Wondry Plus in the Wondery app Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Agent Nate Russo returns in Oracle 3, Murder at the Grandview, the latest installment of the gripping Audible Original series. When a reunion at an abandoned island hotel turns deadly, Russo must untangle accident from murder. But beware, something sinister lurks in the grand. View Shadows. Joshua Jackson delivers a bone-chilling performance in this supernatural thriller

that will keep you on the edge of your seat. Don't let your fears take hold of you as you dive into this addictive series. Love thrillers with a paranormal twist? The entire Oracle trilogy is available on Audible. Listen now on Audible. And the type of knife that they're talking about is the United States Marine Corps K-bar. So when I saw this, my thought was, is that, is this person prior military. Reports of a stalker, the house is a target, and the activities of the victims hours before the killings, we get into the latest into the investigation into the University of Idaho murders with a claimed homicide detective Phil Waters.

Welcome to Sidebar, presented by Law and Crime. I'm Jesse Weber. Another day and still, no arrests nor suspects identified in the University of Idaho quadruple homicide case. I'm talking, of course, about the brutal killings of four. students, 21-year-old Kaley Gonzalez, 21-year-old Madison Mogan, 20-year-old Zana Kernodal, and 20-year-old Ethan Chapin. Their bodies were found in their off-campus hone out college town of Moscow. And while investigators are remaining relatively tight-lipped about the case, there is more information

that is coming out. So, for example, Madison Moy, who is a sorority sister of Mogan and Kernodal, she told Fox News that the last time she saw Mogan was just hours before her death. She was just having a normal night at a bar. She was, quote, just laughing with all of her friends. And authorities have also called the attack targeted. Now, that's really interesting because a lead prosecutor in this case, Bill Thompson says that it may be that the house was the target, not necessarily the victims. And then we have Gonzalez's father, Steve Gonzalez, who spoke to Good Morning America, and he confirmed that Kaylee told him about a potential stalker. Did she ever talk to you about a potential stalker or somebody that made her uncomfortable?

She did. So we have all this information coming out. Everything changes. Even by the time this recording comes out, things may have already changed. So there's a lot to sort out. I want to bring in right now legendary detective Phil Waters, who is considered one of the world's leading expert interrogators. He spent 23 years working as a homicide investigator for the Houston Police Department. and he has investigated over 400 cases.

Great to have you back here on Sidebar to talk about this case. Thank you. I appreciate you asking me back. Of course, and I want to start with the stalker claim because there's a lot of information online about this. So if we deal with this, Kaylee's father claims that her daughter did talk to him about a potential stalker. But then the Moscow police came forward and they said, quote, investigators have looked

extensively into information they received about Kaylee Gonzalez having a stalker. They pursued hundreds of pieces of information related to this topic. and they have not been able to verify or identify a stalker. What does that tell you? Well, it tells me it's anecdotal information that the father, certainly with the best intentions in the world, is wanting to provide to law enforcement. The problem is that the detectives have the responsibility

of taking every lead and letting that evidence lead them where they need to be. So it may be the case that she may have said, an offhand comment to her father, that, you know, there's some guy following me around. We don't even know if that, if the word stalker was used. But, you know, in the context of the overall case, I can understand why the father would want to bring that, bring that out and express that to law enforcement. But, of course, as you just said, they've not been able to, to sort that out to a certainty. Well, the question is, what was the motive of the person who did this or the people who

did this, right? So originally, when investigators came out and said that this might have been a target attack, everybody thought, oh, well, it must be the victims, right? But then you have this lead prosecutor coming out and saying, no, it might be the house that was the focus of the killer or killers. And so what would lead investigators to believe that the house was the target? And does that mean that it was maybe a robbery gone wrong? This happened in the early morning hours.

I don't think so. I, you know, of course, when something of this magnitude occurs, officials, want to get out and they want to just say stuff. I mean, they're just wanting to fill the air, right? Because there's this vacuum that's created when the public and when the families and so forth are not being giving any information. So they kind of come out and say stuff. And again, I'm not criticizing what this DA has said. I think that to say that it was the house that was the target, I think that is pure conjecture. Now, I don't know what he knows, of course. But from the beginning of this thing, we've talked about before, that it does look like a targeted attack in the

sense that those four people were the victims. And there were two people that remained untouched. Now, the way that house is set up, you've got three tiers. And the victims were in the third tier and the second tier, the one that were unharmed or in the first tier. So that makes me think that the person who did this didn't know the two people were down there in the first. And the first place. And that would lend itself to the targeted aspect of this is, is that those four people, those four young people, they were the targets of this person, obviously, because they're the ones that ended up being slain. So, and how do they meet that person? You know, my, my speculation has been that it could have been a random meeting and they've only known that person from that

night. So in the sense, it would be random. But then as it went through the night, then that person it ended up targeting them is. And we did a show on this actually, previously doing a breakdown of the house and how it was structured. And again, there were these two surviving victims, these roommates who police have ruled out as suspects to make that clear. But just going to the timeline for a second while I have you, investigators believe that these stabbings occurred around between 3 a.m. and 4 a.m. They haven't been able to find the murder weapon, right? They believe that it was some sort of fixed blade knife. I know that they've looked at different knife shops to try to see if it was sold to anybody.

And you go back to the timeline here. So Mogan and Gonsalves were at Moscow, Idaho's Corner Club. It's a bar. Ms. Moy, who I mentioned before, says that she saw Mogan there for the majority of the night. Then we know that according to police, these two victims left at around 1.30 a.m. They went to a food truck. It's captured on footage. And then they went home at almost two, around 2 a.m., almost 2 a.m.

Chapin and Cernodal, they were dating. They spent the night at a fraternity. And then they got back home at 1.45 a.m. So a little bit earlier than the other two victims. And as I said, this happened at around 3 to 4 a.m. is when investigators placed it. So it just seems to me that doesn't it seem that the killer had to know when they were going to be home? Maybe was following them.

Because again, if you say that it was the house that was targeted, is it just somebody sneaking into the house? And oh, there are these just these people there and you killed them? Or is it you had to know that they were home at that time? Well, obviously the killer had to know that they were there. So it wouldn't have carried out he or she. I mean, you know, we don't want to rule out any possibility here. So what does that mean? Does that mean that they were laying in wait until those four individuals showed back up to the house at 1.45, 2 o'clock in the morning?

I'm curious as to how they've determined that the killings occurred between three and four. And obviously there's some evidence inside that scene that is telling them that. So did somebody lay in wait, did somebody show up once they returned, was someone with the first group from the bar, or were they with the people at the fraternity house? I mean, you know, there's so many possibilities here of where this person came in contact, but ultimately, we just know what occurred is that those four people ended up dead. Do you have confidence in this investigation? The reason I ask that is you have police, they said they've collected 103 pieces of evidence from the crime. crime scene. They took an estimated 4,000 photos. We know that the vehicles that were outside the home were towed away. But like we talked about, are they making premature statements, confusing

statements? Obviously, there's a ton of online speculation right now, maybe because there's people who are trying to fill in the gaps with what police are not giving them. Do you have confidence in the investigation at this point? I do in the sense that this is an overwhelming scene of great magnitude, and I'm sure that chief of police, just his first communication with the public about this, he was clearly shaken by this. And so I'm sure he's never seen anything like this to this magnitude, especially in that little college town of 25,000 people. So they have done what they needed to do. They brought in other resources. The state has been brought in resources. The FBI has been brought in. So you have a lot of different components that are engaged in the, in the investigation.

But is it a normal investigation? It's been two weeks, no arrests, no suspects identified. Is this normal standard operating procedure? Well, I don't, applying normal to a homicide investigation is not the word I would use because each one of these homicide investigations are unique, unless you have a serial killer of some kind. But I would say they are doing exactly what they need to do. They're doing their due diligence.

They are tracking. I was reading the other day where there are, there have been over a thousand phone calls, clues called into them. And they have to track those down and make sure, see if there's anything legitimate about them or if they're not. And then you've got, I'm sure they have amassed all sorts of video. I mean, this is what I would be doing with those places where those kids came from. You want to track and see if you've got any videos that are from the point that they left to the point that they ended up. And so there are so many, this is multi-layered, there are so many components of this investigation. And people, I know they're impatient. They want to

resolution, but this isn't television and this isn't getting solved in 43 minutes without commercials. And sometimes law enforcement needs your help. So the Moscow Police Department is encouraging anybody who has actual information about this case to call them at 208-883-718. You can also submit tips through tipline at c.moscow.id.us. And you can send any information there? Can I add one thing here? Just absolutely fell. component of this. So from the beginning of this, they've talked about the weapon, right? And what I have seen on television, they keep saying it's a Rambo-type knife. Well, that's absolutely incorrect. It's not a Rambo-type knife. In fact, I have read where they have identified the type of knife.

And the type of knife that they're talking about is the United States Marine Corps K-bar. So when I saw this, my thought was, is that is this person prior military? So the specific weapon, if they're talking about a K bar, which is what this is, then there's a possibility that they need to look into military background of some kind. And real quick, just to finalize that, Phil, if this is somebody who was able to enter into the house from the second floor, you would also imagine that maybe require some sort of training. I would think so. I mean, if you want to couple the K-bar component with that type of entry, but now there's supposedly no forced entry, but I just thought that was an interesting, an interesting part of evidence when they started talking about this being a K-bar, because that is unique to Marines,

and I'm a Marine, so I'm well-versed in the use of the K-bar. It's interesting to think about. Phil Waters, thanks for taking the time. We'd love to have you back as this investigation progresses, and hopefully there will be a resolution relatively soon. Thank you so much, Phil. All right, take care. All right, everybody, that's all we have for you here on Sidebar.

Thank you so much for joining us. Please subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, wherever you get your podcast. I'm Jesse Weber. I'll speak to you next time. You can binge all episodes of this long crime series, ad free right now on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.