Law&Crime Sidebar - Idaho Student Murders Suspect Took Classes Taught By Serial Killer Expert

Episode Date: December 31, 2022

Bryan Kohberger, the 28-year-old man charged with murdering four University of Idaho students, was working on a Ph.D. at Washington State University. Before that, he studied at DeSales University where he earned a Master's degree in June 2022 and had classes taught by forensic psychologist Dr. Katherine Ramsland - an expert in serial killers. The Law&Crime Network's Angenette Levy has the latest on this revelation, what a former classmate said about Kohberger and what Dr. Ramsland previously told a Law&Crime podcast about her work and the class she teaches on serial killers. LAW&CRIME SIDEBAR PRODUCTION:YouTube Management - Bobby SzokePodcasting - Sam GoldbergVideo Editing - Logan HarrisGuest Booking - Alyssa FisherSocial Media Management - Kiera BronsonSUBSCRIBE TO OUR OTHER PODCASTS:Court JunkieObjectionsThey Walk Among AmericaCoptales and CocktailsThe Disturbing TruthSpeaking FreelyLAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandcrime/Twitter: https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetworkFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawandcrimeTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lawandcrimenetworkTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lawandcrimeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can binge all episodes of this Law and Crimes series ad-free right now. Join Wondry Plus in the Wondery app Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Agent Nate Russo returns in Oracle 3, Murder at the Grandview, the latest installment of the gripping Audible Original series. When a reunion at an abandoned island hotel turns deadly, Russo must untangle accident from murder. But beware, something sinister lurks in the grand. View Shadows. Joshua Jackson delivers a bone-chilling performance in this supernatural thriller that will

keep you on the edge of your seat. Don't let your fears take hold of you as you dive into this addictive series. Love thrillers with a paranormal twist? The entire Oracle trilogy is available on Audible. Listen now on Audible. Should we call you Doctor? Should we call you Catherine? What do you like to go by? Catherine's fine? You can call me Catherine. Dr. Catherine Ramsland, an expert in serial killers who teaches at DeSales University in Pennsylvania. We're learning. One of her students was Brian Coburger, the man now charged with murdering four University of Idaho students. I'm Ann Jeanette Levy and welcome to this special edition of Law and Crime Sidebar podcast. 28-year-old Brian Coburger is being held without bail at the Monroe County Jail in Pennsylvania on

those murder charges. He was arrested at his parents' home on Friday. Friday morning just before 2 a.m. Moscow police say they seized a 2015 White Alantra, but have offered few other details. Coburger faces four counts of first-degree murder and one count of felony burglary and will have to be extradited to Idaho to face charges for the murders of Kaylee Gonzalez, Maddie Mogan, Ethan Chapin, and Zana Cernodal. Police executed a search warrant at Coburger's apartment in Pullman, Washington Friday. Coburger was a Ph.D. student at Washington State University studying criminal justice and criminology. Washington State University is about 10 miles from Moscow, Idaho, where those murders were committed on November 13th. A spokesperson for the university

said Coburger had just completed his first semester in the program. Before WSU, Coburger was a master's student at DeSales University in Pennsylvania, and one of his professors was Dr. Catherine Ramsland. She teaches classes in serial killers. She's a forensic psychologist. And she has actually appeared on some of law and crimes podcasts, including sidebar and cocktails and cocktails. This is what she told Sean Sticks Larkin about her work earlier this year. I actually consult on death investigations. I do police trainings. I talk about profiling and psychological autopsy, which is really about suicidology. So that's, I have a whole class just in that. And I have a class in dangerous minds that I teach at the undergraduate and

graduate level, and that is really about extreme offenders, which is mass murderers, spree killers, and serial killers. So that's primarily what I do most of my work on and most of what the students want for me. That class fills up very quickly. I actually spoke with a student who was in that serial killer class with Brian Koberger. and he told me that Koeberger often interrupted Dr. Ramsland, talking over her as if he knew more about the subject matter than she did. Now, in that interview with Sean Stix Larkin, Dr. Ramsland talked a little bit more about how she became interested in studying serial killers. It chose me more than I chose it, but I love it. I think it's really interesting and I'm constantly finding new ideas, new

motivations. You know, we have formulas related to serial killers, but for example, I spent five years talking with Dennis Rader, the BTK serial killer, because he defies many of the formulas. So I thought that was interesting. I wanted to know more about that. And I think I'm always looking for the outliers, rather than the ones that fit the mold. I want to see the ones that don't fit the mold, and how did they get to be the way they are? And in psychology, as opposed to criminology, we're looking more at the cases, the individual details of someone's life story.

story and the trajectory, basically, whereas in criminology, you're looking more groups and trends and statistics and things like that. I'm much more interested in just the case details. So that's why I liked talking to people who are willing to explore how they got to be the way they are. And I can spend many hours doing that. So I didn't choose it, but I'm really happy I'm in this field. Ramsland also spoke with cocktails and cocktails about talking with serial killers

face to face and through letters. I assume in your career you've come face to face with a lot of these gentlemen correct? Yeah. I'm like you can't just go into prisons and come face to face with them. But yeah, I've talked to them on the phone through correspondence,

sometimes in prison. Have you ever gotten that just like this is just pure evil. This guy is just, he's, there's nothing human about it. I have a hard time with the word evil. Okay, got you. All right. Because it's kind of a religious context. Okay. Do I think, have I come face to face with psychopaths? Absolutely. The coldness, the lack of remorse, definitely. So some people, yeah, some people call that evil, but we are finding that it might very well be a brain disorder. Neuroscience is giving us a lot of information about the brains of psychopaths.

And they do process things differently. They have very shallow, emotional connections. Is it something they're born with? If so, that's a different story. As you can imagine, we want to talk to Dr. Ramsland about her experience teaching Brian Koberger. We reached out to her and she said that she is not making any statements at this time. That's it for this edition of Law and Crime Sidebar Podcast. It is produced by Sam Goldberg and Michael.

Dininger, Bobby Zoki is our YouTube manager, Alyssa Fisher is our booking producer, and Kira Bronson handles our social media. You can listen to and download Sidebar on Apple, Spotify, and Google, and wherever else you get your podcasts. And of course, you can always watch it on Law and Crimes YouTube channel. I'm In Jeanette Levy, and we will see you next time. You can binge all episodes of this law and crime series, ad free right now on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.