Law&Crime Sidebar - Idaho Students' Neighbor Breaks Silence as Cops Zero in on White Hyundai

Episode Date: December 14, 2022

A neighbor of the four murdered University of Idaho students spoke out about the case on a livestream Tuesday night. Plus, investigators released additional information about the white Hyundai Elantra seen near the home on the night of the murders. The Law&Crime Network's Jesse Weber breaks down the latest with legendary homicide detective Fil Waters and former Idaho reporter Lauren Matthias, who hosts the Hidden True Crime podcast.PLEASE SUPPORT THE SHOW:Order Breaking Blue: Real Life Stories of Cops Falsely Accused by Sean "Sticks" Larkin on Amazon: https://amzn.to/3TCsJtyLAW&CRIME SIDEBAR PRODUCTION:YouTube Management - Bobby SzokePodcasting - Sam GoldbergVideo Editing - Logan HarrisGuest Booking - Alyssa FisherSocial Media Management - Kiera BronsonSUBSCRIBE TO OUR OTHER PODCASTS:Court JunkieObjectionsThey Walk Among AmericaCoptales and CocktailsThe Disturbing TruthSpeaking FreelyLAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandcrime/Twitter: https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetworkFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawandcrimeTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lawandcrimenetworkTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lawandcrimeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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keep you on the edge of your seat. Don't let your fears take hold of you as you dive into this addictive series. Love thrillers with a paranormal twist? The entire Oracle trilogy is available on Audible. Listen now on Audible. So I heard like, you know, a car shut, a door shut and then like, you know, an apartment door shut. Like also, like a scream. But like, you know, that's like normal. Like I always hear like screaming almost every Saturday night. So like, I don't really like think of it. Police collecting surveillance footage from the night of the killings to an interview with an interesting neighbor. We break down the latest in the University of Idaho murder investigation with renowned former homicide detective Phil Waters and true crime host Lauren Matthias.

Welcome to Sidebar, presented by law and crime. I'm Jesse Weber. Well, this investigation is not cold. We get tips every day that are viable. We get dozens of dozens of tips. We sort through and we prioritize them. And for sure, some of them are not good tips. They're not even relevant to the case. But every single day, we get a good amount of viable tips. And those tips help us do everything from clear people who maybe there was some speculation about to further some of the theories that we're working on. Well, it's another day and still no arrests, no suspects, no recovered weapon in the University of Idaho quadruple murder case. This, of course, is the killings of 21-year-old Kaylee Gonzalez, 21-year-old Madison

Mogan, 20-year-old Zana Kurnodal, and 20-year-old Ethan Chapin, whose bodies were found in their off-campus rental home out in the college town of Moscow. As we are now in the fourth week, there is new information that is coming to light about gas station footage and an interview with a neighbor. And we thought it might be beneficial to do maybe an in-depth review of where we are right now. So joining me to break all of this down. I am joined by legendary homicide detective Phil Waters, who spent 23 years in the Houston Police Department. He investigated more than 400 cases. Phil has been incredibly generous with his time. He's been helping us out here on law and crime to understand the inner workings of this investigation. And we are also joined by

Lauren Matthias. Lauren was a TV reporter for 10 years and actually a former Idaho reporter. She is currently the host of the Hidden True Crime Podcast and YouTube channel, and she has been actively following this case. Phil, Lauren, it's great to have you both here on Sidebar. I'm happy to be here. I like that. You timed that both perfectly at the same time with the thank you. Lauren, I'm going to start with you. I'm going to start with you because you did something really interesting.

You sat down and had an interview on your YouTube channel and podcast with a neighbor of these students, someone who lived in that area. but I first want to start with why you approached him for the interview because the way that I understand it, he had some activity online and he was making contradictions about maybe what he saw and heard. So can you summarize who exactly he is and what he saw and heard? Absolutely. His name is Enon Harsh, a neighbor of the four victims. And he did make contradictions. You're absolutely right. So after the murder, the day after he wrote, wow, you know, my neighbor. and I'm paraphrasing here, but I learned that my neighbors have been murdered. I didn't hear anything.

I didn't hear a scream. He later went on to edit that post and took out that he hadn't heard a scream and is recently saying, you know what, I might have heard a scream. Move forward, he did a Reddit AMA. And in that Reddit AMA, he decides to mention that he had met the victims, or at least some of them. He mentioned Kaylee by name in that memory of bringing over wine and meeting them, saying they were beautiful and joyful.

all of these things kept coming and coming. And I thought, I have got to talk to this guy. What else does he know? And Phil, I'm going to get to you in a second about your impression of him in a second. The reason I'm going to do that, Phil, is because Lauren, my understanding, not even my understanding, I was watching your feed of this. And in the chat room, people were very skeptical of him. It seemed to me, and you could correct me if I'm wrong, the people might think he is the actual killer. Did you think there was anything strange about his responses and what were people thinking of him?

I do think there were things that were strange about his responses. I think that, oh, I do want to know, again, more about him. And I think it's fair that people are questioning, questioning him in chat. And I want to say, I know that true crime sleuths in the true crime community get a lot of flack from speculating about certain people. But I want to say he is the one that has come forward. let's let's lay that out here first before we continue he came out and stated he might have heard a scream he came out with the red at a m a he has shared a lot so what we're processing as a true crime community right now is things he's chosen to share with the public i do want to lay that

foundation here um i think it's fair that people are skeptical of him first contradictions changing stories going as far as editing his Facebook post to say he heard a scream or he did not hear scream, excuse me, and now he has possibly maybe heard a scream in addition to saying he had met the victims. That was what was most prominent to me in that Reddit AMA. Wait, you've met them? He's all, he's never said that before. And then I thought it was interesting that he then said he couldn't remember all of their names in this long Reddit thread. And then referred to Ethan as the boyfriend. Her boyfriend, it was the way he said it in the Reddit AMA, referring to Zana.

He mentioned Zana and Kaylee by name, said he couldn't remember Maddie, although he does follow Maddie on Instagram. And then said her boyfriend, Zana's boyfriend, he also said that in the interview with me, he called Ethan the boyfriend twice. And I finally said Ethan's name. this is strange to me for someone that lives next door to these victims, we all know their names and you don't? Like, what's going on here? Yeah, and he said on there

that some of the nicest neighbors, he loved his neighbors, they were really nice people. Phil, for people who don't know, you are not only a legendary homicide detective, but also a master interrogator. You've sat across from a lot of people trying to get information from them. What was your take on what you saw

from this gentleman? And Lauren's right, he came forward. So what's your take on this? Well, my impression of him is that he has inserted himself into the investigation for his own purposes. You know, I told you before we get on the air here that I was most impressed with his profanities and use of the word like. So the, as I look at his. Yeah, I will tell you that as a broadcaster myself, I took a little issue with that. I think he said the word like maybe 23 million times but other than that i tried to get to the substance of well it got to the point where i was i was going to start counting them just for the entertainment value but he i watch him it's hard to get a

a real good reading because it's on a video of course he's on a camera and so forth and so on it because i'm not seeing the total picture here of him but what i can see though through his narrative there he is using the word like because he's that's a filler word he's he's trying to come up with a few seconds there to determine what he's going to say next. And he uses it repeatedly. Hey guys, Sean Sticks Larkin here from On Patrol Live. The holiday seasons upon us. And if you're looking for that perfect gift to stuff down in that stocking or put

under the tree for somebody else, pick up my book, Breaking Blue, Real Life Stories of Cops Falsely Accused. It's a great read, something you don't want to miss. You can pick it up on Amazon. The body is he does a lot of looking around. and I'm not talking about eye stuff. I'm talking about just his mannerisms. He does a lot of this.

And there are a lot of subtle shoulder shrugs. He'll be getting into a discussion and you'll see that shoulder start to pump. Those things together would indicate to me if I was sitting in the room with him and had a better view of him, that there is a possibility of some deception in what he is saying.

Now, the description of this SUV now all of a sudden that has come to light, He talks about, oh, yeah, it's this really, you know, hot-looking SUV, this and that. And he's really drawn to those types of vehicles. That's why he noticed it. I think he said that Kaylee drove a Ford, which is not in his mind, a really high-end luxury vehicle. And then he talks about the license plate was either Arizona or Montana. And then later on, he adds in Colorado.

So I guess we're going to cover kind of the Midwest, the southwest, up to the north part of the country. of what this possible license plate was. So a lot of things there in the discussion that don't tell me that he's being authentic. And then what Lawrence talked about here, the fact that he came out at the beginning of this and said, I don't know nothing. I didn't hear nothing. I wasn't, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, barely knew these people.

And now all of a sudden, in this interview with Lauren, all of a sudden, he was going to go crash one of their parties, I think is what he said. So my impression of him, and I alluded this, talked about this with you, Jesse, In my mind, if I'm one of the detectives, he's a suspect. He's a possible suspect. That's the interesting thing, right? Lawrence, so my understanding is he spoke with the police. This is somebody who spent time in prison.

Did you get any sense from him about what he told them or why they were interested in him? I didn't. You know, what we do know right now is that according to him, police allegedly were knocking on many neighbors doors the morning of the murders, asking if they had heard anything. and he omitted that they knocked on his door and he talked to him and he shared what he knew and he shared about that night. I did ask him specifically in the interview, have you talked to police since? Have you talked to law enforcement since that time?

He said he had. He, you know, it wasn't quite clear, but it sounded as if maybe he went to law enforcement, but that was not said that was alluded to. So I'm not quite sure because I did say, did they come to you? Did you go to them? He said, oh, I talked to him. Yeah. Could you share more about that? No. He said, no, it was off record and we moved on because on my program, if someone doesn't want to ask or answer something, we won't force the issue. But he said that was off record. He didn't want to share what that other conversation, at least one conversation was with police. Phil, real quick, because there's other aspects of the case I want to talk about, not just focus on the neighbor, but what questions do you think were asked of him? And do you think he's been officially cleared,

as a suspect at this point because we know the police department has come forward and saying we've gotten information. We're clearing suspects. We're following up on leads. Why do you think they met with him? What do you think they asked him? Well, he's going to be talked to because he lives there. So that's going to be one of the first people. As they do that canvas, I'm sure, of the neighborhood, they're going to talk to everybody that they can get in contact with. And I am sure that they may have seen the very same things that Lauren alluded to about these changes in what his, for lack of a better term, his testimony might be. So he made these statements at the beginning and he's made those statements to law enforcement and now they may have

seen, and I don't know, of course, but I'm speculating here that they may have seen the very same post that Lauren saw and other people saw and said, well, maybe we need to go back and revisit this. And there may have been some things that he talked about in the first interview that were unsettling to the detectives at the time. And it's not uncommon. I mean, I did it myself. In fact, I can recall a time where I brought a witness in, and the longer that I spoke with them than taking their statement,

all of a sudden I had an epiphany, and I realized that I'm talking to the suspect. I'm not talking to the witness. So I'm not suggesting that he is the person, of course. He is a possible suspect, and whether or not the law enforcement, the detectives, have cleared him. I don't know. Only they know that. But I think it's, it's a very odd, it's a very odd

conversation between he and Lauren this morning. Well, as we continue the discussion about the Idaho case and we talk about, you know, what was found or who was around during that time, obviously him hearing something, this neighbor hearing something is going to be really pivotal. But moving beyond that, there is this new detail that I wanted to bring to everybody's attention. and there is that the police collected eight hours worth of surveillance footage from a gas station. It seems that there was an assistant general manager who looked back at this footage and had kind of a weird feeling and wanted to look back and saw this white car passing at 3.45 a.m. And remember, this is important because we know the police were asking the public's help

in identifying a 2011-2013 white Hyundai Alantra that they believe was near the crime scene around the time of the killings. We don't know if this car on the footage is that car in particular. Lauren, you're a review of this case. What are you thinking about this car? What are you thinking about what might be on this gas station footage? Because it is another piece of information that we've just learned. Yeah, my first answer is I don't know. My second answer, which is where my brain goes, which is where my speculation leads, is this a suspect?

And I'd love to ask for this because I've wondered, you know, the way the law enforcement word it. We think they might know something that can help the investigation. They might have seen something. That's fair. And maybe that's true. But I've also wondered if it's further that. Could this be a possible suspect? And I'd love to throw that question back. Because these are the things that go through my mind. And I wish I could understand the layout of the town a little bit more, too, to understand how close they were, where this gas station is. But those are the things across my mind. So, Phil, over to you. Obviously, they collected all this footage. What are they looking for now what are they dissecting do they who do they bring it to to analyze the

footage what are exactly they looking for about this car well they're going to be looking at the and just as an aside here we talked in the beginning jesse the things that i would be doing and one of these things is accumulating all the video that you can when they put out this description of this elantra that prompted that manager at that establishment go you know i'm to go back and look and here we go so this is a great lead uh there are things you can do to the video themselves you can there's some enhancement things you can do to it but there's only so many pixels so you're only going to be able to enhance it to a certain level they're going to have people that are going to be the detectives are going to be looking at this and trying to determine is this

in fact the elantra i know i had a case where i had the video of a vehicle that was leaving the the scene of a capital murder and it was kind of a side shot and it was through a window that had some shading on it but we got the general outlook of what the vehicle was and ended up determining that it was a 2015 to 2016 model a Toyota 4 runner and I went to so what I'm suggesting here is is that they're going to look at this video and they're going to try to put together the silhouette of that car and if they can get a distinct picture of it and then they will start to put it together with different types of vehicles of the same make and model and of the same similar makes and models and that's what i did i went to car max and lined up four SUVs white SUVs

and we eventually got because of the rear tail lights we got down to it so a huge huge piece of evidence i know lauren she'd like to know that's that she knows those are the suspects And that's the, you know, that's the thing about these types of investigations that I've been involved in. The high profile stuff, look, there is a certain amount of information that detectors are going to release because it is part of the strategy and they make tactical decisions within the investigation. They're not going to come out.

There's no purpose of coming out and saying, hey, we think these are the suspects because that's not really the point. The point is that we've got a vehicle here. We would like to talk to those people and we need the help of the public to getting that vehicle identified and getting those people identified. And now here's what happens. We have a business owner or a manager that decides to go look back at some video a month later. And bingo, we've got the vehicle that may be the one that police have been asked to look up. And Phil, that makes total sense. Obviously, Lauren, people are criticizing law enforcement here. They feel

there's a lack of information coming out. We know that Stephen Gonzalez. We've done a sidebars on this, the comments that he's made about law enforcement. After everything you've seen, I feel like you and Phil will probably disagree about this. Are you confident in the investigation? Do you think that there are things that are not being shared? Do you think that there's been miscommunication by law enforcement? I just saw a report the other day that someone saying that maybe the Moscow police should hand this investigation over to a different agency. So what you're seeing right now, and we know that one of the biggest dangers is misinformation and rumors being spread, It can derail an investigation.

It can target the wrong people. It can create a lot of problems. That can be caused by a lack of information from law enforcement. Do you see that as a problem from the investigation? Yeah, yeah. I'm happy to talk about this a bit. And you're right, Phil, we've been on opposite sides of this. As a TV reporter, I was the one calling you and saying, can I get an interview?

So, and, you know, half of my career was spent in Idaho working with police officers. And then, you know, I am having a hard. time with the way police, law enforcement, Moscow specifically are handling this. I think that they're fueling the speculation. Honestly, every time they bring up in their press releases, the first few paragraphs are don't listen to web sleuth and don't, excuse me, not web sleuth, don't listen to, don't listen to true crime, the true crime community, the social media sleuth out there. I'm getting calls from the media saying, hey, will you talk as, as, as, uh, a representative of the true crime community,

a true crime sluice, because they keep bringing you guys up. So we got to know what's going on. That's happening because they keep talking about them. Do you know what I mean? That right there is an issue. But let's go to the investigation itself. Yeah, I get so excited to get these releases.

I'm like, okay, what's going on? Again, don't listen to anyone but us. Don't listen to the true crime community. It's wild speculation and criminal charges are coming. And then here's what's going on. And then they don't share anything with us. So then they don't hold. conference is and the media wants to report on this and people want to know what's going on.

And so if the police aren't talking, who are they going to talk to? They're going to talk to the true crime community. If they're not going to be a voice, the media's going to find a voice. We want to know what's going on. I'm going to interview Enon on my channel. If no one else is going to tell us what's going on. To you, Phil, for a response to that is we don't know what's happening behind the scenes. We don't know the level of progress.

And they're holding a lot of details close to the vest. So I'll give you a chance to respond to Lauren. Well, I would agree with Lauren to a degree. At the beginning of this thing and to set the stage here, and Lauren, you're more familiar with Moscow, Idaho than I am, certainly. You're talking about a community here of about 28,000 people. It's a college town. You've got a police force that's got 36 commissioned officers and support personnel.

You have, in the last 15 years, they've had seven homicides. And in one day, they have four. The chief at the beach, at the beach. beginning, the first presser that he held was clearly overwhelmed by what he had seen and what had happened. And he just did not know how to handle this. And that's not a criticism. That is simply the reality of where that chief was. And so the optics were from the beginning was this, as Lauren has stated, this communication problem, communication problem with the families, communication problems with the media and the general public so that started then that that fuse got

lit then and once that gets started it is hard to put that sucker out and so then you go forward and now you have the police department vis-a-vis the chief comes out and he says one thing now they put a captain up there after that and he contradicts what was just said then they come out later and they reaffirm what they said in the first place and it just becomes a man and really that little discussion was about targeting and that that kind of is a is a semantic discussion clearly these these four young people were targeted the the unknown here is did this person know them before they walked in there and did this or were they watching them from afar and walked in there and had some weird bone to pick with these folks we don't know that the optics are that the police aren't communicating

they're hiding stuff they're saying things they're misinformation this and this and of course that lights the fire with the true crime community and now we get all the conspiracy theories that start coming into this thing and i will just say from having been on the other side of a high profile investigation, many high profile investigations, that the media has their job, but it is the, it is law enforcement's job and the detectives, the chief of that department, who, whatever it might be, to make sure that they are clearly communicating with the media, the public, and the family. And it's not as easy as it sounds. I mean, people want to make it sound like, oh, yeah, they can just do this and that. It ain't that easy.

in real life, this isn't, you know, going to get solved in 43 minutes without commercials. I mean, that's just the reality here. And so they're trying to get a handle on the communication thing. And now they've turned it over to a PIO, which after that first thing with the chief, that should have been done right there. And then the detectives should be feeding the information to the PIO. This is what we can release. This is what we are not going to talk about.

And then the chief is, I know there was a big deal made about the chief being asked about an open door and he didn't know anything about it. Look, that's not a big deal. It really isn't. That chief is not being briefed on every detail, every statement, every tip, every piece of evidence that they've gathered in this investigation. He should be being briefed. It's the big picture. Here's the progress. Here's what we've done. Here's where we are. And here's where we need to go. So I'm a little, I don't say upset, but I'm a little disappointed in the fact that this chief is getting beat up mercilessly by all sorts of people, media, true crime people, whoever the people are out there that are criticizing him and just, you know, having been through these types of things, I know in our department at Houston PD, if the scene was a very high profile, the chief might come down and make a couple of statements to open up. up the questions and then it would be turned over to the detectives, turned over to us, or that maybe the captain of the homicide division that comes down and does the same thing. And then if the

chief needs to answer a question, he would step in and he would answer the question. So it's just a matter of your experience in these types of events. And I'm sorry, but that chief in Moscow, Idaho does not have that experience. And again, that's not a criticism. That's just the reality. And look, this is, this is also a college town. It's transient. It's not uncommon for there to be loud noises or screams with parties. It's a very interesting crime scene. Lauren, we're running a little short on time, so I'm going to, long on time, I should say.

So I'm going to give you one final, one final word real quick about what you'd like to see next. And also, do you have any working theories on where you think the police are going to go? I know it's tough to know. I know it's tough to gauge, but you've been following this case. really closely. I'll give you the floor about another 30 seconds or so to give some final words and where you'd like this case to go next and what you might be planning to do if you have any interviews lined up. Yeah, where I'd like this case to go next, I'd like to see it's solved. I don't think a lot of us thought we'd be here four weeks later. I don't know about you two,

but I'm surprised. I actually, it's been affecting my mental health. I mentioned that in my interview with, you know, I can't imagine. I think that it's a bit startling for me to think that we're four weeks in it does it does concern me it concerns me that this might go cold it concerns me that they might not know a lot and what i mean that when i say that i mean law enforcement uh but you know maybe maybe they're processing uh evidence maybe they'll get dna i i would like us to have more information too i would rather than them coming out every time there's a press release and chastising the true crime community i hope that they share with us more information i hope that there's process i hope that there's process i hope

that we learn more. I hope that more people will come forward to do interviews like the one Enon did. Whatever anyone thinks of Enon, I'm grateful he came forward and spoke to me. And I hope that more people do come forward and do interviews. Maybe Phil feels differently, but I can't imagine it hurts anything to have more voices or more people to understand what's going on in that town. And I hope that we can, rather than point fingers and criticize one another for what everyone's doing is join together. Let's work together to hopefully get justice for these four victims in such a tragic, such a tragic case. And I know that we're short on time, but I do have one more question for Phil, if that's okay. I do want to ask him what he thought about Enon saying that he thinks it's funny.

People are accusing him of this crime. I asked him that and he thought it was funny, comparing that. to Jeremy Reagan, another neighbor that's been accused and he was sort of fortified and upset. And I just, I guess, and I apologize, I know you said we're short on time, but I did want to ask me. He's making Bernie question in me. And, you know, I'm not the profiler here. But he said, he thinks it's funny. He's being accused and is sort of enjoying it. And I just wanted your thoughts on that too, very different than Jeremy Reagan. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Phil, tossing that over to you.

because I remember you had said that you think he's coming out for his own reasons. So the fact that he thinks it's comical that people are accusing him, what do you think about that? Well, the term that I would use if I would sit in the interview room with him, and he brought that up, and I think he smiles and maybe laughs a little bit. We call it inappropriate laughter. That is, he's making a point there, but then he's delivering it in a humorous way, and this is too serious of a matter for him to be doing that. So again, I think he's doing a lot of this.

when he puts his own little chef dizzy or whatever it is he's got on the screen there this is this is his own aggrandizement i think that he's doing a lot of this for this is his 15 minutes of fame uh but again those little things uh laura i you know it's good that you got him on there i was very interested in that interview but to your point of that more people need to come forward the problem with that is is that you get people like him or that are worse that come forward because they just want to get their face on a camera somewhere and say a bunch of crap that means nothing to anybody. And it further confuses everybody else. And then again, we have this conspirator theories that start revving up again. Look, I'm just telling you that those detectives,

they're not going to release stuff. And you know this, Lauren. I don't have to tell you this. But they're not going to release things that are going to compromise the investigation. And look, they've got 6,500 over 6,500 calls and emails and tips and all that stuff. They've got hundreds of pieces of evidence. This DNA stuff takes a while to process. They've got so much blood evidence. I'm just telling you it's a very complicated scene. It's a massive scene.

And it's just going to take time. And everybody would like to see this thing solve right this moment. But that's not the reality. But these guys are they've called in the state. They've called in the FBI. They're doing their due diligence. These guys are working hard. And I'm confident that it may come down, too, that, you know what?

I had one of these that lasted for five months, a triple killing. And I had the entire event on video, had the person on there shooting these three people on video. And it was only five months later. We were doing cell tower dumps because the guy was on the phone at some point. So what I'm telling you is, is that. that what solved that case was a woman scorned. So his girlfriend, his ex-girlfriend, calls, and that's what broke it wide open.

And that may happen in this case. You know, what I'm praying for these guys is that they get that phone call. They get that one person that says, you know what, I've got the information, and it's eaten me up, and I need to make that call. Yeah, no, look, I think the best way to explain it is when there may be there's not enough information out there there's sometimes too much information out there and but look i think at the end of the day we're all looking for the same goal and we're going to see where this way which way this shakes up uh phil lauren thank you both for taking the time i

really appreciate and i encourage everybody to take a look at a lauren's interview with anon and they can be a judge for themselves of what they thought of uh what he had to say but thank you both so much for joining us here on sidebar really appreciate it and that's all we have for you here on sidebar everybody thank you so much for joining us please subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jesse Weber. I'll speak to you next time. You can binge all episodes of this long crime series ad free right now on Wondery Plus.

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