Law&Crime Sidebar - Inside the Chaotic Manhunt at Brown University

Episode Date: December 16, 2025

Two students are dead, nine are injured, and a massive manhunt is underway after a deadly mass shooting at Brown University. Law&Crime’s Jesse Weber and retired FBI agent Bobby Chacon break down the latest in this rapidly evolving investigation: the $50,000 FBI reward, the controversial detention and release of a person of interest, and the critical surveillance footage that authorities are using to track the shooter.PLEASE SUPPORT THE SHOW:Grow your own audience today – go to https://www.opus.pro/sidebar for 1 week free plus 50% off the first 3 months of Opus Pro. HOST:Jesse Weber: https://twitter.com/jessecordweberLAW&CRIME SIDEBAR PRODUCTION:YouTube Management - Bobby SzokeVideo Editing - Michael Deininger, Christina O'Shea, Alex Ciccarone, & Jay CruzScript Writing & Producing - Savannah Williamson & Juliana BattagliaGuest Booking - Alyssa Fisher & Diane KayeSocial Media Management - Vanessa BeinSTAY UP-TO-DATE WITH THE LAW&CRIME NETWORK:Watch Law&Crime Network on YouTubeTV: https://bit.ly/3td2e3yWhere To Watch Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3akxLK5Sign Up For Law&Crime's Daily Newsletter: https://bit.ly/LawandCrimeNewsletterRead Fascinating Articles From Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3td2IqoLAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandcrimeTwitter: https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetworkFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawandcrimeTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lawandcrimenetworkTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lawandcrimeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can binge all episodes of this Law and Crimes series ad-free right now. Join Wondry Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. There's no one that wants to put these individual in handcuffs. Authorities say this person, you see right there, could be somewhat of interest in connection with the deadly shooting at Brown University. But with no suspect in custody and a lot of questions about why no one has officially been arrested as of yet after a lot of a prior announcement of someone being detained and released, we are getting into the latest in this rapidly evolving manhunt. Welcome to Sidebar, presented by Law and Crime. I'm Jesse Weber. Now, as we're covering a story like this, if you are putting content out there, if you are

on social media a lot, you might be wondering how we're able to share so many of these clips so quickly. Well, here's a secret. We use something called Opus Clip. This is an all-in-one AI editor that makes it so easy to cut, create, and upload videos across any platform. Through AI, OpusClip generates B-roll, it reframes footage, and it even cleans up audio. It is so easy to use. You just visit Opus.pro slash sidebar. You sign up, you upload, and in minutes, you have perfectly edited clips ready to go. For TikTok, Shorts, Reels, Opus Clip is your one-stop shop.

And having a tool like Opus Clip means that our producers can get you viral courtroom updates instantly. This is the most powerful tool there is to help you share ideas and edit. like a pro. So go to opus.pro slash sidebar to create your videos today. It may be hard to believe, but a manhunt is still underway for the person who's suspected of opening fire on the campus of Brown University. This is a shooting that claimed the lives of two students, nine others were wounded. It happened at around 4 p.m. local time on Saturday the 13th after a gunman entered the Barrison-Hawley Engineering Building with a rifle during a final exam review for a principles of economics class in a lecture hall reportedly shouted something an open fire. Classes, exams,

they'd been canceled. A community is left devastated. There are a ton of questions. And right now, we have more details of the shooting, the aftermath, and most importantly, information about a person of interest, possibly a suspect. Let's start there. Now, while authorities are still in the hunt for this person, this suspect, the FBI is now offering a reward. This is Ted Docs. The FBI special agent in charge speaking at a presser yesterday. We are also here to announce the FBI is now offering the reward of $50,000 for information that can lead to the identification, the arrest, and the conviction of the individual responding that we believe to be armed and dangerous.

We're asking everyone in Rhode Island and beyond to review the new images of the suspect, share them on social media, and come forward if you have any information. And Docs also added that authorities are, quote, documenting the trajectories of the bullets to reconstruct the scene. Now, we're also going to talk about the surveillance footage evidence in a moment. But Providence Police Chief Oscar L. Perez Jr. said the police are pursuing a new lead that is based on photos and videos of someone taken at around 2 p.m. Saturday. So this is hours before the attack. He added, we're asking the public for assistance to be able to identify this individual. And with that, the FBI has released a flyer.

of more information of the shooter. We're going to put it up right now. The FBI is offering a reward of up to $50,000 for information leading to the identification, arrest, and conviction of the individual responsible for this shooting. The Boston Division of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the Providence Police Department, and the Rhode Island State Police are seeking the public's assistance in identifying the individual responsible for the mass shooting at Brown University on Saturday, December 13th, 2025. The suspect is described as a male, approximately five foot eight, with a stocky build. The public is encouraged to share any personal videos or photographs of the incidents to FBI Brown University shooting. This person should be considered armed and dangerous.

If you have any information concerning this case, please contact the FBI at 1-800-call FBI. That's 1-800-2-25-5-3-24 or the Providence Police Department at 401-272-31. You may also contact your local FBI office, the nearest American Embassy, or consulate or you can submit a tip online at tips.fbi.gov. Now, this is a massive investigation. It's being reported. You have the Providence Police Department, its detective division, the community response team, the FBI, Homeland Security, ATF, all working together. Now, Providence Mayor Brett Smiley assured the public that the city is, quote, being provided with enhanced police coverage at Brown University throughout the city because they don't know

if the shooter is still in the area. And by the way, Mayor Smiley, also had to respond to those who have criticisms of Brown University for not preventing this, that they aren't working with law enforcement, that's an allegation, that allegedly they're not releasing digital data to identify the suspect, and also just criticisms about the investigation in general. Take a listen. First of all, Brown University and Brown Public Safety, Brown Police Department has been a close collaborator throughout this process. I do not accept that process. Oh, come on. Secondly, everyone you see behind us, we've all been working for now 49 hours.

We're tired. We're serious about the task at hand. I know all of you have been working very hard, and I suspect all of you are just as tired. The press has been a great partner in pushing out relevant, factual, timely information, and we are grateful for that. This crowd has grown a little bit over the last 48 hours, and I know that people are weary, are weary and so I'm asking please for a little bit of patience in grace and we have been fully transparent. We continue to answer your questions. We will continue to do so. You also had Rhode Island

Attorney General Peter Naranha who added that the work that law enforcement did yesterday on Monday showed quote steady progress. Now by the way, this all comes after it was reported that a person of interest was initially detained, reportedly picked up from a Hampton Inn in Coventry Rhode Island. It was reported that authorities weren't looking into anyone else. Mayor Smiley said Sunday at first, the people of Providence should breathe a little easier this morning. FBI director Cash Patel posted on social media that the agency's cellular analysis survey team had used cell phone data to track the person down. It was reported that multiple law enforcement sources said, according to CNN, that a revolver and Glock handgun with a laser site, they were found in the hotel room.

This is someone who was described as a 24-year-old infantry soldier in the U.S. Army, but then that person was released. The police chief, Perez, Jr., said during a presser on Sunday night that there just wasn't enough evidence to charge that person of interest. And Mayor Smiley said the probe was going, quote, in another direction. Chief Perez said it's not a mistake. It's just how investigations work. And he also told reporters on Monday this.

I think that, you know, all the effect is brought this nation and then they'll understand that. that when you investigate in a case, you take different paths. You know, you start somewhere, you start here, and all of a sudden something else pops off and you're going in a different direction. And that's what happened. It's complex. I'm also going to say it was reported by the Boston Globe that this was very confusing

because just before 5 p.m. that day of the shooting, the university apparently did mistakenly say a suspect was in custody. And about 30 minutes later, there was an unsubstantiated report of additional shots fired at Governor Street. Again, not true. So what do we have? this surveillance footage that we want to talk about, right? So authorities mentioned initially an 11-second surveillance video from the building where the shooting happened that was released

of a person walking very quickly. They believe that's the suspect. Mayor Smiley telling CNN, quote, that this is the clearest picture we have of the individual. We believe to be responsible, but that doesn't mean that there isn't other evidence. Witnesses also reportedly told authorities that this person may have been wearing a camouflage mask. This is according to Tim O'Hara, the deputy Chief of Providence Police. The subject in that video appears to be wearing dark clothing, a knit cap, walking down Hope Street, rounding the corner. But then there was additional video that was released of this person walking in, you kind of see it from different angles, different directions. So this was defined as this individual coming from the area of Hope Street. Again,

this was retrieved at 2 p.m. on Saturday, the 13th. They say this is the same individual from the first surveillance video that officials released. The problem is, as laid out by Attorney General Naranha, there wasn't a lot of video footage in the area, saying there just weren't a lot of cameras in that brown building. Adding the reality is it's an old building attached to a new one. I don't know what to tell you, but we're going to go out and find whatever evidence we can to solve this case as quickly as we can. I mean, we're not holding back a video that we think would be useful, and I don't think I should even have to say it. Now, this is before all those other videos came out. According to NBC News, this was a first floor lecture classroom where the shooting happened.

The doors were apparently open because final exams were being conducted at the time. But O'Hara did say it is unknown how he entered the building, but we do know that he exited the Hope Street side of that complex. Now, taking a step back here, this is an awful attack. Awful attack. The New York Times reported that first-year student Spencer Yang, who was injured in this shooting, helped another victim as they were hiding from the gunman. He said, I handed him my water. He wasn't able to respond that well. He was just there nodding and making noise. Doctoral engineering student, Chang Heng Chien, who was working at a campus lab, told NBC affiliate WJAR of Providence, we decided to turn the lights

off and close all the doors and hide under our desks. Can you imagine that? Shelter and Place Advisory was in effect at one point for the 11,000 students on campus and also for the surrounding neighborhoods. It was lifted on Sunday. USA Today confirmed that the University's Department of Public Safety said it would be more than doubling its staffing. You had a holiday Christmas tree and Hanukkah menorah lighting ceremony on Sunday

that was turned into a candlelight vigil for the shooting victims with several hundred people gathered at Lippet Park. According to the Providence Journal, Rabbi Sarah Mack of Temple Bethel said, we gather this evening in stunned grief, in stunned shock. We can use our light to kindle more light, that is how we get through this dark moment. Now I want to talk about the people who died.

One of the two people killed has been identified as 19-year-old student Ella Cook. Her church, Cathedral Church of the Advent in Birmingham, Alabama, announced her name as one of the people who was killed with the Reverend Craig Smalley saying to the congregation, she was an incredible, grounded, faithful, bright light, not only growing up here in the ways, She encouraged and lifted up those around her, but at Brown University, she was an incredible light there as well. She was also the vice president of Brown's College Republicans with Lieutenant Governor of Alabama Will Ainsworth sang on X.

Ella was a devoted Christian and a committed conservative who represented the very best of Alabama. A bright future was ended much too soon. The other person killed has been identified as Mikhammed, Aziz, Umar Zokhov, the American Uzbekistan Association, writing on a post on Facebook. It is with profound sorrow that we mourn the tragic loss of Muhammad Aziz Umrazokov, a bright and promising Uzbek American student who was killed on December 13, 2025 in the shooting at Brown University.

He was known for his sharp intellect, kind heart, and quiet willingness to help anyone in need. He carried himself with humility and compassion, earning the respect and affection of those around him. His curiosity, discipline, and generosity reflected both his character and the value. of the community that raised him. More than a gifted student, Aziz was a beloved son, brother, and friend. He had a future filled with promise and his life was cut short far too soon.

His passing has left an immeasurable void in the hearts of his family, friends, classmates, and the broader Uzbek American community. Brown Sr., Anika Mons, told CNN's John Berman, quote, I think that things are going to be a lot different from now on, just security-wise. I'm just hoping that they're able to learn a little more on how we can keep the campus safer.

I think even just walking out of my house is going to feel different. President Donald Trump saying to reporters over the weekend, what a terrible thing it is, and all we can do right now is pray for the victims and for those that were very badly hurt. But he did add at a later date, you'd really have to ask the school a little bit more

about that because this was a school problem. They had their own guards, they had their own police, and their own everything. But you have to ask that question really to the school, not to the FBI. We came in after the fact, and the FBI, I will do a good job, but they came in after the fact. University President Christina H. Paxson said in a message to the school's community that the shooting represented, quote, a deeply tragic day for Brown, our families, and our local community.

So I want to bring on right now, Bobby Chacon, retired FBI agent attorney. Good to see you. Thanks so much for taking the time, Bobby. What are your thoughts on this manhunt right now? I'll tell you, the FBI released a statement right now on X. It says FBI agents and analysts are working closely with law enforcement partners, to track leads and gather intelligence to identify the person responsible for the mass shooting that occurred at Brown University. Members of the FBI evidence response team and specialists from the FBI laboratory are also assisting in processing and documenting evidence from the scene. As the investigation develops, the FBI will continue to provide assets, resources, and personnel to support our partners in seeking justice for the victims and their loved ones.

So with that in mind, what's your take on where we are right now in the Manhattan? Well, you know, it's hard to start a manhunt before you know the person you're looking for, right? Because think of all the things that when we do know somebody, you know, where that they go, are they a survivalist, are they a city person, you know, all the different things that go into trying to figure out where someone is headed when they're on the run. A lot of that is personality based or it's based on that individual person. So it's really hard to start a manhunt. Now you can do it.

I mean, the Mangioni case a little bit was like that. You had a basic description. But until we find out who this is, so they're working really hard to identify who this person is. And then you can kind of go into that person's background, how much money they might have available to them, where they like to spend their time and their skill sets. And that kind of determines where you kind of direct your manhunt. And then you can follow the cash trail or the credit transaction trails and stuff. But until you actually definitively identify the person, the manhunt is skeletal at best. How confident are you that the surveillance footage videos that have been released in the photos of this person are actually going to lead to an identification?

It's really difficult to see who that person is. Yeah, well, right now what's happening is they're getting more and more video in, and they have more than they've released. Because what they have to do, once they get it, they have to view it, right? Once they view it, they have to figure out, is this the actual person or is this somebody else dressed similarly that morning or whatever, that afternoon? So they have to make sure it's that person They have to make sure the video is legitimate We all know AI is out there We know people get a thrill for whatever reason

On forwarding fake videos So you have a lot of stuff going on When the videos come in Can the video be enhanced before we actually release it And things like that And so they have more video And they'll be releasing it as they get confident that Number one, it's not fake, number two

It is the person that they're interested in And number three, if they've enhanced it where to the maximum extent they can and then they release videos that's where the public comes in that's where the viewers come in somebody recognizes the way this person walks

or dresses or moves there's one video where he kind of puts his hands behind his back and he kind of just you know that's a particular affect that people have and so like if you recognize that person then you might pick up a phone that's kind of why they're pushing this video out

to kind of force multiply and everybody out there looking becomes part of the investigative team. How much does the $50,000 reward help? Sure, it helps in a case like this as much. It helps a little bit. It's not like the $15 million reward we see for the snowboard cartel leader in Mexico

because, you know, there's a lot more poor people in Mexico, that money can, and that's a lot more money. I think in this case, I mean, it helps, but I don't think it's as helpful as in other cases where a reward is much higher. and the person's hiding in a much different place. There's been frustration on the part of the investigation here. I mean, there was this whole idea about, well, they had a person of interest who was detained.

There seemed to be early signals that we caught, we caught the guy, and then the person was released. And as you can see, there are a lot of questions that are being fielded towards authorities about what happened here. Is this different from what you've seen? Is this particular? Is this unique? Or are you saying, this is just an investigation? You know, you can't fault law enforcement for finding a person of interest here, but they looked into it and said, you know, wasn't involved. But you can understand the frustration on the part of the public where they're seeing this.

And maybe the communication was a little off about it. You tell me. I mean, I always look at it from the investigator standpoint. So maybe the public did misperceive, but that person was a person of interest. It doesn't. The fact that they ruled him out doesn't mean he wasn't a person of interest. He actually was a person of interest. Do you feel like the communications from authority? were a little bit too definitive. Like, everybody can rest easier.

This is how we call it. Well, I think that part of it, yes, yes. I agree that, you know, the Providence Police Department should not have lifted the shelter-in-place order. That's one thing that kind of lets people know, because that turns the person of interest into a suspect, and that didn't happen yet. The investigators did not do that yet. And so by the authorities, by the higher-ups in the police department and in the city administration,

lifting the shelter-in-place order, it tells the public we have a high degree of confidence that this person of interest is the guy we're looking for. You shouldn't do that because the investigators haven't told you that. The investigators are interviewing that person. They're vetting him. They're going through all the outside information that they've collected about that person.

And this is just due diligence. I mean, we bring in people of interest all the time. That's why we call them people of interest and not suspects because they're only people of interest. We have enough external information to make them interesting to us and let's look at them a little closer. Now, in a violent crime like this, you want to take them into custody while they're in that category because God knows they could actually perpetrate more crimes. So you hold on to them as long as legally possible or as long as it takes to vet them out and say,

okay, this isn't the guy. And so that's a natural part of investigation. That part investigation didn't bother me. They were no balls dropped. There was nothing like that. I think the one main thing that the mistake was was to lift the shelter in place too early because they didn't listen to the investigators who said, hey, we're still looking into this guy. We don't not sure he's the guy.

So don't lift the shelter in place. That's, I think, gave the, that's what gave the public mixed signals. And what about this idea of putting the impetus on Brown University, the blame on Brown University, you know, Rhode Island Governor Dan McKee said that there's going to be a review of school safety measures, Brown University seems to have been criticized for having a lack of camera footage. There was an accusation that was refuted by the mayor about do they have digital evidence that they're not sharing with law enforcement. He refuted that, said they're collaborating. But Brown University is in the spotlight right now.

Your thoughts on that? Well, I think that every time one of these things happen, there should be a thorough look at how it was able to be carried out. And are there lessons to be learned here that we can apply so that at least in this way it doesn't happen? again. So we can kind of close some of the gaps in our security that clearly existed. So I'm not sure about blame. There may be blame. Once the investigation of how this happened is complete, then is the time to maybe assign blame. Not yet, I don't think. But I do think that always, in almost every instance where something like this happens, it demands a thorough examination of how it happened and all their lessons to be learned. What is being done behind the

as opposed to looking at that surveillance footage. I mentioned before there was a discussion about doing ballistics analysis, trajectory of the bullets at the crime scene to do a crime scene reconstruction. What are they trying to find there? Yeah, well, what they're trying to find in me as an investigation what I'd be most likely, most wanting to know is who was the first person shot? Because if this was a targeted killing, that killer got into that building specifically, went to that classroom specifically to find a specific individual.

When they enter that classroom, they would have went right to that individual and shot them first if, in fact, it was a target individual, which, you know, it could be. So oftentimes in these situations where it's an enclosed space where shooting starts happening, there's chaos, right? You can't know, you don't know the second, third, fourth, or fifth person shot, but you do oftentimes know who the first person shot is because nothing's happened yet. So people are still looking around. Oh, I heard, I looked over, I saw this guy walk into the room and I saw who he shot. Then I dove under a desk, or then I ran out of the room. So I didn't see the second one. But oftentimes you do get some information on the first person that was shot.

And so that's what I'd want to know now. I'm sure on Sunday or Saturday night, they were in that hospital. They were interviewing surviving victims and anybody else that was in that classroom that could speak. Now, saving of lives always comes first and the caring for the wounded, obviously. So as soon as they had the opportunity, I'm sure they were trying to get a picture of who was the first person shot in this room because that if it was an intended victim that gives you motive and that might point you to who did this so I would want to know who was the first person shot maybe who was the second if you have that much time but like said once that first shot goes out people are diving

on a desk running out the room if they can and and stuff and then that's when chaos really rains and you can't really get a good picture what happened but I think that they can get a good handle on who the first person shot was do you think that this could be somebody who who is connected to Brown University in some way, whether a student, former student, faculty, because there were aspects of this where it seemed there had to be a level of knowledge, right? Like knowing the doors might be open,

it was final exam prep time, knowing where to go. Is this a case where investigators then look to see anybody had any grudges against the university or that particular class? I mean, how does that work? Because it seemed to be very, very specific, knowing exactly where to go. Am I totally off with that?

No, I mean, that's the exact path investigators are going on, the one you just described. So what you do is you list your victims. Who was in that classroom and who was shot? Do they have enemies? Do they have, like, when the first thing I heard, when I heard, you know, was a female sophomore from Alabama when it was killed,

the first thing I thought of, did she have a stalker? You know, young college girls sometimes get stalkers. We saw that, you know, in Idaho and things like that. So look at your victims. did someone have a beef with somebody? Did someone have a romantic relationship that ended recently? All of those things, financial disagreements, anything that any of those people had going on in their lives

that could indicate a grudge or a beef with somebody else that might want to do them harm. So absolutely, you're on the right track. List everybody that was in that room and go through their lives. And do they have somebody that didn't like them? You know, look at their social media. Do they have people that were stalking them? And those kind of things.

That's also a large part of the act of investigation right now, I would bet. Now, obviously, the community is very scared. There's no active threats in the area as far as we understand, but there still seems to be a sense of unease and fear. As far as I could see, based on the reporting, they couldn't confirm one way or another whether this person of interest, this suspect, is still in the area. You heard the mayor talk about that the city is providing enhanced police coverage

at Brown University and throughout the city. What does that mean? What does that tell you? Well, it tells me first that they're not, they don't have a definitive identity or cause so that they don't have, okay, this person was targeted. Because oftentimes that's what you hear, right? When we say, okay, the threat, this was a targeted thing.

The person was only after this other person. They're not looking to, you know, kill people at large. They don't know that yet, apparently. That's what it means to me. They don't know if there's a ongoing threat. to the public at large or sometimes even if it's a targeted

it doesn't have to be a targeted individual it could be a targeted group of people a click or a group of people somebody who's ostracized or something like that so they don't know for sure like who the intended victim was and the motivation behind it yet that's what it tells me once they have that

once you know oh this was a romantic thing a spurned boyfriend a stalker then you can say okay stand down the community at large is not at risk. We kind of know what the intention was here and things like that. But it doesn't seem like they've gotten to that point yet. It doesn't seem like they've said, okay, this is why this happened. Bobby, given what we've talked about so far,

are you surprised there hasn't been an arrest as of yet? I mean, to couple what we talked about, surveillance footage issues, Lee Ding, a student at the Rhode Island School of Design, also dances at Brown University, told the Associated Press, the fact that we're in such a surveillance state, but that wasn't used correctly at all, is just so deeply frustrating. I think, honestly, the students are doing a more effective job

at taking care of each other than the police. So this is an idea of to move forward with increased security at campus buildings, but at the same time, you have to wonder, people will look at this and say, wait a minute, how is it possible, given where this happened, given the amount of manpower that's being factored in here, ATF, FBI, Homeland Security, Providence Police, they haven't caught somebody yet. They haven't arrested anybody yet. Is that surprising to you? No. In a way, yes and no. In a way, it is because if this is a targeted attack,

then you kind of can zero in on your suspects quickly. In other words, if this guy had walked into, say, the student union or, you know, a quad where a bunch of people and just randomly shot people, then it's much harder to get an idea. But he walked into a specific building, into a specific classroom where a specific group of people were gathered. And so that tells me that they had the intention of going there because he probably passed through other groups of students

to get there before he started shooting. So why did he start shooting in that classroom at those specific people that leads you to why this happened, that leads you to who did this, and then leads obviously to getting the person. But as far as like grabbing the, them in the custody. Look, if someone is hell-bent on carrying an attack like this and they have the financial resources to kind of have a getaway ticket and to fly somewhere and go right to an

airport, it never really surprises me that it takes a while to get the person in custody. Sometimes it surprised me that you haven't identified him yet. But people get away. I mean, we've seen this all the, you know, a lot. Even when we know who he is, the father out West, we killed there's three kids and then went to the woods. I mean, you do see people get away because they've planned it properly. It is a little bit concerning that we haven't had a reason why this happened and a person identified as who, even if you don't have him in custody, at least you can start clustering his picture all over the place and then people would maybe spot him like happened in the

Luigi Mangione thing when the person of McDonald's called and said, hey, I think that guy you're talking about is in our restaurant. sure enough it was. So I think that it doesn't surprise me that he's not in custody yet because that all goes into how much planning they did, you know, post event. They said, okay, I'm going to do this shooting, and then I'm going to get on this train, and then I'm going to go to this place. You know, it depends. It does surprise me that they haven't identified who it was yet, specifically because it seems very specific, specific building, specific room, specific people gathered in that room. So that kind of surprised me. And I'm not saying they don't. They might have that

information and for whatever reason, I haven't put it out yet. I don't know. Well, let me ask you this. Do you think there will be an arrest within hours, within days? That's my hope. My hope is that they know a lot more than they're telling us. And that happens because sometimes if you have information on who it is and you're closing in on them, you don't want to publicize it because you don't want to spook them and put them on the run. That could be the case where they know who it is. They don't really need the public's assistance right now. I'm just saying this as a hypothetical. They could know possibly who it is and they're closing in on him

and they want to capture him before he knows that they know who he is. In other words, once they know, once he sees his name or his picture on the news, he's going to hunker down or he's going to take off. Right now he has a measure of security, some comfort that they don't know who he is. If they're playing that game, if they know who he is and they're closing in on him and they don't want to put it to the public because then it heightens his awareness and he might take off. That's my hope. And if that's the case, then we could see an arrest be imminent in the hours or days ahead. But, you know, if that's not the case and they're still looking for why this

happened and they don't even know who did it, then an arrest could be further off. Bobby Chaconne, thank you so much for coming on, breaking it down for us in real time what's happening here with this investigation. Really, really appreciate you. Thank you. Always a pleasure, you guys. Thanks. all we have for you right now here on Sidebar, everybody. Thank you so much for joining us. And as always, please subscribe on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you should get your podcast. You can follow me on X or Instagram. I'm Jesse Weber. I'll speak to you next time. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.