Law&Crime Sidebar - International Manhunt on for Olympian Tied Hit Job, Drug Ring: FBI

Episode Date: November 22, 2025

Ryan Wedding — a former Olympic snowboarder — is now accused of becoming one of the world’s most violent drug kingpins. Prosecutors say he ran a billion-dollar cocaine empire, ordered multiple murders, and even hunted down a federal witness. Law&Crime’s Jesse Weber breaks down the explosive new indictment with criminal defense attorney Eric Faddis.PLEASE SUPPORT THE SHOW: Grow your own audience today – go to https://www.opus.pro/sidebar and get 65% off an annual Opus Pro plan for the month of November.HOST:Jesse Weber: https://twitter.com/jessecordweberLAW&CRIME SIDEBAR PRODUCTION:YouTube Management - Bobby SzokeVideo Editing - Michael Deininger, Christina O'Shea, Alex Ciccarone, & Jay CruzScript Writing & Producing - Savannah Williamson & Juliana BattagliaGuest Booking - Alyssa Fisher & Diane KayeSocial Media Management - Vanessa BeinSTAY UP-TO-DATE WITH THE LAW&CRIME NETWORK:Watch Law&Crime Network on YouTubeTV: https://bit.ly/3td2e3yWhere To Watch Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3akxLK5Sign Up For Law&Crime's Daily Newsletter: https://bit.ly/LawandCrimeNewsletterRead Fascinating Articles From Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3td2IqoLAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandcrime/Twitter: https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetworkFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawandcrimeTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lawandcrimenetworkTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lawandcrimeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can binge all episodes of this Law and Crimes series ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Today, the Justice Department is proud to announce new developments in our ongoing investigation into Ryan James Wedding. He's currently on the FBI's and has been top 10 most wanted list. He controls one of the most prolific and violent drug trafficking organizations in this world. Ryan Wedding, that Canadian snowboarder from the 2002 Olympic Games, is now one of the world's most wanted men, accused of running a billion-dollar international drug empire. And in a shocking escalation, he is accused of orchestrating the murder of a federal witness who was gunned down in a Colombian restaurant.

This is shocking, to say the least. The question now is, how does an athlete allegedly build a criminal operation of this purported scale and brutality? And what does it take to bring a fugitive of this magnitude to justice? We are going to break it all down with criminal defense attorney and former prosecutor, Eric Fattis. Welcome to Sidebar. Presented by Law and Crime. I'm Jesse Weber. Real quick, if you're in the content creation game, if you're putting a lot out there on social media,

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Opus Clip is your one-stop shop. And having a tool like Opus Clip means that our producers can get you viral courtroom updates instantly. This is the most powerful tool there is to help you share ideas and edit like a pro. So go to Opus.combeau slash sidebar to create your videos today. And also, for November only, you can get 65% off of an annual plan. You may know his face from Olympic glory. But now, Ryan Wedding, he is the man that the FBI calls a modern-day Pablo Escobar. According to a superseding indictment that was unsealed in the Central District of California,

the former Canadian snowboarder who once competed for his country is now accused of running a billion-dollar international drug empire. U.S. authorities claim that he is the largest distributor of cocaine in Canada, flooding the U.S. with enough narcotics each year to equal the weight of 40 cars. Now, this story, as laid out by the Department of Justice, it gets even more sinister. After being indicted, wedding is now accused of orchestrating the murder of a federal witness who was set to testify against him. The FBI claims that this witness was gunned down in a restaurant in Colombia. The State Department has raised the reward for his capture to a staggering $15 million, calling him one of the world's most dangerous fugitives.

So the question becomes, if these allegations are true, how did an Olympian become an alleged drug lord? What is his shocking indictment reveal about the brutal nature, the reach of this alleged criminal enterprise? So I want to connect the dots here. Try to understand this because it's shocking, to say the least, how a promising athlete became one of the world's most wanted men. It all starts back in 2002 in Salt Lake City. You have a young Canadian snowboarder named Ryan Wedding. He was just 20 years old, and he competed for his country in the parallel giant slalom. Now, he didn't meddle. He finished 24th, but he was an Olympian. And after his athletic career ends, this is when things allegedly take a dark turn. Because by 2008, court records show that he was arrested in California for trying to buy cocaine from a U.S. government agent in a sting operation. He's convicted in 2010, serves about three years in U.S. prison. And once he's released and back in Canada, authorities claim that the scale of his operations explode. According to reporting from CBC in 20,

2015, the RCMP, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, charge him in Montreal as part of a massive cocaine trafficking ring. But this is the critical moment, okay? He apparently doesn't stick around to face the music. No, prosecutors believe that he flees to Mexico. And for the last decade, he has been on the run according to them. He is accused of building his empire from afar. And I got to tell you, what an empire this reportedly became. From his base in Mexico, authorities alleged that Wedding began overseeing a transnational machine with a second in command named Andrew Clark. He is accused of working directly with the Sinaloa cartel, one of the most powerful and violent

criminal organizations in the world. The product was cocaine, sourced from labs in Colombia. The route was through Mexico, across the U.S. border, and into Southern California. Los Angeles and the surrounding counties, they became, allegedly, his logistics hub, where the drugs were stored before being shipped north by a Canada-based. transportation network using long-haul semi-trucks. This is allegedly a real organization, a complex organization. And the numbers, I got to say, are almost incomprehensible. Federal prosecutors claim that his organization was responsible for importing 60 metric tons of

cocaine into the U.S. every single year. And to put that into perspective, that is roughly the weight of 40 standard cars. But according to authorities, moving that much product, it requires absolute control, and that is where the alleged violence comes in. The indictment lays out a pattern of brutal killings that were used to settle scores and enforce discipline. That's their narrative. That's what the prosecution is going to allege if this goes to trial. And in one instance, he is accused of ordering a hit on a Canadian trucking dispatcher that he believed stole a 300-kilogram shipment from him. The assassins allegedly broke into the wrong house in Ontario in November of 2023, killing two innocent people, seriously injuring a third,

mistakenly believing they were this dispatcher's family. And the violence didn't stop there. He's also accused of ordering another murder in May of 2024 over a drug debt. Plus, an April 1st, 2024 murder in Ontario carried out by Clark and an associate named Malick Cunningham. This is another allegation. The case that put wedding on the FBI's 10 most wanted list in March of 2025 was already massive. But what happened next is what elevated this from a drug case to something out of a thriller, okay? Because after his indictment was concealed, a federal witness was set to testify against him. And in January of 2025, that witness was located at a restaurant in many Ian Columbia. A gunman apparently walked in and shot him five times in the head. U.S. authorities say it was

Ryan Wedding, who ordered that hit, placing a $5 million bounty on the witness's head, with Chapman paying to have a photo of the man posted online on a website to help track him down. And this operation was sophisticated. They apparently used an $18,500 phone interception tool to track the witness and had a photographer document the corpse as proof. So that act led to this week's dramatic escalation. The reward for weddings capture was raised to $15 million. And in Operation Giant Slalom, 10 of his alleged associates were arrested in a coordinated international takedown

with 18 additional defendants being named. And it's a group that included a Canadian lawyer, a reggaeton musician, the operator of that very website that I mentioned before. Plus, you have some key alleged money launderers like professional poker player Roland Sokolowski, Bianca Canistio Madrid. and a new sprawling indictment was unsealed, charging wedding directly with this witness's murder. Now, the financial scale is staggering because the indictment alleges that wedding moved over $207 million through a tether cryptocurrency wallet,

using a sophisticated laundering system to hide, again, what is assumed to be, billions of dollars worth of profits. So now the manhunt is more intense than ever, and the former Olympian, known on the street, is giant, and El Hefe is believed to be hiding in Mexico, protected by the very cartel that he works with. That's the allegation. He is six foot three, giant indeed. And the FBI believes that his size and his notoriety make him hard to hide.

But so far, this is a guy who's managed to evade capture for 10 years, proving just how powerful and elusive that if these allegations are true, this alleged kingpin has become. So how does an operation of this scale and brutality actually work? What are the real legal challenges in bringing a fugitive of this magnitude to justice if these allegations are true? How do they handle a case like this? Are they going to catch wedding? I mean, that's a big question. So to break all this down, I want to bring in criminal defense attorney and former felony prosecutor, Eric Fattis. Eric, thank you so much for coming on.

I just got to say, as I laid all this out, I'm still in shock of these allegations. I mean, I've heard of drug operations before. I've heard of cartels. I've never heard of a civilian, right? Somebody who was a former Olympian accused of doing something like this. I mean, you look at this alleged progression, this timeline. This is, I mean, just your reaction to something like this. Oh, gosh.

I mean, you know, very unexpected. A lot of people, this is the last person they thought would be involved in such serious allegations. You know, according to reports, Cash Patel, the director of FBI, is characterizing Ryan Wedding as a modern-day Chapo Guzman, a modern-day Pablo Escobar, and that's just such a far cry from how the public knew him as this former Olympian snowboard. And you, my understanding is you have prosecuted high-level drug traffickers in the past. When you hear about the operation, there is an element of such complexity. There are these moving parts.

this was a real organization. Were you surprised that if the allegations are true, that he has been able to be operating in this space for so long? And by the way, currently hasn't been captured. Well, Jesse, without a doubt, if the allegations are true, this is a complex, sophisticated, multinational drug trafficking ring at which Ryan Wedding was at the helm. And you're right.

You know, there are so many witnesses. you look at the indictment itself. There are so many individuals listed there. All of these witnesses supplies different alleged incidents that span multiple countries here. And so it's going to be a massive undertaking by the federal government to try to bring these folks to justice, assuming that these allegations are true. How do they prosecute a case like this? When you're talking about multiple people indicted all different parts of this alleged operation, this feels like a, again, a massive undertaking.

What is the goal of an indictment like this? How do prosecutors structure it? Are they going to be trying to work out deals to try to get Ryan Wedding to maybe get some information about his whereabouts? How does this work? Right, Jesse. So I'm sure during the investigative phase, there were things like wiretaps. There were things like confidential informants and things of that sort. And then when it comes to the prosecution, it is so multi-layered.

There are so many moving pieces. is you have to not only apprehend these folks, and it's going to be difficult to find them. They're hiding. They're probably using aliases. They might be using false appearances, even. But you have to get your ducks in a row. You have to line up your witnesses, get them under subpoena.

I'm sure they are going to arrest some of the lower level folks. Try to turn them into cooperating witnesses for the government against Ryan Wedding. But getting all of those things together and having it happen in America is going to be difficult, considering that all of these folks are sort of spanned out across multiple nations, Canada, America, Mexico, and others. What did you make of the federal murder charge, right? Because it's not just about drug trafficking. It's about alleged violence that he's accused of ordering assassinations, the assassination

of that federal witness. Is that, I would imagine, that's common to see that level of violence if you're talking about a drug operation. Again, still shocking to take the allegations as true that a former Olympian. and that's at the head of it, but when you talk about the payment structure, the casing of the area, the photographs, I mean, the idea of posting on this Canadian website, you know, the dirty news, to post pictures of the witness to track them down, using technology, to track the witness down. That's a, that's brazen and a level of sophistication, but it leads into this

federal murder charge, right? Oh, exactly. And, you know, it's common for criminal organizations to want to avoid prosecution and conviction by eliminating witnesses who might bring evidence against them in those cases. That's one of the allegations here. And, you know, alarmingly, that might not be the last alleged instance of witness intimidation or even killing of a witness as the players in this whole scheme become more public. And as the cartels learn of who is sort of informing. against them, we could see even more violence. On top of that, like you mentioned, there are

financial crimes that are alleged, even involving cryptocurrency. There's going to be a document trail. And so, you know, so many different types of alleged crimes that go into this larger conspiracy case. He's been a fugitive since 2015, and for nearly a decade, he's evaded capture, reportedly protected by the Sinaloa cartel. What makes that difficult? How is that complicated to try to catch him, to try to, you know, even if there's, is it a failure of international cooperation, is their protections, are there trade, you know, there's specific things that they have to do? Because I think that makes it very, very difficult. Even with the federal government raising the war to $15 million for information leading to his capture,

this is still going to be a massive undertaking, right? Yes. And I mean, to a lot of these folks who might have knowledge, you know, 15 billions a ton of money, but that's not necessarily worth their life. You know, I think they have a very real fear that if they, you know, let's say they see Ryan down in Mexico somewhere. They're going to be disinclined to go to the government, to go to authorities, certainly go to the American government, and say, oh, yeah, hey, he's right here because, you know, in a week from that, from that time, they could have put themselves in grave peril. And so just locating him is going to be difficult. And then if he's out of the country, there's an extradition process.

If he makes to a country like Vietnam, they don't extradite to America. And so my apprehension is that he is probably making travel plans as we speak if he has not effectuated those already. And I'm going to go more into the indictment and get your perspective on different aspects of it. But let's say he is captured and let's say he does go to trial on a plethora of different charges here. what is a realistic legal outcome for him? Because I am curious what is a possible defense that he could mount in other federal drug trafficking cases where drug kingpins or alleged drug kingpins were brought to trial. What are some of the defenses that you see and what is a realistic legal outcome based on this?

You know, if these allegations are proven at trial, he's looking at decades and decades in prison, probably his entire life. But that's not going to be as easy as some folks might think. You know, within these larger criminal organizations, there are so many layers. There are so many levels of authority. And so, you know, they're saying that Ryan Wedding ordered a hit on somebody. Well, how do you prove that? Do you have text messages?

He probably didn't put it in an email. And so you've got to tie it to him. And that's going to be difficult when there are actual other people carrying out his his alleged bid it. And so, you know, he's going to try to remove himself from that organization and say, hey, look, this was all other folks doing this kind of stuff. I kind of got caught in the crosshairs. And on top of that, he even might try to strike a deal with the government. You never know. And let me ask you this. Oh, you mean, oh, you mean him being a witness against other members of a cartel. Sure. Yeah. I mean, you look at the Chapo

Guzman case, my understanding is that there was a family member, it might have been his son or something who was cooperating at one point with the government. And so it wouldn't be unheard of even for high-level folks in such a sophisticated criminal organization to explore that option. If these allegations are true, is one of the things that kept him, I don't know if it's under the radar or able to create an organization like this. Again, if these allegations are true, because he's not somebody who was born, you know, in a foreign country. that was, you know, part of a family, part of a cartel from the beginning, that he has such a, he was a civilian. Is that one of the things that maybe helped him, again, if these allegations

are true to be able to pull off something like this? Well, gosh, I mean, he's not the typical person that immediately comes to mind when you think of some allegedly murderous, a large drug cartel. He's, you know, he's the former Olympian. And so perhaps there was sort of less eyes on him as this alleged criminal enterprise grew and continued its conduct. And he was able to sort of fly under the radar and avoid detection. You know, he's not, at least from the outset, wasn't associating with folks who are, you know, career criminals and that kind of thing. It seems like there was some kind of turning point. And I think the public is really looking at how things evolved into the place that we're at presently. Yeah, the sheer scale of these

allegations, it demanded a response from the very top of American law enforcement. And that is why we saw this response on November 19th in a press conference from the U.S. Department of Justice. You had Attorney General Pam Bondi who laid out the charges, painted a picture of a criminal operation that she called, quote, one of the most prolific and violent in the world. Take a look. Today, the Justice Department is proud to announce new developments in our ongoing investigation into Ryan James Wedding. Wedding is the former Olympic. from Canada, who is now the leader of a transnational criminal enterprise. He's currently on the FBI's and has been top 10 most wanted list.

He controls one of the most prolific and violent drug trafficking organizations in this world. He is currently the largest distributor of cocaine in Canada. Wedding collaborates closely with the Sinaloa cartel, a foreign terrorist organization, to flood not only American, but also Canadian communities with cocaine coming from Colombia. His organization is responsible for importing approximately 60 metric tons of cocaine a year into Los Angeles via semi-trucks from Mexico. To put that in perspective, 60 metric tons is approximately 40, the weight of 40 standard cars. Imagine that. That's how much cocaine, the weight of 40 cars, he is bringing into our country a year. In the course of the investigation, more than 35 individuals have been

indicted. Over 2,000 kilos and numerous weapons have been seized. Approximately $3.2 million in cryptocurrency has been recovered, and over 13 million in physical assets has been confiscated. Wedding is also accused of murdering a federal witness after he was indicted in 2024. for. He used a Canadian website called the Dirty News to post photographs of the witness and his wife in order to locate him, which ultimately succeeded. The witness was gunned down in a restaurant in Medellin before he could testify against wedding. And then you had FBI director Cash Patel who stepped to the podium, and he made a stunning comparison. Okay, we talked about this before, putting Ryan Wedding in a category with the most notorious drug lords in history.

Make no mistake about it. Ryan Wedding is a modern day iteration of Pablo Escobar. He's a modern day iteration of El Chapo Guzman. This Justice Department and this FBI will work with our Canadian counterparts and the government officials across the world to bring him to justice. He is responsible for engineering a narco-trafficking and narco-terrorism program that we have not seen in a long time. He will not evade justice. We are here today because this Department of Justice behind Attorney General's brilliant leadership and the Deputy Attorney General have made it clear to the American people with the indictments they have brought that law enforcement and agencies like this FBI will lead the effort to go out there and make sure these animals

are brought to justice. And that's exactly what we will do. And finally, the official from the U.S. Attorney's Office in Los Angeles, where the case is going to be prosecuted, sent a direct message to Wedding and his entire organization. Your days are numbered. Our agents and prosecutors will relentlessly pursue you and anyone who assist you and bring you to justice. Not just anywhere, we're going to bring you to justice in the United States of America.

And I want to just add a couple things here. Mr. Wedding is the most prolific cocaine trafficker in Canada, but he used Southern California, my district, as a hub, for his logistics. to move the cocaine. The reason he selected California is because of California's weak laws on crime. They knew if they were popped with cocaine in California, they probably wouldn't get much of a sentence. But they made one big miscalculation. They didn't think about us, the U.S. Department of Justice, Attorney General Bondi, and what this administration would do

to individuals like him who use the United States to traffic their drugs. And he will be brought to justice. I'm confident of that. Eric, to hear these statements, what stands out to you? Clearly, it has been an objective of the Trump administration to go after drug trafficking, certainly to go after international drug trafficking when the source is outside of our country. You know, you heard from the federal prosecutor a comment about California's drug loss. So there are some political undertones here that I think are motivating this prosecution. but that being said, you know, they're allowed to go after drug traffickers. That's their job.

And so it sounds like they are going to do so with zeal and fervor. And this is going to be something that continues to escalate within the legal system. And I'll be interested to see how it plays out. Yeah. And talk to me real quick, because before we get into the indictment, you had the U.S. attorney said that they're going to bring him to justice in the United States. But if he's being protected abroad, how does a capture like this work exactly? Is it a negotiated surrender? Is it a raid? Do the foreign authorities get involved? What exactly are we looking at here? You know, I don't anticipate Ryan Wedding, you know, waving the white flag and saying, hey, I'm over here, come give me. I think what the federal government's going to have to do is they're going to have to

work hand in hand with their international counterparts in law enforcement to try and identify where he is and then effectuate an apprehension, even if they locate him. Like you said, he is likely going to be protected by the communities out there. And, you know, in America, we think of the FBI going in and doing a raid in some trap house or whatever. But in other countries in Mexico, it's not that smooth. It's not that easy. And it could be, exponentially dangerous to try and apprehend him and bring him to this country for prosecution. And real quick, before I get into the indictment, what is the value of indicting him before arresting him? You know, I think a number of things.

One is that obviously there are pending charges. It has gone public and, you know, we're doing this show about it. So it's increasing public awareness and people are going to start to see these things and then perhaps notice him. So I think it's going to help potentially in the apprehension. It also allows them to apprehend other alleged co-conspirators and begin working on their cases, begin trying to flip them as witnesses while they're still trying to find wedding. So once they do get him, if they do, they're going to already be in a good position well-postered to move forward with the prosecution at that juncture.

I want to move into the actual indictment with you. So this is a massive document, but there are a few details that really illustrate the alleged scope and brutality of this. enterprise. The indictment, again, details that one alleged murder order from November of 2023. It states that wedding and his second in command, quote, issued an order to kill a TP driver, co-conspirator, a CC1, whom they believe stole 300 kilograms of cocaine from them. And the document then describes what was essentially the tragic result, because on November 20th, 23, members of that conspiracy broke into a rental property and, quote, shot and killed victims B and C and shot and wounded victim D, mistakenly believing they were CC1's family members.

Eric, I mean, that's interesting, right? Because how does charging wedding for a murder where he allegedly targeted the wrong people, how does that impact the case per se when you're trying to prove something like this? So there's a concept in the law, Jesse, called transferred intent, which essentially means if you intended to kill person A and you were a mistaken belief and you killed person B, that just kind of course somehow absolve you from murder. And so the fact that the shooters allegedly got it wrong doesn't somehow insulate any of the co-conspirators including wedding. But that being said, they're going to have to prove that these orders came from wedding and that this wasn't just some other. sort of, you know, intra-cartel dispute or inter-cartel dispute that resulted in bloodshed, which we see all of the time. Tying it to wedding is going to be difficult. And, you know, do they have text?

Do they have emails? Probably not. Now I want to talk about the witness murder, which is the centerpiece of this indictment, this new indictment. So the document is incredibly specific. It alleges that after his 2024 indictment, wedding's own lawyer allegedly advised him, and I'm quoting here, if victim A was killed, The charges against them and related extradition proceedings would necessarily be dismissed.

Okay, now, Eric, to get that advice from anybody, but allegedly from the lawyer, I mean, my gosh, what do you make of that? You know, there are ethical rules that prohibit attorneys in America from advising a client to engage in criminal wrongdoing. Now, it sounds like the attorney sort of tried to choose their words carefully and said, you know, hi, Beth, authentically, if this person was killed. But I think we can all sort of read through the lines there. And in fact, that lawyer styled in some reports as the cocaine lawyer is referenced in the indictment. And, you know, as an attorney, you cannot be materially involved in some kind of way, even if that's just giving legal advice to criminals on how to commit crimes. Can't do it. Yeah. And then the indictment describes the chilling. methodical hunt for this witness. It claims that Wedding placed a bounty and enlisted help,

including from this Canadian website, and it alleges that a co-conspirator paid the site's operator, quote, approximately $10,000 Canadian dollars not to post about defendant wedding and Clark, and instead to post about Victim A so that Enterprise members and associates could locate and kill Victim A. That's very, very specific here. Your thoughts on that element of this case. Yeah, well, like you said, it's sort of an audacious move to do something so public that can be just accessed on the internet that might be in reference to killing a person. And, you know, it's sort of putting a public bounty. You know, we think about in the Old West where it's said, you know, you see something on a signpost and it's a piece of paper saying, you know, wanted dead or alive for somebody.

this is essentially that in the criminal context in the 2025. And so, you know, certainly it might show intent. It might show a conscious objective on behalf of the person initiating all this. And certainly the person who paid for it was paying for it for a reason. And now we have this outcome. And finally, the indictment describes this assassination in stark, in very stark clinical detail. Because on January 31st, 2025, in Medellin,

it states, quote, LNU2 entered the restaurant, approached the table where victim A was eating, and shot victim A approximately five times in the head, killing victim A. And then alleges that immediately after the murder, Wedding himself sent a photograph of the victim's corpse to his associate. Now, Eric, again, if we're talking about a potential defense here, and trying every which way to make sure that he is not connected to that, this is where it becomes very specific, and this is where you can see federal authorities maybe are working with local law enforcement to get some of those details. But this could be a challenge for him, right? This could be a challenge for him to separate himself from something

like this. Oh, my gosh. Why have like a picture of a dead body on your phone and sending that to people, especially when the allegation is that you were directly tied to that and ordered that. It is, and it's kind of a bit of an amateurish misstep, which seems curious, considering how sophisticated the organization appeared to be otherwise. And so it's sort of, you know, in our modern era, these digital devices can be a trove of evidence and can be deeply incriminating, and certainly that allegation, if true, is. Talk to me realistically, before we wrap things up, what would a trial really look like? Is everybody tried together?

Is it multiple trials? I mean, what exactly would we be looking at? Yeah, you know, I think the federal government and the courts have some options here. It wouldn't be unusual to sever some of the cases, to sever some of the trials. You know, we're not going to have a trial where there's dozens of defendants and it's going to take, you know, a year or two years. Typically, that's not how it works. What will usually happen is a lot of those defendants will either plead guilty or, or not be found or, God forbid, die or something like that.

And so things will sort of get whittled down typically to leadership of the organization. And then that is when the case takes center stage and goes to trial. Can't still involve multiple defendants, but it's not going to be everybody who's referenced within that indictment. So it's sort of going to crescendo to a head as these legal proceedings progress through the courts. Eric Fattis, my gosh, thank you so much for coming on. Really, really appreciate it. What a case. Great to be with you.

And that's all we have for you right now here on Sidebar. Everybody, thank you so much for joining us. And as always, please subscribe on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you should get your podcast. You follow me on X or Instagram. I'm Jesse Weber. I'll speak to you next time. of this long crime series, ad free right now on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.