Law&Crime Sidebar - Intimacy Coordinator Spills Secrets as ‘It Ends with Us’ Legal Battle Rages

Episode Date: February 21, 2025

Following allegations of inappropriate behavior on the set of the film “It Ends with Us,” Blake Lively wanted Justin Baldoni to bring in an “intimacy coordinator” to make sure everything was being done above board. Law&Crime’s Jesse Weber spoke with intimacy coordinator Mia Schachter of Consent Wizardry about what the consultants do behind the scenes.PLEASE SUPPORT THE SHOW: Download the FREE Upside App at https://upside.app.link/sidebar to get an extra 25 cents back for every gallon on your first tank of gas.HOST:Jesse Weber: https://twitter.com/jessecordweberLAW&CRIME SIDEBAR PRODUCTION:YouTube Management - Bobby SzokeVideo Editing - Michael Deininger, Christina O'Shea & Christina FalconeScript Writing & Producing - Savannah Williamson & Juliana BattagliaGuest Booking - Alyssa Fisher & Diane KayeSocial Media Management - Vanessa BeinSTAY UP-TO-DATE WITH THE LAW&CRIME NETWORK:Watch Law&Crime Network on YouTubeTV: https://bit.ly/3td2e3yWhere To Watch Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3akxLK5Sign Up For Law&Crime's Daily Newsletter: https://bit.ly/LawandCrimeNewsletterRead Fascinating Articles From Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3td2IqoLAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandcrime/Twitter: https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetworkFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawandcrimeTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lawandcrimenetworkTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lawandcrimeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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As the Justin Baldoni and Blake lively legal fight continues, a large point of their dispute revolves around whether or not an intimacy coordinator was retained for the production of it ends with us and whether any of the more mature scenes were improvised. It is a very important factor in lively sexual harassment lawsuit and Baldoni's counteraction. And that is why we decided who better to clear some of this up

than an actual intimacy coordinator. We are bringing one on to answer our questions as we try to make sense of this case. Welcome to Sidebar. Presented by Law and Crime, I'm Jesse Weber. So there's obviously a lot to discuss when it comes to the competing lawsuits from Blake lively and Justin Baldoni. Lively filed her civil rights complaint that matured into a federal lawsuit against Baldoni, her former co-star and director of It Ends with Us, his production company, Wayfair, the company's CEO, Jamie Heath, and others claiming that Baldoni sexually harassed her during the production of the movie, created a hostile work environment for her, and then launched a digital and media smear campaign against her after she came forward and

vocalized her complaints against him, thereby damaging her name and her. her reputation. Those are her allegations, but he fired back. He has filed a lawsuit against her and her husband actor Ryan Reynolds and others claiming that they defamed him, tried to extort him, essentially weaponized false allegations against him and used their power and the prestige to bully him into giving lively full control over the film and then boxed him out. He also, by the way, sued the New York Times because they published a bombshell report on Lively's initial complaint the day after she filed it. And he claims that the time, presented a completely one-sided narrative filled with factual inaccuracies out-of-context

messages and communications that they did not do their proper due diligence. And there are competing claims, there are text messages, there are versions of events, and a lot we can talk about. But what we want to focus on right now specifically is the intimacy coordinator aspect of this story. Generally, the dispute here, and we're going to get a little bit more granular as we get into this, but lively claims there wasn't an intimacy coordinator present for certain scenes when there should have been. And Baldoni improvised a lot of these scenes. Baldoni claims an intimacy coordinator was retained, but it was lively who refused to meet with this person and he had to walk lively through his meetings with the coordinator and the coordinator's instructions.

By the way, as we continue our lively Baldoni coverage here, I have to thank our sponsor upside because their support allows us to keep on doing this. Now, let me tell me. you about upside if you don't know what it is. It's great. It is a free app that gets you cash back on daily essentials like gas, groceries, food. I pump my gas. I can use upside. Go out to lunch. Let's say Chipotle, I can use upside. Maybe I get some gum, tic tax at 7-11. I can use upside. Why not get cash back when I do all these things, right? And yes, this is actual real cashback. It's money that appears in your upside app that you transfer right into your bank account. So once you have the free upside app, you claim an offer for whatever you're buying on

upside. You pay as usual using a debit or credit card. You follow the steps on the app. You get paid. It's so simple. So to find out how much you can earn, you click the link in the description to download upside or you scan the QR code on screen and make sure to use our promo code sidebar because you'll get an extra 25 cents back on every gallon on your first tank of gas. As we go through this, I'm not going to do it alone. I am joined by a special guest, somebody that we've wanted to have on for a while now to talk about this since this story broke. We have an actual intimacy coordinator for TV and film. Mia Shactor joins us right now. Mia, thanks so much for coming here on Sidebar.

appreciate it. Yeah. Thanks for having me. What does an intimacy coordinator do? Let's start there. That's a great question. Our job is to navigate and negotiate boundaries and consent with actors as it relates to simulated sex scenes or scenes that involve nudity.

We are there to help liaise between the director, the production, and the actors, and The intention is to kind of be a neutral third party somewhat outside of the hierarchy of directors, actors, and so on, so that actors aren't having these conversations and making decisions on the spot with the director in a situation where they then have to say, I don't want to do what it is that you're asking of me to the director directly.

We also then coordinate across multiple departments. So lots of departments end up being involved these scenes from costumes to hair and makeup to set deck, the production office, the legal team on a show or a movie. And we become the person who ensures that all departments are on the same page about what it is that we're planning on filming. And then once we start filming, we make sure

that we're sticking to what we agreed upon ahead of time, both legally and what's been expressed by each actor that they're comfortable with, that we're adhering to SAG after guidelines on what a close set means. We're communicating with the script supervisor and they're communicating with the post team, the editing team to make sure that everyone is aware of what it is that we have said we're going to do and then we don't go beyond the scope of that. Is an intimacy coordinator required either by SAG rules or other sort of legal requirement?

Yes and no. Certain networks and studios and then certain directors have said we're are always going to be using an intimacy coordinator on any closed set. Now, what you close a set for is not super black and white because you always close a set for any simulated sex or nudity. But sometimes you'll close a set because there's very, you know, delicate, vulnerable, intimate stuff being said or there's something as, you know, kind of lower stakes like kissing. There's also, like, different kinds of touch that, you know, can be kind of nebulous depending on someone's definition of what is intimate, sexual, sensual, erotic, things like

that. So in the, my understanding is that in the latest SAG contracts after the strikes, intimacy coordinators are now required when there is a closed set. There may be some nitty-gritty language to that that I'm not completely. aware of. But that was my understanding, which is why I then have been surprised to hear stories of shows and films that don't have intimacy coordinators present for that kind of thing, or where a director is then asking an actor, do you want an intimacy coordinator? Which I would love to see no longer happen, because we really are not just there for the actors. We're also

there for the crew. You know, we're not just there for one actor. We're there for all actors in that scene. We're not just there for women. We're there for people of any gender. We're there to make sure that all departments are understanding exactly what it is that we're trying to execute. So, yeah, it's been a little bit of a surprise to me to hear that, and it's not just this story, it's several other stories where directors are sort of like asking their actors, do you want one, which you would never do with a stunt. You know, do you want a stunt coordinator for this fist fight or fire explosion or car chase? Like you just say, here's your stunt coordinator. Unless you're Tom Cruise, unless you're Tom Cruise. And then it's known that, you know,

he probably would do it himself. Okay, let me ask you this. Let me ask you this. We're going to get into the details of this story. Generally speaking, and I'll get into different scenarios, generally speaking, big film like this, wide release, based on a movie, based on a book, me, A La Star, would it make sense to you that an intimacy coordinator would not be first retained at the start of this production? Um, no, that does not make sense to me. However, my understanding is that there are two intimacy coordinators credited on this film. And where I think there needs to be some clarity is that at least the scene that was that

Justin's team released footage of them. shooting when they were supposed to be slow dancing. There's nothing in the script that would make any intimacy coordinator think I should be present for this scene and I need to talk to the director about what it is that they want to shoot. That scene said very clearly they slow dance and there was no mention of a kiss or any kind of vaguely sexual touch whatsoever. So when I'm doing my job going through a script saying like I need to talk to the director about what they want to in this scene, this scene, this scene, and this scene, slow dancing does not, you know, make my ears perk up and go, I need to have a conversation about this. And it certainly does

not make me think that we need a closed set or that I need to be present on the day of shooting. Okay, that's very clear. And we're going to talk about that dance montage in a minute. I want to go a little bit through this and then I want your perspective on all of it. So, and again, I'm so happy to have you because we've been wanting to talk to an expert in this field. So Lively's complaint, it says, quote, Wayfarer fail to adhere to Guild rules as well as Ms. Lively's contract and standard industry safety protocols with respect to nudity and intimacy scenes with the Screen Actors Guild and the American Federation of Television Radio Artist Sag Afterra acknowledges place performers in uniquely

vulnerable situations. Such safeguards ignored by Wayfarer include providing performers with appropriate notice of nudity and simulated sex and ensuring that one consent is given free of pressure or coercion to sign nudity riders are in place, spelling out the parameters of nudity or simulated sex scenes, three, safe and secure working conditions that are not detrimental to health, safety, morals, and career, and the use of intimacy coordinators to observe intimacy scenes. It goes on. Without these productions in place, Mr. Baldoni improvised physical intimacy that had not

been rehearsed, choreographed, or discussed with Ms. Lively, with no intimacy coordinator involved. For instance, Mr. Baldoni discreetly bit and sucked on Ms. Lively's lower lip during a scene in which she improvised numerous kisses on each take. Mr. Baldoni insisted on shooting the full scene over and over again well beyond what would have been required on an ordinary set and without advance notice or consent. Mia, let's start there. Those allegations discussing what she claims are blatant violations.

Your thoughts on that? And does this happen often? And just no one speaks up that there are violations and maybe an intimacy coordinator should have been there. And there were rules that were broken with just nobody says anything. Just your opinion on this. I don't believe that that is common. I think it's, you know, something that was more common at another time.

But I think that intimacy coordinators have been around now, you know, going on 10 years in TV. And I don't, I have never seen that in my career. I've been doing this since 2019. I don't think it's common anymore, certainly not in a union. project. I could see something like that happening in something of like an amateur, you know, project or extremely low budget. But we just don't improvise kissing anymore. And that doesn't mean that you can't do it if it's not written in the script. It just means we have to have a conversation about it before it happens. That's it. You know, if it's not written in the script

and a director wants to see that, totally fine. And then we talk about it. If that's not in the script and an actor thinks their character would do that or feels inclined to do that, we can have a conversation about it. And it's completely within the bounds of professionalism and, you know, appropriateness. I think what I'm hearing in these allegations that you're reading is that there was no conversation and it's being improvised without anyone saying ahead of time, you know, is this something that you'd be okay with in this scene if it's comes up organically. Right. And Baldoni has a different take on this. So from his complaint, it reads, lively demanded that an intimacy coordinator be present at all times when lively was

unset. In fact, an intimacy coordinator had already been engaged during the first half of the production. So Wayfair took no issue with this request itself. Despite both lively and her attorney knowingly insinuating, there was not one on or about March 20th, 20th, 23, nearly two months before filming began, Baldoni met with the intimacy coordinator, and in early April of 2023, more than six weeks before production commenced, she was engaged. Lively was aware, as Baldoni had informed her in writing on or about April 6, 2023. Lively's attorney was also aware, as documented in May 8, 2023 emails between her and Wayfarer's attorney, within which Wayfair provides her the intimacy coordinator approved nudity rider, followed by written approval

of said approval. And by the way, there is a parent text, apparent message between Lively's Council to Wayfarer's Council where it says, or appears to say, do you have written approval from the intimacy coordinator for the exhibit that you can share? Baldoni continues, although the presence of an intimacy coordinator is not a sag rule, but rather a recommendation, Baldoni was eager to engage one from the start to ensure talent, himself included, felt safe during intimate scenes. It was also important to him that the intimacy coordinator be a woman to help craft sex scenes that would speak to the mostly female audience. And then he claims this. Later on in the complaint, it reads, contrary to Lively's knowingly false

claims, it was Lively who refused to meet with the intimacy coordinator to plan out their scenes, putting Baldoni in the awkward position of meeting alone with the intimacy coordinator and later relaying sex scene suggestions and plans to lively in the intimacy coordinator's absence. These meetings often took place at Lively's insistence, the couple's home and often while Lively's husband was present. Lively's method of work was unconventional and uncomfortable for Baldoni. To suggest Baldoni was the one who created this scenario is knowingly false. And Baldoni actually incorporates into this complaint a text message exchange.

First, it's a screenshot of a conversation seemingly between him and presumably Blake Lively, where he writes her, just hired intimacy coordinator who I love will set you to meet slash F.T. with her next week for intro, to which Lively appears to respond. I feel good. I can meet her when we start. Thank you, though. And then Baldoni appears to send that exchange with him and Blake Lively to an unidentified female producer and writes, just FYI, and just wanted to tell you about this, seems she doesn't want to meet intimacy coordinator until we start, which may mess up the workflow, but I can still meet with her, of course, to which the female producer writes back. That's fine if she doesn't want to meet her now. You'll just have to walk her through what

you and blank the redacted are thinking. Mia, would this be typical? I've certainly seen it before. It's not my preferred way to work. What I'll say about what you've read is that it is completely standard and expected that a director meets one-on-one with the intimacy coordinator without actors present. That's a really crucial part of our job. And then it's also completely standard and crucial that each actor meet individually without anyone else present with the intimacy coordinator. So those are things that are normal. What's not super common and not ideal from my perspective, from an intimacy coordinator's perspective, is for an actor not to be willing to discuss the scenes with us before the day that we're shooting. That does make our job.

challenging if not impossible. You know, we have prep work that is a huge part of what our job is meant to do. It's how we then are able to coordinate across departments, as I explained earlier. And it's how we also are able to make sure that the actor and what they're comfortable with aligns with the director's vision before we're on set and like about to be rolling and, you know, on that scheduling time crunch. However, I've seen it before and I've worked with it before. and it is not, you know, it doesn't necessarily, it doesn't necessitate like a disaster, per se. I've seen it go perfectly smoothly.

When I hear what you're describing, it makes me think that Lake Lively felt, well, first of all, perhaps had a misunderstanding about the scope of the role of an intimacy coordinator, which many people do. And then also felt at that point comfortable with Justin. And then given everything else that we've heard, so, so, you know, so she wasn't then nervous going into this with him. And then things happened.

Things were improvised outside of what was agreed upon and conveyed to her through these conversations that he says he had with her. Things then, yeah, occurred outside of what was agreed upon and discussed. And that's when she then asked for, what I read was that she asked for an intimacy question. any time she was filming a scene with him, regardless of the content. Right. So that that demand happened after the strike before they resumed production. And his opinion, his, his, his point of view was, I mean, all right, we'll agree to this, but we already had an intimacy coordinator. And I don't know why she's acting like there wasn't one. That's his, that's his allegation. He also says, um, that he has notes from

his meetings with the coordinator. Um, that is that something that would be typical to take notes. Again, the idea here would be that he had these notes relayed them to Blake lively. Does anything stand out to you about that? It makes sense to me that he would have notes from that meeting. I would, I would hope a director would have notes from that meeting. I find it, you know, counterintuitive and counterproductive to the role of an intimacy coordinator that he would then be the one relaying it to Blake. That sort of the point of an inch, one of the main purposes of having an intimacy coordinator is that they're not the director.

And so you're getting really nitty-gritty with like, you know, I understand that you're okay showing this part of your body. But what about from this angle or from this close? Do you only want it from this far? Like those are the kinds of conversations that we're having. Are you okay with being kissed on your mouth, on your neck with tongue, without tongue? Are nibbles okay? Like we're getting very, very, very minute with this in a way that most directors aren't. And, you know, for many good reasons, they're not getting that granular.

it's it's a it's a particular skill set you know by the way whose responsibility is it for the intimacy coordinator to be on that set on a given day is it the director's responsibility um is it the producer's responsibility who whose responsibility is it it's a producer's responsibility and and then we get scheduled by an assistant director got it okay useful information to know so by the way wanted to ask you about this you mentioned kissing before so um there's another question that comes up baldoni asserts at point that lively and her attorneys did not indicate in her nudity rider that she wanted an intimacy coordinator present for scenes involving only kissing. You mentioned it before, but do you kind of do you need an intimacy coordinator for kissing? Is that strange that they're making

that claim? I don't think it's strange, but it's not a given. Intimacy coordinators are somewhat at this point standard and expected with simulated sex or nudity, which is also what we need legal clearance for. We do not need legal clearance for kissing. And so intimacy coordinators are now more and more present for scenes with kissing, but it doesn't fall into the list of kind of like required or recommended content. So now I want to get into what you mentioned before, the dance montage. So let me first give you Blake lively's description, his description, and then we will play some of the video. So it says, this is from Blake lively. On another occasion, Mr. Baldoni and Miss Lively were filming a slow dance scene for a montage in which no sound was recorded.

Mr. Baldoni chose to let the camera roll and have them perform the scene but did not act in character as rile. Instead, he spoke to Miss Lively out of character as himself. At one point, he leaned forward and slowly dragged his lips from her ear and down her neck as he said it smells so good. None of this was remotely in character or based on any dialogue in the script and nothing needed to be said because again, there was no sound. Mr. Baldoni was caressing Ms. Lively with his mouth in a way that had nothing. to do with their roles. When Ms. Lively later objected to this behavior, Mr. Baldoni's response was, I'm not even attracted to you. This was Baldoni's response in his complaint. One of the producers played music to set the mood to the character, excuse me, this is Baldoni's response

in his complaint. Quote, one of the producers played music to set the mood so the characters could slow dance. Lively, consistently unable to take direction, insisted she really liked the idea of the characters constantly talking because as she described, she and her husband like to, quote, keep talking and talking and baldonie, her director and the film's assistant director, disagreed. In an attempt to encourage her to take his direction, Baldoni offered up that he and his wife often just look into each other's eyes silently, to which she responded like sociopaths and laughed. Maldoni laughed and shook it off while lively once again started talking about how she and her husband can't not talk. Baldoni said, I think that's cute and complimented the couple to which

Lively responded, I think it's more than cute. Lively continued arguing and tried to direct him for the scene while they were supposed to be in character filming the scene. At some point, Heath and another producer irritated, called Baldoni aside to express they can't capture the intended shot because Lively wouldn't stop talking. He was instructed to somehow get her to stop. While there was a brief verbal exchange, Baldoni heeding the instruction of their assistant director and producers continued to try to bring them back into character. As they were acting in this montage scene, Lively continued to break character and speak as herself

rather than as Lily, which was extremely confusing for Baldoni, who was trying to balance directing the scene within his artistic vision while also acting in character while filming and trying to get lively to do the same. Lively apologized for the smell of her spray tan and body makeup, Baldoni responded, it smells good, and continued acting,

slow dancing as he believed his character would with his partner, which requires some amount of physical. touching. Lively took them out of character again and joked that Baldoni should undergo a rhinoplasty. Baldoni laughed it off. Lively incorrectly alleges that this scene was filmed without sound. Baldoni was wearing a microphone and the entire exchange was captured on camera. The actual footage belies any suggestion that this scene was filmed unprofessionally. Lively's allegation that sexual harassment took place is unequivocally false. And talking about that footage, Baldoni's attorney, Brian Friedman, released that footage.

a couple of weeks ago. Here's a sample. I felt so nosy. I know. And my nose is so big. Yes. I was hoping that we could address this. It's not too late. Just got to shut down. We've got to call an insurance month and just deal with that. Cut. Just kidding.

No, it's true. That's why we hired Jenny's late, too. Our noses is much. So, Mia, how do you view the interaction in that scene? I laid out both narratives. You've seen it. What are your takeaways from it? Right up front, they show you what it says in the script. It says they're at a bar, they slow dance, completely lost in their own world, I think. And there's no mention of kissing. There's no mention of kissing on the mouth, of kissing on the neck, of anything like that.

So immediately when it starts, you know, then we start seeing the footage, I just go, why is he trying to kiss her? doesn't say that in the script. So that was a surprise and confusing and does to me scream unprofessional. As I said, if he wanted to see that, he could have said that and they could have had a conversation about it in which she may then at that point have said, well, in that case, I think we need to have an intimacy coordinator for this. There wouldn't have been an intimacy coordinator present given the scene description. But if he wanted to add kissing, he can do that, but he has to have a conversation about it and say it before he does it.

I think, you know, I think it's really easy for people who don't work in that in the entertainment industry to forget that actors are co-workers at their job. Like what we are watching in that video is two people at work. And you don't spring a kiss on your coworker. I think that makes a lot of sense in any other industry. You don't just kiss your coworker at your job. If your job requires that you kiss your coworker, which it often does for actors, that's fine, but you have to talk about it. So what I see in that video is like him having a vision and an idea of what he's going to do. And he's going for that vision without communicating it And without adjusting to the verbal and nonverbal information that she's giving him in that moment,

I hear in what you read that she was trying to direct him, but what I see in there is someone trying to get out of something that is uncomfortable for her while being aware that dozens of people are watching and perhaps trying not to embarrass him in front of his own cast and crew. I also heard you say that he says that he was getting notes about not being able to get the shot that they wanted. But it's clear to me that he that has not conveyed what the desired shot is to Blake. Because they're talking about, they're kind of having this like little back and forth on camera that we hear where they're not in agreement about what the shot is that they're trying to. create together. He's trying to get one thing. She's trying to get something else. So clearly

that was not clear. It was not conveyed clearly to her. I mean, what else I see in there is like I don't see, you know, from the perspective of him as a director, he would have had to have that one kind of conversation. This is the vision. This is the shot I'm trying to achieve. From him as an actor, he could have said, you know, I think our characters would kiss here or I think my character would try to kiss you. And then given Blake the opportunity to say, like, well, I don't want to do that in this scene or I think then we need to bring on the intimacy coordinator or I don't think my character would do that here. And then there would have been an agreement reached between them. But yeah, like if I were working on this and watching this happen,

I would say to a producer or to an assistant director, hey, we need to hang on a second and have a conversation about this because he's trying to kiss her and touch her in ways that we did not talk about ahead of time. Yeah, and by the way, her team released a statement after this footage was released, and it was a statement to deadline, and it said, Justin Baldoni and his lawyer may hope that this latest stunt will get ahead of the damaging evidence against him, but the video itself is damning. Every frame of the release footage corroborates to the letter,

what Ms. Lively described. In her complaint, the video shows Mr. Baldoni repeatedly leaning in toward Ms. Lively attempting to kiss her, kissing her forehead, rubbing his face and mouth against her neck, flicking her lip with his thumb, caressing her, telling her how good she smells, and talking with her out of character. Every moment of this was improvised by Mr. Baldoni with no discussion or consent in advance and no intimacy coordinator present. Mr. Baldoni was not only Ms. Lively's co-star, but the director, the head of studio, and Ms. Lively's boss. Any woman who has been inappropriately touched in the workplace will recognize Ms. Lively's discomfort. They will recognize her attempts at

levity to try to deflect the unwanted touching. Now, real quick, before we move on to this, Mia, if he had, presumably, but presumably, let's just say, for argument sake, he had all of these conversations with the intimacy coordinator about what he was going to do in this scene, had it documented in notes, is all of that meaningless unless he properly communicated it to Blake lively? Absolutely. I mean, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, you like if i found out that someone else had talked to someone else about kissing me and so they thought it was okay to kiss me but no one ever talked to me about it i would find that really strange if not outrageous the one thing that i i do want to

address um in the video that i don't see from what she and her team have said is that when i watch that video, I don't see someone creepily saying, you smell so good. I do see her say, you know, express what to me seems like a little bit of concern or insecurity about the smell of her body makeup and spray tan. And then I see him respond with what to me looks like he's just trying to assure her, no, it's no problem. It smells good. That's my interpretation of that moment but I can also say as and you know as her team says like anyone who's experienced sexual harassment in the past is like familiar with if you know yeah like the levity trying to shake it off but also the the way that every little thing when you're at the end of your rope every little

thing starts to feel like another thing on top of an already huge heavy pile um and I can I can see it through that prism for her that that just felt like yet another thing it's really important you make that distinction i think it was also really important you mentioned there could be room for improvisation there could be room for adding additional scenes or adding you know graphic content as long as it's all communicated between the two actors and i think that at the end of the day is probably going to be the most important aspect of this because the fact that they dropped characters, right? They start talking about their personal lives. Is that a factor that's important to you because you're working out these intimacy scenes? Do the actors sometimes, you know,

break character and they try to talk and, you know, about their own personal lives as a way to make it more of a comfortable setting? Talk to me about that aspect because that became a big issue, you know, she broke character. Yeah. He broke character. Right. I mean, that that one is is particularly gray and nebulous for me because I don't think that it's like inherently unequivocally inappropriate um especially between friends which it sounds from this story like at one point there was more of a friendship between them I think it could feel inappropriate with someone that i just you know with two actor between two actors who just met that day let's say you know um but with with two people who have hung out

socially and know each other decently outside of work it doesn't strike me as as inappropriate as clearly inappropriate i i'm sure there's people who would disagree with me um But that's, that's my opinion. No, I understand. I understand. Mia, you've been very generous with your time. I have to ask you about one more thing. The birth scene. This is a big, big factor in this story.

So let me lay it out here. So Lively claims in her complaint, quote, on the day of shooting the scene in which Ms. Lively's character gives birth, Mr. Baldoni and Mr. Heath suddenly pressured Ms. Lively to simulate full nudity despite no mention of nudity for this scene in the script, her contract, or in previous creative discussions. When the birth scene was filmed, the set was chaotic, crowded, and utterly lacking in standard industry protections for filming nude scenes, such as choreographing the scene with an intimacy coordinator, having a signed nudity rider, or simply turning off the monitors so the scene was not broadcast to all crew on set and on the personal phones and iPad.

Mr. Heath and Mr. Baldoni also failed to close the set, allowing non-essential crew to pass through, while Ms. Lively was mostly nude with their legs spread wide in stirrups and only a small piece of. fabric covering her genitalia. Among the non-essential persons present that day was Wayfair co-chairman Mr. Sarowitz, who flew in for one of his few set visits. Ms. Lively was not provided with anything to cover herself with between takes until after she had made multiple requests. Ms. Lively became even more alarmed when Mr. Baldoni introduced his best friend to play the role of the OBGYN when ordinarily a small role of this nature would be filled by a local

actor. Now, that's her claim. Baldoni counters it. First, he says that friend is actually an actor that she's characterizing it wrong. But this is what he says. To begin with, quote, to describe Lively as mostly nude and naked from below the chest down as dishonest. Lively was wearing black briefs and a pregnancy suit that covered her midsection, and her top

was covered by a hospital gown. Her legal complaint deliberately suggests she was wearing a small piece of nude fabric glued around her genitalia by stating this is generally what female actors used to provide some minimal privacy without disturbing the shot. leaving the reader to believe that Lively was only wearing this small fabric. Lively was aware of this birthing scene as she was heavily involved in writing, rather rewriting the script, and gave creative input for this specific scene even against the director's creative vision. Moreover, film footage clearly demonstrates that the set was not chaotic,

as she alleges, and only essential individuals were present for the scenes. So, Mia, what makes sense to you or are there red flags that you see in both of these accounts? Certainly red flags on on both sides. I mean it's hard when like one person is saying this is what I was wearing and someone else is saying no you weren't you were wearing this like we just don't know. I think first I should clarify what that garment is that they're referring to the small piece of fabric. There there are in in this field there we use things called modesty garments that have different there's different kinds of modesty garments they provide a physical barrier between. bodies but they also provide visual coverage. The most minimal one that you can use on genitalia is something called a strapless thong that sticks to the front and back and basically has nothing on the side. So you look nude from the side and you can also typically angle your body in such a way that you can look entirely nude depending on where the camera is. So that's what I have

to imagine that Blake's team is saying that she was wearing, Baldoni's team is saying that she was wearing underwear. Now what can happen is that depending on which shot we're doing in a given moment, they will change bottoms. We need you to look completely nude from this angle, from this shot, so you're going to take off the briefs or your sweatpants or whatever it is that you're wearing on the bottom. So perhaps at one point she was wearing the briefs and then she took them off for a different shot and was no longer wearing them and was only covered by i mean truly it's like an inch long piece of an inch wide piece of fabric it's very revealing and can feel very vulnerable um a closed set is not something that should ever be and and nudity and simulated sex are not things

that should ever happen last minute they're not things that you decide in the moment um we're supposed to have any nudity or simulated sex rider signed 48 hours in advance, which would mean that if she was going to be doing any nudity that wasn't discussed ahead of time, it would have been too late at that point because there would have been no rider and certainly not 48 hours notice. So that's absolutely not a decision that should be made last minute. So if that's, if that is what happened and there was, you know, it was a last minute decision if it was something that didn't have a nudity rider already drafted and signed then it is absolutely outside of what's you know protocols for intimacy coordination and those

scenes on a set what i'll add to that is like regardless of whether she wrote it or rewrote it or not how a director chooses to shoot something greatly impacts the level of of nudity Right. If a scene is written, you know, she's giving birth and she's in a hospital gown and she's naked on the bottom, we could be shooting over her head versus shooting from the doctor's perspective. Those are extremely different in terms of the nudity that you're then agreeing to show. Right. That's a great point. That's a great point. Look, I was really happy to talk to you about this. It definitely cleared up some things to me about the industry and what we should be thinking about as this case progresses. I'm sure whether the intimacy coordinator or coordinators that were part of this production will testify in an upcoming trial, but we might also hear from other ones, industry experts about this. So it's definitely going to be a real important issue as this story progresses. me a shactor thanks so much for taking the time i really appreciate it thank you all right everybody that's all we have for you right now here on sidebar thank you so much for joining us and as always please subscribe on youtube apple podcast spotify wherever you should get your podcasts i'm jesse weber i'll speak to you next time

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