Law&Crime Sidebar - 'It's Complicated': Former Homicide Detective Discusses Idaho Quadruple Murders of College Students

Episode Date: November 23, 2022

"It's complicated," veteran homicide detective Fil Waters said when speculating about the investigation into the brutal murders of four Idaho college students. The Law&Crime Network's Angenette Levy and Waters discuss the complexity of the investigation and what clues may have been found at the crime scene.GUEST:Fil WatersCheck Out Kindred Spirits Investigations! https://kindredspiritsinvestigations.comLAW&CRIME SIDEBAR PRODUCTION:YouTube Management - Bobby SzokePodcasting - Sam GoldbergVideo Editing - Logan HarrisGuest Booking - Alyssa FisherSocial Media Management - Kiera BronsonSUBSCRIBE TO OUR OTHER PODCASTS:Court JunkieObjectionsThey Walk Among AmericaCoptales and CocktailsThe Disturbing TruthSpeaking FreelyLAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandcrime/Twitter: https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetworkFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawandcrimeTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lawandcrimenetworkTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lawandcrimeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wonderly Plus subscribers can binge all episodes of this Law and Crimes series ad-free right now. Join Wonderly Plus in the Wondery app Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Agent Nate Russo returns in Oracle 3, Murder at the Grandview, the latest installment of the gripping Audible Original series. When a reunion at an abandoned island hotel turns deadly, Russo must untangle accident from murder. But beware, something sinister lurks in the grand. views shadows. Joshua Jackson delivers a bone-chilling performance in this supernatural thriller that

will keep you on the edge of your seat. Don't let your fears take hold of you as you dive into this addictive series. Love thrillers with a paranormal twist? The entire Oracle trilogy is available on Audible. Listen now on Audible. A complex murder investigation is underway in Idaho as authorities try to figure out who murdered four college students as they slept in their beds. I'm Ann Jeanette Levy and welcome to Law and Crime Sidebar podcast. We are taking a closer look at that tragic murder investigation that is underway in Idaho. This is where four college students were stabbed in their beds a little bit more than a week ago. Ethan Chapin, Kaylee Goncalvis, Zana Cornodal and Madison Mogan were found stabbed to death just before 11 a.m. on Sunday, November 13th. All four students had been out for the night the night before, but police said that they've been more. working on the timeline and they've been able to determine that all of those students, the four, were home by 1.45 in the morning. So they've really established a timeline here and then that 911 call was placed at 11 a.m. So just about nine hours later. So it's a real mystery. And it's

pretty disturbing what happened to these college students. Ethan Chapin was actually memorialized at a service on Monday evening. So I thought we should take a closer look at the investigation. And joining us to do that is Phil Waters. He is a veteran homicide detective. He worked murders and high-profile murder cases for more than 23 years in Houston with the Houston Police Department. He is also the founder of Kindred Spirits Investigations. Phil, welcome to Sidebar. Thanks for coming on. Thank you, Angela. I appreciate it. Let's talk a little bit about what we know so far. We know that these four college students returned home sometime around 1.45 a.m. on November 13th and 11 a.m. and 9.m. 911 call is placed. Police have said they've ruled out the 911 caller. There were other friends in the

house because the roommates called friends. They thought one of these people was passed out and just wouldn't wake up. And so they said they've ruled out the roommates too who were home when this happened. So what are your thoughts as a veteran homicide detective about what we know about that timeline so far and the fact that they say they've ruled out the roommates and the 911 caller? Well, I can tell you that initially on any investigation, and certainly one of this magnitude, it's very important to eliminate suspects as it is to find the right person. So when you get through that process of elimination, and of course, the people that are closest to the event are going to be the first ones that you're going to look at. And they're going to have to provide some sort of

explanation as to what they heard, what they didn't hear. Where were they in the house when this happened? Now, my understanding is this is a six-bedroom. It's a pretty good size house, and it appears that each one of these students were living in those separate bedrooms. They were all roommates. And so we don't know, at least it hasn't been revealed to us. It has been said that they were presumably asleep when this occurred. We don't know if there were people in each bedroom or if there were two people in one bedroom

and so forth and so on. So we don't know what the numbers were as distributed through. the house itself. The two roommates that survived this thing, it's not a big, I don't think it's, I know some folks have been making a big deal out of the fact they didn't hear anything, but given the type of weapon that was used and the detail that's been released that they were presumably asleep when this occurred doesn't really suggest that they would have heard anything anyway, because that's a very, it's a silent, that's certainly a silent way to kill someone. And if that person, the suspect is on them, it doesn't give them time to cry out. So

the scene itself is going to be kind of complicated in the sense that you've got to, if you can, if you can process that scene and look and see what the movement was of the killer. If you can kind of take a look at who the first victim was, and then where did it go from there? And I would imagine that there are some signs of that. So we're trying to determine not only the timeline of when those kids got home, but the timeline of when the killings started. Now, I've seen in some of the reports that they're speculating that the killings actually started occurring around three o'clock in the morning. Now, I'm not sure how they've been able to determine that. They know that they got home around 1.45. So that hour and 15 minute period there, I'm not sure how they determined what was

happening. So they're going to have to let the scene talk to them and try to let the evidence lead them where they need to be. But right now, they've got a lot of evidence and it's not leading them in a particular direction in terms of a suspect. I like what you said there about letting the scene talk to them because I can't imagine, and I hate to be gruesome, here, but stabbing somebody takes, I mean, a lot of energy. So I would, I would assume that in the act of stabbing somebody, and I don't know the nature or where these wounds were, I just know they were stabbed, that there would be something left behind. And we heard, too, that there were some defensive wounds. That's what the police had said. Some of them had defensive wounds. So is it

possible the killer left something that is going to help identify that person? In most cases, at least my from my own experience, when a suspect at a scene, they do bring something to the scene themselves, right? So there's going to be something that they have left behind. Now, whether that's DNA and so and so on, unless they were prepared to not leave that kind of evidence, but when you've got something that is so personal, like a stabbing, where you've got to have direct contact, and especially when you have defensive wounds, so the normal course of events would be. be it that autopsy, they're going to take fingernail scrapings off of each of these victims in the hopes that we're going to have some sort of identifiable DNA profile underneath those fingernail

scraping. So there's a lot of things, and in my experience as well, when you have an edged weapon that's used, it's usually used in a flurry. And when that person is doing that, they don't really have a concept of where that blade is going. And so there are many times when the suspect will actually cut themselves in the process of the stabbing. And then again, they leave a part of themselves behind, leave some DNA there. So the blood evidence, I'm sure, is huge in this case, as most stabbings are. There's a lot of blood. So it's going to be a determination of looking at spatter or looking at blood drops in specific places and take those samples because you don't know if that's the blood of the victim or if that may be the blood of the suspect. Yeah, and you could have a mixture.

and there. We see that sometimes in a lot of cases that, especially in something so violent like this, there is a mixture of different blood and DNA. Phil, I'm wondering, they brought the FBI into a cyst. Apparently, they have two agents with the behavioral analysis unit who've been brought in, plus other FBI agents. So you've got a lot of people working on this case. So obviously, you look at the scene. I'm assuming you're going to go through their cell phones, the college student cell phones, the victim's phones, go through the phones of anybody who is in the house. I'm thinking to myself, we live in a world where there are cameras everywhere now. So I would assume they've already canvassed that neighborhood and that general area looking for anyone who might have been captured on video around that time, you know,

in that window of whatever it is, 2 a.m. to maybe 8 and 9 in the morning. So this, as most homicides are, but this one in particular, because just the scope of it, are multi-layered, right? So you've got detectives that are tracking down, the cell phone, they're going to get the cell phones, they're going to dump the cell phones, they're going to see what's on there, who did they talk to last, where's the consistent phone calls being made, so forth and so on, pictures, that kind of thing. Do they have anything on there? Videos that were taken earlier in the night, take a look at those things and see what, what people we have around those kids and see if those folks can be identified.

So everybody that can be identified and spoken with, that is going to be something that at least in my department, but we would work, we would work the witness side, we would work the scene side. So we had a pair that one would work one side, one would work the other. So I would assume they have some sort of a similar system where they're delegating parts of the investigation, a variety of detectives that are specifically tracking down those elements of the investigation. So the videos, of course, you know, I would go back to the beginning, if we can capture these kids anywhere on video and see if we have people that are with them consistent with those videos as they move through the evening. And now I have seen that one video there at the food

truck, there was a guy there in a hoodie. I think I read where he's been eliminated. So, but they're, but they're calling through those things. And if they can find any other additional video off of another house across the street, off of a business, I would even be going the, the, the route. that was taken from the bar to the food truck, from the food truck to the house and see if we've got any video. And if we have any vehicles or if we can see who they're with that may not have been revealed. Well, it certainly is a case that is confounding and awful. And it just seems to me that this would not be random, that this person, I would assume,

more than likely knows these people. And to talk about, you know, just the intimate nature of stabbing, I would assume that the killer knows the victims. Would you make that assumption or can we just not, can we not do that yet? Well, I think when I talked before about this, we talked about the randomness or the, or the possibility that they knew these folks. There's no doubt, at least in my mind, what little I know about it and just what I'm reading, that this was a targeted event. And the reason that I would say that is just because of the evidence that I know of and my own observations is you've got two occupants, two residents in that house that were untouched, were not harmed in any way. So these four individuals, for whatever reason, appear to be targeted. Now, does that mean that the person that targeted them was random in the sense that they didn't know them at all?

and they just picked them out as a clear blue sky. You know, they're having too much fun. I'm going to go put my misery on them. Or was it someone that they encountered earlier in the night or in the night and did not know that person prior to that encountering? And something occurred that greatly offended that person. And they decided they were going to seek some sort of retribution about whatever that relationship was or whatever that contact was.

So it could be a random meeting with a person. that becomes known to them only because of that meeting. But then the other side of that is that it may be somebody who knew them and for whatever reason decided to go and kill four people with just reckless abandon. I mean, there doesn't seem to be any hesitation in this. Something triggered the suspect to do what they did. Well, it is certainly awful. And we'll be keeping an eye on it to see where the investigation.

goes next. Phil Waters, a veteran homicide detective and founder of Kindred Spirits Investigations. Thanks so much for joining us to talk about this. You bet, Angela. Have a good day. Have a good Thanksgiving. And that's it for this edition of Law and Crime Sidebar podcast. It is produced by Sam Goldberg and Logan Harris. Bobby Zoki is our YouTube manager. Alyssa Fisher handles our bookings and Kiera Bronson does our social media. You can listen to and download Sidebar on Apple, Spotify, Google, and wherever else you get your podcast. And of course, you can watch it on Law and Crimes YouTube channel. I'm Ann Jeanette Levy, and we will see you next time. You can binge all episodes of this law and crime series. Add free right now on Wondery Plus.

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