Law&Crime Sidebar - Jeffrey Dahmer’s Father Wants to Sue Over Netflix Shows About His Serial Killer Son

Episode Date: October 29, 2022

Jeffrey Dahmer's father Lionel Dahmer reportedly wants to sue over two Netflix shows about his serial killer son. The Law&Crime Network's Jesse Weber breaks it down with entertainment attorney Mitra Ahouraian and filmmaker John Borowski.GUESTS: Mitra Ahouraian: https://twitter.com/MitraEsqJohn Borowski: https://twitter.com/johnborowskiartLAW&CRIME SIDEBAR PRODUCTION:YouTube Management - Bobby SzokePodcasting - Sam GoldbergVideo Editing - Logan HarrisGuest Booking - Alyssa FisherSocial Media Management - Kiera BronsonSUBSCRIBE TO OUR OTHER PODCASTS:Court JunkieObjectionsThey Walk Among AmericaCoptales and CocktailsThe Disturbing TruthSpeaking FreelyLAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandcrime/Twitter: https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetworkFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawandcrimeTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lawandcrimenetworkTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lawandcrimeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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keep you on the edge of your seat. Don't let your fears take hold of you as you dive into this addictive series. Love thrillers with a paranormal twist? The entire Oracle trilogy is available on Audible. Listen now on Audible. Thanks, Grandma. I could just leave the sheets outside in my door. I kind of like to make my own bed. It's being reported that Jeffrey Dahmer's father wants to sue over Netflix's shows about his serial killer's son, but why? And would he have a case? I'll be joined by entertainment attorney Mitra Hurrian and filmmaker and author John Borowski.

Well, the controversy surrounding Jeffrey Dahmer and Netflix isn't ending anytime soon. As we've discussed here on Sidebar, Monster, the Jeffrey Dahmer story, became a wildly popular and watched show on the streaming service. But with that came immense criticism from everything from about how the serial killer was portrayed to victims, family members taking issue with not being consulted about the series. And just to give you a little recap here, Jeffrey Dahmer is the one who murdered 17 people between 1978 and 1991 and he was ultimately killed in prison in 1994. Well, now, Lionel Dahmer, the 86-year-old father of Jeffrey Dahmer, reportedly wants to sue

either the production companies or Netflix for this show, as well as a Dahmer docu series entitled Conversations with a Killer, the Jeffrey Dahmer tapes. And apparently here, Netflix didn't look for permission to use these interview tapes of Jeffrey Dahmer, where he confessed to the killings. And these were actually named by Dahmer's legal team. So I want to bring in two guests to talk about this. I'm joined right now with entertainment attorney Mitra Ahurion and also an expert on all things Jeffrey Dahmer, award winning filmmaker and author John Borowski, who actually wrote the book, Dahmer's Confession, the Milwaukee Cannibal's Arrest Statements. It's great to have you both here. Thanks for having me.

Thank you so much. Amitra, I'll start with you, okay? Because I'm trying to understand what exactly a lawsuit could look like here and what he would sue for because according to reports, Lionel is allegedly upset that he wasn't consulted about the series, that he may be worried about his safety, that he's being targeted, that people are coming onto his property. There's news outlets saying that apparently someone had shown up to his house and threw panties on his driveway. There are other people who are coming there and maybe harassing him. What could you imagine he would sue for? I'm trying to make sense of it. The sentiment is that if you're going to tell my story, I would like to be involved in the

telling of that story. And unfortunately, the law does not support that if something is in the public record. And this is something that has been talked about time and again. There's articles about it. We have footage. This is a story that everyone knows about. And of course, it was highly publicized at the time as well because there's a serial killer, you know, in the midst.

And so this is not something that he would have a claim for for basically a violation of his right of publicity or his right of privacy. You know, the filmmakers have every right to tell the story. It's newsworthy. It's interesting and it's public. So any lawsuit that he would bring on those grounds would not be successful. Now, I will say this caveat, a lot of times filmmakers, although they are not required to, will often seek rights from the family members or from, from the people involved for two reasons. One, just to get their cooperation, sometimes access to stories or materials that they would not otherwise have access to, sort of insider knowledge, and then also to disclaim any lawsuits that might be brought for these types of things. So they did not do that in this case for maybe they decided they didn't need to and it wasn't

necessary. And maybe a lot of times when they don't, it's because they don't think they're going to get that cooperation and judging by the number of people that are involved that were unhappy with both of these stories coming out, both the fictionalized and also the docu-series, that it sounds like it was the right call. They wouldn't have gotten permission. You might very well be right. And one of the things that I'm thinking about is if Lionel Dahmer believes the way he's portrayed in the series is accurate. So, John, you tell me, is the depiction of Lionel Dahmer consistent with what the man Lionel Dahmer really was? and the really he is and the person he was with his son.

I mean, what should we be thinking about when we think about Lionel Dahmer? I think it portrayed him, you know, fairly accurately. You know, he showed how sympathetic he was as a father. You know, I don't know how much, you know, of his direct involvement, you know, with the animals and roadkill was, but he did do some of that with his son because it was true in the show that his son finally, wow, here Jeff's showing an interest in something. So let's work with him on that.

So I could understand that, you know, and he was definitely very distraughtable. about the murders. He did try to help Domer, I believe, as much as he could. I thought he did a little less, and I felt he should have participated more in Domer's life because here's Domer going to college. I mean, high school as an alcoholic, I think he would have been aware of that quite earlier. But in the end, I think they did, they depicted him as well as they could. I think he should have sent his son to A.A. or some other program. But they, they portrayed him as a very sympathetic and caring father, which is what I got from the show, especially when they revealed to him what his son did and the extent of the murders. And he did a great acting job, the actor who

portrayed him as well. Little side note, I think the name is Richard Jenkins. I actually saw him in a Miami donut shop and went up to him and said hi to him and said him a big fan. This is before Dahmer, but I think he was shocked that someone knew who he was. But I remember him from stepbrothers. Anyway, side note. So Mitra, if it's relatively accurate, right? And maybe he doesn't like, people might be coming up to him. Maybe they look at the show and they say, you should have stopped your son earlier. You're the one who got him into looking at these kind of grotesque things. People can come up with all sorts of reasons to harass somebody. One of the things we're taught in law is foreseeability, right? And I'm curious if the more harassment that Lionel Dahmer has or something, God forbid,

should happen to Lionel Dahmer or some, you know, they're coming onto his property. He can't go to the production company or Netflix for any recourse in the sense that you're the one who put out a product. And as a result of that product, you knew I was still alive. You knew something might be able to happen to me. If so it's not a case of like you said, invasion of privacy, not a case of defamation if they're not, I mean, maybe if they're saying something false about him. Is there anything else? Anything else we might be missing here? Well, in California and, you know, a lot of other states, we have this concept of negligent or intentional infliction of emotional distress. We often hear about this sort of coupled with other types of injuries. And in some

places, you have to have a physical injury to be able to even claim that. So that is one possibility. That's something that if they are intent on bringing a lawsuit, certainly the foreseeability factor would come into play. However, this is not something that the documentary or the series is bringing on that person, perhaps exacerbating. But these are facts that happen that are already in the public. And there are people that already feel the way they feel. So even though it may have sort have resurfaced a lot of these people, that doesn't mean that they are the cause. It is the individuals involved that are really the cause of this. Let me ask you this, John, about the tapes, right? I mentioned the tapes as part of these docu-series. What are these tapes about? And again,

my understanding is, is that they were supplied or they were in the possession of Dahmer's legal team? It's like my book, you know, you could read Dommer's confession and read all about these 17 murders. But I think the public is always fascinated to hear either their voice or somebody reading their confessions as reenactments. It's always been that way. If you go in history further back H.H. Holmes in the 1890s, someone had read his confession onto a wax cylinder. So you see the popularity of people being interested and fascinated by serial killers. And hearing the voices and hearing these tapes is just another facet to that truth, that reality that we know about these serial killers rather than just reading the words in a book. What are these tapes, though? Is Lionel Dahmer on the

at all? I'm not sure of that. You know, I haven't completely finished the series. So I'm not sure where they take place. A lot of times these are tapes from the attorney's files and they release them later. Again, that happened with John Wayne Gacy with a recent show where they had, you know, his actual audio tapes that his attorneys had recorded. So Mitra, I'll ask you this finally about the tapes, right? Did Lionel Dahmer as the father of Jeffrey Dahmer, does Netflix have any legal obligation to come to him before using these tapes? Do they have to ask his permission? Or is that, again, something he might be angry about it, but he really doesn't have grounds for a legal case? Again, I mean, these are things that were likely made public during the trial.

You know, if the attorney had them, what I heard of some of them are his interviews with investigators. So these things, if they were released during trial as evidence, would be in the public record. There's the other issue of copyright. So if, you know, he happened. and to own some of those tapes that sort of ended up, you know, in the hands of the producers, maybe. But there is a newsworthy exception in this concept of fair use, which of course is a much more complex analysis than we can get into here. But there is the kind of, you know, the idea that this is something that is of interest to the population. And perhaps there would be the ability to use at least a portion of those tapes legally, even if they are not the copyright holders.

It's amazing. I'll tell you one thing. It's just. just getting more and more people to watch the shows, if anything. I think more people are learning about Jeffrey Dahmer now than they ever did. There's one thing you just have a popular show because of the content, but all of the controversy surrounding it, I think is just leading more and more people to say, why is that the case? What's going on? John Barowski. Number one show. Number one show. Jesse. Yeah, I know. It overtook a cobra Kai, which I love, you know. I focus so much on all this, you know, the murders and the serial killers here on law and crime. When I go back, watch Netflix, Cobra Kai.

All right, guys, Mitra Hurrian, John Borowski. I appreciate you both taking the time. Thank you so much. And thanks, everybody, for joining us here on Sidebar. Please subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jesse Weber. Speak to you next time. You can binge all episodes of this Law and Crime series,

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