Law&Crime Sidebar - Jeffrey Epstein's Brother Tells All: ‘Professional Hit’

Episode Date: January 11, 2024

When convicted sex offender and suspected sex trafficker Jeffrey Epstein was found dead in his jail cell in 2019, his death was eventually ruled a suicide. Now, as a judge unseals thousands of pages of documentation related to Epstein and his coconspirator Ghislaine Maxwell, the spotlight is back on Epstein’s controversial death. Law&Crime’s Jesse Weber speaks with Mark Epstein, the billionaire’s brother, about his own investigation into what happened.HOST:Jesse Weber: https://twitter.com/jessecordweberLAW&CRIME SIDEBAR PRODUCTION:YouTube Management - Bobby SzokePodcasting - Sam GoldbergVideo Editing - Michael DeiningerScript Writing & Producing - Savannah WilliamsonGuest Booking - Alyssa Fisher & Diane KayeSocial Media Management - Vanessa BeinSTAY UP-TO-DATE WITH THE LAW&CRIME NETWORK:Watch Law&Crime Network on YouTubeTV: https://bit.ly/3td2e3yWhere To Watch Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3akxLK5Sign Up For Law&Crime's Daily Newsletter: https://bit.ly/LawandCrimeNewsletterRead Fascinating Articles From Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3td2IqoLAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandcrime/Twitter: https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetworkFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawandcrimeTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lawandcrimenetworkTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lawandcrimeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can binge all episodes of this Law and Crimes series ad-free right now. Join Wondry Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. I think once he was arrested, then the opportunity came up to sort of get rid of him. He is one of the most infamous last names in recent history, Epstein. As more documents related to Jeffrey Epstein's alleged sex trafficking operation are unveiled, we sit down with his brother, Mark Epstein, to discuss, what led to Jeffrey's death in 2019 and all the controversy surrounding it. Welcome to Sidebar, presented by Law and Crime. I'm Jesse Weber. So as you know, if you've been following us here on

Sidebar, we have been closely following all of the latest document dumps in connection to the case of deceased financier and sex offender Jeffrey Epstein. Now, to be clear, this wasn't in regards to the criminal or civil case against Epstein per se, rather all of these documents being on unsealed and released are in regards to a defamation lawsuit that was filed by Epstein accuser Virginia Joufrey against Epstein's madam accomplice Galane Maxwell. Now, the court records are being unsealed on a rolling basis released with John and Jane Doe is identified by their real names. This civil suit, which was settled out of court, happened a few years before Epstein's

death in a New York jail cell, and that is what we want to talk about right now is death. So, Epstein was at the Metropolitan Correctional Center. New York when he was found dead in his jail cell on August 10th, 2019. He was awaiting trial on federal charges that he sex traffic underage girls. Epstein allegedly used part of a bed sheet tied to the bunk bed to hang himself. It's been called, quote, a perfect storm of screw-ups. During the night before Epstein's body was discovered, security cameras weren't recording. Epstein had been left alone without a cellmate despite orders from prison psychologists,

and the two guards who were supposed to be checking in on him, they were apparently asleep. Guards Tova Noel and Michael Thomas. They were stationed about 15 feet from Epstein's cell. They both admitted to falling asleep. They later falsified records that they had completed required checks during the night. Both of them were federally indicted, but they struck deals that allowed them to admit guilt, and the charges would be dropped if they cooperated with the federal probe into Epstein's death. Now, the results of that probe were released in a 120-page report from the Department of Justice,

which blamed, quote, long-standing operational. challenges and also cited, quote, numerous and serious failures. Since then, rumors have swirled and conspiracy theories have persisted with many people believing that Epstein, in fact, did not commit suicide and was instead killed because of the information that he might divulge about high-profile people. Now, in fact, Jeffrey Epstein's brother, Mark Epstein, he's been on a mission to find out the truth about what happened inside of that jail cell, and Mark actually joined. us right now to talk about more of this. Mark, thanks so much for coming on. And just to let all of

our viewers and listeners know, you have opted to not be on camera. We're going to respect that decision, but we hear you nonetheless. Thank you so much for coming here on Sidebar. Good morning. Thank you. Now, for anybody who's not familiar with you or what you're trying to do, can you explain what your position is regarding the death of your brother Jeffrey Epstein? Well, when I first heard that my brother was dead, I actually heard it on CNN. the government did not notify me, as they've claimed. I thought, okay, he killed himself. At the time, I had no reason to doubt it,

and I just figured that was his decision, and I respected it. I grieved the loss of a brother, but it was his decision. But then after the autopsy was done, and all the other information started coming out, it became apparent that it was not a suicide. When you looked at the autopsy results, the photographs we have of the body, the details of the mark on his neck,

compared to the way they said he was hanging, nothing matches up. If you looked at all of these facts and evidence, you would not come up with the conclusion that it was a suicide, other than the fact that Bill Barr made that ridiculous statement about it being a suicide, and the chief medical examiner, Barbara Samson, overrode the actual pathology of autopsy and declared it a suicide. Let's just talk about that for a second.

So I want to understand the timeline of this, and correct me if I'm wrong, did you retain Dr. Michael Bodden to conduct the autopsy here? I, Dr. Michael Bodden, to witness the autopsy. The autopsy was performed by the city pathologist. I, as a family, have the right to have my own pathologist be there and to condemn autopsy once the body is claimed if we deemed it was necessary. And the reason I ask you that is because you just said a second ago, you thought that, you know, your brother's death was a suicide, you were mourning is lost, but there seemed to be something to indicate to you. I want a second opinion to someone to observe the autopsy, right? What was the reason you thought that?

Well, because in speaking with his attorneys, they had a suicide and they were sort of surprised that he did it. So we figured let's cover the bases and, you know, make sure we have somebody there as well. Because one of the things that's not been out there much is that a few days after death, there was a hearing schedule to appeal the decision for bail. You know, the first time when it was first arrested, his attorneys asked me if I was. participate in his bail. And I said, yes. I said, put up my house in Florida. I knew my brother wasn't a flight risk, and he's my brother. I didn't care. And then bail was denied, which is why he was in jail. And then they were going to appeal the decision for bail. And Jeffrey was putting up a

pretty big bail. And they asked me for the appeal if I would guarantee his bail. And I agreed, in essence doubling it. So there was a chance he might have gotten bail. And that hearing was scheduled in, I think, for the 12th, you know, in a couple of days. So then I'm thinking, if he was going to kill himself, wouldn't he wait after the bail hearing? Yeah, because if he got bail, he'd be living in his house with an ankle monitor and armed guards and cameras so he wouldn't disappear anywhere. Not that I thought he would try. And then if bail was denied again, then it would be a more compelling argument for him to kill himself if he wanted to. A few days before the bail hearing, makes no sense at all. So, so do you have a thing?

theory as to what happened here? Because, you know, there's a lot of speculation. There's a lot of conspiracy theories. There's a lot of innuendia. Do you have a theory as to what happened here? Yes. My theory is that this was a targeted, like, assassination. I believe somebody was planted on that tier as an inmate because the Justice Department regularly plants people in prisons either for, you know, to put snitchers in, to get information from prisoners, or to put undercover agents in to build a backstory. So the Justice Department can't plant people in the prison. So I believe, And I had been told early in the game that cell doors were left unlocked that night on the tier. I don't know how many or who's.

But I've been trying to find out what other prisoners were on the tier that night. There was only 11 or 12 prisoners on that tier. So it's not like we're looking through thousands of people. And I would like to know who they were. When did they get there? Because if somebody was on the tier for six months already, he obviously was not a plant. And then after the death, a lot of prisoners were transferred off of that war. So I'd like to find out who was on.

to you. They got there. And where are they now? Do they actually exist? So I guess the counter argument to that would be is if someone really wanted to kill Jeffrey Epstein, right? They had to assume he was about to talk and give information about some, you know, high profile people. Otherwise, you know, what would be the incentive to kill him? Did you ever get an understanding from your brother that he was going to talk about anything, that he was going to be, you know, be a government witness? I mean, because I'm trying to understand what the motivation would be for him to be murdered in prison. I believe you, right?

Again, that's which I tend not to do. Yes, Jeffrey did have, I didn't speak to Jeffrey while he was in prison. Okay. The last time I spoke to Jeffrey was the night before he flew home when he got arrested. He called me from France, and we just had a normal conversation. And the next day he came home and he was arrested. And that's the last time I spoke to him. I did not see him in prison.

And he gave you no indication he was about to be arrested or anything like that. No, he didn't know. Nobody knew who was going to be arrested because back in the, you know, the early decade prior, roughly, when he got in trouble in Florida, when he made his deal, whatever the deal was, he had a non-prosecution agreement with the government. He was all behind him. All of these charges, the current charges, came from back then.

There was no new current charges. So he thought he was free of that because of the non-prosecution agreement. And I believe that was going to be his main defense. But Mark, my question to you is you were going to be putting up the bail for him, but you said you didn't speak to him in prison, in jail. How come? Well, it's a limited amount of people who can get to him in prison to talk to him, you know, and the cause he was able to make of him to talk to his attorneys. The limited phone calls and limited contact, so let him use it for what he needed.

Yeah. But his attorney is the one who asked me about the bail. It wasn't right. I see. I see. Okay. Now, again, no indication from your relationship with your brother that he would have ever killed himself. And because Ephraimstone Reyes, he became Epstein, your brother's new assigned roommate.

He was transferred, my understanding, less than 24 hours prior to your brother's death. He was transferred to a different facility. He actually died in 2020, but he made the statement once that your brother didn't want to live anymore. So, you know, I completely understand what you're saying, where if your brother was going to kill himself, why not wait until after the bail hearing, but also somebody who's in that position locked away, it's hard to predict what they might be thinking or what they might be going through. I'm curious what your reaction was to that statement. Well, it's curious that he was transferred out a day before the death. That's one, you know, why was he transferred away? The prison psychologist that were talking to Jeff had no indication that he was going to kill himself.

He was actually on a suicide watch after what they thought was an earlier suicide attempt, which was not a suicide attempt. And he was taken off of the suicide watch. So nobody else seemed to think he was going to do harm to himself. And everybody, his attorneys, people he was friendly with that were in contact with him. But he thought that this was going to happen. This was a surprise. Like I said, I don't know what motivated the guy to say that. I would imagine that every prisoner in there at some point or another contemplate suicide.

I would imagine the normal thought amongst prisoners. Now, to be clear, Dr. Bodden, who we mentioned, he didn't believe that the injuries were consistent with a suicide. He said there were these two breaks on each side of the thyroid cartilage. One on the left side, he says it occurs much more commonly in homicidal strangulation. And he said, I've not seen in 50 years where that occurred in a suicidal hanging case. but you mentioned the New York chief medical examiner, Dr. Barbara Sampson. She listed the cause of death as suicide. She said, though, she's been able to review additional evidence.

We don't know what that evidence is. Do you think she's not telling the truth, or do you think she viewed something that you just haven't seen yet? Well, she's never said what that supposed evidence is. Now, understand something, too. When the autopsy was done, both the city pathologists who did the autopsy with Dr. Barden concurring, said it looks more like a homicide. in the suicide. So on the initial death certificate, it said pending, meaning pending further investigation under the cause of death section. Normally, Dr. Biden said it takes weeks to

change a pending determination to an actual cause. We've been trying to find out for, you know, over four years, what position, or close to four years, what position his body was in when it was found. Because the autopsy showed he was dead for at least two hours when they found So he wasn't coming back, and they're not supposed to move a dead body until the medical examiner gets there, because there's a lot of evidence just on the dead body itself. But he was taken out and brought to the infirmary. When the EMTs came after the 911 call, Jeff was already in the infirmary. They didn't go to the cell.

I only found this out. It's just the latter part of last year. And then when the Justice Department report came out and described the way he was found, it doesn't match the actual body results. The mark on his neck, the ligature mark from whatever it was used to strangle him, I'm going to use that word, is in the middle of his neck, and it sort of goes straight back, as if you put a rope around somebody's neck and pulled it. Like I say, like in Carlo and the Godfather, when they got him in the car. But if you're hanging, and supposedly he was hanging for over two hours, from the top bunk, they said, in the seated position with his legs out in front of him, and his buttocks was off the ground, which means most of his body weight was hanging. the ligature well that ligature should have ridden up high underneath his his chin and back up

like behind his ears to the knot to tie where it was tied to the top bunk but the mark on his neck is not consistent with that description of how he was found also if he was hanging that way for two hours or more it could have been six hours but we know it was at least two uh then the back of his legs and his buttocks should have had blood pooling in him because when you die and your blood is not circulating anymore it sinks in your body points so if you die laying on your back your back becomes blotchy from the blood pooling under the skin it's called lividity so the back of jeffrey's legs should be have lividity should have blotchyness on the back he does not his legs are clear and and you know to add to that they they found these two nooses in the cell there was a noose

that was submitted this kind of piece of cloth um it was not ripped it wasn't cut it didn't have stains or fluids on it. So assuming for a moment that he was killed in his jail cell, how do you think he was killed? What instrument was used? Well, because of the brakes in his neck, okay, which again is inconsistent with the hanging, as Dr. Bonn said, it's more consistent with either strangulation or a karate chop to the neck. And speaking to military people, I have some government connections. The way they kill people is you give somebody a quick karate chop to the front of the neck, it collapses their windpipe, it disorients him, sort of incapacitates him. Then they usually, you know, twist the head quickly and break the neck, as we see in the

movies all the time. But in this case, it looks like he might have gotten a karate chop to the neck to disorient him and disable him. And then something was put around his neck, not a bed sheet, because the mark in his neck does not look like a bed sheet. It looks more like a court of some kind. That's a very sophisticated way to kill him. And if you're, you're, when you really, when we spoke before, you said that you wanted

to know who else was on the cell block, you think a random. inmate would have had the ability to do that, or do you think it's somebody else who had some sort of training? Well, it seems like somebody had some training. Yeah, it doesn't, it seems like a professional hit. I guess the question is, you know, if, you mentioned the Department of Justice. They released this 128 page report talking about these kind of failures, these problems, but they don't support the idea that Jeffrey Epstein was murdered. They still say it was a suicide, but they should have been able to prevent this from happening. If this really was a murder, is it people not looking at the right information or there's a cover up because it seems

someone would look at this and say the Department of Justice Bill Barr is going to cover this up the risk of doing that is greater than what allowing Epstein to live and that's why I think people look at this as a conspiracy theory so what would be your response to that that this whole report is a lie well let me ask you a question who killed Kennedy well I mean if you want to go through that we can definitely have that conversation about, you know, about who killed John F. Kennedy and what happened on 9-11. I mean, there's always going to be theories and conspiracy theories. But if we're talking about Jeffrey Epstein in 2019 after his arrest, because, you know,

you can make the argument, you can make the argument that if there really was an aim to make sure he didn't talk, why even arrest him in the first place? Well, I think those two things might have been separate. I think he was arrested because there was a lot of heat building up on the old case. And there was a reporter in Florida who got on this case and started looking into this. And then the quote, the victims were starting complaining that they didn't have their say in his sentencing deal. So the whole issue, the deal he got back in 2006 or seven, was coming up again. And that's why he was arrested.

Okay. So again, taking that as a way, if there was an effort to make sure Jeffrey Epstein didn't talk and we're going to kill him, you couldn't someone have said to him, hey, listen, Jeffrey, why don't you go to another country where there's no. extradition and then we'll start an investigation say oh we can't get him he fled to another country i guess it has to be so coordinated so systematic that he was killed in his gel cell that and there's a risk associated with that that it you know it seems to me that arresting him in the first place why would you have done it well again i i think those are two separate things i think once he was arrested then the opportunity came up to sort of get rid of him so i think i think it's two

separate issues i don't think he was arrested with the intention of killing him at that point in time I think he was arrested with the idea of prosecuting him further for the charges he sort of got off on. And then the opportunity came up. Look, trust me, one thing, it would be a lot easier for me if he committed suicide. Yeah. I couldn't, you know, taking care of his death and moved on with my life. But since it is, if anybody who has looked at this, who has any kind of experience with investigations, says it wasn't a suicide.

There's a series. There's a podcast series called Crime Wings out of the University of New Haven, where they go into this a lot. And I don't see how you can listen to the facts that it presented and walk away thinking, oh, it was a suicide. So, Mark, you've been very vocal about this and you've been going on different media outlets to talk about it. What has been the response you've received for more information? I mean, the tapes, the videotapes from that jail have not been released. We know the cameras were shut off when your brother died, but there was no tapes of him actually being removed from his jail cell. You want more information.

You want more documentation. what is the response you received? Well, from the government, I've gotten nothing. You know, the 911 call, I've been trying to get that. They're telling me it doesn't exist anymore. Medical records I haven't been able to get. I mean, why? If this was a clear suicide, why are all these records being hidden?

Where's, like you said, where's the tape? Now, we know the tape from the camera outside of the tier was working. That's the tape that Bill Barr said he personally saw, and he saw nobody went in or out of the tear, and that convinced him it was suicide. When he said that, I said to myself, that makes no sense. Because if he was killed, he was killed by somebody already on the tier. So, yeah, Bill Barr, the chief, you know, Justice Department person in the United States,

making an error that any third-rate investigator would not make. Do you think Bill Barr wasn't telling the truth? Absolutely. And who is he protecting, you think? Well, that's the question. Who does Bill Barr work for? Who was he there to protect? Well, that's, I'm asking you the question. I mean, that's the part. Like, again, if this is a systematic conspiracy, you know, who's leading it? Well, who does Bill Barr work for? See, I'm not going to speculate with names, but it just, I didn't want to pick a name and then try to find evidence to support that. I've been following evidence and where the evidence points. That's how, that's how you do an investigation. I don't say that you killed them, and then I try to find

ways to prove that you killed them. Right. That's not what you do. I find the invest, if I, if it came out and pointed to you, I would say you did, but it doesn't. Let's be very clear. There are a lot of question marks regarding your brother's death. There's a reason. There's a lot of these theories about what happened. I mean, there's a problem. There was problems that happened in terms of video cameras and the security guards. I mean, we could talk about it. I am curious, though, because you're making this very vocal right now. You know, this past week, your brother has been in the news a lot.

Do you think that these new developments, the release of all these documents, is going to add attention to your case and help your case to try to get more information? I hope it does. Now, I've been quiet about this for some odd years. But then when the Justice Department report came out with the inconsistencies, One, you know, they said they notified me. The government didn't notify me. I heard about Jeff's death on CNN. They said this medical examiner called it a suicide.

Oh, no, the medical examiners that did the autopsy couldn't call it a suicide because it looked more like a homicide. But then it was overridden by Barbara Samson, the chief medical examiner, who, from what I understand, she did not see the body. And she did claiming there some other evidence that convinced her it was a suicide. And I'm questioning, why can't we find out what that evidence is other than Bill Barr's statement? And other than she thought that Jeffrey might have killed himself before, but it's been shown that you can watch the podcast. Jeffrey was not committed suicide before. He was roughed up by his roommate. Are you taking any kind of legal action against the government to get more information? No, I can't because the only thing that you could possibly do, which I don't have standing to do, is to sue for wrongful death.

First of all, there's a two-year window in which to sue for wrongful death, which is passed. And I don't have standing to sue for that, even though I'm his only heir, because I was not dependent. on Jeffrey. So I suffered a monetary loss, so I don't have what's called standing to sue for them. So I can't do that. I would have, I had attorneys lined up and looking into it, but it turns out I don't have standing to make that case. I mentioned this past week, I mean, here on Longcrime, we've been covering all of the documents that have been released to try to make sense of it. When we see the documents that have been released, is there anything that from there that supports your, you know, supports you, understanding some of these players, understanding

some of these people that kind of gave you new information about your brother and who, again, if you assume he was killed by someone, did anything from these documents give you any kind of insight? No, I wasn't aware of what was going on with a lot of his life, but trust me, I've been called many, many times by media people, ask me about my thoughts about the upcoming document dump, you know, like last week. And I told them, I have no idea what's on those lists. You know, I wasn't expecting anything earth-shattering to be on those lists. I didn't see any big. new surprising names, you know, like I said, I haven't been keeping abreast of that. I'm not concerned about Jeff's case in a sense. I'm not looking to defend him for the charges. That's that I'm

here for. I'm only looking to see about my brother's death. It would have been easier for me if it was a suicide, but it doesn't appear that way. What was your relationship like with him? Well, we were close. We were always in communication. It's known. I hadn't seen him for seven years prior to his dying. We both have different cities, so we're not in the same place often. And, but we were always communicating. And, you know, time flies by, years go by. But like I said, he called me the night before. He was arrested, just a normal, you know, how you're doing, what's new.

He would tell me funny stories of things that's going on. I would keep him abreast of what's happening with the rest of the family, you know, our cousins and such, you know, and just normal kind of normal relationship. It was funny. We used to have a lot of funny funcals. He was a funny guy. But like, when he's arrested, this is like a shock to you. You're like, what happened here?

Like, this is not the brother that I knew. But I knew he was in trouble back. in, you know, in 2006, he actually spoke to me. He told me that he was getting into trouble. You know, he asked, he wanted to talk to me. We met and he told me that he was getting into trouble, you know, for being with these girls. And I said, well, you know, this is what he did, you know, and so he had to bear the Brunther's actions. But we stayed in touch, you know, he did, he got, he made a deal in Florida, spent some time in jail. And then we've been in touch throughout, yeah. Well, I'm sorry, Mark, you said that, um, this is what he did. Well,

he was trying, he did, but I said this is what he did. He was in Florida. He got in trouble for what he did he spent some time in jail you know and he got out and he was living his life and like I said the more recent charges stem back from that period of time I don't believe I just I wanted to give you the opportunity because it sounded like you're just like this is what Jeffrey did he was around these kind of young women you know well well in a sense that that is what he did I mean he like women he like with young women I wasn't around I didn't see him you know after 2004 to the last time I saw him was probably 2012 between 2004 and 2012 maybe I saw him once a year. So we didn't get together a lot. In 2004, my mother passed away. So that's why we

used to all get together. And after she passed, Jeff and I didn't meet, you know, at my mother's house of Florida. So, yeah, so we didn't see each other. So again, going back to this idea that you mentioned, like, you know, who might have been, you know, being protected here, who was worried about what your brother might say, was there incentive to kill him? You know, in these documents, I'll let you know, like, there's just a lot of big names and people that, you know, common theme is that your brother, we talked about, like, celebrities that he knew or contacts that he had.

Did he ever talk to you about, like, hey, I know Donald Trump. Hey, I know Kevin Spacey. Hey, I know Leonardo Capri. Like, did he ever talk about these celebrities and, like, these stories with them or anything like that? No, he would tell me things like,

like I knew when he flew Clinton to Africa, which is what first put him on the map. You know, he told me he went to Africa. He took Spacey, Chris Tucker. Yeah, he would tell me, mention people's names that he was with, but he wouldn't tell me much about them themselves. But, you know, he told me he was with

so and so like he used to hold like scientific conferences on his island so he used to have big scientists mathematicians there so he told me like Stephen hawkins was there he told me that he had outfitted a submarine for Stephen hawkins so Stephen hawkins can go down underwater you know so I was saying it came up recently so so is now Stephen hawkins going to get smeared you know all these other scientists are they going to get smeared because they were there for a scientific conference you know it's like everybody's trying to tarnish everybody that never spoke to my brother you know it's not fair to them because Jeffrey had a whole other life that was separate from his issues with the women right and when the but the but the but the when the bail came up like

you said his attorneys contacted you you know you didn't take the position like wow look what he's accused of i don't want to have anything to do with him you were you were open to hearing his defense and he and helping him in a way because he's your brother sure of course yes and right and what about just real quick what about galane maxwell like did you did he talk about her like did you know about her her she got convicted like you and i haven't spoken about i'm just curious like what did you think about her well i i knew glen back in the 90s when they first met we We spent a lot of time together, all of us back in those days. Well, I knew she was with Jeff for a long time, and I didn't really think much about the case.

You know, she was charged. I saw the headlines like everybody else. And I thought, well, now she has to deal with her charges. I wasn't involved with that. And, you know, she's not my sister. So I wasn't like looking to, you know, go to the extra yard, so to speak. But it was like, I say, you can ask, go stop a stranger on the street and ask him what he thinks. And it's the same response you're going to get from me, more or less.

And I respect that, like, you know, I guess the one question I have, and I'll end it here, obviously there's a, you want more information about what happened to your brother. And I, and that's fair. You know, you want full transparency. But as these, all this information comes out, are you not interested in learning more about your brother, what he was emailing, who he was talking to, what his life was like? Because, you know, he's no longer here to talk about and try to find information. You're not interested in seeing more about the communications he had or the life that he lived? No, I know enough about that to satisfy me. I don't need. to see any more like dirt on him or anybody else. I'm not interested in that. I'm interested in who potentially killed my brother. Mark Epstein, thank you so much for taking the time, sir. Appreciate it, and we will continue to follow what happens in this investigation. Yeah, I hope they investigate the death as opposed to just the charges.

That's the purpose of this. Thank you. You're welcome. Thanks so much, Mark. Appreciate it. All right, everybody, that is all we have for you right now here on Sidebar. We're going to continue to follow the Epstein case for you. Thank you so much for joining us.

Please subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jesse Weber. Speak to you next time.