Law&Crime Sidebar - Kodak Black Accuses Cop of Grabbing His 'D*ck,' Smollet Body Language, Deshaun Watson Suing the NFL?

Episode Date: July 20, 2022

Rapper Kodak Black is accusing the officer who arrested him of touching his privates! Attorney Matthew Mangino comes on to discuss how this could affect the case. Plus, is Cleveland Browns Quarterback Deshaun Watson about to sue the NFL? Profootballtalk.com founder Mike Florio explains what this could mean for Watson’s time on the field. And, body language expert Dr. Lillian Glass breaks down a Jussie Smollett interview to see if he was really lying.GUESTS:Matthew Mangino, AttorneyDr. Lillan Glass, Body Language ExpertMike Florio, Profootballtalk.com founder, author, and former lawyer. LAW&CRIME SIDEBAR PRODUCTION:YouTube Management - Bobby SzokePodcasting - Sam GoldbergVideo Editing - Michael DeiningerGuest Booking - Alyssa FisherSocial Media Management - Kiera BronsonSUBSCRIBE TO OUR OTHER PODCASTS:Court JunkieObjectionsThey Walk Among AmericaCoptales and CocktailsSpeaking FreelyLAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandcrime/Twitter: https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetworkFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawandcrimeTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lawandcrimenetworkTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lawandcrimeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Rapper Kodak Black back in the news as he's now accusing the officer who arrested him of touching his privates. Attorney Matthew Mangino comes on to discuss how this could affect the case. Plus, is Cleveland Brown's quarterback Deshawn Watson about to sue the NFL? Pro football talks, Mike Floreo explains what this can mean for Watson's time on the field. And a body language expert breaks down a Jesse Smollett interview to see if he was really lying. So rapper Kodak Black finds himself in a new legal situation. He was arrested out in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, after police found 30 oxycodone.

own pills and $75,000 cash on him. And he was charged with possession of a controlled substance and drug trafficking after patrol highway officers pulled his car over that had dark tinted windows. Now, he was released on $75,000 bond. And his attorney is claiming that the pills were prescription pills and that he didn't do anything illegal. That Kodak Black has been fighting pain since that he was shot in February out in L.A. on Super Bowl weekend. So they believe that he has a good defense now the rapper himself is speaking out or maybe tweeting out because in a since deleted tweet after his arrest codec black wrote hey i'm officer pinky insert word for male genitalia here let's just say d so hey i'm officer pinky d the one on the news for arresting the rapper kid with the big d and a lot

of cash yeah my daughter talks about it so much i had to pull him over so i can feel it myself no lie bro felt like he had a shotgun in his front pocket. And Kodak Black defended himself in another tweet saying people don't even care to know what's going on. Well, I want to know what's going on and to help me talk about what's going on. I'm joined right now by attorney and former DA Matthew Mangino. Matthew, it's good to see you. And I want to let all of our listeners and viewers know that there's a little bit of a delay here about two seconds or so, but it won't change the fact that we're going to have a great talk about Kodak Black. Hey, Matthew. Hey, Jesse. Thanks for having me. So let's start with the from Kodak Black, where he's basically insulting the officer, telling him that he's, you know,

touching his private areas. Could this expose, maybe that's not the best word, but could this expose Kodak Black to some legal jeopardy? Could this hurt him in any way? Well, it's certainly not going to endear him with the arresting officer and probably not the prosecutor's office. You know, to try to get a laugh out of this arrest on social media. It probably isn't going to sit well with the people who have collected the evidence and are ultimately going to prosecute this case. He says, though, that he's got, I mean, before before we even get to the prescription pills, is there any way, I mean, could the officer fire back, I don't know, like a defamation claim and saying, how dare you say that about me? I was doing my job.

Well, that's an interesting question. You know, it certainly would appear to be satire in in which he is kind of playing the role of the police officer. He's in the police officer's head saying what he might. You know, defamation, we know a lot about it because we went through a long public trial about it. It is still very difficult to prove. You have to prove damage to your reputation and those sort of things. I think that that would be a long shot.

And they say the Johnny Depp Amber Herd trial didn't teach us anything. I thought it was a good legal lesson. But let's talk about his defense here. So his attorney is coming forward and saying these were prescription pills. His client has been in pain since he got shot. Is that a defense? Well, if he has a prescription for the pills, it may be a defense to, you know, the possession with the intent, the deliverer or something like that.

But it still may be a violation of the law. I know it is in Pennsylvania to carry prescription medication, which is not labeled in a prescription bottle. So that might still open up a charge there. The other thing is he has $75,000 in cash. I know he's an entertainer, but most people, even entertainers, don't drive around with $75,000 in cash on them. How serious is this for him? I mean, in the sense that we know he's had run-ins with the law before. He was sentenced to probation in 2021 after pleading guilty to an assault charge out in South Carolina. How serious is this? Well, it's a serious charge. You know, the possession, you know, the fact that that he has all of this cash on him, which might be indicative of someone making cash

transactions, yeah, there are serious charges and it should be taken seriously. The only other defense, Jesse, that I could think of that they may try is that they didn't have. probable cause to pull them over, you know, the tinted windows, you know, if that's a violation of law in Florida, then yeah, you have the probable cause. But did he permit them to search his vehicle? Is there suppression issues here? There might be a lot more to this case than we really know right now. That's a good point. And real quick, just to explain that, yeah, they stopped them because they thought that the windows were beyond what the legal limit is for the windows. What would be probable cause to search the car then? Well, I don't know that there would be probable cause to search the car.

Now, you can always get consent that they ask him. Can we search your vehicle? Amazingly, people who have contraband in their vehicle always agree to let the police check their vehicle. But so there's issues that have to be examined here, which I'm sure will be examined through pretrial motions. All right. Matthew Mangino, excellent to have you on as always. Thanks so much. Thank you, Jesse. For me to come in here and have the opportunity to show this community, show this city, show this organization, show this, show this locker room who the person I really am. And that's the main focus that I want to do is continue to show people who I really am and get my story out eventually. Is Cleveland Browns quarterback DeShon Watson about to sue the NFL? As we've discussed on sidebar, Watson has been accused

by multiple women of sexual misconduct. Now, in terms of a legal matter, he settled 20 out of the 24 lawsuits that he was facing and a Texas grand jury refused to indict him on criminal charges. However, it is a separate question as to whether Watson should play on the field. At this time, a retired federal judge named Sue Robinson is acting as an arbitrator in this case. And after listening to evidence and arguments surrounding possible violations of the league's personal conduct policy, we are currently waiting for a decision from Robinson on any disciplinary action for Watson. And it is being reported that if this should end with Watson receiving a long suspension, like a year. He and the NFLPA plan to sue the NFL in federal court. But is this really going to happen and how could this play out? Well, I'm joined right now by Mike Florio, founder of Pro Football Talk.com and a former lawyer. He's also the author of Playmakers, how the NFL really works and doesn't. Mike, good to see you again talking about Watson.

Good to be with you. And yes, this Watson thing has lingered for 16 months now and hopefully it won't be 16 more. Well, you tell me, I mean, the chances that he receives a suspension and a long suspension at that. I think there's a pretty good chance he gets a suspension. Some folks who are familiar with the case believe there will be something I was told yesterday, maybe in the range of two to eight games. Because ultimately, even though there were 24 lawsuits, as you mentioned, the NFL presented evidence that was accepted by Judge Robinson of four accusers, not 24. So it was narrowed down dramatically as the NFL tried to show a violation of the personal conduct policy. full season at this point will be difficult for the NFL to get either from Judge Robinson or on appeal. Now, if she imposes any discipline whatsoever, the commissioner steps in with the authority to handle the appeal. So who knows what will happen there? This is the first time

they're using this new procedure. So yes, if he is out for a year, the reporting is, and I have no reason to doubt it, they would try to take them out of court. But based upon some past cases that have gone to court, I don't think they would have any success there because, as you know, judges love it and the Federal Arbitration Act encourages it when parties have their own dispute resolution to respect it and do not get involved in it and clog up the court system with disputes that are being handled outside of a court of law. Now, you talk about past cases. I could be completely wrong. Didn't Tom Brady try to do this at one point?

Tom Brady won at the trial court level, Southern District of New York, but the NFL appealed to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit, which has jurisdiction over New York and a couple of other states. The NFL won there before a three-judge panel, two-to-one. Could have gone the other way. Anybody that practices law knows about this, you get those three judges, you find out basically when you show up that day. And you could be two-to-one winner, two-to-one loser. or it depends on who your judges are, NFL won. And then when Ezekiel Elliott was suspended a few years back, and he tried to beat the NFL to the punch and file suit in Texas

and preliminarily won, but then later it was determined, no, you started the process too early. The NFL's case back in the Southern District of New York takes precedence. It ended up back in that same track. And the Brady precedent tied the NFLPA's hands with Elliot. And I think in this same case, as long as the NFL wins the race to the courthouse and it's a rigged race because they know when the gavel is going to fall on Roger Goodell's decision, as long as they file a declaratory judgment action in SDNY before the NFLPA files a suit, they're under the same Brady precedent. And the bottom line is the NFLPA and the NFL have agreed to these procedures and those procedures are going to be respected. That's the Brady ruling in a nutshell, and that same thing would apply to Watson, especially since they were back at the bargaining table two years ago.

and they tweak these procedures. They had an opportunity to make them more fair from the NFLPA's perspective. But if they're not happy with the outcome, I don't think they're going to get any relief. So just to be clear, if it comes out that he's suspended for two, between two and eight games, is there a chance that Roger Goodell, the NFL and Watson and the NFLPA say, you know what, that's okay, let's move forward, or is it going to be a continued fight? You talked about it in an appeal by Roger Goodell. I mean, two to eight games is just not enough in their stance.

So assuming if that initial report is true, and that's what the suspension is, how do you see it playing out? There was a report several weeks back from the AP that if the suspension from Judge Robinson comes in in the range of six or eight, the NFL may not exercise its right to appeal, even though the commissioner has final say over the appeal process that they may just want it to be over at that point. So if it is six or eight, maybe it is done at that point. Maybe the NFL doesn't appeal. But the NFL isn't in the habit of giving up its rights. This is more than about Deshawn Watson. This is about the NFL emerging from the 2020 CBA negotiations with the power to swoop in and throw out whatever the disciplinary officer does, the independent judge in this case, Judge Robinson.

The NFL can say, no, we're taking control of this. The commissioner is going to issue the final decision. So it becomes more about power between the NFL and the NFLPA. That would be a reason for the league to pull. push forward and and remember it was in 2014 the ray rice case the perception the league didn't go far enough with rice almost brought down the commissioner so if the league is going to say we respect judge robinson's decision they're opening themselves up to criticism by people who would say wait a minute you don't have to respect it you've got the hammer on appeal if you want him out for a year

all you have to do is appeal it to the commissioner he's the guy that told the league's lawyers to try to get a year, go back to him, and he'll give you that year you're looking for. That's the risk they take if they don't appeal it. Yeah, and that's a really good point. So I guess we'll wait and see what Robinson ultimately decides. Mike Florio, thank you so much for coming on. I appreciate you taking the time. Good, good talking to you. I am not suicidal. Okay. I am not suicidal. I am innocent and I not suicide. If I did this, then it means that I stuck my fist in the fears of Black Americans in this country for over 400 years and the fears of the LGBTQ community. Your Honor, I respect you and I respect the jury. But I did not do this. And I am not suicidal. And if anything happens to me

when I go in there, I did not do it to myself. And you must all know that. I respect you, your honor. I respect your decision. Jail time. I am not suicidal. Okay. Let's talk a little Jesse Smollett right now. Last year, a jury convicted the former empire actor of five counts of disorderly conduct for lying to police about being the victim of a hate crime attack. And prosecutors were able to show that Smollett actually staged this crime.

He served six days of a 150-day jail sentence because he was seeking an appeal. But something interesting has happened since. We caught wind of this article from the. daily mail where they had a body language expert breakdown in interview that Jussie Smollett did with author and TV host Mark Lamont Hill back in September of 2020. Now, this was when Smollett was already facing these new disorderly conduct charges after a special prosecutor was assigned to the case. So it was a really critical and pivotal time in his legal case, his legal timeline. So the question was in this interview, was he lying, was he being misleading, was he embellishing,

or maybe he was telling the truth? we thought, why not call our own body language expert to break it down? So that's why I'm joined right now by Dr. Lillian Glass, a body language expert and communications consultant. And she's also the author of the book, The Body Language of Liars. Doctor, thanks so much for coming on. And with that title, we'll start right now if you think Jussie Smollett is lying. 150%.

150%, he's lying. He's showing so many signals of deception. You know, watching him is an excellent case to present before any law enforcement agency or any FBI agency or any university student to teach them how to detect deception, signals of deception, because there's so many of them that are evident when he speaks. Like what? Is it something to do with his facial expressions? body movement? That's part of it. One of the things you see often is he'll lick his lips and that means he's getting cotton mouth. He's getting dry mouth because the autonomic nervous system, so to speak, is working overtime. And so he's, all of his salivary glands are shutting down. So this is why you're getting him, seeing him lick his lips. Then you're also seeing him look away. You're seeing him touch his nose. You're seeing a lot of of shoulders shrugging when he speaks. And then you're hearing a word salad. He goes on and on

and he goes off a tangents. And he makes no sense. And this is a severe sign of deception. What about the way he moves his body? I noticed he moves a lot. I mean, my interpretation, he moves a lot during the course of the interview. You mentioned the way he touches his face. Was that anything that you noticed as well? That's a good observation, Jesse, because when he moves a lot, he's fidgeting. So that's another signal of deception. And I noticed in some of the interviews, he leans in a lot. So it's like he wants you to believe what he has to say.

There's so many tells, so to speak. There's so many signs that it becomes disturbing. And you really wonder that how can he really go on and keep saying this? The body doesn't lie. and neither does the voice. It just doesn't because it's hooked in neurologically. There are things deep in your brain which let things out, which allow you to leak things out.

And this is what's really going on with him. Another thing he does, he'll say something where he should have said yes and shake his hand, yes, and it'll be shaking it no. So again, the body knows when you're telling the truth and when you're not. But that's what's surprising to me, because if he is a trained actor, and I mentioned this on a previous podcast, I actually went to acting school at one point. Not my strongest, but whatever. The point is, is you're trying to find that truth and tell the truth.

And when you look at these actors, giving performances, for me, it comes off incredibly genuine, watching it. And it comes off as real. So wouldn't you expect that if he's telling this, and let's assume he's not telling the truth, that he would know how to tell the truth. Okay, let me, I really am glad you mentioned that you went to acting school, because I've worked with a lot of actors in my lifetime, teaching them body language for different movie roles. The whole key with being an actor is you're in the moment, and it's a very short period of time and a very limited thing that you're doing when you're speaking, when you're going into character. You can't maintain this constantly. You can't. And what's happening here is this is not about acting.

This is about his defending himself, and you would think that maybe he really believes it. But his body knows that it's not true because there are things that are leaking out. Otherwise, they wouldn't be leaking out. The public isn't stupid. They see it as well. Even though I can help them decipher the nuances, they know something is off. They just feel it, but they don't know exactly what. And when we look at all of these signs, that's when we see that just is.

is not telling the truth. Last question for you, because someone might look at this and say, listen, this is the way that he speaks, this is the way that he tells a story. They might say, hey, listen, when I tell a story, sometimes I look up to the ceiling to remember something, or I look down or I point, and then someone might look at it and say, I do the same things as Jesse Smut, but I'm telling the truth about the story. How do we know that this is not just the way that he speaks? It has to do with key moments.

What are you talking about? we all look up, we all look away. That's not the issue. But in what context, if you're talking about the two brothers and you're constantly looking aware, you're asked poignant questions and you're, you know, it's fidgeting. And that tells you something. So it has to be in the context. And that's what we're talking about. But certainly there may be signals that we do and that he may be doing that maybe are not deceptive. But when he does them in a sense, specific manner that is the context that we have to look at. Dr. Glass, two things.

One, now I'm self-conscious about everything I do on camera and what you see. But number two, I think I would love to have you on not only back on sidebar, but also on the network because having defendants take the stand, I would love to have your perspective on whether or not they're telling the truth. And we have some big cases coming on, Dr. Glass. This is wonderful. And I'd be honored to do it. In fact, this is what I do in real life for.

lawyers. I work with them in terms of looking at deposition tapes as well as surveillance tapes to see what's really going on in terms of body language. So I think that could be a big asset to you. Well, Dr. Glass, it's been a pleasure. Thank you so much for coming on to Sidebar. Absolutely. My pleasure as well. And everyone, thanks for joining us here on Sidebar. Please subscribe on Apple Podcast, Spotify, YouTube, wherever you get your podcast. Sidebar is produced by Sam Goldberg, YouTube manager Robert Zoki and Alyssa Fisher as our booking producer. I'm Jesse Weber. Speak to you next time.