Law&Crime Sidebar - LAPD Fires Back on ‘Bogus’ Claim of Frozen Body Found in D4vd Tesla

Starting point is 00:00:00 Wondery Plus subscribers can binge all episodes of this Law and Crimes series ad-free right now. Join Wondry Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. The back and forth continues. An LAPD official is pushing back on the claim that the body of 14-year-old Celeste Rivas Hernandez was frozen and decapitated. While the L.A. County Medical Examiner's office has confirmed there is a hold in place on any information coming out about what may have happened to her. There is a lot to break down. Let's get into it right now. Welcome to Sidebar.

Starting point is 00:00:32 Presented by Law and Crime. I'm Jesse Weber. Real quick, I've got to ask you something before we jump into all this. Have you ever left a meeting and thought to yourself, what do we just talk about for the last 30 minutes, hour? I've been there so many times. The good news is, poured an open, okay? This tiny AI-powered device, it is more than just a recorder, okay?

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Starting point is 00:01:19 So if you're over messy notes, it's time to try Plaud NoPin. Right now, you can get 20% off with code sidebar 20. Just click the link below. or scan the QR code. We have another update in the Celeste Rivas Hernandez investigation. So in the case where we do not currently have an announced cause or manner of death for the 14-year-old teenager from Lake Ellsino, California, who disappeared last year, whose body was apparently found in a bag in the trunk of a Tesla registered to singer David

Starting point is 00:01:46 back in September out in the Hollywood Hills, there has been a lot of speculation on what happened to her and a lot of confusion as to why the L.A. County Medical Examiner hasn't listed this information out yet. So the thought was that they're still waiting for toxicology reports, more information. It was listed as deferred. And then we go to the latest reporting from TMZ, which by the way, I don't know, was maybe debunked. So it came out that sources close to the investigation told TMZ that Celeste's body was frozen, that it had actually been thawing out when it was found in the car, that she had been decapitated, that her limbs had been severed, into pieces, and whether that complicated, knowing for sure what happened to her?

Starting point is 00:02:32 Here's the problem. This just came out. An LAPD captain and commanding officer of the Robbery Homicide Division told People magazine, this isn't true. Quote, Celeste's body was not frozen. She was not decapitated. The whole frozen thing doesn't even make sense. Her body was in the car for weeks.

Starting point is 00:02:51 Even if she had been frozen solid when she was put in the car, which there is no evidence to suggest she was, five or more weeks in the trunk of a car in sweltering heat in the middle of summer would not have resulted in a partially frozen body being discovered on September 8th. Now, Williams previously said that Celeste had been dead for at least several weeks. What is going on? And now we've got to talk about what just happened, okay? This is real. The medical examiner's office has removed information from Celeste's case on its publicly available website.

Starting point is 00:03:21 So according to a release from authorities yesterday, quote, At 10.54 a.m. on Friday, November 21st, the County of Los Angeles Department of Medical Examiner received a court order initiated by the Los Angeles Police Department to place a security hold on medical examiner case number 2025 14252-252 Celeste Rivas Hernandez. No records or details associated with the case, including the cause and manner of death and medical examiner report, can be released or posted on the website until further notice. The department's mission is to have full transparency with the community by providing information about our cases to empower people to make changes that save lives.

Starting point is 00:04:03 Since becoming the department head, I've worked on eradicating the practice of placing security holds on medical examiner cases simply by law enforcement request. The practice of security holds is virtually unheard of in other counties and has not been proven to improve outcomes in the legal system. We are dedicated to serving our community with full transparency, however, the law precludes us from doing so while the court order remains in this case. The department previously received a request for security hold from the LAPD on this case on September 15, 2025, which was denied due to insufficient justification to warrant the hold.

Starting point is 00:04:40 The department understands the public's interest in this case and remains committed to transparency when possible. Information will be made available once the court order is lifted. For questions about the court order, timeline, and the law enforcement investigation into this death, you can contact the LAPD. Now, I will add this. LAPD Captain Mike Bland told NBC4 investigates, quote, this is an ongoing RHD homicide case, robbery homicide division. And the purpose of the court order is to ensure the LAPD receives information on this case

Starting point is 00:05:10 from the medical examiner's office before the public does. Now, by the way, Steve Fisher, who we've had on this program before, the private investigator, who was hired by the owner of that rental property that David was reportedly staying at, which was near where this abandoned Tesla with Celeste's body inside where it was found and where it was towed. Again, someone we've had on this show numerous times to talk about his investigation. He wrote this on X, quote, I appreciate the commitment to transparency by the L.A. County Medical Examiner's Office. They previously denied an LAPD request for security hold on the case. Now LAPD obtained a court order sealing the case. The timing of that, along with

Starting point is 00:05:47 the wording of the news release from the medical examiner's office, leads me to believe a cause and manner of death have been determined in the case of Celeste Rivas Hernandez, and the ME's investigative and autopsy reports are completed. Is he right? Now, to couple that, something else I've got to talk about. According to the LA Times, according to court documents that they reviewed, a detective has categorized this investigation as a, quote, investigation into murder. Now, that is very significant because the LAPD previously indicated that there might not be a crime beyond concealment of a body. So this was paperwork in support of not releasing the M.E.'s findings, which I just mentioned. And you had LAPD Detective Joshua Byers who said in a declaration that was filed

Starting point is 00:06:32 that release of these autopsy findings could taint or jeopardize this apparent murder investigation. Quote, will reveal or tend to reveal the ongoing investigation and the integrity of the investigation, as well as the identity of witnesses and or informants who are cooperating with law enforcement and the content of the information they have provided, which could endanger the lives of witnesses and or compromise the investigation. And Los Angeles Superior Court Judge Craig Richmond granted the LAPD's request with respect to not releasing the MEs information. And by the way, last week, LAPD Deputy Chief Alan Hamilton, who oversees the department's detective operations, said, quote, accountability is coming. Our RHD detectives have

Starting point is 00:07:13 been working and not waiting for that decision by the medical examiner. They are going to get justice for Celeste Revis. No one is off the table, including him seemingly referring to David. Let me bring on right now a special guest to try to get some clarity about what all this means. I want to bring on Dr. Neda Rutherford, Richland County coroner here. Doctor, thank you so much for coming on. Let's start first off. What is a security hold? And how often do you see something like that? It's very rare that we see a security hold. But usually when we see it, it may. means that there is very valuable and specific information about that cause of death and the manner of death that they do not want to release to the public. It means that there is something

Starting point is 00:07:54 so unique about that death that they want to hold that information close to the chest so that they can still conduct their investigation without the public frenzy that they know will happen once they start releasing details. So whether that drugs were found in the system, the way the body was found. They've said that she wasn't dismembered, but was there something else unique about the trauma that could have been associated with her body? They have something specific that they do not want the public to know right now. And in my humble opinion, as a person who works with law enforcement and as a coroner who does active investigations, if there's something very specific and we release that to the public, we could totally mess up the entire investigation.

Starting point is 00:08:40 You could lose witnesses. They don't want to do. deal with whatever information was found right now, they are still doing an active investigation. And so if holding that information close to their chest is going to help them get justice for this potentially murdered 15-year-old, then I think that they should do it. And everyone should be in agreement with that. So do you think, do you agree with Steve that right now, the Emmy's office has definitively a cause and manner of death for Celeste Revis Hernandez? I do believe they know what her cause and manner of death are at this point. And the fact that they have pushed for this hold so hard, they denied the first one.

Starting point is 00:09:19 And then they went back again. What did you make of that? The fact that they requested it all the way back September 15th, seven days after her body was found. They want to keep information close to them for this investigation. You have to think about this. You have someone who's a celebrity. you have someone who has money, power, resources, and the people around that person also have money, power, and resources. So how do you infiltrate and penetrate all of those things if you are giving all of the information to the public?

Starting point is 00:09:52 I'm all for transparency, but gosh, we want to know what happened to her, and the people doing the investigation should have that information first before the public gets it and tears it up. And just to be clear, if we take all this is true, if it was denied all the way back in September, there's a possibility, would I be totally wrong by saying maybe they didn't have the cause and manner of death yet? Maybe it was too premature. Maybe it was too early for the LAPD to request that no information be shared. But now the Emmy's office may have cause and manner of death. And the whole situation has changed. And maybe you're right. There's something in there that they say, this is going to taint the investigation. So do you think that my timeline might be right there? Oh, absolutely. And here's the other thing. When you have a body that is decomposed, it takes longer to get that cause and manner of death. The body is breaking down. It is literally liquefying. You've got a car found in a hot area encased in metal. And the body is going to break down even faster. Whether she was frozen, not frozen, you put a body out in the heat. It's going to decompose. And we don't know how, this body exactly was found? Was it found encased in plastic? Was it found inside of a suitcase? How was the body found? How was it dressed? How was it draped or clothed? All of those things become so important. This girl's been missing for a year, a year before her body was discovered. And there have been reports about when her last known sighting was, I will get into a second when it seems authorities believe she might have died. Put that to the side for a second.

Starting point is 00:11:31 You mentioned something very important here. This back and forth on freezing, I said this in our episode yesterday, if this reporting is true not true, how distressing this must be for the family to hear something like this. But I have to tell you, when I was doing the episode, I was like, it doesn't make sense that the body was found thawing. It was in a hot car. When would a frozen body have been transferred? It seems that when the car was parked there, the body was already inside. So the fact that you have, it's very hard to get definitive information.

Starting point is 00:12:01 in this case. And yes, there's speculation. And sources say this, but this idea of the body being frozen and thawing out, I got to say, I'm not surprised that it's been debunked, seemingly debunked. Here's the thing. The medical examiner knows exactly how that body was presented to them and to that office. So even if, let's say she was frozen. Let's say they're trying to throw us off by saying, oh, that wasn't the case. Her body would be well preserved had it been frozen. And you would actually have more of a whole body in front of you. So if she was thawing in the car, yes, she's going to decompose and the rate of decomposition is going to be what it is. But if she was frozen and then put in the car, like let's say she was stored someplace, we've had cases like this

Starting point is 00:12:48 here in our county where someone was in a deep freezer for years. And then the body started to decompose once the power was cut off to that site. So the idea of her body being frozen and thawing, it's a very real possibility. But that in me, report, that autopsy report, how that body was found and that determination of how long she could have possibly been dead. They have so many things that they can utilize from bug activity to looking at just how much of her body had decomposed. Was there parts of her body that were mummified? Was she left someplace and then frozen? You will see decomposition even in that. So there's a lot that the medical examiner's report is going to have in it.

Starting point is 00:13:31 Do you think, based on what I just read to you, this hold, do you think there's a possibility that it's undetermined? They can't tell exactly what happened to her, or does that seem unlikely? Because if it was undetermined, why not release that information unless they believe this would cause an uproar? How could you not know what happened? You know, there's a, obviously, there's a number of reasons why that could be. And please elaborate on them. But do you think it's maybe unlikely that the cause of death, the manner of death is undetermined? It's a possibility. You have five manners of death to choose from natural, accidental, suicide, homicide, and undetermined.

Starting point is 00:14:10 Those are the five manners of death. And so when you get to undetermined, it means that all of the other manners of death are equally likely, and you cannot make a determination. And so, again, the state that her body was in is going to be very, very important. If there are any organs that they can look at, can they look at her liver? Can they look at her kidneys? Are her eyes intact enough to be able to pull vitreous out to be able to determine if there's any, you know, blood or a chemical that's in her system that has kind of been able to be maintained in that vitreous fluid? What other things are present? And so what I hear when I, when I'm reading all of this and I'm hearing all these different reports, they know something. And they are trying to put the pieces of the puzzle together. for a clearer picture. What did you make of that response from the chief medical examiner regarding the security hold? My interpretation is there's a bit of resistance here, right? There's a bit of resistance. And that was a statement to make there. What did you make of that?

Starting point is 00:15:08 So I think he's frustrated. I think he's saying, I want to release this information, but they're telling me that I cannot do it. I think he just really wants his hands out of it because once they make their determination and it goes to court, he can talk about his findings and explain everything, but I'm sure his office is getting railed with the number of phone calls, requests that are coming in from the media outlets, the community outcry from all of this. So I think it's probably more of a resistance, like, please let us go ahead and release this

Starting point is 00:15:39 so that we can get back to all of the thousands of other cases that we have coming through that office. The line to empower people to make changes that save lives, does that indicate something about what might have happened to Celeste? Here's what I take from that. this girl was, and not that she deserved to die, so I am not saying that you have a 15-year-old with a history of running away. You have a 15-year-old who maybe was getting into some trouble and maybe they want to release information. That would be a cautionary tale to some of the

Starting point is 00:16:10 other children in that area who may be runaways, who may be rebelling against their parents or the homes that they're growing up in. So maybe that's what he means. But what I took from his statement was that he wants the public to know what happened. But he also has to follow the court order. So I certainly don't feel like he's trying to be combative in his response, but he certainly wants to release the information. And based on everything that's come out now at this point in time, does it seem to you that Celeste was murdered? This is smelling a lot like a homicide. It's smelling a lot like a homicide. It does not seem like a natural death. Could it be accidental? Sure. Could it be self-inflicted? Sure, but it's smelling a lot like a homicide.

Starting point is 00:16:57 You know, it was reported that LAPD may be considering David a suspect and that there is potentially a second suspect as well, TMZ reporting about this trip that the singer allegedly took to a remote area in Santa Barbara in the spring, and you had an LAPD official not authorized to speak publicly about the investigation, but apparently told NBC4 investigates that Celeste potentially died in the spring. what do you make of that potential time of death and what do you make of who potentially could be involved in disposing of her body in whatever way her body was ultimately disposed of? So if her last known moments are to be in the spring, then it would make a whole lot of sense

Starting point is 00:17:41 that her body was preserved to the point that they had a smelling, rotting body in a car decomposing. That would make a lot of sense. This is why I keep going back to this. Again, I know they said, oh, they've debunked this frumer. No, you really haven't, in my opinion, because all it takes is a person who can read through all of these different reports and all these different accounts. If she was there and all of a sudden she wasn't, where was she? The people who were with her should know where she was and they should be able to give an account as to where she may have been. Was he hiding her out? Did something happen? He's with another person on this. trip? Was it just him and Celeste? Who were the people who last saw Celeste alive? And it's going

Starting point is 00:18:25 to take people knocking on doors, asking questions, and trying to appeal to their human nature to say, what happened to this 15-year-old kid? She's not a young adult at this point. She is a child who is around adults who may have wanted to do her harm for whatever the reasons may be. here's the million dollar question how long does this court order last if you know in your experience because here's the bottom question when do you think we will all get answers as to the cause and manner of death when will that be released how long will the court order be in place for will there be an arrest first and then it be lifted in your experience what can we anticipate there in my experience usually there's an arrest and then they release information so it's one

Starting point is 00:19:11 of those things where they want to have all of their ducks in a row and then share with the public how they came to make the arrest that they made, which makes a lot of sense from an investigative standpoint, but from a public interest standpoint, it's like, you know, who may have done this to her? And is there a cause for community concern? Is there someone going around snatching 15-year-olds who may have a little bit of trouble in their past, luring them away from their homes or luring them away from whatever safe place they're in and killing them? So I think there is a definite reason for public interest in this case outside of just the sensationalism that you have, a wealthy, you know, star singer who may have been

Starting point is 00:19:51 involved in this. But what other information does the public need to know? And is this something that can be used as a cautionary tale for students who may be in the same situation? I ask every guess this. And I hope you can provide some light on it as well. Is the family? It's less family going to be notified first about cause and manner of death before anybody else. I know this is a sensitive investigation, but given how high profile this is, how many different theories there are, should they be notified? Do they think they have the information right now? What would you think best practices are? To me, the family should know first. In my investigations, before I do a press conference,

Starting point is 00:20:32 before I do a news release, I sit down and I talk with that family, whether it's by a phone, whether it's in person, I always speak to them and say, hey, here's the cause of death. the manner of death, here's the information that I'm going to release to the media, I want to give you a heads up that these are the things that will be said so that you are hearing them firsthand from me and not from a media outlet. And to me, that gives respect not only to the decedent, the person who's died, but also to the family and the grief that they are having to endure. Dr. Neda Rutherford, I really appreciate you and I really appreciate you coming on. Thank you so much for giving your perspective on this as we tried to navigate. What is true?

Starting point is 00:21:10 what are the answers what can we expect this is a unique case i mean there's whiplash right now back and forth and my thoughts my prayers are with the family right now this is a very difficult journey for them to navigate but thank you so much for coming on thank you so much for having me and that's all we have for you right now here on sidebar everybody thank you so much for joining us and as always please subscribe on youtube apple podcast Spotify wherever you should get your podcast you can follow me on x or instagram i'm jesse weber i'll speak to you next time You can binge all episodes of this long crime series ad free right now on Wondery Plus.

Starting point is 00:21:56 Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.

Law&Crime Sidebar - LAPD Fires Back on ‘Bogus’ Claim of Frozen Body Found in D4vd Tesla

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