Law&Crime Sidebar - Lori Vallow Daybell: Doomsday Cult Mom Accused of Murdering Her Children — The Story So Far

Episode Date: March 30, 2023

Doomsday cult mom Lori Vallow Daybell faces trial Monday for the murders of her children, J.J. Vallow and Tylee Ryan. This twisted doomsday case is full of false prophecies, lies, cover-ups, and tragedy. The Law&Crime Network’s Angenette Levy and GiGi McKelvey break down what we know about the Lori Vallow Daybell case so far with forensic death investigator Joseph Scott Morgan. PLEASE SUPPORT THE SHOW:Click https://vessi.com/ and use code "SIDEBAR" for 15% off your entire order! Free shipping to CA, US, AU, JP, TW, KR, SGP.LAW&CRIME SIDEBAR PRODUCTION:YouTube Management - Bobby SzokePodcasting - Sam GoldbergWriting & Video Editing - Michael DeiningerGuest Booking - Alyssa FisherSocial Media Management - Vanessa Bein & Kiera BronsonSUBSCRIBE TO OUR OTHER PODCASTS:Court JunkieObjectionsThey Walk Among AmericaCoptales and CocktailsThe Disturbing TruthSpeaking FreelyLAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandcrime/Twitter: https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetworkFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawandcrimeTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lawandcrimenetworkTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lawandcrimeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can binge all episodes of this Law and Crimes series ad-free right now. Join Wondry Plus in the Wondery app Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Agent Nate Russo returns in Oracle 3, Murder at the Grandview, the latest installment of the gripping Audible Original series. When a reunion at an abandoned island hotel turns deadly, Russo must untangle accident from murder. But beware, something sinister lurks in the grand. View Shadows. Joshua Jackson delivers a bone-chilling performance in this supernatural thriller that will

keep you on the edge of your seat. Don't let your fears take hold of you as you dive into this addictive series. Love thrillers with a paranormal twist? The entire Oracle trilogy is available on Audible. Listen now on Audible. How would you like to reflect your plea? You're on behalf of Mrs. Daybell. She enters a not guilty plea to both charges and requests for a pretrial and a jury trial. Lori Valo Daybell's murder trial is a twisted tale of zombies, extreme Mormonism, and murder. Her trial is about to begin. I'm Ann Janette Levy, and welcome to Law and Crime's Sidebar podcast. Lori Valade Bell's trial is beginning very soon in Boise, Idaho. It was actually moved from Fremont County, which is a smaller area, to Ada County, a larger urban area. Judge Stephen Boyce has barred cameras from the courtroom.

This story is sad with a lot of twist and turns. Lori faces three counts of first-degree murder for the deaths of her children, daughter Tiley Ryan, and her adopted son, J.J. Valo, with her ex-husband Charles Valo, who is now dead. More on that in just a little bit. Lori also faces a charge of grand theft. She's accused of taking Social Security survivor benefits meant for J.J. and Tiley. In addition to that, Lori faces conspiracy to murder Tammy Daybell. the wife of her now husband, Chad Daybell, who's accused of murdering Tammy, J.J. and Tiley.

Chad will be tried separately, which is a somewhat recent development. This story begins in late 2019 when Lori's daughter, Tiley and J.J. went missing. This prompted a national search for the children with no help from Lori and no help from her new husband, Chad Daybell. This photo from September 2019 is the last known photo of Tiley and Jay J.J. alive at Yellowstone National Park. Lori and Chad married in Hawaii in November 2019, less than a month after Tammy Daybell died. Chad is an author and a self-proclaimed prophet. He and Lori are both Mormon. The same month, J.J.'s grandparents asked police in Rexburg, Idaho to check on J.J. and Tiley. The children were nowhere to be found. The boyfriend of Lori's best friend,

Melanie Gibb, testified at a hearing about the last time he saw JJ with Lori's brother, Alex Cox. I believe Mr. Cox bringing JJ into Lori's house. Yes. Do you recall what time that was? Don't recall it exactly. Okay. Later in the night.

Okay. Was Chad Daybell there? What's that? Was Chad Daybell there at that same time? No. Let's talk about the morning of September. September 23rd, 2019. What did you do that morning?

I got up to get ready to go, and then I went downstairs to say goodbye to everybody. Okay, and who was there? Melanie Gibb and Lori Vallow. Okay. Did you see JJ there? No. Did you talk to Lori about JJ that morning?

I did. What did she tell you about JJ that morning? She said that he was being a zombie and climbed up on the cabinets, climbed up on top of the bridge, smashed her picture of Christ down, and then climbed up onto the upper cabinets and got between the top of the cabinet and the ceiling. Okay. And then what did she tell you? I asked to see him and she just said that he was out of control. So she had Alex coming to get him.

In another twist, Alex Cox dies in December 2019 from blood clots in his lungs. After months of searching for Tiley and JJ to no avail, police make a gruesome discovery in June 2020 on Chad Daybell's property. The bodies of J.J. Valo and Tiley Ryan are on earth. The evidence that has been concealed in this case, it's not simply a document, drugs, a gun. these are human remains and we can although those remains have not yet been positively identified we are aware that those remains are the remains of children which we believe is an aggravating factor we we have asked that the probable cause affidavit be sealed but i would ask the court to take note of paragraphs 39 and 40 and the manner of the concealment of one of those bodies

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He had the same style haircut that he had in the videos that I had seen and the photographs I had seen just prior to my welfare check with him in September, the last photograph I had seen on September 22nd. And that was shaved on the sides and longer on top. Okay. Thank you. Um, were there any other items of, were there any other, uh, items of, were there any other, uh, items of interest to you on that body? Yes. Can you just, uh, what were they?

His hands were folded about chest tie. Detective, can you lift that a little bit higher so at, if you're folded like this chest tie. He had duct tape continuously wrapped from elbow. all the way around his arms, over his hands, all the way to his right elbow, several layers of duct tape that were tightly wrapped. Tiley's body had been burned, and there were attempts to dismember her. People started asking questions, then, with all of this happening, about Tammy Daybell's death, as more and more information came to light

about Chad and Lori's religious beliefs. So remember that they were saying that, um, Tammy, how to do you? become a zombie. Lori, from what I understand, said that she has been on 21 planets and Chad has been on 31. Have you heard that before? I wouldn't say planets but I would just say lives. Lives. So she's had 21 lives and he's had 31. That he was a Holy Ghost and has had five lives on this earth and she's had four lives. Correct. Well, no, I think she had five lives on this earth. She had five lives on this earth. They both had five lives on this earth.

I believe so. And Chad made a portal in Lori's closet so she can visit him. What is that mean? That sounds kind of crazy. I'll be honest. It does. It does sound crazy. Lori and Chad allegedly believed that zombies could actually inhabit the bodies of people here on earth. People like JJ and Tiley Ryan and Charles Vallow, Lori's ex-husband. Chad and Lori apparently also believed that the only way to get rid of these zombies was to kill the body of the person that the zombie inhabits because the person then is in limbo. Her religious stuff is gone. Way off the deep.

That was Charles in 2019, trying to get help for Lori. He called police in Arizona. Charles was shot months later in July at his home by Lori's brother, Alex Cox. At first, it appeared to be a case of self-defense, and that's what people thought after interviewing Alex and Lori and Tiley, for that matter. But after all of this happened, police reopened the case. They took another look and determined that it was a murder. Tammy Daybell's body was later exhumed, and an autopsy was conducted, which hadn't been done before.

Her death was labeled a homicide, a murder, in fact. It had originally been classified as a death due to natural causes. Now the trial for the murder of Tammy, JJ, and Tiley begins. It's a very twisted case that we've been outlining for you, a lot of different tentacles to this. So I thought we should bring in two experts on the case to discuss this. this. Joining me is Joseph Scott Morgan, Forensic Death Investigator and host of the Bodybags podcast. And G.G. McHelvey, a law and crime correspondent and host of the Pretty Lies and Alibis podcast. And she is basically an expert on all things Valdebel. So thanks to both of you for being

here today. Joseph, I will start with you on this. We know that JJ's body was recognizable when the law enforcement officers dug up the grave in Chad Daybell's yard. Tiley's body had been burned. Tammy Daybell later exhumed and was determined that she died by homicide. How important will the forensics be in this case? Monumental because with both of these children who were murdered, every each body is going to present with specific forensic information, just taking JJ alone, his body was cocooned, and so it was essentially secured in a couple of ways. There was kind of a layering that went on with his cocooning, where his body was secured. And you can go off kind of into the weeds with this, but there was a certain level of memorialization of his body.

contrasting that with Tiley's remains who were treated certainly less in a very disrespectful way all of this is disrespectful but when you you kind of contrast those two they're distinctly different so if you go back to the wrappings that you begin to think about with JJ

significant piece to this is going to be when the body was cocooned anything that was on his person at that time when he was placed in the tarp they had a bag all that sort of stuff is going to be contained therein so I hope that they took due care

when they were analyzing his body and getting the body ready to go to the morgue and then unwrapping him at that time I would have preferred that they not have even partially unwrapped him at the scene just you know that you have a dead body you don't need anything else beyond that

but there was an effort to open a bag that's been widely reported. When we begin to look at Tiley, the forensics are going to be different because there was such an assault on her remains. And so, again, going back to my old buddy, Edmond LaCard, every contact leaves a trace. So we've heard about arson or an attempt to burn her body. That's going to leave back specific forensic tiebacks when we think about accelerants, anything that is specific to starting that fire,

any kind of fuel sources like wood, candling, paper, anything that they found there at the scene. And in this effort that we're not real clear on completely to essentially dismember her body, at least on a limited basis, we began to look at things like tool marks, which are going to play a big role, knowing some of the things that we know about the nature,

particularly this prop, I think it's going to be a big, big piece to this. And anything that was discarded or dropped down into that defect in the ground where she was is going to play a big role. And, of course, we have this melted bucket that was out there, too, that they made note of. I think that that's going to be significant as well. G.G., there was a notice of alibi filed by Lori Valdebel's defense team in this case. you know, I'm not sure what the prosecution is going to do with that. Tell us about what Lori

Daybell, or Lori Valo Daybell says was going on with her at the time that her children went missing and were murdered. Her alibi is that she was in her apartment with Melanie Gibb, David Warwick, and or Chad Daybell when the children were killed. Now, for Tammy, she allegedly was in Hawaii. But the thing is they have a list of witnesses, some of which are surprising names that are coming on for the state to refute her alibi. Some of those names, Melanie Gibb, which is her best friend, Melanie Polowski, who is her niece, David Warwick, who was there, and one of the last people, by the way, to see David Warwick and Melanie Gibb were the last people outside of the murderous crew to see JJ alive. You have Apple and Google business records, and then Zulimma. So they, they,

are going to testify for the state essentially, I think, and just destroy her alibi. And we'll see where it goes from there. But, you know, Lori's always found a way to physically try to separate herself from every single crime that has happened with Charles. There was some discrepancies when he was shot and murdered by Alex Cox that she was outside the house, but she said she was inside the house. All their stories were very different. But in this case, they have determined that the kids were likely murdered in Alex's apartment. Lori says she was in hers with David Warwick, Melanie Gibb, who were in town visiting and or Chad Daybell.

Gigi and Joseph, we've both, we've all three covered enough cases to know. You don't have to be physically present to have been a part of something. You can have had knowledge about it. Conspiracy is a part of this case as well, which means there was a plan. So whether or not Lori Valo Daybell was, physically present when her children were murdered, that doesn't matter. It doesn't amount to a hill of beans. She is their mother. They were minors. And she is in charge of their care. She has a duty of care to her children. Now, that might not be part of the charges, but she can still be part of the

plan and be found guilty, even if she wasn't present. So Joseph, I'll let you talk about that first, and we'll get Gigi's thoughts on that. Yeah, and, you know, when we begin to think of JJ, he had certain conditions that he was dealing with. And she's the custodian here, you know, relative to his care, do care. And just looking at this, you know, I think that it goes without saying that she missed the mark here. She failed miserably. And, yeah, you're right.

If she's part of this conspiracy as it's coming together, I'll tell you, it might, you know, Angie Net, you mentioned that it might not be part of the case itself. But you know who's going to think about this? The parents that are on that jury. Oh, of course. Yes. Any parent. They're going to, yeah, they're going to look at her, whether

they've heard about this case or not, I don't know how they could not have heard about it in Idaho, they're going to look at her and they're thinking, you know, you failed to take do care of this child that was totally and completely dependent upon you that had a very specific diagnosis in his life. We haven't even gotten into Tiley. Tiley's a girl that is, you know, maturing into young adulthood at this point in time, very critical moment time for her in her development and you failed her. You failed her. And so I'll be very curious to see what her level of involvement is that the state is going to put forth. And that's going to be very impactful in this case. Tiley apparently had wanted to be emancipated. That didn't happen. What gets me is when I look

at pictures of Tiley with JJ, it breaks my heart. She obviously loved him very much. Talk to me a little bit about that. Yeah. And in fact, Lori's sister Summer Schifflett told in, I think she was on an interview with Dateline or Nate Eaton, one of those. And she said, Tiley had to have been killed first because she would have never let anything happen to JJ. And every picture that you see, even that very last photo from Yellowstone National Park, I've always thought Tiley looked unhealthy in that picture. Now, it could have been stress. It could have been just, she was uprooted again. She sees this downward spiral her mom is on with these weird people coming around. We know she did not like Chad. She had gotten vocal with her mom. Melanie Gibbs said she didn't think the relationship between

the two of them was great at all. But, you know, the thing about that photo that sticks out to me is Tiley, JJ has his arms around her. He looks like he feels safe. She has her arms protectively around him. And in spite of the chaos, she is smiling. And her happy place was with that that boy. And I think a lot of the care came down to Tiley in the end because Lori was checked out. Now, going back to the conspiracy thing, she reminds me a lot of Charles Manson in that she was, she definitely had a hand in the conspiracies, but never maybe actually killed anybody. We don't know that for sure yet. But I would suspect, as usual with Lori, she had somebody else do her dirty work. It's going to be a very interesting trial. We know a lot from these document

dumps that came out from Charles's murder, as well as Brandon Boudreau's attempted murder. We have no clue what they have in Idaho. So I am very curious to see exactly what they have. Chad's cell phone pings at critical times. We don't know where he was. We don't know DNA that they found. It's going to be very eye-opening. And most importantly, it's going to be heartbreaking. Any way you look at it, this, I don't think those of us who are emotionally invested, and especially the families are ready for what you're going to be. And Gigi, you know, it's just, it's one of these cases where you can see how people pervert. And of course, Lori Valadebel and Chad Daybell, I must say, are entitled to a fair trial as anyone else is in our criminal justice system. So

they are entitled to a fair trial. They're presumed innocent until proven guilty. But you really see a perversion of religion here. Yeah, you do. And I think kind of just going with what Joseph was saying, I think that Chag maybe felt powerful that this little band of misfits bought what he was selling more than he believed what he was selling. But I do think that Lori and Alex especially, if you go through the document dump and read the text back and forth between them, he was 100% convinced all this was real. They gave him power. They told him initially, you're just a baby on earth. This is your first time. By the end, you're the protector of one of the most important people in this mission, which is Lori, you know,

but I think at the end of the day, what this jury is going to see is that you may have mental illness, which, by the way, is not coming in as part of her defense strategy in the guilt or innocence phase. That's her choice. But you can be mentally ill, but when you lie and cover up and make up these elaborate self-defense or J-Js with Melanie Gibb or Tileys at BYU, you know what she did was wrong, you don't hide it because the day they murdered Charles Valo, if she really were that mentally ill, she would have said, yeah, we didn't kill Charles, we killed Iplos, or we didn't kill JJ, we killed a demon that got in him, we killed a demon that got entirely. I think that's going to be her undoing is her elaborate lie after lie. And you know what I'm saying?

She's just sunk herself because she's always throughout her life from everything we've seen, been able to lie her way out of any situation that she's been backed into a corner in. And I think the buck stops here. She will face the consequences for her actions for the first time in her life, I think. I think a big part of this is I wonder if she's going to testify. Oh, I kind of wondered that too, actually. You know, she's thinking, you know, Gigi's talking about how she's a chronic pervaricator, you know. and, you know, it seems to be in her wheelhouse. That's in her toolbox. You know, is she going to continue this on? You know, when this goes to trial in just a couple of weeks here, is she going to get up in the, you know, stand there in the dock and testify, go under direct and then be cross-examine. I'll be fascinated by that.

Well, she does think that she's going to be exonerated. So I would not put it past her one bit to do. what she did if you watched that, that video in the police station and Chandler at the day, Charles was murdered. You've been 30 minutes. They offered her a victim's advocate. And that goes to show you how she is able to convince police when she told the investigator, Charles was having affairs. Melanie Gibb later asked her, do you have proof of that?

Nope, I don't. I know how to work the police. So she may be that confident, even now after years of sitting in jail awaiting trial. I can get on the stand and convince this jury. I was a great mom. I knew nothing. And we'll see how that goes. But man, I'll give my right arm to see her on that stand. Well, let me tell you, those body camera videos of Charles Vallow when he was calling police for help are heartbreaking to watch. I find them horrifying. Well, Gigi and Joseph, I really appreciate you joining me. I want to know all about Lori Valo Daibel's mental health diagnosis. I don't think we'll find out, but I want to know. And I, to Gigi and I were talking about this a couple weeks ago, I think it's possible she takes the stand.

Just my feeling I could be wrong, but it's her choice. So Gigi and Joseph, thank you so much for joining me again. We appreciate your time as always. And that's it for this edition of Law and Crime's Sidebar podcast. You can download and listen to Sidebar on Apple, Spotify, Google, and wherever else you get your podcast. And of course, you can always watch it on Law and Crimes YouTube channel. I'm Ann Jeanette Levy, and we will see you next time. You can binge all episodes of this long crime series, add free right now on Wondery Plus.

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