Law&Crime Sidebar - Major Update in Bleach-in-Throat Burned Body Case

Episode Date: December 5, 2025

Two defendants accused of the horrifying murder of 22-year-old Mercedes Vega, who was allegedly shot, beaten, had bleach poured down her throat, and was left to die in a burning car, could now face the ultimate punishment. Prosecutors in Maricopa County, Arizona are officially seeking the death penalty against Cudjoe Young and Sencere Hayes, who police believe murdered Vega to prevent her from testifying against Young in an armed robbery case. Law&Crime’s Jesse Weber sits down with criminal defense attorney and former prosecutor Kurt Altman to get expert insight on what this means for the trial moving forward. Plus, hear directly from Mercedes’ parents, Erika and Tom Pillsbury, as they share their emotional reaction to the capital punishment decision.PLEASE SUPPORT THE SHOW: Download the FREE Upside App at https://upside.app.link/sidebar to get an extra 25 cents back for every gallon on your first tank of gas.HOST:Jesse Weber: https://twitter.com/jessecordweberLAW&CRIME SIDEBAR PRODUCTION:YouTube Management - Bobby SzokeVideo Editing - Michael Deininger, Christina O'Shea, Alex Ciccarone, & Jay CruzScript Writing & Producing - Savannah Williamson & Juliana BattagliaGuest Booking - Alyssa Fisher & Diane KayeSocial Media Management - Vanessa BeinSTAY UP-TO-DATE WITH THE LAW&CRIME NETWORK:Watch Law&Crime Network on YouTubeTV: https://bit.ly/3td2e3yWhere To Watch Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3akxLK5Sign Up For Law&Crime's Daily Newsletter: https://bit.ly/LawandCrimeNewsletterRead Fascinating Articles From Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3td2IqoLAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandcrime/Twitter: https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetworkFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawandcrimeTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lawandcrimenetworkTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lawandcrimeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wonderry Plus subscribers can binge all episodes of this Law and Crimes series ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Two defendants accused of targeting a young woman in Arizona, pouring bleach down her throat, and leaving her in a burning car while she was still alive, could now receive the ultimate punishment. Prosecutors have announced that they are seeking the death penalty. So what does this mean for trial preparation in the case as it moves forward? Now, we're not only getting expert insight from a criminal defense attorney and former prosecutor, but we are also sitting down with the victim's parents to get their reaction to the capital punishment decision.

Did you stand there and watch her burn? Did you, did she scream? Did she say anything? They didn't just take her life. They destroyed all of our lives. Yes. Welcome to Sidebar. Presented by Law and Crime. I'm Jesse Weber.

Okay, real quick, before we jump into this, any of the first. further. The reason we can do a deep dive into this kind of story is because of the support that we get from our sponsor, Upside. Now, this is a free app that gets a cashback on Daily Essentials, like gas, groceries. It is so easy to use when I go pump my gas, I can use Upside. I go to a convenience store, I can use Upside. And that's right, this is real cashback. After you spend, money appears in your Upside account that you can transfer right into your bank account. So here's what you do. You download the Upside app for free. You buy whatever you plan to purchase. You pay as usual with a debit or credit card. You file a claim in the app and just

like that, money back. So to find out how much you can save with upside, click the link in the description or scan the QR code on screen, but make sure to use our promo code sidebar because you'll get an extra 25 cents back on every gallon on your first tank of guess. 22-year-old Mercedes Vega of Tempe, Arizona, was independent and strong, according to her family. Not one who would easily back down from a fight. And when she was the target of an armed robbery, She was reportedly prepared to give a statement against the accused robber, but before she had a chance to, prosecutors alleged that that man went to extreme lengths to keep her quiet, ultimately ending her life. And now, if convicted, this suspect could face a death sentence of a zone.

That has just come out. Maricopa County prosecutors announced on Wednesday that they plan to seek the death penalty against 29-year-old Kudjo Young and 23-year-old since Sarah Hayes. In a press release, the Maricopa County Attorney Rachel Mitchell stated, I believe the death penalty is an appropriate sentence in consideration for the jury for these two defendants. We will continue to pursue justice for Mercedes Vega and her family. Now, I want to give you a quick rundown of how we got to this point, because I think it'll make sense of why prosecutors are moving forward here with the death penalty. This started with the discovery of Mercedes body in April of 2023 inside of a burning car along I-10.

Now, this is near Tanopa. It's more than an hour away from where Mercedes lived in Tempe. Investigators believe that Mercedes was kidnapped from her apartment building's parking garage. The last time she's seen alive is on surveillance video that shows her walking from the elevator out into the garage, and her apparent abduction happened off camera. But hours after she was allegedly taken, dispatchers get a call about a burning car on the roadside. It was like down in the bushes, but I saw a plane inside vehicle. Okay, see, they're on the westbound night ten? Yes.

Yes. Just north of the highway. I don't really know what it is. I can tell you. Okay. Unknown vehicle. Okay. You said there's people outside the vehicle?

I believe I saw at least one person outside, yes. In the back seat of that burning Chevy Malibu, first responders found Mercedes. The medical examiner confirmed she had been shot in the arm, beaten, had bleach poured down her throat, and was burned alive. She ultimately died from smoke inhalation, according to the M.E.'s office. It's just a savage killing. It is an awful crime. But it would be evidence that was found in Vega's abandoned Dodge Charger that would lead authorities to the three suspects, Senzer Hayes, Cajou Young, and Jared Gray. So when police reviewed that surveillance video from the apartment complex, they spot that Malibu, leaving the garage at the same time as

the charger, which was eventually found abandoned about a mile from the apartment. Inside the car, they apparently find the large purse that Vega was carrying in the surveillance footage as well as blood. They also find a plastic grocery bag that had blood near its handles with a second grocery bag inside it. This is according to court filings that were reviewed by the Arizona Republic. Investigators apparently found a fingerprint on the plastic and put it into the national database. But it would be a year before a matching print was added to the system after an alleged crime out in Tennessee. That is how police identified since Sarah Hayes. Jared Gray's fingerprint was reportedly found on the bottom of a plastic cup inside the Malibu.

This is according to the Arizona Republic. He's currently dealing with a court case out in Georgia. He's expected to be extradited to Arizona to face charges as well. But police believe that the third suspect, Kudjo Young, helped organize this entire hit on Mercedes. And what could possibly be the motive behind such depraved alleged actions? Turns out, Mercedes was set to testify against Young in an armed robbery case. so police believe he wanted to get rid of her. Between 2019 and 2020, at least three dancers from Phoenix's La Girls Club, including Mercedes,

were targeted in armed robberies. In November 2019, one dancer told police she was robbed at gunpoint in her Scottsdale condo parking lot by a masked man. She believed that she'd been followed home from the club, says she was never told if detectives actually pulled up the security footage. Then in November 2020, another dancer says she was approached by a masked man with a gun in her garage. He reportedly ran off when another car pulled in.

And authorities believe that Mercedes was robbed by Young in 2020. When Mercedes spoke with one of the other dancers who asked her to describe her attacker, the other woman agreed it sounded like the same man. This is according to NBC News. Now, Mercedes family says that she picked him out of a lineup, had written a victim impact statement for his trial. She was reportedly set to testify against him the day that she was found murdered. And Young was charged in 2021 for armed robbery with a deadly one.

weapon. This is according to Maricopa County Court records. All right. So to talk about the evidence against these three men, as well as what changes now that the prosecution has announced its intent to seek the death penalty against two of them. I want to welcome back on criminal defense attorney, former prosecutor, Kurt Altman. Kurt, thanks so much for taking the time. It's good to see you. Hey, you bet, Jesse. Thanks for having me. First, have you ever dealt with a case that involved such horrifying violence? I talked about it before, but to think about what she went through, is unimaginable. It is unimaginable. This level of depravity. Have you ever dealt with something like this? You know, I'm sorry to say, Jesse, I have on a few occasions. I've had cases that

are just beyond human imagination, which this one is. I could not imagine how heinous a death that was when you're alive inside of a car that's burning that you can't get out of. But unfortunately, you see these now and then, and this is just horrific. Are you surprised that you have the prosecution now going the death penalty route? No, I'm not surprised at all. First of all, the death penalty capital punishment in Arizona, it's on the books. So when it's appropriate and through discretion of the prosecutor, when they believe it's appropriate, I think they should seek the death penalty. Whether you believe in it or not, that's what the law says. And this case is no surprise at all. Way back when courts, judges used to decide whether it's a death case or not

in Arizona. I had a judge tell me one time, if you have to wonder, if it's a death case or not, it's not. I don't think many people are wondering about this one. They're filing a notice of intent to seek the death penalty. Can that delay the case? Because then it's two stages, right? It's the guilt phase. It's the trial phase. And then it's the penalty phase. So now it makes the trial longer. And I would imagine in terms of jury selection and experts, does this now make the potential trial date, does it delay it? 100%. It's going to substantially delay the case. The defense in something like this, once that notice of intent is filed, has an opportunity to start to do not only investigation

to defend the case, but also a whole separate mitigation type investigation where they're allowed to get experts, they're allowed to dig into the past history of their clients, and it takes quite some time for them to be able to effectively put together what they believe could be mitigation. So the courts are going to give them a lot of leeway. This is going to substantially slow down the resolution of the case. And I want to talk more about the evidence than investigators say they have against these defendants because I think it's really substantial and really important. So the criminal complaints that were reviewed according to the Arizona Republic indicate that police were able to get their hands on travel information, that we're talking about purchases for plane

tickets for Hayes and Gray to fly out to Arizona from Tennessee, where all the suspects are originally from. It is believed that the credit card information connects back to young. In fact, during an interview, Hayes reportedly told police that he, quote, had business with another person out west, but wouldn't say who? When investigators apparently spoke with Gray, he told them allegedly that he never traveled to Arizona, that he didn't know Younger Hayes. Kurt, as we go through this, how damning is that kind of digital trail, that paper trail? And how would you defend against it. Well, I mean, welcome to the 21st century, right? Everything is digital now. You can do very little without some digital record of it out there that that law enforcement can

find. So it's very damning evidence. I mean, it's often better evidence, probably better evidence in this case than eyewitness or cooperator type testimony because it's irrefutable, where these cards were used, where they traveled, what plane they got on, and things like that. So damning, very damning. How do you defend against it? Man, that's a tough one because you can't really beat the digital trail. You just have to find another explanation for it. And maybe there is one. They're still presumed innocent, but it's difficult. I mean, social media, digital evidence, credit cards, travel records, they are hard, hard to confront as a defense lawyer. And if Young was so dead set on getting rid of Mercedes, right, as prosecutors alleged, the question becomes why. And he just

do it himself, right? Here's something to know. Turns out he was out on Bond at this time. It was wearing a GPS ankle monitor. So authorities would have been able to track him. Again, assuming alleging that he did all this and was instrumental in all this, that's something to consider. The problem for him is the cell phones. Cell phones can be tracked too. So the cell phone location data, the evidence is likely going to be critical in this case. Why? Because according to court records, according to authorities, the plane tickets were connected back to a cell phone number. Police were able to track it showed that the phone was following the path that the Malibu took on the day that Vega died and was in the area where her body was found.

Maricopa County investigators also reportedly talked to a man whose cell phone location was near the scene of the burning car. And get this? He apparently tells authorities that Young called him to go, quote, pick up a package. Turned out two men, likely Hayes and Gray. The court paperwork indicates that the man told detectives he was given the location as well as a car, picked up two men, drove them back to the Phoenix area. Phones belonging to that man and Hayes both apparently or allegedly show them on I-10 in the hours after Vegas death.

And police were also going to confirm that the phone number connected to the plane ticket purchase was the same number, or allegedly the same number, that called this unidentified man at around 2 a.m. Now, there's no word on whether this man who allegedly gave Hayes and Gray O'Ride is going to face any kind of charges. I mean, my gosh, I mean, what stands out to you about that he's now got to be a huge witness for the government? Oh, for sure, right? I mean, again, we go back to digital trails from credit cards to social media to cell phones. Those cell phones ping off towers. Law enforcement and technology today can almost pinpoint within 100 some 200 yards where that phone is at any given time.

So it's important for this witness, this unidentified witness to testify, going to be very important, Because people can say, hey, I didn't have my phone. Someone else had my phone. This is why it was here. But this person certainly is going to be a key kind of bridge that brings everything and all this digital evidence together and puts the suspects where police and prosecutors say they are. It's going to be, again, a very difficult thing to defend just because of the digital evidence that's hard to dispute. Of course. But, you know, from a defense perspective, if he takes the stand, defense attorneys will say, you know, you're cooperating with the government.

you claim you were a part of this? Why should we trust you? Are you really credible? Prosecution can't cherry pick their witnesses. They're given who they're given. And I do wonder if there's going to be something along the lines of like he didn't know what was going on. He was just told to do this. He didn't really know the circumstances of it. But is he going to be a problematic potential witness at a trial? Well, sure. I mean, at least it gives a defense some sort of chance, right? A cross-examination of somebody like this. Because from what I've read and from what you just indicated here, there's probably some significant evidence that ties this witness to the crime

that allows this witness or could allow this witness to be charged with some sort of crime in this homicide. And whether this person is charged or whether they're given a pre-trial sort of deal, they're getting the break. They're probably going to get a break to testify. And every time somebody gets a break to testify, that gives an incentive to be untruthful because they're going to protect themselves. And that gives the defense an opening. So the cross-examination and the analysis of this witness's testimony is going to be critical for the defense. And as a defense lawyer, this is where I'm going to try to hone in. You know, maybe this person did it and my client didn't. Maybe this person is covering up what they did to get a deal and throw our clients under the bus.

This is where you're going to focus your energy, a lot of your energy, in a defense of a case like this, as a defense lawyer. Now, authorities believe that Hayes and Gray took a Greyhound bus together back to Chattanooga, Tennessee. Officers flew there to arrest Hayes in November of 2024. He was extradited back to Arizona, charged with, we believe, premeditated first-degree murder, kidnapping, arson, armed robbery, theft, hindering prosecution. Young, whose armed robbery case is supposed to go to trial next year, was apparently charged with the same thing as Hayes in connection with Vega's death. Both of them could get the death penalty if convicted. And as I mentioned, Gray is dealing with a separate case. He's expected to be extradited back to Arizona,

charged with murder. Is that complicated, though, Kurt, in terms of extradition? Are there circumstances? where one jurisdiction's case would take precedent over another? You think it's going to be complicated here to get them back? I mean, certainly it could be complicated. Most of the time, authorities try to work out a deal, so it's not complicated. He's got charges, I think you said, Georgia, right? Authorities hopefully will be working together saying, hey, this is a capital case here.

This is a homicide case here in Arizona. Can we take priority? And the two states and the authorities and the two states will work together to get him back. Sometimes there's a struggle, Jesse. Sometimes Georgia might say, listen, it's more important for us to get justice here in this state for our victims, our people, whatever that crime may be, before we turn them over. So, depending on what they can work out, there's a real possibility that he stays in Georgia until that case is over. I have a feeling authorities will do their best to cooperate and get him out here so this case can get moving because of the nature of it. Now, something interesting I want to talk about as well is that Mercedes was ready to testify against Young in that armed robbery case and had reportedly picked him out of a lineup.

The prosecution filed motions in Young and Hayes case is stating the state of Arizona by and through undersigned counsel hereby moves to admit statements of Mercedes Vega that were previously precluded due to forfeiture of wrongdoing on behalf of the defendants. Now, Kurt, doesn't that mean that her statements, which were otherwise hearsay, right? They were otherwise going to be hearsay. They could come in against these defendants because it's the defendant's fault that she can't testify. Am I understanding that correctly? And what do you think those statements are? I mean, that's exactly right. That's what the prosecution is asking. They're like, normally, under the rules of evidence, she would be the person who would have to testify to whatever these statements are that she probably gave to law enforcement. Probably about the armed robbery. Right, right. Now, the defendant in the armed robbery, which my understanding is young, the prosecution saying, hey, the rules of evidence don't allow him to benefit and lose, not have these statements come out against.

him because of something that he instigated to make that witness unavailable. They're basically saying she's unavailable because of the defendant's actions. Therefore, her statements are no longer hearsay and can come in. But isn't that, I mean, he wasn't convicted of that yet, right? I mean, that's the allegations that he's responsible for her death and no longer being available. But under the rules of evidence, you can just be accused of it. And that's enough for a rationale for those statements to come in.

Well, that's something that the court's going to have to decide. side. That's why the state filed the motion saying, hey, this is the evidence we have. It'll be interesting because in the armed robbery case, in order to get those statements in, they'll probably be pretrial hearings where a lot of the homicide evidence will have to be presented because they have to kind of show beyond a certain, probably a preponderance of the evidence at that point that Young was involved in this disappearance or the unavailability of the witness. So it'll be interesting. We'll hear a lot about the homicide during those pretrial hearings. in the armed robbery case.

So I want to, you mentioned the state's motion. Actually, I want to take a look at the state's motion to seek the death penalty because the filing says if the defendants are found guilty of murder, they will have committed the offense, quote, in an especially heinous, cruel, or depraved manner. So the document reads, victim M. Vega consciously suffered physical or mental pain, distress, or anguish prior to death. And the defendant knew or should have known that victim M. Vega would suffer.

And when it comes to Young, prosecutors allege that he ordered this hit on Mercedes while he was awaiting trial for other offenses, you know, attempt to commit armed robbery. And the motion says the defendant committed the offense to prevent victim M. Vega's cooperation with an official law enforcement investigation to prevent her testimony in a court proceeding or in retaliation for her cooperation with an official law enforcement investigation. And the finally indicates that if the case does make it to the penalty phase, the state will call in at least one medical examiner to testify about Mercedes. his physical pain and suffering. So, Kurt, let's be clear about this. Under the law, prosecutors can't just say, we're seeking the death penalty because we want to. They have to actually be justified under specific criteria, specific factors that would warrant the death penalty. If you're talking a particularly egregious crime, where the victims suffer tremendously or because they were a witness. Those are the aggravating factors, right?

Correct. There's a statute in Arizona that says, if you get to the penalty phase in a case like this, the prosecution must prove aggravating factors beyond a reasonable doubt, just like the guilt phase to a jury or a jury must find beyond a reasonable doubt these aggravating factors in order to impose the death penalty. And they are specifically listed. They're enumerated in the statute what those aggravating factors can be. And one of them is cruel, heinous, and depraved manner of death. And the other one, there's another one that says the homicide was committed to quiet a cooperator, right? Which is what the allegations are here. So what the state will do if they get to the penalty phase is they'll bring in a medical examiner or some other medical expert that'll

talk about the autopsy that said, hey, she had smoke inhalation, which means while that car was burning, she was breathing. You can't breathe if you're not still alive. And then they will describe what it's like in some manner to die from smoke inhalation and all these other injuries, maybe estimate how long it might have taken and what she went through. And the jury will hear that evidence and then have to decide if that was a heinous manner of death. And by the way, to try to figure that out, how exactly is a medical examiner going to know what she went through? Well, their testimony is going to be from their experience and their training. First of all, they're going to say, beyond a medical certainty, she was alive while that car was burning.

know that because there was smoke in her lungs. They'll say something along those lines. And then I'm sure the prosecutor, if I were the prosecutor, I'd ask, well, can you describe, do you have any experience to be able to describe to the jury what it's like to die from smoke inhalation and based on research and their experience? The medical examiner will probably have some testimony as to that. It's opinion testimony, but it's based on their medical training. Well, not even, I mean, they can describe what happens to the body in explicit detail. And when a jury hears that, right, they're going to hear the, first of all, the pain from getting shot, beaten, bleach thrown in your throat, and then being burned and grasping for oxygen, you know, in a medical diagnosis, in a medical explanation, you know, it's going to be hard, I think, in death penalty cases, particularly one like this, for the jury not to be. persuaded not to be overcome with emotion and have that be a decision. Have that be a factor

that, you know, factors into their decision. Yeah, I think that's right. If the evidence comes in in this case, as we're hearing it today, this is awful. I have forgotten about the bleach. And of course, a medical examiner can tell a jury exactly what bleach in someone's throat or bleach on someone's skin, what it does to the skin and how long it takes and how that works. so they're going to hear graphic horrific details certainly it's up to them whether they believe it or not what that proof is but they're going to hear it and it's going to be brutal so for now hayes and young are set to go to trial in may of 2026 uh kurt thank you so much for coming on really really appreciate your perspective and your analysis on this thank you so much thank you jesse any time okay so now i want

to welcome back on two special guests mercedes parents tom and erika pilsberry thank you both so much for coming on. It's great to see you again. Very festive in the background. But I can imagine that the holidays are a difficult time. Yeah, that's the Mercedes Christmas tree behind Tom there. That was her tree? That's her tree from her house. Wow. Beautiful. It's beautiful. Yeah. How are you guys doing? How are you holding up? Again, I know this is probably a very difficult time of the year. But how are you both doing right now? It's hard. It is a hard time a year. And every day is hard. It's hard to hang up or stalking. It's hard to know she wasn't here for Thanksgiving and on the days that we know that she would normally be here. Her presence

is missed for sure. Yeah, this is the time. of the year that we know i mean i would see her periodically through the months like if she needed something or she wanted me to fix her car whatever but i knew for a fact that she was coming here for christmas or thanksgiving so it is very very hard to know that she's not going to walk through that door and she loved christmas was a yes yes she was a very um we're christmas people and we kind of instilled that on her so she loved christmas at the same time and when she was little one thing that me and her used to do and i still do to this day was we would watch christmas movies over and over and over again so i still watch him and think of her why i'm

watching him that's so nice i mean i have to tell you your decorations um are amazing um i can feel um it's really it's i have to tell you it's very impressive to say the least but um i'm glad mercedes tree is there um one of the reasons we obviously wanted to talk to you not only to revisit the case and see what you're doing. Big development this week. This decision to move forward with the death penalty against two of these defendants. How are you feeling about that? And is this something that you both were advocating for since the beginning? Yeah. I wanted Cujo, sincere and Jared to know that we would never stop. that they needed to understand that and that any life I have left in me and any breath I have left, I will continue to advocate for Mercedes, and I will ensure that every lawful consequence that they could possibly endure, they will face.

they chose to make this decision and I think that the consequences should be brought down upon them without mercy without hesitation and we won't rest until every person who is responsible for taking her away from us

is held accountable it's something we've been fighting for um it's very hard to be happy about this because you have mixed emotions you're happy and sad and you're angry and you're frustrated um i don't want someone i'm not happy that someone could die and that's not what i want but what they did to our child it fits what they did to our child um i'm not an advocate of saying oh well this or an eye for an But, I mean, ultimately, my daughter didn't do anything wrong. This is over a cell phone and $1,000. They had no caring of life.

People flying here that didn't know her. Like Erica said, it fits what they did. I mean, they didn't just, they could have just simple thing, but they ended up torturing our child. They don't have any care for life. So I don't have any reservations about that. I'm glad that the state has finally got. to that point because kujo is the main person in this whole thing he is the reason we're sitting here um the other people just followed along um and for the state to agree that he deserves

is a very it's very good for us and it it kind of helps us that we're now going on that path that we know is going to be a long path they didn't just take her life they destroyed all of our lives yes yeah no a hundred percent he has a prosecution um communicated to you what to expect next. I was talking about this before, that when it becomes a death penalty case, a trial day can be delayed. There's a lot that has to be prepared. You now divide the trial into two phases. Has the prosecutor's given you an idea about what to expect, what the timeline's going to be, what this case is going to look like? We know it's going to take a long time, but this isn't something that fades with time.

Yeah, they've made it clear that this could be a couple of years. It's not something that, you know, you're going to have delays and you're going to have this and you're going to have that. Because when they asked us if this is something we wanted, they made that clear. If you decide to go this route, this is what could end up happening. It could take three, four, five years. You never know with the system. And we understood that from day one. And it's not something that we're ever going to walk away from.

No. I mean, it's going to, we're going to make sure it follows them. and everything that they did and everything every time we go to court every time they face a new consequence or something new comes to

light we want the world to know what these monsters did because they deserve it the world deserves to know what these monsters are capable of doing especially to an innocent

young beautiful woman who was doing absolutely nothing wrong um and we know it's going to take a long time we know the legal system takes a long time it's been five years and he's not been convicted of the burglary of holding her a gunpoint it's been over five years you know he kind of sits there like a little prince saying oh i'm not a convicted felon um but his horns are holding up his crown because he's got multiple felony charges, he's just not been convicted. And the grief doesn't go away. It's never going to change. We're always going to feel this pain. But their actions created these consequences

and it ruined so many people's lives. Let me ask you about that because when the death penalty is introduced into cases, in particular if you have multiple defendants, what you tend to see a lot of times is plea deal is being worked out. You'll have defense attorneys who say, listen, if you agree to take the death penalty off the table, my client will plead guilty, life in prison. If that becomes a situation here for any of those defendants, would that be something you would be open to? It would take a lot for, I know I'm speaking for myself, but I kind of, I would want to know everything. I'm not just going to agree to it. I want to know, I would want to know who else is involved

why they did this and we need to know we're not just going to say yeah okay yes there's questions that I want to answer yes there's questions did you stand there and watch her burn

did you did she scream did she say anything but we can't trust anything that they say these aren't honest people so ultimately no

I don't want them to say oh yeah we did it I'll go ahead and plead guilty that doesn't help us and that doesn't help the public because then people aren't going to know exactly

what these monsters were capable of doing and I believe the public needs to understand what kind of monsters there are out there that are doing these horrific things and if I feel like that's a cop-out

And I would prefer not to accept that. It would take a lot unless there was some way that they could prove that what they were saying was true or it was proven with other evidence. I mean, we have a life sentence of grief no matter what. And them having a life sentence seems, especially without. the world knowing what they've done and what they were capable of it seems unfair and almost unjust well unjust but also reckless because people don't people need to know what these monsters are capable of doing and i know that there's other cases out there that uh they you know oh well we went ahead and gave them a life sentence and there's parents

out there going, wait a minute, what happened to my kid? What did she go through? What tortured did she or he endure? And it's never said and it's never stated and it's just wiped away like it never happened, but I want, people

should know what these monsters are capable of doing. Yeah, just answer questions basically and I don't see that happening and Erica kind of hit on it. I don't believe what they're going to say is true anyway. I think it's a cop out, I think it's a cop out just to, you know, now that they know that they're going in this direction, you know, we don't have a say whether, you know, if they can pull it off or not, we can give our opinion, but ultimately the state has to decide that if that is valuable. The one, if it, what came down to us, we would want things answered because we don't have a lot of answers. Where was she for two hours? What did you do to my daughter for two hours before you, and she ended up on I-10? We still, to this day,

don't know what happened to her or what she went through for two hours she was missing. And look, you make the point, and accurately so, you don't know if they'd be even telling the truth if they were to admit to it. And I hope that the state will take into your considerations, whatever decisions made. And to be clear, there's no, it's not like there's been an offer of a plea deal yet or some, there's been a suggestion of it. But again, this is something we see. I do have to ask, you know, if this does go to trial, as you can imagine, and particularly now if it's a death penalty case, and we read the court paperwork where one of the factors

to prove that this is a case that warrants the death penalty is they would have to show just how heinous and cruel this is and what Mercedes went through. This is going to be a brutal case. Are you planning to be there? Are you planning to listening to all this? I can't imagine what it's like to hear these details, but are you prepared to hear all of that?

I want the truth exposed. I want everything that they did exposed so we ensure that every lawful consequence will come down upon them. I know it's going to be difficult. I know it's going to be painful. But I also know that we will know beforehand, before we face it in court,

that Maricopa County will make sure that we know the facts before it's shown, whether it's body camera footage or whatever it might happen to be, and they're going to be hard, and they're going to be awful, and they're going to be so painful to watch. But I want these people who are responsible to, I want it to be shown what they've done. I want to know why. I want to know what happened to my little girl. I want to know if she fought. I want to know if she screamed.

I want to know if she cried. I want to know if she bit them. I want to know because she's my baby. And I want to know what she endured. Because I have to carry with me every day this grief that she's gone. I want to know the facts that. of what she was put through and I want the world to know

what they did to her it will not be easy and I know that but it's not easy now it's not easy at all live in grief every single day missing her and right now in my mind I picture the worst

and I don't necessarily want to see it on body camera but I do want to know I want to hear it and I want to be told and I want the world to know because I think it's important that um they face every single thing that they did and every any consequence and any reaction I feel the world needs to know I struggle with this um like when we got the the paperwork from the state i i don't i didn't want to read it i don't want to know what my daughter went through but i know that um we're her voice and she went through it so i have to stand up and i have to stand up for her um the one erika kind of touched on it we'll know prior to what's

being said but i'm not going to i'm not going to be a victim but basically what it is you're not going to scare me away because of something you did i make big i get to choose if I want to be and sit there and listen to it. So I have a choice. And I'm going to choose the choice to be there. Maybe I step out when they show graphic photos or something on those lines. Because I don't want to see that. I don't want to remember.

I already have terrible memories now of what happened. That's just going to intensify it. But we know by the time we get to that point, we'll know more and we'll have realized, okay, this is what's going to happen and we're going to hear this and we're going to see this. Is it something we can handle? If we decide, we'll step out. If we can handle it, we'll sit in the courtroom. But we're not going to let them think that we're victims and we're going to shy away from hearing things that we need to hear.

And it may be that we're not watching what they're showing and we've already heard it and we already are aware of it. But I want these killers to know that we're there and we're looking at them. And I want to watch them react to what they did. and I want to watch the jury react to what they did. Yes. Tom, Erica, you are both incredibly strong. The level of respect I have for both of you, I can't even describe. I really appreciate you both not only coming on to talk about this, this development, which is not easy,

to talk about this case, which is not easy, and to talk about everything that's going on in the holiday season. I just really, really appreciate you both, sharing this information, sharing what you're going through. We are obviously going to keep following this case and see where it progresses. Always have an open door to come back here and talk about it. But again, I just want to just say, I'm so sorry for your loss. I'm so sorry for this journey that you have to go on, but I'm just wishing both of you nothing but the best, and particularly in this holiday season. So Tom and Erica, thank you so much. Thank you. We appreciate everything.

do in keeping anyone that keeps our daughter's name going. Because Erica's made it, she's not fading away as a number or a statistic. And that's what we want. We're not looking to gain anything out of this. We just want people to know what our daughter went through. And this probably happens a lot that we don't know of because we've been sheltered from it. And we just thank everybody for everything that they're doing to make sure she's not forgotten. You got it. You got it. Of course. Yep. We're going to stay on top of it. This is like it was interesting when you said, you know, the trial will be a moment to get more details so people can know what they did. One of the thing, or what they allegedly did, I will tell you this much. This is why we've been focusing so much on this story. We've been kind of hit every single detail of it because this is a tragic but important story to tell and we are going to stay on top of it as much as we can. So Tom and Erica, thank you so much. Really appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. And that's all we have for you right now here on Sidebar.

Everybody, thank you so much for joining us. And as always, please subscribe on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you should get your podcast. You follow me on X or Instagram. I'm Jesse Weber. I'll speak to you next time. Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.