Law&Crime Sidebar - Med Spa Owner Hit with Murder Charge for Fatal IV Drip: Police

Episode Date: May 1, 2026

A day at The Luxe Medspa by Amber Johnson in Texas turned deadly for 47-year-old Jenifer Cleveland after an IV infusion. Now, Johnson and medical director Dr. Michael Gallagher face a combine...d 39 criminal charges, including murder. Law&Crime's Jesse Weber and trial attorney Alea Roberts dig into the allegedly dangerous practices happening at at the buysiness and the years it took to bring these charges forward.PLEASE SUPPORT THE SHOW: Download the FREE Upside App at https://upside.app.link/sidebar to get an extra 25 cents bonus for every gallon on your first tank of gas.HOST:Jesse Weber: https://twitter.com/jessecordweberLAW&CRIME SIDEBAR PRODUCTION:YouTube Management - Bobby SzokeVideo Editing - Michael Deininger, Christina O'Shea, Alex Ciccarone, & Jay CruzScript Writing & Producing - Savannah Williamson & Juliana BattagliaGuest Booking - Alyssa Fisher & Diane KayeSocial Media Management - Vanessa BeinSTAY UP-TO-DATE WITH THE LAW&CRIME NETWORK:Watch Law&Crime Network on YouTubeTV: https://bit.ly/3td2e3yWhere To Watch Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3akxLK5Sign Up For Law&Crime's Daily Newsletter: https://bit.ly/LawandCrimeNewsletterRead Fascinating Articles From Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3td2IqoLAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandcrimeTwitter: https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetworkFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawandcrimeTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lawandcrimenetworkTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lawandcrimeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Starting point is 00:00:00 The former owner of a Texas med spa and the business's medical director are both facing murder charges after a woman went in for an IV infusion and didn't make it out alive. We are digging into the allegedly dangerous practices going on behind closed doors and why it took years for authorities to bring charges. Welcome to Sidebar. Presented by Law and Crime. I'm Jesse Weber. All right, before we go any further, I got to tell you about our partner, our sponsor. app called Upside. Upside gets you extra cash back. Yes, extra cash back on everyday purchases like gas, groceries, takeout. Here's what you do. You download Upside for free. You claim an offer
Starting point is 00:00:40 at one of the 100,000 plus locations. You pay like normal with your card. You verify the purchase and just like that, money back. So say I need to get gas or I want take out one night. I'll search for Upside offers first. And after I spend, money appears my app that I can transfer it right into my bank account. Oh, and by the way, Upside's frequent users earn an average of $254 back a year. So to start getting your cash back, click the link in the digital. description or scan the QR code, use promo code sidebar to get an extra 25 cents bonus on every gallon on your first tank of gas. In July of 2023, 47 year old Jennifer Cleveland was looking forward to a day at the spa. Mama four who worked for a local Texas radio station posted on her Facebook
Starting point is 00:01:17 page, quote, the Lux Med Spa by Amber Johnson will definitely make you look and feel beautiful. But just one day later, Jennifer would be dead. This is after she lost consciousness inside that spa and was pronounced dead at the hospital. And since then, multiple investigations have been launched, and there is even a new law on the Texas books named for Jennifer in an effort to make med spas in the state, hopefully safer. We're going to talk about that. Now, we know that the business's owner, Amber Johnson, and the spa's medical director, Dr. Michael Gallagher, are facing a combined 39 charges. This is according to newly filed indictments. They both turned themselves into Freestone County, Texas authorities this week. They bonded out. This is per
Starting point is 00:02:01 reporting from outlet KWTX. But how did we get here? Right. What happened to Jennifer inside that med spa? And why are two different people facing such serious charges? Criminal allegations. I want to get into it. There's also a civil component that we're going to get into too. Now, an attorney for Johnson, David E. Moore confirmed to KWTX that Jennifer did go to Lux Med Spa on July 10th, where Johnson started an IV treatment for her. Moore told the news outlet that Jennifer had signed consent forms indicating she wasn't on any medications, didn't have any chronic medical conditions,
Starting point is 00:02:37 and wasn't under the care of a physician at the time. Around 20 minutes later, after her treatment started, according to Moore, Jennifer told Johnson she didn't feel well. So Johnson allegedly had her sit up, take deep breaths, but Jennifer lost consciousness. Now, Moore says that Johnson started CPR on Jennifer, and that is when she allegedly found a vape pen in her bra. We're going to get more into why that's important or possibly important in a second.
Starting point is 00:03:01 But Johnson was reportedly able to revive Jennifer momentarily. This is according to what Moore told KWTX, but then she went unresponsive. Johnson allegedly tried to call 911 twice from the phone at the spa's front counter, claimed the line was busy when unanswered. I wonder if there's phone records to maybe establish those calls. And she was eventually able to get through on her personal cell phone. Again, this is according to her attorney. EMS rushed Jennifer to the hospital, but police told KWTX, she died on the way.
Starting point is 00:03:32 Now, outlet KCEN TV reported on Jennifer's autopsy report, which apparently stated that Jennifer, quote, received an IV infusion containing vitamin B complex, asorbic acid, cyanobaliman, and TPN electrolytes. Now, synomobaliman is a form of B12. It's meant to treat vitamin deficiency. but according to the Texas Medical Board, TPN electrolyte solution needs to be prescribed by a doctor and is, quote, known to cause complications due to the potassium chloride in it.
Starting point is 00:04:03 Now, KWTX reports that Jennifer's final autopsy report listed her cause of death as, quote, sudden cardiac death of uncertain etiology. But the manner of death, which could be natural, accidental, suicide, homicide, was listed as unknown. So both of those are things that defense attorneys can work with. If there's something not definitive, does that leave room for reasonable doubt? The autopsy also reportedly stated, the administration of intravenous therapy cannot be definitely ruled in or ruled out as contributory at this time.
Starting point is 00:04:36 However, the IV bag was collected at the scene and the contents were tested and TPN electrolytes were apparently present. It was also alleged that Jennifer had been getting weekly infusions but didn't specify exactly what kind of infusions or for how long. This is according to KWTX. Here's the counter argument, right? Johnson, the spa's owner, apparently or reportedly, didn't have a medical license. The argument is wasn't supposed to be able to get or administer prescriptions. Officials allege she got around that by working with Dr. Michael Gallagher, a Texas anesthesiologist who was listed as the spa's medical director. And on the day that Jennifer died, according to her lawyer, Gallagher was actually more than 100 miles away at his own practice in Frisco, Texas. But Johnson was allegedly able to get the drugs using Gallagher's. credentials. And remember, I mentioned the vape that Johnson apparently found when she was trying to do CPR. So attorney Moore told KWTX that he, quote, requested the vape pen concealed in Miss Cleveland's bra be tested for controlled substances. The final autopsy report indicated sudden cardiac arrest death of uncertain ideology, as well as the post-mortem toxicology being significant
Starting point is 00:05:44 for tramidol and trazodone, neither of which were administered by Amber Johnson. So the Texas Attorney General's office took over the case. They apparently presented it to a grand jury and got these indictments that were returned against both Johnson and Gallagher in Freestone County. According to the indictment paperwork, the grand jury charged Johnson with 14 counts, felony murder, second-degree manslaughter, criminally negligent homicide, nine counts of delivery of a dangerous drug, practicing medicine without a license, and tampering with or fabricating physical evidence. Gallagher faces even more counts, according to his indictment. But many of the charges kind of mirror Johnson's felony murder, second-degree manslaughter, criminally negligent homicide, nine counts of delivery of a dangerous drug, practicing medicine without a license, practicing medicine in violation of Texas occupations code.
Starting point is 00:06:36 And the court paperwork also seems to show the math totaling up how much bond that should be set for each defendant, because according to multiple reports, Johnson turned herself in, posted a $69,000 bond. Gallagher bonded out on jail on a bond of $96,500. I want to dig a little bit more into the specifics of these alleged criminal violations. I think it's important. We're going to explore more with Leah Roberts in a minute. But it says, quote, Amber Johnson, on or about the 10th day of July, 2023, did then and
Starting point is 00:07:04 there commit or attempt to commit a felony, namely practicing medicine without a license, causing physical harm to another person or delivery of a dangerous drug or committed or attempted to commit an act clearly dangerous. to human life, namely administering TPN electrolytes to Jennifer Cleveland that caused the death of Jennifer Cleveland. felony murder is a little different, right? It's not saying you intended to cause the death of Jennifer, but you committed a felony. You intended to commit a felony. And as a result, someone died. Now, the manslaughter and the criminally negligent homicide counts, they're
Starting point is 00:07:35 worded very similarly. But again, you might be dealing with different kind of standards here, recklessness, negligence. Each of the delivery of a dangerous drug charges, they name a different medication that Johnson is accused of giving to Jennifer as part of this IV cocktail, noting that the various medications, quote, bears or is required to bear the legend RX only. And I want to highlight count 14, so the last count in Johnson's indictment tampering with or fabricating physical evidence, quote, the grand jury further presents that Amber Johnson honor about the 7th day of May 2025, knowing that an investigation or official proceeding was pending or in progress, namely investigation into the death of Jennifer Cleveland, make or present or use a record or document,
Starting point is 00:08:17 namely a record or document containing the following additional notes, and add on TPN Electrolites, 10ML, and dated June 10, 23, with knowledge of its falsity and with intent to affect the course or outcome of the investigation or official proceeding. That's quite the allegation. Now, we looked up the case that was referenced here, Cleveland at all versus McKesson at all. So Jennifer's surviving family apparently sued McKesson Medical Surgical. This is a company that helps distribute meds and supplies like TPN Electrolites. There are other named defendants here, Dr. Gallagher, the Lux Med Spa, Amber Johnson herself. And the plaintiff's original petition that was filed in January 2025 kind of gives us some more information about Lux Med Spa. Quote, per the petition,
Starting point is 00:09:05 Defendant Amber Johnson upon information and belief is a former teacher's aide who, in or around the spring of 2023, had the idea to open a medical spa. Undeterred by her lack of medical education, medical training, licensure, or even by the fact that non-physicians cannot be the majority owner of such establishments. Johnson secured a lease in Wortham, Texas. She formed the Lux Med Spa by Amber Johnson LLC on April 12, 2023 and held a grand opening the following month. By the way, these are just the allegations, but it continues. Under Texas law, physician must be the majority owner of a medical spa, and the spa must be formed as a professional organization, such as a PA, professional association, PLLC, professional liability company, or PC professional corporation. When Johnson formed the LuxMed Spa was formed as an LLC, limited liability company, and she was identified as the sole owner. Now, the brief also provides more alleged information about Gallagher's supposed connection to the business.
Starting point is 00:10:04 Quote, through a mutual friend, Johnson approached Dr. Michael Gallagher about serving as the medical director of the Lux Med Spa. Defended Dr. Gallagher purportedly agreed to act as medical director, though he never signed the medical director agreement with the Lux Med Spa and worked and resided more than 100 miles from Worthing, Texas. Now, according to this complaint, Gallagher only visited the actual spa. location three times. And that's where McKesson comes in. Quote, when defendant Amber Johnson opened the Lux Med Spa, she and Dr. Gallagher approached McKesson to establish an online portal through which Johnson, a person with no medical education or training, could order dangerous prescription medications to be shipped directly to the Lux Med Spa. Now, the next part of the complaint gets a little bit in the weeds, but it is important to understand the type
Starting point is 00:10:52 of medication that Johnson was apparently dealing with, despite, again, the allegation that she had no medical experience. Quote, utilizing the McKesson ordering portal, defendant Amber Johnson, ordered total parental nutrition electrolytes, TPN electrolytes, to be shipped directly to the Lux MedSpot. TPN electrolytes are intended to be infused with total parental nutrition supplements, also referred to as IV feeding, to provide nutrition to patients who cannot consume food and nutrition orally. In fact, the Pfizer package insert accompanying the TPN electrolytes distributed by Mekesson instructed that TPN electrolytes must be diluted in TPN solution prior to administration. TPN electrolytes are not intended to be included in an IV cocktail.
Starting point is 00:11:38 Quote, to ensure patient safety, IV feeding infusions, particularly when electrolytes are added, should be administered in a highly monitored inpatient setting where emergency resuscitation equipment and trained personnel are available. The Lux Med Spa was not a health care facility, did not employ trained health care providers, and did not have emergency resuscitation equipped. The petition continues, quote, Ms. Johnson's lawyer indicated that Jennifer lost consciousness collapsed to the ground and had no pulse.
Starting point is 00:12:05 When the IV bag was later found, it was empty, reflecting that the electrolytes intended to be infused in TPN solution over 8 to 12 hours were infused by Amber Johnson into Jennifer Cleveland in less than 30 minutes. And the lawsuit alleges that McKesson created a system that made it so easy to ship dangerous drugs. One of the claims being, death is a foreseeable consequence of shipping TPN electrolytes to a medical spa. Even the Texas
Starting point is 00:12:29 Medical Board, which investigated Jennifer's death, concluded that TPN electrolytes have no known use or medical indication in a medical spa setting. So all the parties are being sued individually for negligence. The plaintiffs also filed a health care liability claim. The family is seeking a million dollars or more in damages, quote, as a direct and proximate result of the negligence of the Lux Med Spa, as mentioned herein, Jennifer Cleveland died, and the plaintiffs in their individual and representative capacities experienced and continue to experience the emotional loss of a wife and mother, her love, comfort, and society, and her financial support. McKesson, by the way, tried to have this lawsuit dismissed, but didn't work, a judge denied it.
Starting point is 00:13:08 According to the court docket, the case is ongoing. It's set for a jury trial this fall. Getting back to the current criminal case, I mentioned that Dr. Gallagher's charges mirror Johnson's, but he's also facing charges for allegedly allowing Johnson to use his medical license. He's also accused of aiding and abetting her. For example, here's how Count 19 reads, quote, the grand jury further presents that Michael Gallagher, on or about the 10th day of July, 2023, did then and their practice medicine in violation of the Texas occupations code
Starting point is 00:13:35 by directly or indirectly aiding or abetting the practice of medicine by a person, namely Amber Johnson, who is not licensed to practice medicine by the Texas Medical Board. And after Jennifer's death, the disciplinary panel of the Texas Medical Board ordered a temporary suspension of Gallagher's medical license, saying his actions posed a threat to the safety of the people of Texas. Now, his license was reinstated.
Starting point is 00:14:00 There were strict conditions put in. According to the Texas Medical Board website, he's not allowed to supervise and delegate, quote, prescriptive authority to people like physicians, assistants, or nurses, and he had to undergo monitoring and take part in a class on medical supervision. The spa, by the way, has since closed. I do want to let you know there is some good news that came out. out of this tragedy. I mean, it's hard to find something out of that. But Jennifer's law went into effect in September 2025. It requires all IV treatments in the state in Texas to be administered by a
Starting point is 00:14:34 licensed professional. The advocacy groups and lawmakers behind the bill hope that it will make IV therapy centers around the state safer. But look, Gallagher Johnson, they could be facing decades in prison if they're found guilty on these charges. And I want to understand a little bit more about the criminal case, about the civil case, about how it might tie in together. Let's get into it. Okay, so I want to talk about this a little bit more, and I want to bring on a Leah Roberts, who's a trial attorney that specializes in all these different kinds of lawsuits. I am curious, though, this is a different kind of case, right? I mean, do you see actions like this both from maybe from a civil point of view, but from a criminal point of view to have you seen something like
Starting point is 00:15:14 this? Thanks for having me, Jesse. As you said, I've normally seen it in the, the civil litigation standpoint, but I've rarely seen it in the criminal standpoint. I was very interested to see, to read the differences of the complaints. I'm also interested to see that they actually charged both the defendants with murder. Felony murder. Interesting. Felony murder. Right. So it's not like, it's not like intentional, like they intended to kill Jennifer, but it's the
Starting point is 00:15:38 idea of you intentionally were committing a felony, right? The idea of administering this when you weren't supposed to and she died. Is that unusual to you? I think under the circumstances, it's not. And also, as we know, sometimes the prosecution will want to send a message, right? And I think this is the best way to do it. This is criminal behavior. We can charge it under the criminal statute under the Texas Penal Code.
Starting point is 00:15:58 Therefore, we should to, you know, prohibit other individuals who might be thinking about doing this behavior, who otherwise are engaging in this behavior. Put it down, stop what you're doing, and, you know, get out of Dodge because you can be charged criminally. What would a jury need to consider? What kind of evidence would need to be presented if you're talking felony murder or manslaughter or criminally negligent? homicide. Right. So number one, we have to look at the intent, right? We have to look at the men's
Starting point is 00:16:24 rea element. Of course, we don't have to argue intent under the manslaughter because we have the felony, right? We have the intent to practice medicine without a license, right? The intent to administer medication without being a licensed medical practitioner. So that point, all that the jury will need to know is that these individuals are not doctors, they're not nurses, they're not LPN's licensed nurse practitioners. They have no medical background other than they're essentially. or maybe something in the spa realm. And once you have that felony aspect, once you have that aspect together and someone passed away, right, as a result of this, there's a victim, and the victim is longer alive. So I think providing that evidence that they do not have the medical
Starting point is 00:17:03 background necessary, also showing with the behavior that they engaged in, then caused the death of this individual, that is really what the jury will need to know. And recklessness and negligence are a bit different. But if you're making the allegations that you were doing something, you did not have the authority to do that is quite dangerous. I think you might be able to fill those checkmarks. For sure. I think it's a little different, right? Because obviously, like you said, recklessness and negligence are different. I think it was smart to charge for both. Because if you say, oh, there was no disregard because if I'm, you know, these individuals, if I'm the defendant, I'm saying I've engaged in this therapy many times, no one's passed away. And I think they said
Starting point is 00:17:41 that there was a vape on the individuals in her bra when they were giving her CPR. So they're going to try to say that, oh, well, the vaping had to be. something to do with it. But at the end of the day, if I am the defense, I'm going to say I've given this therapy many, many times. And as a result, no one has ever passed away. So that's why they might get away with recklessness, but there's still negligence because despite the fact that you've done it many times, all it takes is one time. And as we see right now, there was a loss of life. So yeah, basically, I mean, yeah, that vapeen is really interesting. And to be clear, right, they're innocent and so proven guilty. There still needs to be a presentation of evidence here and
Starting point is 00:18:15 how they're going to do it. I did think it was interesting. If I'm I'm reading it correctly, maybe I'm not, but the Jennifer died in 2023. This case, again, my understanding was presented to the grand jury January of 2026. Why the delay? Is that unusual? Is this because this is a complex case? A lot of reasons, right? I think it could be determining whether or not we are going to proceed criminally can definitely play a role in making sure that you have all the necessary evidence that you need to present to a grand jury. It could be something as simple as there were, pieces of evidence that were delayed and they wanted to make sure they had those pieces of evidence
Starting point is 00:18:52 to put it towards the grand jury. It could have been something where there were, you know, things behind the scenes from, you know, the prosecution standpoint that they weren't sure or going back and forth to determining should we just let this be a civil case or should there be criminal charges brought. It could have also been something as simple as the family advocating. Maybe the prosecution originally decided that they were not going to oppress criminal charges based off of the information they had at the time. And maybe as information continues, to develop and they continue to receive more evidence than they determined to proceed with charging criminally.
Starting point is 00:19:24 Jennifer reportedly signed a consent form. If that's the case, what does that do in terms of liability, both from a civil or criminal context? From both contexts, the defendants are going to argue that she waived any rights that she had as a result of signing this specific waiver, that, you know, you waived your right to a lawsuit, you waived your right to, to any type of charges. regarding a civil litigation. However, criminally, that waiver, even though I'm sure the defendants will offer it,
Starting point is 00:19:53 that waiver doesn't mean anything. I signed a waiver not to see you, but now I'm not alive. So even if I signed this form, I'm sure no one could agree that I'm signing away my right to have some sort of remedy as a result of this, of dying as a result of this treatment. Or also the argument I consented to what the facts were presented to me at the time. If there was information that was allegedly concealed, that could be something that may be a way to get out of it. What is generally the line, though, between medical malpractice?
Starting point is 00:20:26 We see a number of these cases before, right, where somebody goes in for some sort of procedure. Something happens. If they survive, they're traumatized by it. They're injured by it. They can file a lawsuit. If they don't, even their surviving family members can file a medical malpractice, a wrongful death action, versus actual criminal action. What's that line? Who determines that?
Starting point is 00:20:47 So from medical malpractice, number one is civilly, right? Medical malpractice is civil litigation. So when you're talking about medical malpractice, you're asking if the actions that were taken by whoever the medical professionals were fell below the standard of medical care. And what that means is as practicing physicians, we have a duty to our patients. There are certain guidelines that must be adhered to at all times
Starting point is 00:21:12 because medical professionals took an oath. So if the care that you're giving, also known as the actions that you were doing on this individual, result and fall below the standard of care, which means that they're not all doctors across the board would agree that had we had this same patient and these same circumstances, we would have not engaged in certain behavior. That's how we get into a malpractice standpoint. Now, when we're talking on the criminal aspect, we're saying that these individuals fell below the law, right? that the whole point of how I think this transports itself into criminal court is because these individuals were practicing medicine without having the proper licensing that they needed to
Starting point is 00:21:51 to practice medicine. So now the felony aspect is I'm practicing medicine without having the necessary credentials. And as a result of my behavior that I took, now someone has unfortunately lost their life. And that's how we get into the criminal aspect. It seems a lot of the charges and a lot of the potential evidence are interwoven between Johnson and Gallagher. Do you see, see a situation where if there is going to be a finding of guilt, it's against both? Or do you seen scenarios where one holds more liability, potentially more liability than the other? Tell me what you think if they might see different potential outcomes for these defendants. Well, it depends on how the defendants, you know, I'll also set their case up, right?
Starting point is 00:22:35 Assuming they both have individual lawyers. If they're going to play the pointing game, right, One will say, like, I think Gallagher is the supervisor. He'll say, well, I wasn't aware of the behavior that was being engaged. I didn't, excuse me, I didn't verify that information. I didn't know what was going on, right? Therefore, I shouldn't be liable because I didn't specifically engage in the behavior. But there could be an other standpoint where they'll say that, well, I was supervised by Gallagher because Gallagher told me how to have all this, how to actually administer the information.
Starting point is 00:23:06 He told me what was supposed to be done. and I looked to him for information. And also there was a key piece when the notes were modified. I believe the notes in the chart were modified. And I don't know how it's to be determined who specifically made those modifications after the victim passed away. Ms. Cleveland passed away. They went back in the chart and they started messing with the chart, the medical chart,
Starting point is 00:23:29 after the fact. So depending on if it can be determined who was doing that, that might also tie both of the defendants in for them to both be held liable. What's the interplay? What's the connection between the lawsuit and the criminal case? Because sometimes, and correct me if I'm wrong, if you have overlapping defendants, couldn't you stay, pause the litigation while the criminal case makes its way? Or how does it work? Absolutely, Jesse, you're correct.
Starting point is 00:23:56 Criminal takes, you know, criminal, usually criminal cases are tried first because as a result of a criminal case, the individual is, you know, potentially has the loss of their life. right, as far as enjoyment, as far as being going to jail. You no longer have rights. So because your rights and your liberty are at stake, normally the criminal cases go first because civil cases have to do with money. And also, you don't want to say anything that could jeopardize your rights in the criminal trial, right?
Starting point is 00:24:23 I mean, because there's more avenues to compel your testimony in a civil case, and you don't want to say anything that can be used against you and violate your right against self-incrimination in a criminal case. So there's a chance that this is going to be. So in other words, we'll see the outcome of the criminal case before we see the civil case. And whatever happens in the criminal case doesn't necessarily dictate what would happen in the civil case, different standards, right? For sure, for sure. And that's what I was going to say, Jesse. We have two different standards here, right?
Starting point is 00:24:54 We have for criminal, we have beyond a reasonable doubt. And for civil, we have a preponderance of the evidence. So there's two different standards here. One is a lot lesser, which is why I'm almost 100% positive. The criminal case will go forward first. By the way, the idea I mentioned this before, that the disciplinary panel of the Texas Medical Board, they temporarily suspended Gallagher's medical license. Then it was reinstated.
Starting point is 00:25:19 They put these strict conditions on. Is that a fact that's going to be relevant for both the civil and criminal cases? For sure. And at minimum, to the extent that it'll be used to show that this individual had issues with their license, right? That can be something so small that then will, say, well, of course, they have issues with their license because they weren't necessarily adhering to the standard of care. So that's an argument that can be made by the prosecution. I'm definitely looking at the timelines in which, because, of course, there has to be some sort of disciplinary action
Starting point is 00:25:52 that is, that is begun or starts before the actual decision is made. So if I'm the prosecution, I'm looking at what type of information did they have at the beginning to start the disciplinary action And did it happen before my lawsuit? Did it happen during this lawsuit? Did it happen after the lawsuit to determine the timeline and to say maybe this individual shouldn't have been practicing medicine long before Ms. Cleave them passed away. By the way, just to finish this up, what do you make of Jennifer's law? So it went into effect September 2025, again, requires all IV treatments in the state in Texas to be administered by a licensed professional. I actually wonder if a lot of people look at this and say, that wasn't the case?
Starting point is 00:26:33 That wasn't what was going on? I'm one of those people, Jesse. I'd say the same thing. Well, why wasn't that always required? Especially when we have things like met. A lot of people hear in med spas and they think that it's just heightened for like Botox or things like that. But even things like Botox, even things like IV therapy,
Starting point is 00:26:51 things that seem very simple. This is still medicine, right? There's still a practice of medicine. There still has to be an individual who has a license to actually know how much of the medication to administer to not, unfortunately, unfortunately, you know, call someone to lose their life. Leah Roberts gave us a lot to think about. Thank you so much for taking the time.
Starting point is 00:27:10 Always appreciate it. Always a pleasure, Jesse. Thanks for having me. And that's all we have for you right now here on Sidebar. Everybody, thank you so much for joining us. And as always, please subscribe on YouTube, Apple Podcast, Spotify, wherever you should get your podcast. You can also check us out on NBC's Peacock as well.
Starting point is 00:27:25 If you want to follow me, X Instagram, my News Nation show, Jesse Weber Live, Monday through Friday, 11 p.m. Eastern. See you next time, everybody.

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