Law&Crime Sidebar - Minnesota Woman Murdered by Creepy Co-Worker After Refusing to Date Him

Episode Date: August 10, 2024

A Minnesota jury found Michael Carpenter, 38, guilty of shooting his co-worker, Nicole Hammond, killing her in the parking lot of the building where they worked. Text messages between the two show that Hammond wanted Carpenter to leave her alone. Law&Crime’s Jesse Weber has insight from Dan Murphy, co-author of the book "Workplace Safety: Establishing an Effective Violence Prevention Program."PLEASE SUPPORT THE SHOW: If you’re ever injured in an accident, you can check out Morgan & Morgan. You can submit a claim in 8 clicks or less without having to leave your couch. To start your claim, visit: https://www.forthepeople.com/LCSidebarDownload June’s Journey for free now using our link: https://woo.ga/464md4niHOST:Jesse Weber: https://twitter.com/jessecordweberLAW&CRIME SIDEBAR PRODUCTION:YouTube Management - Bobby SzokeVideo Editing - Michael Deininger and Christina FalconeScript Writing & Producing - Savannah WilliamsonGuest Booking - Alyssa Fisher & Diane KayeSocial Media Management - Vanessa BeinSTAY UP-TO-DATE WITH THE LAW&CRIME NETWORK:Watch Law&Crime Network on YouTubeTV: https://bit.ly/3td2e3yWhere To Watch Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3akxLK5Sign Up For Law&Crime's Daily Newsletter: https://bit.ly/LawandCrimeNewsletterRead Fascinating Articles From Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3td2IqoLAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandcrime/Twitter: https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetworkFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawandcrimeTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lawandcrimenetworkTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lawandcrimeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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keep you on the edge of your seat. Don't let your fears take hold of you as you dive into this addictive series. Love thrillers with a paranormal twist? The entire Oracle trilogy is available on Audible. Listen now on Audible. A man who shot his coworker to death because she wouldn't go on a date with him is going to prison. We've got to look at the criminal complaint that led to trial as the killer awaits sentencing and we're going to discuss it all with Dan Murphy, a retired NYPD detective who co-authored a book about violence in the workplace. Welcome to Sidebar, presented by law and crime. I'm Jesse Weber. So your job is a place you're supposed to feel safe, right? Hey, by the way, a lot of people, they even meet their best friends at work, they meet their significant others through

their job, can always be a great thing. But there are times when that is not the case. And for one woman in Minnesota who rejected a co-worker's advances, he ended up killing her. 38-year-old Michael Carpenter shot 28-year-old Nicole Hammond, who went by Nikki, in October of 2022 outside the textile company where they both worked in St. Cloud, Minnesota. According to the criminal complaint, the shooting happened early in the morning. This was just before 7 a.m. St. Cloud police responded to a 911 call of shots fired, and they found Nikki in the parking lot. She was laying with a puddle of blood around her head.

Now, the statement of probable cause refers to Nikki as victim A. So let's go through this real quick. Officers attempted life-saving measures but were unsuccessful. Officers noted that the driver's side door was open. Officers also noted a set of keys and a cell phone were all lying close to victim A. Additionally, officers found a shell casing on the ground close to victim A. So it appears she was hit in this kind of surprise attack right in the morning as she was going to work. The investigation revealed that Nikki was shot through the neck.

A witness unseen told police he actually saw Carpenter in the lot. Quote, one employee of the business, Witness X, stated they had pulled into the parking lot and observed a co-worker known as the defendant Michael Jordan Carpenter leave his vehicle and walk toward the south end of the parking lot. Witness X states as they got out of their vehicle, they heard a gunshot coming from the south. Witness X observed the defendant jogged to his vehicle, which he entered and then drove away. We're going to go through a lot of this because there's more in this statement, and there's more about the evidence that was collected. But I want to bring in a special guest right now. I'm joined by Dan Murphy, retired NYPD detective, and he co-authored the book, unfortunately, very apropos about what we're talking about here,

workplace safety, establishing an effective violence prevention program. Dan, thanks so much for coming on. Before we even dive into this case specifically, talk to us about the book. How'd you even get involved in writing this specifically? Good morning, Jesse. Well, the book itself was a collaboration between myself and a colleague, Randy Ferris. We had worked together for years on the assessment and management of cases within our larger organization. Now, people go to work and what they don't realize is their lives, follow.

them and sometimes their lives intertwine in such a way that it becomes uncomfortable for one or the other as we're seeing vividly played out in this case in Minnesota. We decided to take our experience of working with all we had a great deal of great training and thousands of cases of individual persons who were in the organization who were being either stalked or harassed by someone externally had threats posted against them and issued to them by either a romantic interest or a previous spouse, persons who were having difficulties with a supervisor and it was boiling up. All these things happen in the workplaces very commonly. We decided to put a book together to help an organization figure out how, from start to finish, to prevent violence within

your organization, to respond to it appropriately when it happens, and then to recover from it as an organization should it happen. So we put this, we worked for over a year on it, and we think I think it has served as a guide, we know it has served for a guide for a number of organizations we've consulted with, but we think it gives you a soup to nuts picture, how to hire people, how to terminate people, how to deal with internal issues that come up. And there's a wide variety of issues that come up, for example, like OSHA, how to be compliant with OSHA. We really think that our book hits a lot of notes, especially when we see cases like this coming up. It's so common in the workplace.

By the way, when we talk about stories like this that show you how on unpredictable the world is. It makes you think about one of the things that can really happen out of nowhere. And that's when you get hurt, right? What do you do next? Well, let me call out our incredible sponsor of Sidebar, Morgan and Morgan, America's largest injury law firm. Look, if you should find yourself in that unfortunate position, this is a firm you may want in your corner. They have over a thousand attorneys. They have a dedicated team of case specialists, investigators, power illegals. They have a track record of multi-million dollar verdicts and settlements. There's no up front fee. The whole process can be done straight from your smartphone. So if you're injured,

you can easily start a claim at for the people.com slash LC sidebar. By the way, in your experience as you talk about this, how common is it that you, you know, sexual harassment happens all the time in workplaces across the internet, but violence? How often does violence happen in a workplace? Something like this kind of case. It's not uncommon, but it's not every day, I would say. Depends upon the size of the workplace. Working in a larger organization and having the 38,000-foot level that I did, I had access to, and a great deal of these situations were brought up to us. Now, if you're able to properly assess what's going on and manage it properly,

you can deflate the issue. You can make it sort of move on its way if you do it right. If you handle it improperly, which is very common, you can see it blow up. And if you don't handle it at all, because either you don't know or you don't know how to, you can see what we had in Minnesota. And let's talk about this. I understand you're actually from Minnesota, so I'm sure this kind of case hits a little bit closer. Well, I live here now from New York.

Well, that's right, right, right. Let me your phrase. Let me your phrase. Yeah, from New York, but live there now. So I'm, you know, I'm sure this case kind of affects you a little bit differently. But I want to go through this, going back to this document. So it says, quote, in searching victim A's phone, officers came across numerous text messages between victim A and the defendant from the night prior, indicating victim A did not want to be touched by the defendant. nor did she want to be manipulated by him.

She also informed him to not make things uncomfortable at work. Officers also found a text message from victim A to another person stating that the defendant was mad at her. It goes on to say, in speaking with various coworkers, they indicated that the defendant had made numerous advances toward victim A, but his advances had been repeatedly rebuffed over the course of the past month. co-workers also described the defendant as having a bad temper that is very illuminating dan because you now have this idea that it wasn't just a one-off people saw this now if she if she had come

to someone in her organization and told them about this and that person had any real training and threat assessment they would have looked at the various factors involved and they would have said this is a very significant risk in this situation right now one of the most important things to remember about unwanted attention cases, and apparently she didn't want his romantic attention, but she was willing to accept communication with him via text messaging. One of the most important things for victims of these cases to remember is that when you accept communications from someone, even if you think you're telling them, I don't want to date you, I don't want a romantic relationship with you. What you're saying to that person who is laser-like focused on dating

you is that I'm willing to communicate with you, and the tennis match can continue. continue. And so, of course, it will go on forever. And that person always feels they have a chance. It's like that Jim Carrey moment from Dumb and Dumber, you're saying there's a chance, one in a million. And by continuing to communicate, by not blocking him, by not making it definitive, she allowed this to go on, and he kept feeling he had a chance. But I want to be clear, we're not putting any blame on Nikki whatsoever, obviously. It's just a situation that we and here's the problem and i kind of want to go back to this so nicky's boss rob dubo told local media at fox nine that harassment was never reported to management

unfortunately we had no idea anytime there's anything that requires our intervention we step in but in this case we had no indication that there was anything awry so dan it seems to me that this might not have been reported uh by nicky and again not putting the blame on her but what do you make, is there kind of a lesson here that this should have been reported? Because it could be uncomfortable. It could be uncomfortable going to your supervisors, your employer, and telling them what's going on. And particularly if you're dealing with a guy who has a temper, who is angry, but what should we take away from this? She didn't report it probably for a variety of reasons, only she knows. And again, I think the lessons here are that continuing to communicate

with somebody who you don't want to communicate with, continuing to accept and going back and forth with someone can lead them to, they won't stop until you stop. So I equated to a tennis match, if you don't hit the ball back over the net, the game stops. Right. If you keep hitting it back, it will. Now, reporting has to do with your confidence in the organization. Right.

If the organization doesn't have an infrastructure or a history of showing that they will handle these situations properly, then maybe that confidence isn't there and there's no point. And it might even blow things up. People get very afraid. They get a victim mentality when they're being. pursued by someone they don't want to be romantically with. So that may have happened here.

What could employers do in this situation? So there's one thing, right, to call someone in, find out what's going on. I imagine doing an internal investigation. You could always terminate the employee. But if you're dealing with a situation that could potentially be dangerous, what would employers do in this situation like that? With a situation like this, you need to know everything you can about the individual who is the pursuer. So a proper assessment includes looking at any criminal history.

any previous complaints of people in that workplace, and determining whether or not this person is in a fairly stable life or not. Some people put all their hope in their life in this one thing, and when that falls apart, they don't have anything to live for. Now, people who have stable lives, who have interests, generally tend not to go to extreme violence because they have a lot to lose. With a situation like this, knowing everything you can about him, him, someone very smart once said, the single best indicator of future violence is past violence,

period. So if this gentleman had a history, a documented history of violence, you could assume that that is one of the ways that he handles his grievances and his frustrations in life. But people with no history have less inclination and tendency to go to extreme violence over a frustration. I think it's interesting that you had coworkers who said he had a bad temper. They kind of acknowledged that about him. Now, going back to the case here, so the all officers, they get a warrant, they search Carpenter's car, they find a 9mm pistol and a loaded magazine in a carrying case in the back sea. And officers also found one round in the chamber, and the style and brand of the bullets matched the shell casing that was found next to Nicky.

Officers end up arresting Carpenter at his sister's home. He was still wearing the same clothes that witnesses said that he'd been wearing in the parking lot at the time of the shooting. So now you're seeing the evidence just adding up against him. And when police spoke with Carpenter, he denied shooting Nicky, but he said he was in the parking lot when this happened. The court documents state, quote, the defendant admitted walking toward victim A's car when he heard a gunshot and that he saw a person in a hat attending to victim A. He stated that he saw a lot of blood, was too traumatized, so he turned around and left. Now, he didn't render aid, go to work, nor did he call 911. The defendant also admitted to officers that he didn't sleep well the night before.

as he kept waking up due to the text argument he had with victim A. The defendant stated that he was upset about that text conversation. Dan, what do you make of it? Well, I think the evidence against him from a perspective of detective investigating and a prosecutor is overwhelming. The statement is laughable. It's not uncommon for people to create a third fictitious person that did it. O.J. Simpson did that. Everybody does that.

But this individual under pressure when he never found. He never found the killer on the golf course? You know, I have jokingly said on my podcast that I'm going to search the golf courses of America now that OJ has passed on because I believe that work is important and needs to be done. In this case, you know, all the evidence has come together quite nicely against him. So there really isn't much of a defense, I think. He will, you know, he was found guilty in the court and rightly so, it seems, based upon the evidence. But people under pressure like that will make ridiculous statements. It is unreasonable or unrealistic to believe that somebody who allegedly cares about somebody would watch them get shot, not render aid, not call 911.

Nothing about that makes any sense. And if he was close and if there was stippling and it was a close contact gunshot wound, then he would have float on himself and his clothes would show that, not knowing the rest of the evidence in the case, everything about this screams that he did it. Doesn't it seem like when you talk about, and we'll get to a second, because he was found guilty not only of intention murder but premeditated murder, this was like an ambush. This was a surprise attack. There wasn't even, I mean, as far as I know, and I haven't, you know, I didn't watch the whole trial. I didn't have an opportunity to, but I didn't see anything that, you know, he had a conversation with her before, but it felt like this was going in with a plan to kill her, right?

I mean, if you even talk about the crime scene that I mentioned. I believe he went in, in my opinion, with a plan. It's a last and final opportunity for you to say, yes, that you'll date me, or I'm going to do A, B, and C. I'm going to kill you. so he probably in that conversation gave a last ditch effort to have her see how great he was and when that failed he boiled over so look i'll be the first to tell you this is a horrible case it is sad it is serious i am going to do a quick 180 though and i'll get back to this case it's

not to take away from the story but we have a sponsor that i want to talk to you about and first you might be saying jesse come on really this is what you're going to talk about right now but let me tell you covering the stories we do on sidebars not easy and sometimes you need to unwind. You need to decompress. You need to escape. But if you're a true crime fan and you don't want to give it up completely, let me tell you about June's Journey. So June's journey is a mobile crime mystery game and it transports you back to the dazzling error of the roaring 1920s. The free to download game lets you be the detective. It helps you solve the case by working through these very gripping clues. It's really fun to play. And by the way,

you can decorate the game yourself, which is just really nice as well. And right now, you can Download June's Journey for free by clicking the link in the description, pinned in the comments or scan the QR code on screen. June's Journey is available on Android and iOS mobile devices as well as on PC through Facebook games. Now, here's what's really interesting about the prosecution of this case. The state's Attorney General Keith Ellison actually stepped in to help Benton County with this prosecution because there's a Minnesota statute that says upon request of the county attorney, the Attorney General shall appear in court in such criminal cases as the Attorney General deems proper. And on Friday, a jury found Carpenter guilty, a first-degree premeditated murder, and second-degree, intentional murder.

After the verdict, Attorney General Ellison said, I accepted this case because under the law, it is my job to assist our county attorneys when they ask for help. Minnesotans in every corner of our state deserve equal justice, and my office is here to help provide it. When a prosecutor asks for my help, I will seek justice for victims and prosecutors. to the fullest extent of the law. Minnesota first degree premeditated murder carries a mandatory life sentence without the possibility of parole and carpenter's sentencing is scheduled for September 20th. But Dan, the idea that the AG stepped in because Benton County needed a little bit more

of resources or help, or is it also the idea of what this case means? Your live there now. Talk to me about what you make of that decision that the AG stepped in on this one. I don't find it unusual. I think a lot of counties in states like Minnesota and all across the country can be understaffed, can have a lack of resources. They rely on state resources, whether it be for investigation and or prosecution. I don't find it unusual, although there might have been some angle somewhere to show that there is a greater force at play against you should you decide to do this level of violence, although I don't know directly whether it's the workplace, but relationship violence can be extreme. And in this case, we saw just how extreme it can be.

So I think it's probably a better idea to have bigger guns, so to speak, and more resources coming to play in a case that really matters. And all cases matter. But this is a very significant crime, I think, in many ways. And before we go, if you can wrap it up in terms of one of the things that we do on cyber and the reason we present these cases, other than bringing attention to the victims and what happened here and the legal case, is sometimes to provide a warning to people, right? They might be in a similar kind of situation. They might see similar kind of characteristics,

warning signs. Obviously, you mentioned this is more of an extreme kind of case, but if there's something that can be taken away from this, what would you advise employers to do who might be listening to this case and wondering, you know, is something very similar happening with my employees? What would you advise employers to do after this?

I think employers need to understand that there are dynamics at play in relationships that spillover into the workplace, I can guarantee that the performance of these two employees wasn't what it should have been because they're very wrapped up in something that's going on. And also probably lifestyle things had changed. She might have been late for work regularly,

which is commonly seen in people who have this type of stress on them. When you think about it from an employer's perspective, if you don't wanna delve into your workers' lives to invade their privacy, yet you need to protect them in the workplace. She was killed outside her workplace. by a coworker as an element of responsibility

that comes to their employer. Employers need to know that you need to have some capability in this area, whether it be a third party that you can call to help you with these, not just a security company to put a guard up there, but someone to do actual assessment, investigation, determine what's really at play

because these all work along a scale. They're moving their way up towards violence. And in this situation, I would think a review of the text messaging and the chronicling of the line of events, timeline is going to show you that this was moving in a fairly predictable way towards a violent outcome. And that's based upon thousands and thousands of cases that have been studied. Employers need to know they have a responsibility. They need to know that they have to hire, if possible, outside people

to help you with their expertise when these matters arise. It's just a really, really sad case. 28 years old, she was in the prime of her life, had so much more life to live, and this is what happens. We're sending our prayers, our best wishes, our thoughts to Nikki Hammond's family. And, you know, it's just a, it's kind of an unspeakable crime. It's really hard to process. Dan Murphy, thank you so much for coming on. Really appreciate you taking the time. And, you know, again, thank you for the work that you do.

I think a lot of people need to hear it. Thank you, Jesse. I appreciate the opportunity. Have a great day, sir. You too. All right, everybody, that's all we have for you right now here on Sidebar. Thank you so much for joining us. And also, once again, just want to thank June's Journey for sponsoring this episode.

Always appreciate the support. You can download June's Journey for free by clicking the link in the description. It's pinned on the comments. You can scan the QR code on screen. June's Journey available on Android, iOS mobile devices, and PC through Facebook games. Thank you so much. I'm Jesse Weber. I'll see you next time.

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