Law&Crime Sidebar - Missing Teacher Found Dead in Backyard Miles from Home

Episode Date: January 23, 2024

Oklahoma teacher and mother of three Amanda Harms was last seen on January 13, one day before her birthday. Her family wants to know how she ended up in a backyard a few miles away and why it took days to find her. Law&Crime’s Jesse Weber sits down with Chad Ayers, a former sheriff’s deputy and founder of ProActive Response Group, to talk about where the investigation goes from here.HOST:Jesse Weber: https://twitter.com/jessecordweberLAW&CRIME SIDEBAR PRODUCTION:YouTube Management - Bobby SzokePodcasting - Sam GoldbergVideo Editing - Michael DeiningerScript Writing & Producing - Savannah WilliamsonGuest Booking - Alyssa Fisher & Diane KayeSocial Media Management - Vanessa BeinSTAY UP-TO-DATE WITH THE LAW&CRIME NETWORK:Watch Law&Crime Network on YouTubeTV: https://bit.ly/3td2e3yWhere To Watch Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3akxLK5Sign Up For Law&Crime's Daily Newsletter: https://bit.ly/LawandCrimeNewsletterRead Fascinating Articles From Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3td2IqoLAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandcrime/Twitter: https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetworkFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawandcrimeTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lawandcrimenetworkTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lawandcrimeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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will keep you on the edge of your seat. Don't let your fears take hold of you as you dive into this addictive series. Love thrillers with a paranormal twist? The entire Oracle trilogy is available on Audible. Listen now on Audible. An Oklahoma family is devastated after their missing loved one was found dead. But they say they're getting conflicting information about what happened. They want some straight answers. We're sitting down with Chad Ayers, a former sheriff's deputy and founder of Proactive Response Group to talk about where the investigation goes from here. Welcome to Sidebar, presented by law and crime. I'm Jesse Weber. Amanda Harms, a 46-year-old teacher, mom of three, grandmother of a

grandson. She was last seen on Saturday, January 13th, the day before her birthday. And then on Thursday, five days later, she was found dead in a backyard. Muskogee, Oklahoma. The police have said that they don't think that there was any foul play, but her family is confused by this. Eric Harms, Amanda's husband, and Shelley Townsend, Amanda's mother, say they met with investigators to try to get more information. Now, to talk about this, I want to bring in Chad Ayers, former sheriff's deputy, founder

of Proactive Response Group, to dig a little bit more into this. Love having Chad on when we talk about these kind of investigations that haven't been closed yet, understanding what happened. And Chad, good to see you. Great to have you back here on Sidebar. I want to lay this out for everybody. So the family says that Amanda was walking to the store. She didn't take her money or her phone.

They later learned that she was seen on camera getting a ride from someone. Amanda was found dead in that backyard, which was about three miles from her home, possibly inside of a shed. And investigators told Townsend that it looked like Amanda may have tried to climb a fence because there was some clothing tangled in the fence wire. In fact, Townsend said, quote, we won't know for sure until we get the autopsy report.

We do know at the end of her life, she was desperately trying to get somebody to let her come into a house so she could get warm, but they would not answer the door. She also said, quote, her husband said in all the years that he's known her, meaning known Amanda, she would never climb a fence, but obviously maybe because of the circumstances, she was desperate and thought if she could get over that fence, maybe she could find another house that would let her come in.

Chad, what do you make of this? You know, Jesse, at face, there's a lot of like, when you first read the story, there's a lot of concerns that would initially make anybody go back and say, okay, the husband had something to do with this or someone that she knew, leaving the house, you know, just the whole story of she's walking to the store, but she leaves all of her personal belongings,

she leaves all of her cash, credit cards, and just starts walking. But the more that we dive into this and hear what law enforcement says about the case, it kind of brings light to probably, you know, what happened. I don't think we're going to get the full detail, maybe not ever. Once the autopsy report comes back, we're probably going to get a good cause of death. But at face, it is concerning. But as we start to look at, you know, the facts and how law enforcement, found her and some of the doorbells that were ring doorbells or surveillance that was

captured of her it kind of brings a bigger picture that we can talk about the police said there's nothing suspicious at home there's no signs of foul play what does that tell you you know if I'm looking at this for an outsider something tells me that maybe there was some type of either just an argument or a disagreement or and again I'm just speculating here that maybe Amanda was intoxicated, went to go walk or, you know, walk around, not being in her right frame of mind. What I can tell you, Jesse, is I've worked cases where people were discovered, you know, unfortunately frozen to death in these types of conditions. And they will seek, there comes a point where they do start to seek shelter. And, you know,

mentally their mind goes to, you know, anywhere that may be warm, which is, you know, Amanda being found in that shed, but I think when toxicology reports come back, it's going to shed a little bit more light on, you know, was she under the influence of any type of drugs or prescription medication or alcohol that caused her to, you know, go out there? Let's be honest, Jesse, you're up in an area that it's freezing cold, you know, most of the wintertime and snow and stuff like that. It's just not a common occurrence for someone just to go walking in the freezing snow, especially for a distance like three miles.

I guess my concern is, and to be clear, let me clarify what I said. Police said there was nothing suspicious at the scene, not necessarily the home. So nothing suspicious at the scene where they found her or foul play. It just seems to me if we're taking all of this is true and she walks off without having these items on her. And just to go further with what this Townsend said, her mother, quote, I believe that somewhere along her route that she was somebody picked her up, somebody offered her a ride possibly. and because it was so cold, I believe she got in the vehicle with them. They offered her a ride. She got in and it was the wrong person.

That's she's speculating there. But just to be clear, that's the part that doesn't add up to me. Why would Amanda be in this position? You know, it's different if, for example, you went out to a nearby store. It was cold. You left your phone. You left your keys. You couldn't get back in the house.

Something like that. It was a snowstorm. I'm not getting that here. And three miles away from her home is quite a distance. Well, and let's be honest, and that's what's kind of concerning to me or what, that kind is what's taking me back to what state of mind or what frame of mind was a man in. We're not just talking about, you know, someone who was homeless or, you know, a known drug addict or prostitute that's walking the streets, you know, let's just lay it out there.

This is a mother, you know, I think we mentioned a grandmother, someone who had a good and what seems to be a good home life to just up. and walk away, you know, makes me think there's some type of frame of mind. It's 24. You just don't see that happening. So that really, like I said, the toxicology reports is going to be very interesting to me once that comes out as to see, you know, was she under the influence of something that made her make these decisions, you know, from the start to finish. Let me ask you about that. So the medical examiner is going to do a full autopsy. You're going to do a toxicology report. Did you think the police saying there are no signs of foul play at this point, they could reverse that

once this report comes back? Or do you think that they already know something and they can guess what the autopsy and toxicology report's going to say, but they don't want to confirm it until they know for sure? Right. So a lot of times, especially in South Carolina where I'm from, and I've taken part of a dozen autopsies in my career because I didn't really work violent crimes a lot.

I was affiliated. But autopsy, the actual autopsy cause of death is pretty much immediate if there if there is something right there especially if there was any type of bruising signs of any type of physical assault sexual assault things like that you're going to know that immediately now the toxicology part usually takes six to eight weeks to come back so you're talking about extended period of that if there is any type of bruising or signs of a physical struggle i truly believe that the muskogee police department would let the family know hey we we you know, we suspect that there is some type of foul play, but we are investigating this more.

I don't see Muskogee police trying to cover this up saying there's nothing there when there was something there. Did the elements affect it if she had been out there and hadn't been discovered for several days? I mean, these pathologists are pretty good. I mean, you can even see, and bodies that have been burned or decomposed, they can tell, you know, bruising. Again, I'm not part of the medical field to really dive into that. Obviously, especially in colder temperatures, your metabolism slows down. Cold temperatures is good for preserving the body, obviously.

I mean, we saw this in the Arctic Age, right? So cold weather is good for preserving, you know, bodies. But I still go back to, and this is Chad Ayers just speculating that it's going to come out that there was something in her system, whether it was just intoxication, some type of hills or alcohol i hope that's not the case for the family obviously um that's kind of what i've you know as i've read several of these stories and dove into this that's kind of what i'm thinking i just don't see anyone in their right mind look oklahoma you know last week got hit with a ton of snow um and i just don't see someone being in their right frame of mind leading all their belongings

and going on a walk what i want to know is you know a little bit more from the husband again i I do not suspect the husband has anything to do with this. But, you know, I want to dive in. As an investigator, that's what I want to know. Hey, was she under the influence of anything that night? See if he's honest about that. What about the person she maybe was in the car with? Do you think the investigators or police are looking into who that is?

Because the family is now asking for anyone with surveillance video that might have spotted Amanda, let them know, try to sort out what happened, who she might have gotten a ride from. I mean, do you think they're looking into that person? Or do you think they know who that person is? You know, with today's modern technology and cameras being everywhere, we've talked about this on, you know, some of your shows before, ring doorbells, surveillance cameras, stoplight cameras. Something tells me they probably have a good idea, or probably have already identified the vehicle in this.

And 100%, that's part of your investigation. I want to know who the last person she spoke to or had contact with before. That could also shed light into that. I'll be honest, once they identify. the last person, I wouldn't be surprised if they asked for a DNA swab from that person just to eliminate them as any type

of suspect should something be discovered throughout this process. That's really, really sad situation. It's terrible. Yeah, I'd like I'm going to continue, we're going to continue to follow it because I think we need some answers as to what happened here. Clearly the family does. You mentioned the toxic college report. Might not come back

for some time, the autopsy report. Let's continue to focus on this because she was a, sounded like a great, great person, family woman, six, seventh grade teacher, and her school district, Muscogee Public Schools, they're providing counselors for staff and students as they try to deal with this incredible loss. So really, our hearts go out to Amanda Harms family, and we will continue to follow it, see what happens.

But Chad Ayers, thank you so much for taking the time. Really appreciate it. Always good to be here, Jesse. All right, everybody. That's all we have for you right now here on sidebar. Thank you so much for joining us. Please subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jesse Weber.

I'll speak to you next time. You can binge all episodes of this long crime series. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.