Law&Crime Sidebar - Mother and Son Murder Mystery Deepens with Graphic Court Documents

Episode Date: July 9, 2025

Shocking warrant affidavits are revealing what may have happened inside a Utah townhome back in March, when Jessica Orton Lyman and her 8-year-old son Eli Painter were found shot in the head. But as the information in the warrants spreads, Saratoga Springs police are raising the alarm about potential misinformation. Law&Crime’s Jesse Weber got the latest from KUTV anchor and reporter Brian Schnee.PLEASE SUPPORT THE SHOW: If you received Depo-Provera birth control shots and were later diagnosed with a brain or spinal tumor called meningioma, you may be eligible for a lawsuit. Visit https://forthepeople.com/lcdepo to start a claim now!HOST:Jesse Weber: https://twitter.com/jessecordweberLAW&CRIME SIDEBAR PRODUCTION:YouTube Management - Bobby SzokeVideo Editing - Michael Deininger, Christina O'Shea & Jay CruzScript Writing & Producing - Savannah Williamson & Juliana BattagliaGuest Booking - Alyssa Fisher & Diane KayeSocial Media Management - Vanessa BeinSTAY UP-TO-DATE WITH THE LAW&CRIME NETWORK:Watch Law&Crime Network on YouTubeTV: https://bit.ly/3td2e3yWhere To Watch Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3akxLK5Sign Up For Law&Crime's Daily Newsletter: https://bit.ly/LawandCrimeNewsletterRead Fascinating Articles From Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3td2IqoLAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandcrime/Twitter: https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetworkFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawandcrimeTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lawandcrimenetworkTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lawandcrimeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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keep you on the edge of your seat. Don't let your fears take hold of you as you dive into this addictive series. Love thrillers with a paranormal twist? The entire Oracle trilogy is available on Audible. Listen now on Audible. A murder mystery deepens out in Utah after a mother and her eight-year-old son were gunned down in their own home. New court documents lay out more details about what may be going on behind closed doors and how a 15-year-old is now part of the story. Welcome to Sidebar, presented by Law and Crime. I'm Jesse Weber. Hey, everybody, this is another law and crime legal alert. If you received Depo-Provera birth control shots and were later diagnosed with a brain or spinal tumor called meningioma,

you may be eligible for a lawsuit. That's right. Morgan and Morgan is investigating claims that patients weren't properly warned about this risk. It's free to check. Just takes a few minutes and you don't pay unless they win. So scan the QR code on screen, click the link below or go to for the people.com slash LC Depot to see if you qualify. Okay, we have newly unsealed warrants that are maybe providing more details about what happened inside of a Saratoga Springs Utah townhome back in March of this year. But I will tell you right now, apparent miscommunications and bad information from the courts and police department. They are making this case even more complicated, okay? We are going to try

to break it all down for you right now. But here's what we seem to know. On March 28, 2025 at around 10 a.m., a 17-year-old girl came home to find her mom, an eight-year-old brother on the floor of the mom's bedroom shot in the head. According to Utah News Station, KSLTV, the teen had called 911 and told them that her eight-year-old brother, Eli Painter, and her mom, 44-year-old Jessica Orton Lyman, were unconscious on a bed and bleeding from their heads. She also reportedly told the dispatcher that her other brother, a 15-year-old, was also in the townhome. Now, Eli, was pronounced dead at the scene. Jessica was rushed to a hospital, but died three days later, and based on what first responders saw at the scene and what doctors discovered when she arrived

at the hospital, investigators suggested that Jessica may have been sexually assaulted. We were able to get affidavits that were submitted by law enforcement to the court in order to obtain warrants in connection with the case. And investigators filed the paperwork after the killings and for some reason the files were unsealed in the court docket. But according to these documents, police are investigating the crimes of murder and sexual assault. And the affidavits, they offer up these detailed, and I will tell you, sometimes graphic descriptions of what police found when they searched the townhome and spoke with a 15-year-old son, but we don't have all the answers, okay? The warrants they were granted so that police could seize multiple electronic

devices, including several laptops, tablets, phones from the home, and to get digital evidence related to multiple accounts from companies like Ring and Apple and Google and Discord. court. According to the first investigators on scene, Eli and Jessica appeared to have both been shot in the head with a small caliber round. An autopsy would later discover that Eli had actually been shot twice while Jessica was shot just once. This is according to news outlet KUTV. Jessica was barely alive when officers got there and paramedics took over CPR when they arrived soon after. Actually, this is from the warrant affidavit. According to the paramedic, he and another paramedic moved Jessica from the bed to the floor. While moving Jessica, he observed that

Jessica was wearing shorts that were normally situated around her waist and that a pair of underwear were pulled down around her knees. Once the paramedics took over emergency care, the police officers, they moved to clear the house, starting in the basement and working their way up. According to the affidavit, one of the officers saw a mail exit from a bedroom door upstairs. And the officers told him to come sit in the living room. That mail was identified as Jessica's 15-year-old son, who, by the way, were not identifying by name at this time, just to make it clear. But the teen apparently sat down with an officer, an officer Potts. And it reads, quote, Potts remained in the living room with him. And according to Potts, he asked Potts what had

happened multiple times. Pots told him that what he knew was limited. Pots then asked what he had been doing that day, and he responded that he'd been in his room taking a nap. Potts asked him if he heard anything, and he responded, no. Pots asked him if anyone else lived at the residence, and he identified his sister, brother Eli, mother Jessica, and sometimes Eli's dad. Pots also asked him if there were any weapons in the home, and he responded that he wasn't aware of any guns inside the home. At that point, he had not been told by EMS or police officers that the incident involved a gun or gunshot wounds. While speaking with Pots, he removed his cell phone from his pocket. This phone was later collected by law enforcement.

After Jessica and Eli's bodies were removed from the scene, officers got a search warrant so they could take a look around and try to figure out what happened. They found two 22 shell casings inside of the master bedroom where the victims had been. Forensic techs also used an alternate light source to look at the bed, and they found what's believed to be dried seminal fluid next to where Jessica had been. Other bedrooms were also searched. Reading from the warrant affidavit, quote, also found during the initial search of the residence were a variety of sex toys and lubricant located in both Jessica's bedroom and the teen's bedroom. Individual black fishnet stockings that matched were found. One stocking in Jessica's bedroom.

the other in the teen's bedroom. Both stockings were found in dresser drawers. Also found in the teen's bedroom were several pairs of small female panties. So obviously, very odd that one would be in a dresser in one room and the other would be an addresser in another room. And the investigators noted that when they searched the teen son's room, they said it was very messy, which honestly would be typical of a teenager's room.

But in addition to dirty clothes and dishes, they also found two BB gun pistols, plate carriers, and magazine pouches. One of the detectives noted that he found a handwritten note referencing forensic evidence. The affidavit reads, specifically, the note mentioned serology, DNA, and firearm testing. Manus also located a second handwritten note stating, this is a murder story. So the day after Eli and Jessica were killed, detectives spoke to neighbors in the text, town home community who had surveillance cameras, and they were able to find video of a large part of the street outside of the Lyman home. The warrant application states, quote, both cameras

capture an individual exiting a gap between 1261 Silvercrest Drive and 1273 Silvercrest Drive at approximately 2.30 a.m. on March 28, 2025. The individual then appears to walk short distances both north and south on Silvercrest Drive before he turns north onto Willowbrook Lane only yards north of the Lyman residence. The individual is then observed approaching and entering a gap between 1262 Willowbrook Lane and 1254 Willowbrook Lane walking east.

Before the individual walks out of the camera's view, he's seen pausing and putting on what appears to be a white mask over his face. The 1254 residence is part of the same building to which the Lyman residence is connected. So basically, it seems they see this person, walk between buildings, turn on to the street where the crime scene is, go through another gap to get to the back of the townhomes,

where police indicate that the home can be accessed by a sliding glass door, and this person puts on a mask at first. Definitely something suspicious going on here based on these documents, right? Now, another video showed the same figure walking back the way they came around a half hour later. Turns out, when they searched the home originally, investigators did see several masks, including one that is a lighter color, but they didn't collect them at the time.

A white and brown mask was collected from the teenage son's room during the next search on April 1st. On April 2nd, police got some critical evidence from a forensic download of Jessica's phone. They found a text message exchange between Jessica and her teenage son from the summer before, July 2024. And many of those messages are way too vulgar to repeat here, but I will give you a little bit of a few, like, quote, I don't like you go away. Do you need to learn how to shut your mouth? You're so bleeping mentally ill.

Do you know how insignificant you really are in my life? Very insignificant. And I wish I died in your stomach wouldn't have to put up with you. Yeah, those are apparent texts from a teenager to his mother. So what about the murder weapon, right? The gun that killed Jessica and Eli. As of the submission of these warrants, the gun hadn't been found, and we've gotten no word otherwise from police.

They've deployed dogs trained to track down metallic objects. They flew drones in the area. They searched the home again. They didn't find any weapons. And so far, no arrests have been made. no suspect has been identified by police. As part of this warrant application, request is included to seal the search warrant

and related documents. It reads, quote, this is an active murder investigation. If the suspect were to obtain the information listed in this affidavit, it could cause substantial risk of harm to a person's safety, pose a clearly unwarranted invasion of

or harm to a person's reputation or privacy, and pose a serious impediment to the investigation. But for some reason, the application only requested that they be sealed until July 7th. It appears that after that, the warrant documents appeared on the court docket. So when law and crime reached out to the Saratoga Springs Police Department for a comment, the deputy police chief told us that the documents had, quote, slipped through the cracks and that they were, quote, expired. He also indicated that there might

be some misinformation or old details included in the documents that are no longer relevant, but didn't really indicate what exactly. Now, we haven't heard back from him with an update at the time of this recording on Wednesday, you kind of get a context of what we're talking about. So let's talk more about this. Right now, I want to bring back in friend of the show, familiar face, friendly face, friend of mine, Brian Schnee, anchor reporter from KUTV out in Utah. Brian, so good to see you. It's been a minute. And now I bring you on for what is not only a very chilling and eerie case, but so complicated with all the information. I kind of laid a it out before. Explain to us just though the warrants, right? Because the timeline of the warrants

is one of the most complicated aspects of this case and trying to get information about what's going on with the investigation. You know, Jesse, it's great to be back with you. And we're talking about something that's really, really bizarre. And the, I'll say this right out of the gate. What's most bizarre about it is how we've had no information from police. And I want that to be known. We've tried. I've tried. I can pull up the text. messages, I can pull up the emails. It's been every week, every two weeks, via text, to be email, we have nothing new. So when a warrant like this, or in this case, 10 of them come out, after being sealed for three months, we go, wow, there's a lot of stuff in here. And it's

probably because all we had known previously were the basics of the mother and the son. We knew that they were likely killed. We knew that there were people outside of the home because my colleague also named Brian, has spent a lot of time in this neighborhood talking with people that had the surveillance video in the cameras, one of which is named in this search warrant. And what we do know, at least was the timeline of people that were outside the home that day. Was it one person? Maybe it was mentioned that there were two people in the warrant. It believes that there is one person. It sets a specific time frame between a half hour window in the early hours of the morning and then nothing else. So there's a lot of bizarre things to this. You asked about the warrants. In Utah,

they can be sealed for 21 days, for three months, for six months. Seems like Saratoga Springs police did three months, and they all came out at once over the holiday weekend. The warrants themselves are not different. They're just asking warrants for different things, a Chromebook, an iPad, a camera, like a surveillance camera. Maybe it's for the home itself. Maybe it's for a car. Maybe it's for another piece of electronic device found in the home. That is how these warrants work. And because there were 10 warrants doesn't mean there's 10, nine-page affidavits also listed that are different, a lot of which that we're seeing in those documents are the same. What's difficult about these warrants is what is fact and what is fiction. This is early on in

the investigation. In investigation, we've heard virtually nothing about. And so when we see they found DNA, right, believed to be semen. They have a 15-year-old in the house, which were being very judicious and not saying his name because at the end of the day, no one's been arrested and no one's been charged. And we are three months plus

after a mother and her eight-year-old son were shot to death in their home in a very quaint, bustling, growing community that is Saratoga Springs where it's very tightly knit. It's also the very stereotypical, where homes are being built on top of each other. Everyone knows their neighbors, you'd hope.

So there's a lot of things to pick apart here that are very bizarre. And we're trying to figure out what is real. And we've been trying to figure out what is real for the last three months and two weeks, basically since this had taken place. But all we knew is two people had died and apparently there's no threat to the public.

That's what we had been told from the very beginning. I appreciate you explain that Because from our outside perspective, we like, I think a lot of people looking at this case have more questions than answers. And the fact that you're not getting that. Look, at one hand, I will say, this is not the first time I've seen law enforcement be tight-lipped about an investigation, particularly high profile. I get it. Same here. I will say, you know, you tell me, is the community talking about this?

Is this something that shocked that neighborhood? Is it shocked people? Are people discussing this case because it is strange, it is brutal, and there are a lot of interesting details about it. You know, people are definitely discussing it because like I mentioned, there are a number of Bryans that work at our TV station. And we've had all the Bryans on this case, one of which is a seasoned reporter who's been doing this for a long time and has spent a lot of time in this neighborhood. People are talking to him. People are also saying, yeah, I want a little more information. I want to know if my kids are all right.

I want to know if I can, you know, go for a walk when the sun goes down. Should I be concerned? They are talking. They're talking more when our coverage is coming out. They're talking more when it's back in the spotlight because, you know, time has people forget. You work for a network. I work for a network that moves in a way where you try to cover everything about a case, but there's always something new that pops up, especially in today's society.

There's always another big case that is grabbing our attention for what. ever reason. We've never let this case go because we've known nothing about the circumstances. So when a warrant like this is unsealed, which is kind of, I guess you could say my specialty if I have one, I look for these because I know in a way they will shed some light on things that we did not know, a lot of things you and I have talked about on law and crime network over the last few years, a lot of which were found in these search warrants. And it's because of the three to five percent information given by police, where the rest is withheld. And listen, I understand the compromising of investigations.

I'm not trying to say we need to do that here. But there's a lot of things in these pieces of papers that do beg at least a follow-up answer of, is this still relevant? Did you find that gun in the river that you had search and rescue volunteers looking for? You know, did the DNA come back? Did it come back as a hit? if so, you know, what did it show? Or is that the reason why there's a hang up here?

Because you haven't gotten the forensics back. And I think just in explanation, without even tiptoeing too much into this investigation, would really warrant a lot more understanding from not just the media, but the community, the community who has been talking about this. As you went through this paperwork, what stood out to you? Obviously, you're mentioning some of the questions you have, but what were some pieces of it that you said, huh, that might be significant. And that's something we didn't know.

That's something that I, you know, it tells a little bit more of the story. And obviously there is a question about, is there misinformation? Is this the accurate data? But this did reveal more. And what stood out to you as you were going through it? I think it's just the fact that the 15 year old has to answer some questions. And we don't know the answers of what he said in those interviews. We do know that he was home at the time.

We do know that the daughter was not home at the time and called 911. stuff we knew pretty early on, though. But what we learned about the tendencies, at least that were written. Sure, this is very preliminary, and preliminary investigations will change as you learn more. But at the end of the day, this is an officer's firsthand account of what was going on. So if this hasn't been corrected, some of the things that I see in here are the demeanor of the 15-year-old, the things that were found in his bedroom, talking about the magazine clips. I'm not talking about some of the other questionable things that were found. I'm talking about the physical, who did the crime.

That's what we want to know. Right. The other stuff is tough to stomach, may be difficult to hear, may be inaccurate, maybe misinformation, but we want to know who killed, if it was a murder, who killed mom and son, eight-year-old son, that were just did not have an opportunity, it seems with no struggle that we've gathered here. That's the things I take away is this individual who was in the home, who claims I didn't hear anything, that's the person that I see and say, well, I don't know of anyone else who was there. Was that the same person that was seen on the surveillance cameras from outside the house?

Is the misinformation in this case? We found a mask in that person's bedroom that we believe was the one that he was wearing outside that you see at 233 in the morning and pitch black from. you know, 100 feet away across the street. Yeah, there's a lot of questions here. But I think it goes back to that family member, unfortunately, that has to answer some of those questions. And that's where my head turns. Do you know where the 15-year-old is currently? We do not. We would like to know. We would like to know. And I know that there's the, you know, could it be with DCFS custody? Could it be with family? Is that person, you know, the comments on a lot of the posting since this came out is this 15-year-old, was he recently in school with my child, for example, as the commenter would say.

We don't know. And it's one of those many questions that I can imagine have been already asked to police. I physically didn't ask it, but my colleague did because I handed him this warrant and said, this is very interesting. And then it kind of spurred the stuff that you've seen come out from the Utah media market. He took his due diligence and went to reach out to police again and didn't get that answer. And I'm sure the questions were, where is this mentioned 15-year-old? So, again, this is a bizarre case.

We do know just last week or two weeks ago, investigators were back out there again. We had video of them in the garage of the home using some sort of analysis tool, not an investigator, not an attorney, just reporter here. But in the garage physically scanning. And we thought it was very interesting because you'd have to imagine. crime seems may have been compromised by now with family going in and out of the house and all these things. And now it's three months later. So there's a lot of wondering of what people have been the persons of interest over the last three months. We would like to at least know, is this 15 year old a person of interest or was he and then ruled out? I think that would

answer a lot of questions. That simple answer. Do we know anything a little bit more about the family, Jessica, Eli, friends, family members, talk. talking about them, what they were like in the community. Did they have any enemies, anything like that? Not that we've heard, and it's interesting that we haven't heard them, you know, maybe speak out because it is a family that had a separation between husband and wife and certain circumstances with children. There's always those family dynamics that were involved.

But at the same time, we haven't heard an aunt or an uncle come out and say, hey, this is what was the case about this family or this is the type of people that they were that we're talking about here. There was the initial funeral services and all of those things where family and friends were together. And I believe we were there as well, if I remember correct, again, it's now it's been almost three months. And unfortunately, everything else has just kind of started to come into play with all of these other cases that pop up. But at the end of it all, we still don't know who killed mom and son. And son was eight years old. I imagine that rock some people it's the same thing when any child is taken with no opportunity to succeed and and pave their

own path so it's disappointing and i feel for the family that they're seeing this coverage i feel for the daughter and i feel for a lot of the people here that would like the answers just some answers to have a better indication of what took place here and who may have done what took place so jesse it's one of those we're sitting on just kind of waiting to see will police say something. I hope they do. Just to be clear, this area, this neighborhood, this community, violent crime like this is a rarity. Yeah, I mean, Saratoga Springs is south of Salt Lake. You've got to go west. It's basically an area that has absolutely blown up in population with the rise in people coming to Utah. I'm not going to hide it. It's been very common. And

This area is new build homes. It's new communities with green space. It's families walking their dogs around. It's newer schools. I would say crime here is not something that is like you would see in other parts of the state or specifically maybe closer to Salt Lake proper. But crime has no boundaries, as you know. You've covered all sorts of crime in all sorts of places.

And just because it happened in this quaint, nice neighborhood, where it seemed like people just kind of want the best for each other doesn't mean it couldn't happen there. And it did. So I think it's one of those that if you stick the microphone in someone's face is the typical, how are you feeling? The answer is, oh, I didn't imagine this would happen in my neighborhood. It's the cliche answer. This could never happen in my neighborhood. Well, it's one of those places where I'm sure people didn't think this could happen here because of just the nice factor of the people and the neighborhood and the community. And that's why I feel for them, because I feel like communities like that, not acclimated to the potential

activity outside of their homes, I feel like they deserve a little bit more of an answer. And that's why we're advocating for them. We're advocating for the communities which we serve. And when this warrant comes out, it's new information for the communities in which we serve, trying to sift through it while reaching out to police to confirm and then kind of being met with this, that makes it more difficult because you want the people that live there that are this the family and ultimately the people that have followed this, you want them to have some answers and some closure. No, look, Brian, you and KUTV do amazing work. I want everybody to continue to follow your updates on this case because you're embedded into it. Hopefully we do get more

information. Hopefully we do get more answers. And while there may be sensitivities to this investigation that we're not privy to, I think you make a very fair and reasonable position and argument for needing more information in a case like this, particularly for the community and the family and friends of these victims. So I'll give you the final word, Brian, but I encourage everybody to continue your following your reporting on this. Thank you. Again, it's been a team effort at KUTV. It's been a lot of people who have kind of had their hands in this case, talking to people who live in the community, obtaining a lot of that video surveillance that obviously has also been handed over to police. Following up on this, being around, noticing when police are

back at the home, noticing that this investigation just as of a week or two is clearly not over if they were back out there reworking certain things. So again, you can find the updates on our website, KUTV.com. And it's one of those things we're always looking at. It's kind of on that list of we need more. And there's a bunch of cases like that in Utah. We need more. And there's a bunch of that. And I understand, as you mentioned, there's that delicacy between giving away too much information and giving away nothing. And we need at least a little bit more, I think, to satisfy the community members, maybe the family, and our reporting as well, because our job is to inform. And if we're met with no or no comment, it gets old after a while. And when you come

across a document like this, that has gobs of new information, I mean, many of which we had never heard after months of nothing, it definitely perks up the years a bit. Great work to you and your team. Thanks for having me on. Now, you would think this would be the end of the story. It is not because right after we finished this interview with Brian Schnee, we got an update we got to tell you about. The PIO, the public information officer from the Saratoga Springs Police Department, released the statement to us, provided information to us, kind of walked back the statement from the

assistant police chief. And this is what it says. There has been some confusion. What he was not trying to say was the information in the warrant. was incorrect. Some conclusions were being drawn by local media based off information they are getting in the warrants. And then through a phone call, this is what it was said. Warrants were made. Those warrants were sealed and given a 90-day ceiling on them. That 90-day ceiling expired, so that information is now out there. We really don't have anything else to say.

When asked if we could quote the warrants and about the legality of them, we were told they're totally legal. There were some specific media outlets saying certain things. things happen, saying things happened at times they didn't happen. Of course, we can't control interpretations of things and asked on whether there is a suspect or it's the 15-year-old or anyone else in custody. We were told everything is still the same. No one's in custody. Can't say if there's suspects. Don't have any comment outside of that. We are focusing on the investigation because that's what we feel is most important to make sure we are investigating and holding those responsible accountable.

There you go. We'll continue to keep a careful eye on it. It's all we have for you right now here on sidebar. Everybody, thank you so much for joining us. And as always, please subscribe on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you should get your podcasts. I'm Jesse Weber. I'll speak to you next time. right now on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.