Law&Crime Sidebar - Murdered Ex-GF's Eerie Voicemail Reveals Shocking Details About 'Stalker' Trooper

Episode Date: August 25, 2025

Dr. Lauren Semanchik left a chilling voicemail for police months before her murder, begging for help against her ex-boyfriend, a New Jersey State Trooper. Her call was never returned. Now, newly released 911 calls and a looming lawsuit shed light on a tragedy her family insists could have been prevented. Law&Crime’s Jesse Weber examines the latest details with New Jersey police captain Tom Rizzo.PLEASE SUPPORT THE SHOW: Download the FREE Upside App at https://upside.app.link/sidebar to get an extra 25 cents back for every gallon on your first tank of gas.HOST:Jesse Weber: https://twitter.com/jessecordweberLAW&CRIME SIDEBAR PRODUCTION:YouTube Management - Bobby SzokeVideo Editing - Michael Deininger, Christina O'Shea & Jay CruzScript Writing & Producing - Savannah Williamson & Juliana BattagliaGuest Booking - Alyssa Fisher & Diane KayeSocial Media Management - Vanessa BeinSTAY UP-TO-DATE WITH THE LAW&CRIME NETWORK:Watch Law&Crime Network on YouTubeTV: https://bit.ly/3td2e3yWhere To Watch Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3akxLK5Sign Up For Law&Crime's Daily Newsletter: https://bit.ly/LawandCrimeNewsletterRead Fascinating Articles From Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3td2IqoLAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandcrime/Twitter: https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetworkFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawandcrimeTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lawandcrimenetworkTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lawandcrimeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can binge all episodes of this Law and Crimes series ad-free right now. Join Wondry Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Hi there. My name is Lauren Samancheck. I was looking to file a police report or potentially even a restraining order against my ex-boyfriend who he's also a state trooper, so I'm especially uncomfortable. That was Dr. Lauren Semenchek back in May, leaving a message for police, asking for help against her ex-boyfriend, a New Jersey state trooper. Her call was apparently never returned,

and just weeks later, Lauren, and her new boyfriend, Tyler Webb, were gunned down outside of her Franklin Township home. And now, newly released 911 calls from neighbors, and a looming lawsuit are shedding light on a tragedy that her family insists could have been prevented. We are going to break it all down with New Jersey Police Captain Tom Rizzo. Welcome to Sidebar, presented by Law and Crime. I'm Jesse Weber.

All right, we got to talk about this. We got to talk about this latest development in the tragic case of Dr. Lauren Semincheck. And it comes from a chilling voicemail that she left with police. And it's one that her family says was never returned. In that message recorded on May 20, 2025, the 33-year-old veterinarians sounded both calm and deeply uneasy as she tried to take steps to protect herself from her ex-boyfriend. New Jersey State Trooper Ricardo Santos. I was looking to file a police report or potentially even a restraining order against my ex-boyfriend,

who he's also a state trooper, so I'm especially uncomfortable. I just stopped in the office, but nobody was available. And what makes that so chilling is that less than three months later, Semincheck and her new love interest, her boyfriend, 29-year-old Tyler Webb, were shockingly gunned down outside of her. her home. And what's even more harrowing, neighbors apparently did hear the shots and the screams the night she was killed. Multiple 911 calls came in from Upper Kingtown Road in Franklin Township. My boyfriend and I just heard something very strange. We heard gunshots and also screaming. Yeah, no, it was very loud. It was a screaming that made me a little nervous. Now, police did respond,

but the thing about that is, record show, they appreciate. He apparently drove past Semincheck's house without stopping, never locating the source of the noise. And by the next morning, it was Lauren's father who discovered the bodies of his daughter and Tyler. This is according to Lauren's sister, and they were both found outside with Tyler on the back porch. Now, her family is planning on suing. At a press conference on August 21st, Attorney David Mazie announced legal action against the New Jersey State Police, as well as the Franklin and Washington Township Police Departments, accusing them of ignoring red flags and failing to act when Semincheck begged for help.

He told the media that a notice was filed with the intention to file a formal lawsuit, pointing to state directives that require when an officer is accused in a domestic violence case that internal affairs has to be notified immediately and that the officer's weapons have to be seized. But according to Attorney Maisie, he says none of that happened. And we're going to dive deeper into the details of the lawsuit and the tragic final moments of Lauren's life when neighbors call police and what. what she specifically said in her May 20th voicemail.

But first, to really understand how we got here, we have to rewind about a year before these killings, back to the fall of 2024. Why? Because in September, this is per Lauren's family, that is when she ended her relationship with Lieutenant Ricardo Santos, a veteran trooper who had once served, by the way,

on New Jersey Governor Phil Murphy's security detail. And reportedly, Santos didn't take this well at all. Family, friends say that he began. stalking and harassing Lauren in the months after the breakup. Her older sister, Deanna, told Pix 11 news that when Lauren blocked his number, these calls would keep coming in from restricted numbers. She also, per her family, believed that he was following her, prompting her to place cameras in her car.

By October, we have these text messages we got to talk about, where she was already threatening to get a restraining order if Santos didn't stop. These messages that were obtained by the New York. post reportedly show these communications between the two. And we couldn't independently verify, but based on the reporting, this is what it says. They include exchanges like Santos saying, so please stop making this about me being again a piece of trash in some level or how you're going to now threaten me with authorities. I do not even know how to take that from you. Lauren responds, I feel threatened. I am a single female who recently had water in her gas tank,

a recording device in my room. And now this, Santos says, if you ever really want to, to talk about it. We can just own it and stop making me out to be a piece of garbage. Lauren apparently responds, I'm done communicating with you. If you continue to either reach out to me or invade my privacy in any way, I will be getting a restraining order. Santos apparently responds, take care, Lauren, hope you nothing but the best. A good person, you are not. Now, by early 2025, her concern had deepened, to say the least. She even confided in a female colleague of Santos telling her about Santos' erratic behavior, though it's kind of unclear what came of that.

And then came May. On May 19th, Lauren's car was reportedly vandalized while she was at work, keyed across the side. So she apparently goes to the Washington Township Police in Morris County to file a report, and according to the report that was reviewed by the New York Post, officers there called Santos directly, warning him to stay away from her. He apparently denied involvement, but agreed not to contact her. And then the very next day, May 20th, according to Lauren's own words in that haunting voicemail, she drove to Franklin Township Police in Hunterdon County, where she lived, hoping to take stronger action.

She asked about filing a restraining order, but was told no officer was available. So instead, she was handed a phone number, which again led to this now infamous voicemail that she left that afternoon. Hi there, my name is Lauren Samancheck and I live at Upper Kingtown Road in Pitsown, New Jersey. I was looking to file a police report or potentially even a restraining order against my ex-boyfriend who has been harassing me. He placed recording devices in my home, has continued to text me and call me. And then I just came out last night from work and my car had been keyed and I have no idea who did it. but I don't have anybody else in my life with any animosity. He's also a state trooper, so I'm especially uncomfortable.

I just stopped in the office, but nobody was available, so the girl at the front desk can me this number. If you could give me a call back, and you have a moment, that would be great. My phone number is, thank you. Now, by the way, we definitely wanted to bring you this story. There are so many important points to address here, and I want to thank our sponsor Upside for their support in introducing this episode for you, because upside is great. It is a free app that gets you cash back when you buy Daily Essential.

So I pump my gas, I can use Upside. I go out to lunch, I can use Upside. It maybe get something at a convenience store, I can use Upside. And why not I got cashback when I do all these things, right? This is actual real cashback. It's money that appears in your Upside app that you transfer right into your bank account. So once you have the free Upside app, you claim an offer for whatever you're buying an Upside. You pay as usual using a debit or credit card. You follow the steps on the app, you get paid. So to find out how much you can earn, click the link in the description to download Upside or scan the QR code on screen, but make sure to use our promo code sidebar because you'll get an extra 25 cents back

on every gallon on your first tank of gas. And that voicemail was apparently never returned. That's the allegation. By the start of the summer, Lauren began dating Tyler, again, this 29-year-old mechanic, volunteer firefighter, but that all came to a tragic end on August 1st, and we're going to get into all that. But to help me break this down, I want to bring on a special guest. I want to bring on Captain Tom Rizzo of the Howell Township Police Department. Thank you so much for coming on. Tom, having heard Lauren's voicemail from a policing perspective, how should that call have been handled? Well, let's first even go before that, you know, there's a lot of these places that believe it or not, and I'll never wrap my head around this, that don't offer, and it's

because of shared services, it's because of regionalization, that they don't offer, you know, which I think should be, you know, a prerequisite of a one-on-one, some type of level of service. So, you know, you have somebody who's not a police officer in most of these situations who say, okay, how can we help you? Oh, this is what I'm looking to file a report. I'm looking to speak with an officer. A lot of them are, you know, somewhat relayed to a call center and then wait for a call back. I just, I think so much can fall through the cracks with that.

So first, I can't believe that was. the case that here's somebody wanting to you know report or see guidance or seek assistance about a potential domestic violence incident and they're told you know hey leave a message i just that alone is what's bothered me but you know even before these other caveats but to answer your question somebody calling saying hey i'm being this i'm being that it's a domestic situation that's got to be an immediate response that can't be a hey well you know we'll we'll we'll call you a few days later, that should have never been the case. Explain to me what a rationale could be.

If it's true, that no one ever called back, how is that possible? I don't have a rationale. And what I'm saying is, is believe it or not, and this is what bothers me. There shouldn't be a scenario where there aren't resources. Now listen, some places are different than others, and they have skeleton crews that are trying to cover a large geographical area and we can go into you know those types of what ifs but to go without a call back within a reasonable amount of time and i'm saying within that shift of somebody i can't give you a rationale should this have triggered uh an immediate

internal affairs investigation i mean when you're talking about a law enforcement officer that can be complicated, right? It's not just a report about being threatened by John Smith, but a member of law enforcement. How complicated is that? Does it automatically trigger internal affairs? How does it work? And I've made this point before. It's actually, and I understand how people feel about this, but if you took the same scenario of a civilian who is being accused of, let's just say for hypothetical harassment and you take that same scenario but the accused as a law enforcement officer. Yeah, there's more that gets done because it's a law enforcement officer. What do I mean? Departmentally, there has to be an immediate notification in who's ever taking the report

to a supervisor officer of, hey, we're taking a report right now and it involves a police officer. So that's internally. Then there's an immediate notification to the employing agency of the accused. Now, due process is important, not just for, you know, police, but for people. So if there's, you know, the scenario about the keying of the car, she's reporting it. And to her, she's say, look, I know it's this guy because in her heart, that's who she believes it to be. And very well, probably it was, who knows, right? But that's where, regardless, if it's a police officer or not, there has to be an investigation that ensues as to, you know, develop, is it or is it not?

But regardless, the accusation of a domestic violence incident, and there's a long list of what those are considered, triggers immediate notifications inside the reporting agency and to the agency that employs the suspect officer. Absolutely. What's crazy is she tried to do the right thing, right? She tried to use the system to help her, which is just so distressing and so upsetting about this. By the way, side note, because we're going to get into this a little bit more, do officers typically, when you think about what happened here, do officers typically get periodic psychological examinations? I mean, being on the job, this is kind of a situation where it doesn't seem it was related per se to what his work duties were, but you got to unpack what happened here. And I did make me wonder, do officers typically get periodic psychological evaluations? You know, that's my wheelhouse. That's my passion about mental health resilience. And I am a very outspoken critic of, you know, how the system works. We get, you're required to do that upon initial onboarding and hiring. Some places do it when it comes to time for promotion. Others will do it when they triggered, when they're triggered by critical incidents. Others could be triggered by the early warning system when things uncover themselves. And again, a substance abuse problem or, you know, some type of, there's, you know, extended absenteeism or, you know, some type of maybe they're having an incident at home. There's trigger events that can, but there's no boilerplate as to, you know, as far as requirement, except if there's a hiring, some places of promotion, or if there was a critical incident and or a disarming of somebody. So they're not supposed to be rearmed, and that could be for a laundry list of reasons, until they're seen by somebody for what we call fitness for duty evaluations.

So let me unpack a little bit what happened on that day. So according to police, on the afternoon of August 1st, Lauren left work at around 5.25 p.m. Surveillance footage from her in-car camera show to white Mercedes belonging to Santos following her. And this is before hiding out in the woods just near her. house. Just before 7 p.m., Tyler Webb arrives at the house, her house. Minutes later, that is when the neighbors heard it, the gunfire, the screams, and then the silence. Multiple 911 calls poured in that night. Neighbors reporting exactly what they had heard, gunshots and screaming, echoing through this quiet street. And for the first time, we can hear those calls.

I don't know if I'm watching too many movies or what, but, you know, my boyfriend and I just heard something very strange we heard gunshots and also screaming and the screaming sounded you know pretty close you know and then you know when it stopped the last shot it was quiet and then we didn't i thought it was kids maybe laughing or something i couldn't tell we had music going okay and yeah anyway we have um we have patrol responding up to the area to check it out okay and again i hope i'm not bothering anybody but it just, it just, it was too weird. Franklin, attention police.

Hi, I'm sorry. We don't typically do this, but we just heard something that sounded really strange. Over Upper King Town Road area? There were about seven-ish gunshots. We thought we heard some screaming and then the noises shot. Hello? Hello? Hello? Yeah, Upper King Town Road area.

We're on White Bridge Road. Okay, yeah, we have a report of that, yeah. Okay. Yeah, it was about five-ish minutes ago, and it just sounded really weird, so we felt like we had to say something. Yeah, I have an officer on his way to hear you. Okay. 9-1-1, where's the emergency? It's not actually on this property, but I just heard a bunch of gunshots, because it sounded very loud.

Okay, and what's that? It's not on this property. I just heard it from this property, and I heard some screaming. Like, I'm up on the hill, so it sounded like... down the hill and maybe... How many little of them did you hear? Five or six? Just around about five to six?

Yeah. Yeah, no, it was very loud. I mean, but sound really carries here. Yeah, yeah. All right, I'll send push hole out to the area. If anything, if it continues to happen, just give us a call back, but I got them going your way. Okay, I haven't heard anything since.

It's the streaming that made me a little nervous. But it was right before you called, correct? It was, yeah. Okay. All right, not a problem. I'll send them someone out. Okay. Thanks. Bye. Bye.

Now, police, again, they responded to that area. As I mentioned before, they apparently never stopped at Lauren's house. This patrol car drove by, kept going. And by the next morning, that is when Lauren's father made the discovery of the bodies. And not long after, Santos himself was found inside of his Mercedes SUV, dead from a self-inflicted gunshot wound. Tom, back to you. You have these multiple 911 calls, very, very,

very upsetting to hear. And this idea that you have an officer or a patrol car driving past and never stopping, what happened? So, you know, again, this is what frustrates me because this people like you said, they tried to use the system. One of the systems would be calling 911 to report something. And what do people expect when they do that? For the report to be, you know, taken and considered and investigated. Now, if you notice where they say, you know, look, we don't know, could have been kids, could have been fireworks. Does that happen? Sure. When you add on screaming, when you add on multiple calls, at the very least, I don't have a problem with doing a drive by the area. That would be protocol, right? Because you want to use all of your senses as the responding

officer to see. Maybe let me listen for myself. Now, is there anything that happened after that? Do you now have another 911 call of somebody injured? You know, so you have to take all that into account. Once you're done doing that and none of that happened, at the very least, it should have been, all right, who's the caller? Right? Let me now go talk to the caller because we've all, as kids, we all played the telephone game. So who knows what the original caller to the call taker,

and then what was related to the officer? There's always going to be information that was missed along the way that the officer himself or herself would want to hear directly from the caller, or in this case, multiple callers. And that would have at least pointed the officer to responding officer toward direction of her home. Now, would he have been able to save either of them? You know, we'll never know. But at the very least, at the very least, that would have prevented this girl's poor father from then having to come a day later and discover what he did. And these non-worn calls are so important because if there was,

actually a trial talk about reporting in real time right gives everybody a time of this incident happening time of death uh things of that nature i'm just thinking from an evidentiary point of view but do you have questions here if this is true and you have a patrol car that drove by i never stopped do you have questions about this department's training staffing judgment what would you like to know i don't know where to begin and where to end um you know because i'm trying to look at this not just as a police officer as a person. And I don't sit top, you know, a hill that lives in, you know, a house without mistakes. So I'll never sit there and point the finger and say, I'm saying what I'm saying

or asking what I'm asking because I'm perfect. But no, I cannot fathom. I can't understand, like I told you before, in 2025, the year 2025, how this is the best we can do. I just can't accept that. I can't because this is why now imagine what it takes is the courage for this young lady to even have to walk into a police department to say hey I'm reporting this and he's a police officer it's going to be a formidable and an overwhelming act in and in of itself so if at the very least we want to sit there and make people have this connection with us have them have faith in us that we're going to do the right thing and then we're going to take it you know again I still can't believe that, you know, that it wasn't taken as seriously as it should have for a lot of reasons. And, and for me, this pains me to see these events happen because I do believe that some things in this unfortunate world and circumstances could have been avoided.

So, as you can imagine, in the days that followed, the fallout spread quite quickly, the Hunterdon County Prosecutor's Office. They seized control of the Franklin Township's Police Department. They suspended the chief and a sergeant, citing, quote, serious concerns about how the department had handled Lauren's pleas for help. And before even get into the, you know, the threat of this lawsuit, I mean, that is unusual, Tom, right? Am I wrong? Have you seen this happen before? Well, I have. This quickly is an anomaly. So normally when you see takeovers or supersessions of departments by a higher authority. So in this case, the municipal agency being super.

preceded by the prosecutor's office, that's the normal hierarchy. There's been ones that even that step has been jumped and they've been taken over by the Attorney General's office. So have I seen it happen? Yes. This quickly, based upon a singular incident, is an anomaly. So you know damn well. There's some significant serious concerns. Again, though, where I say I can't believe in 2025, I'm also not ignorant. Some of these rural, isolated places who do do maintain a single department that that's why you know you'll see a lot of county agencies who police municipalities as well because the call volume you know or the the municipal base let's say the demographics they don't support having an individual agency it wouldn't make sense it wouldn't

be feasible right because how do you staff that where you don't have you know the volume to basically you know um rationalize having it so that's why you'll have these regional places. You know, there's pros and cons to it. But if at the very least, if you can't sit there and police something like this, then I don't know what you were doing to begin with. So I think the prosecutor's office, no doubt, probably looked at this and see how egregious it is. But then in addition, or probably scratching their heads saying, oh, my God, you know, we hope we don't uncover more. You would have known, obviously, something that would be of this, such a salacious story, but I think they're looking at it and say, my goodness, I wonder what other services

were discarded. And now comes the threat of a lawsuit from the families who say that Lauren and Tyler, you know, might have to, they might still be alive if police had followed their own rules. The attorney David Masey laid out the allegations clearly. No one called her back. Franklin Township Police Department did absolutely nothing after having this complaint. now the state of new jersey attorney general law enforcement directors require that a police department once there is an allegation of abuse against a police officer to take action these are the actual a portion of the requirements it says whenever an officer is involved in domestic violence incident, either as an alleged

perpetrator or as a victim, internal affairs must be promptly notified where the officer, or was the alleged perpetrator, investigating officers must, must, seize their service weapon or any other weapon possessed

as mandated by AG, meaning the Attorney General Directives, 2002, 2003, and 2004. So, as soon as this complaint was made, the Franklin Township Police Department had an absolute obligation to contact the state police. And at that point, the state police would be obligated to take control and to make sure that all revolvers, all service weapons, any other firearms

that were licensed to Trooper Santos would be removed and that we put on administrative leave and that they would do an investigation. Nothing was done here. Ladies and gentlemen, there's something called the Blue Wall of Silence. Blue Wall of Silence is where police officers protect their own. Even when there's allegations against one of them, they look the other way. And that's what happened here. We will be filing a lawsuit against the Franklin Township Police Department, the New Jersey State Police, and others on behalf of Lauren and Tyler.

We will hold, at the end of the day, we will hold Franklin Township Police Department liable for its value to act. We will get to the bottom of why no one at the state police acted to take Santos' guns. We will get to the bottom of why police officers that evening failed to even come into Lauren's home to investigate the screams and the gunshots. and we will uncover whether the police in New Jersey have been held to a different standard when there are domestic violence complaints lodged against them and whether there is a cover-up in this and other cases. We will do this and more to achieve justice

for Lawrence Samancheck, for Tyler Webb, and for their families. So Tom, the family's lawsuit is going to claim, you know, state directives require weapons be seized immediately when a trooper is accused in a domestic violence case. You're going to be hearing this idea of whether this is a matter of negligence by individual officers, whether there is a broader reluctance to act against fellow law enforcement, talking about potential red flags. What do you make of this lawsuit? What do you think is going to come out of this lawsuit? And do you agree with a potential lawsuit of this nature um all right so let's unpack that number one uh one thing i would counter is no there's not an

automatic disarming whether it's a police officer or a civilian there has to be some type of indication so for instance domestic violence you know covers a wide range of behaviors and offenses not all of them have to do with it that not all of them would rise to the level of if a person is in possession of a weapon lawfully of course that it means the seizure of it so no that's That's not an automatic, and it has nothing to do with whether it's a police officer or a person. So let's look at that number one. Now, for the actions that are being alleged of this police officer, whether police officer or a person, would there have been a seizure of weapons based upon it seems as if escalating acts, stalking,

invasion of privacy, harassment, criminal, like we can keep going with that terroristic threats, maybe, so sure. Now, there's where they talk about the triggers. they're referring to the early warning system what we have here in new jersey and it's covered in two facets you have within internal affairs there's guidelines on how to deal with police officers there's specific guidelines now in addition to that there's early warning mechanisms internally that if a police officer shows certain symptoms certain signs is involved in certain things that triggers a monitoring and the monitoring could rise to the level of where

Without domestic violence, we're going to disarm him or her. Again, I give you this hypothetical. Let's say there was a substance problem. Let's say there was some type of mental health issue, non-domestic related. That could trigger what we call a conditional disarming. And the conditions would be treatment, fit for duty, whatever the case. When we start to see progress, they can then conditionally rearm. And that means in some situations, hey, you're allowed to.

to carry your duty weapon while you're working. You're not allowed to be in position of personally owned firearms. So there's a lot of layers to that. So I think the lawsuit, what they're going to do is look into, you know, hey, was there these things that should have triggered these mechanisms that were never employed? I think that's an automatic. I think the lawsuit is definitely going to look into and corroborate, you know, what exactly did she convey as these reports? You know, so did she just look for guidance or did she make the allegation? If she made the allegations of everything I read, yeah, that would have triggered all of these things to happen. So if they didn't, there's going to be a lot of answering as to how, was it negligible?

I don't, you know, I've seen the insinuation and the implants of this whole, you know, the police taking care of the police and the blue wall thing. And again, I'm prepared to have stones thrown at me for this. the only reason why I don't in my heart believe that that's appropriate here is because you look at what we just talked about the 911 calls it's no indication of hey and it's a police officer there's no mention of that it's just hey we hear gunshots and we hear screaming and they didn't even follow up on that so I think that there was negligence here you know I think the other stuff that the family has every right to feel I think would you know require a bit more peeling back some of of the layers to see if that was the case here. No, that's a good point. That's a good point about those 911 phone calls. Look, hopefully we get a little bit more information, a little bit more answers as a result of this.

And we'll see if the lawsuit does progress. But I will say this much, bringing you back to the victims here, because despite these horrific, horrific circumstances surrounding their deaths, you have friends and family who are doing their best to grieve and remember Lauren and Tyler for the lives that they lived. You know, Lauren Semincheck's obituary captures her spirit, reading in part. She was selfless and compassionate. Her inner peace came from spending time with her friends and family.

Lauren had a non-judgmental soul and an acceptance of one and all. Tyler Webb's obituary reflects the same kind of warmth. Part of that reads, Tyler found true happiness in just being with people. He was always helping anyone in need, and through his kindness, he has touched countless lives and brought many groups of strangers together to become friends. just a really, really sad case. Captain Tom Rizzo, thank you so much for taking the time. Appreciate it. It's a pleasure and an honor. Thank you so much. And that's all we have for you right now here on Sidebar, everybody. Thank you so much for joining us.

And as always, please subscribe on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you should get your podcasts. I'm Jesse Weber. I'll speak to you next time. You can binge all episodes of this long crime series, ad free right now on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.