Law&Crime Sidebar - ‘No Way to Stop It’: 4 Americans Abducted, 2 Killed Amid Deadly Cartel Shootout in Mexico

Episode Date: March 7, 2023

Four American citizens on their way to Matamoros, Mexico found themselves amid a shootout between rival cartels when they were taken against their will. The two survivors told authorities the group was surrounded and abducted after venturing into the fight. Authorities found the four victims, two of them deceased, in a wooden shack guarded by a man on Tuesday. The Law&Crime Network’s Jesse Weber breaks it all down with Steve Murphy and Javier Peña, the DEA agents who caught notorious drug trafficker Pablo Escobar.PLEASE SUPPORT THE SHOW:Save 10% on your entire POM Pepper Spray order by using code LAWCRIME10 at http://bit.ly/3IGNFxv LAW&CRIME SIDEBAR PRODUCTION:YouTube Management - Bobby SzokePodcasting - Sam GoldbergWriting & Video Editing - Michael DeiningerGuest Booking - Alyssa FisherSocial Media Management - Vanessa Bein & Kiera BronsonSUBSCRIBE TO OUR OTHER PODCASTS:Court JunkieObjectionsThey Walk Among AmericaCoptales and CocktailsThe Disturbing TruthSpeaking FreelyLAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandcrime/Twitter: https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetworkFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawandcrimeTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lawandcrimenetworkTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lawandcrimeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wonderly Plus subscribers can binge all episodes of this Law and Crimes series ad-free right now. Join Wonderly Plus in the Wondery app Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Agent Nate Russo returns in Oracle 3, Murder at the Grandview, the latest installment of the gripping Audible Original series. When a reunion at an abandoned island hotel turns deadly, Russo must untangle accident from murder. But beware, something sinister lurks in the grand. View Shadows. Joshua Jackson delivers a bone-chilling performance in this supernatural thriller that

will keep you on the edge of your seat. Don't let your fears take hold of you as you dive into this addictive series. Love thrillers with a paranormal twist? The entire Oracle trilogy is available on Audible. Listen now on Audible. We get into the latest regarding the four kidnapped Americans in Mexico with legendary DEA agents Javier Peña and Steve Murphy, the men who brought down Pablo Escobar. Welcome to Sidebar, presented by Law and Crime. I'm Jesse Weber. I have covered a lot of stories at Law and Crime, and if there's one thing I can tell you, you got to stay safe. And that is where Palm Pepper Spray can really help. This is a discreet but powerful personal defense tool. Palm Pepper Spray shoots up to 12 feet using the

strongest legal formula of pepper spray. Super safe, easy to use, ready to fire. All you got to do is just point and spray. And here's the best part. We have a promo code for you. That's right. Save 10% by using promo code law crime 10 at palm pepper spray.com. And always remember to call 911 if you see someone in trouble. We want to get into this story out of Mexico.

Several days ago, four Americans appeared to be kidnapped by what is believed to be drug cartel members. This is a story that has gained national attention. It's brought the conversation back to all the violence that we're seeing in that region of the world. And literally, as we were about to come on. air and discuss the fate of these missing Americans, it has come to our attention that two of the four individuals have been found dead and the other two have been found alive with one with

apparent wounds. This coming from Tamalipas governor, America via real. Again, this is a developing story so the details could change once this ultimately airs. But we are reporting everything that we know at the time of this recording. The four Americans were identified as Zendell Brown, Eric James Williams, Latavia Taye McGee, and Shaid Woodard. Now, it's being reported that sadly Woodard and Brown were found dead, while McGee and Williams have survived and are back in the United States. Apparently, Washington was seeking a tummy tuck surgery in Mexico. The four apparently drove in a white minivan with North Carolina plates into Matamoros, Tamalipas, Mexico.

This is less than five miles away from Brownsville, Texas. So when we talk about how close this was to the United States, you can kind of see that. It's been reported that the cartel gunmen opened fire, kidnapped these four people, and one Mexican citizen was killed in the process, although we're not sure if she was killed in the gunfight or as part of this. It is being reported also that this might be a case of mistaken identity, namely that the cartel were thinking these were Haitian drug smugglers. Now, there is a video circulating online of armed men moving people into a white van. And it seems to match the description of the incident. It hasn't been confirmed, though, that these were the four missing Americans or the

current, the found Americans. But we're going to play this video for you nonetheless. You see one woman pushed into the vehicle. Two limp people are dragged as well. It's just really horrifying to watch this. Now, the FBI was offering a $50,000 reward for the American safe return and the arrest of the gunmen involved. A lot to talk about here.

We want to get into these latest developments. So I want to bring in two very special guests who can address this situation. And we're also going to get more into the current cartel situation as well. I want to bring on DEA special agents, Steve Murphy and Javier Pena. These are the men who took down Pablo Escobar. Their stories were featured in the hit show Narcos. So for any of Narcos fans, you know who I'm talking about right now. You can check them out at their website, www.d.d.orgos.com.

Then there's their book, Manhunters, How We Took Down Pablo Escobar. Autographed, personalized copies can be ordered through the website. They also have a worldwide keynote speaking tour where they talk more about the true story regarding the downfall of Pablo Escobar. And in fact, it's their eighth year doing this. So you can check them out there. And you can also check them out on their weekly True Crime podcast, Game of Crimes. Gentlemen, it is great to have you both here.

And thank you so much for taking the time. Thank you, Jesse. We appreciate you having us on. I'd like to get your immediate reaction to this. I mean, we have these Americans who were taken hostage close to Brownsville, Texas. Javier, I'll start with you. What's your reaction to what we just heard, this breaking news, the tragic news about these four Americans? You know what, just it is a tragedy.

And first of all, you know, we feel for the families, you know, the families and they're suffering, the two persons that are alive right now. You know what? I'm going to have to say it's a common occurrence right now. I'm from the border area. I've worked the Southwest border for a long time. I have a lot of friends in law enforcement. And this situation is getting more common every day where people go. They cross.

And I hear stories where they don't come back. They're stopped on the roadway for money. They don't have money. They kill them. They are stopped for the express kidnappings where someone will, it's just within an announcement. We need $10,000, $15,000 wired. I just heard an incident where a young, well, teenager, bought a new truck,

went into Nuevo Redo to celebrate. He's at a restaurant celebrating. Traffickers come in and says, hey, our boss likes your truck. So either give us your truck or we take your life. He also gave him the truck. But it's getting to be a common occurrence, people crossing to Mexico, especially around this busy border areas, the Nueval Regal, the Matamoros, the Juarez in El Paso, and they're targeting this people.

Now, as you say, there's a video. And I, you know, I think this people were getting targeted, but it could be a targeting by mistake. They thought there were other people. But, but again, to kill and kidnap this two persons, it's just, it's out of control in Mexico right now. I want to get into more of the current situation there. what this means overall. But Steve, going back to this, I have to tell you, it seems almost a miracle that two people survived, right? I mean, in general, this was breaking news. I was going to talk to you, gentlemen, about what the cooperation between the United States government and

Mexican authorities are going to be. Steve, are you surprised that we have two people who have survived this? I mean, walk me through what you think was happening behind the scenes between both governments. Well, as far as the act itself, it's obvious from the video that these guys don't hesitate to pull the trigger for nothing. You know, the fact that three were shot, three of the four were shot, just trying to get them stopped. It was, it's almost indicative that they wanted to kill everybody. I think it's a miracle that the female in the group was not injured. And you can see in the video, one individual, if they drug over the pickup truck, tried to raise his head a little bit. So, you know, we're not sure if he's one of the deceased or if he's still

the wounded person that was down there. What really struck me about that video is there was no sense of urgency for them to gather up those people and get away. They were taking their time. You didn't see anybody standing around and looking around like to see if anybody's responding. You can see other traffic driving right by them. I mean, almost within touching distance of those vehicles they were in, which is just, it just shows you how it really is down there. They control what's going on down there. I'm sure that the Mexican police and Mexican military will respond, but I'm not sure as urgently as maybe we would here in the United States. I mean, we've seen that most times they're outgunned. They're overpowered by the weaponry that the bad guys have. The fact that

the United States is working with Mexico, I'd love to hear that. Little hesitant to believe that 100% because we know that President Lopez Ovidor is somewhat reluctant to take on the criminal groups there, especially the drug cartels. Let's talk about that, Javier. because there were reports of corruption in the Mexican police department. And, you know, I couldn't tell from our initial reporting, again, at the time of this reporting, if anybody was arrested or any of the people who were involved in this were taken down, were they arrested, where they killed any of the armed gunmen, if they were not, how much do you think there's going to be a push to try to figure out who did this?

And if you can also speak to what Steve was alluding to as well, when you look at the video, they didn't feel the heat on them, right? And so I thought that was a really interesting observation. Walk us through what the, if there are the levels of corruption that might be in that area. Well, you know what? The corruption is everything right now in Mexico. We know about it. And I just got to preface it, you know, what, a couple of weeks ago, the leading federal guy in charge of the police was found guilty of corruption.

And this guy was the leader in New York City in Hennaro Garcia-Luna. So that tells us during the trial that the corruption is. from the top all the way down. It's endemic. It's been around since I remember, you know, being a young agent going to work in Mexico. So it's, they pay off the police, you know, they'll pay off whoever they can. And it's just, it's been a problem. It always has been a problem. Now, as far as the kidnappings, and you know what? One thing that I think helped is the media coverage where you have the president of Mexico going on on TV. So this traffickers know, oh, wow, we think we screwed up here by killing, kidnapping, attempting, whether it was a

mistake, whether it was not a mistake, it was targeting. But I think the media coverage has helped that this traffickers know, wow, we're not going to be able to just dump the body the body somewhere, burn them, you know, bury them, because they're going to be honest. So it's, Like I said, that's a good thing that the media coverage was there. And, you know, the cooperation, as Steve alluded to, it's been bad. And I don't think the cooperation is there right now. They're trying to say it is, and I'll be honest. You know, I talk to people.

You know, they're still, the cooperation is not there right now. I'm surprised. I'm gladly, I'm happily surprised that they did find, you know, the two people. at least, you know, we have a couple of bodies left, but again, you know, they've paid off whoever they can and if they don't abide, what happens to them, law enforcement? They get killed and we know that the media also, a lot of times the media in Mexico is afraid to report this because of retribution. Right. And so just to follow up that real quick, Javier, you don't think, you think this

might be the end of the story in terms of finding out who did this. We might not see any developments. Is that a possibility? That's a possibility, but I think there's too much coverage. There's too much priority that they're going to have to come up with something and say, we've captured them, we've arrested them, we killed the perpetrators because the spotlight right now is on Mexico. As you know, we're hearing from politicians. So they're going to have to do something, yes. Okay. Well, Steve, let's go back to this. These were four individuals who seemingly took this trip to try to get health care, cheap. health care in Mexico. We know that the U.S. State Department has issued a level four do not travel advisory warning against going into that area. It seems that there was a knowledge of what was going on there, but how often do we see Americans not listening to that going in there for whatever reason? I mean, is there any way that we can prevent this from happening in the future? And we'll

talk about whether or not the violence will expand out of the region. But for now, what else can be done to prevent people from going there. Wow. You know, I wish I had that answer, Jesse, just to save American lives. You know, I mean, one of the biggest concerns right now is spring break. You know, how many college students are going to go to that, what's that beach resort? I think they refer to it as Baghdad Beach down there in Tamalipas, right across the border. You know, people need to take it seriously.

The State Department doesn't issue those level four warnings frivolously. I mean, they'll do everything they can to not issue it because they want to develop relations with the countries that that affects. And I mean, that's just their diplomatic mission. Here's one of the big concerns that Harvey and I have just recently discovered through a friend of ours is, you know, we're all familiar with the counterfeit medications that the Mexican cartels send up to the United States that contain fentanyl, right? And we're seeing hundreds of thousands of deaths because of this. Well, now here's the latest trend. I'm not sure that you've even heard about, Jesse. What the cartel's doing down there are doing down there now is the drug

stores that Americans frequent to go down and get cheaper prescriptions or even get medications that do not require a prescription in Mexico that do in the United States, they're replacing legitimate meds with counterfeit meds that contain fentanyl to continue killing the people that come down there and get it. That's a whole new trend that's just come out recently. So Hover and I are big proponents of education, and that's informing everybody, especially our children, right? But, I mean, we're seeing people still going down there and they went down for a presumably innocent reason and whether it was mistaken identity or what. I mean, you come in in a minivan with North Carolina tags, you stick out like a sore thumb, right?

I really wish there was a way we could get the word to all Americans and say, just stop it, stop it until this violence stops along the border and into Mexico against American citizens, there's no way to stop it that I can think of right now. Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned that. You know, there's one thing about selling toxic drugs into the United States that harms and kills people, but people going to an area, presumably to get cheaper medication, not knowing that that itself is dangerous and toxic. That's a whole different area. And Steve, I want to ask, I want to ask both of you guys. I'll start with you, Steve.

So I don't know if you guys saw this, but former Attorney General Bill Barr, he penned an op-ed in the Wall Street Journal. And he basically said that the cartels need to be treated like Islamic terrorist groups. And he said that the Mexican government is like the fifth hostage, quote, the Mexican government is being held hostage by tens of thousands of paramilitary members of terrorist organizations that effectively control Mexico. It's pretty close at this stage to a failed narco state. They can use violence and oceans of cash to corrupt the government. The government has no will. It doesn't have the ability to deal with the cartels. And he went on to say that Americans killed by Mexican traffic drugs is almost the same thing as the amount of servicemen we lost in World War II.

I wanted to get your thoughts on that. Well, I have to say I do agree with his assessment. I think we should designate the Mexican drug cartels as terrorist organizations, identified terrorist organizations, and they should be treated with the same sanctions that we would impose on any terrorist organization worldwide. It's that last question about should we go in and do something? I would love to. But you have to keep in mind, you're invading a sovereign country. Now, we had, you know, back in our day, when we were after Pablo Escobar, we did have a, American special operators down there working with us in Medellin for 18 months. But that was at the invitation of the government of Columbia. There have been other operations back when Javier and I were still in the job in which we had credible information where Chappo Guzman was in his mountain retreat. And everybody said, well, you can't get there because it's so remote. Well, our operators are trained to get to places like that.

They're the best in the world. Those are the guys that Javier and I make no bones about it. If we're ever kidnapped, that's who all want to come and get me. because I've seen what their capabilities are, and they are fantastic. So are we, you know, given, are we willing to invade a country that borders our country? Under the current leadership in Mexico,

I mean, the hugs for thugs propaganda that their president is putting out down there is having zero effect. It's just making the cartels more and more powerful. How many more Americans have to die in the United States before we get serious about it and then do something along the border? So it almost seems to me like he is suggesting

conducting joint U.S. Mexican operations in Mexico to fight the cartels like their terrorists. What did you think about that? You know what? We have tried to work with the Mexican government. I remember I was a young agent when our agent, Kikea Kamerana, was abducted and killed back in 1984. And I was a young agent. They sent me to go to Mexico to work for, you know, the capture of the abductors. but there was really not a lot of cooperation.

In and out throughout my career, I had a lot of dealings with Mexico, and it's always, there's always a game, yeah, we're going to work together. That never happens. I wish we were able to do, like Steve said, in Colombia, where Colombia invited us. They requested us. I wish Mexico would do that. It's not, it's all the political power of the Mexican government,

which, you know, I hate to say it. I am not. I haven't seen it. And, you know, I agree with the assessment that this cartels are terrorist organizations. We're starting to see our U.S. citizens, obviously, with a fentanyl problem. Traffickers coming into the United States. We're starting to see that. And, you know, it's been happening for a long time. And a lot of this, like I said, these crimes are not reported in Mexico. So we need to step up, get better. How do we? How do we tell Mexico take some of their foreign aid, right? Money is always, you know, we give them a lot of foreign aid. And in my opinion, we're not getting that return that we need to. So I think our government has to get stronger. And this people, like I said, they don't care. I tell people the Mexican traffickers, they don't care who dies, who gets killed. As long as their dope is crossed into the United States, they make a buck. That's what they're in there for for the money. Steve, I had the chance to speak with Derek Maltz a few weeks ago, maybe a month or so ago,

and his description of the cartels is that if I remember correctly and understand it correctly, it might be worse than it's ever been. And it seems to me that from when you guys operated to now, what is the difference? We talked a little bit. You talked about how people go down to Mexico and they're thinking they're going to get cheap drugs that will help them. And it's actually not the case. They're being sold poison.

But now, you know, the interesting. reduction of fentanyl, which is this new crisis in the last several years. Walk us through how the situation has changed right now as we, you know, try to understand this moving forward. The biggest, I mean, the violence was there with the Colombians. You know, it's been depicted in all the TV shows and the Narco series and everything, and it was true. I mean, it was extremely violent times. I think the big difference here is the proximity of Mexico to the United States versus Columbia to the United States. They're in our back door. You know, the violence has spilled over into the United States. There's incidents regularly, especially along the border

where they come into the United States and they're doing their thing to enforce their will upon the poor people that are living that close to the border. To me, the question is, how many Americans are we going to have to die before we really get serious about protecting the southern border? And what I was going to say a while ago, you know, people used to ask us about the wall. The wall, it would help. It's not a one solution to the entire problem. We build a wall and they're going to stop coming across. They're going to find ways to come across. You've got to remember that the dark traffickers have much more money and they have no rules. You know, we have taxpayer dollars and the U.S. Constitution. That's what separates us from them. That's called, you know,

I don't mean to sound like I'm preaching, but that's the rule of law. That's what we operate under here in the United States. I don't see that in Mexico. They may spout that from Mexico City from the presidential palace and their Congress, but when the reality comes around and you see what going along in all these places and it's going unaddressed, you know, Chapo Guzman's son went to be arrested in a major firefight ensued, and the president ordered the Mexican troops and police to stand down. And it was to save lives, but you're just given into the narcotics trade, given into the criminals when you do that. Yeah, and Javier, I'll give you the final word. We have about a minute left. This area where all this happened, I think we've made it

very clear how dangerous it actually is. The one question I have is, is this controlled by one cartel or are there multiple cartels competing? Because remember, if we believe this was mistaken identity and they thought these were Haitian drug smugglers, clearly they wanted to not have them operate there, walk us through if there's any conflicts in that region and what we should be understanding. Yeah, great question. The turf wars, the plasas, they call them, who runs the plazas, the turf, basically. Before it was more bigger, organized cartels, now we're seeing more in the independent type cartels. We've seen this cartel leaders get taken down, Chapeau.

We've seen other cartel leaders get killed. So they're starting to follow the Colombian traffickers as far as smaller, more independent, try to be less publicized. However, they are still using the violence and they are still using the corruption. We see it on a daily basis. And they, what's going on with the Mexican cartels is they flaunt the violence. They'll show it. They'll put it on TV.

They'll hang bodies. They'll put heads so people can be intimidated. And then they come in with the money. So that's the difference. They're still out there. They're more independent. And they're, you know, the plaza situation, the traffickers, they're making money and they'll use whatever violence they can. What a horrible, horrible situation.

But Javier, Steve, I appreciate you coming on talking about this as we're hearing this tragic update with these four Americans. Really, thank you for educating all of us on what's happening there. And I encourage everyone to check out your podcast, your tour, your book, your website. And gentlemen, I said this to you off air. I'll say it to you on air as well. Thank you so much for the work that you've done and for your service to trying to really stop such an evil that is happening in the world. Thank you both. Thank you very much, Jason.

Yeah, thank you. too, Jesse. Appreciate it. And that's all we have for you here on Sidebar, everybody. Thank you so much for joining us. Please subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, wherever you get your podcast. I'm Jesse Weber. I'll speak to you next time. You can binge all episodes of this law and crime series, ad free right now on Wondery Plus.

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