Law&Crime Sidebar - OnlyFans Model Courtney Clenney Deserves Life in Prison: Family of Slain Boyfriend

Episode Date: August 16, 2022

The family of the man allegedly murdered by OnlyFans Model Courtney Clenney says she deserves life in prison, but will that happen? Jesse Weber breaks it down with attorney, former prosecutor and retired Judge Fanon Rucker.PLEASE SUPPORT THE SHOW:Get 20% OFF @manscaped + Free Shipping with promo code SIDEBAR at https://www.manscaped.com/ !GUESTS:Judge Fanon Rucker: https://twitter.com/fanonruckerLAW&CRIME SIDEBAR PRODUCTION:YouTube Management - Bobby SzokePodcasting - Sam GoldbergVideo Editing - Michael DeiningerGuest Booking - Alyssa FisherSocial Media Management - Kiera BronsonSUBSCRIBE TO OUR OTHER PODCASTS:Court JunkieObjectionsThey Walk Among AmericaCoptales and CocktailsThe Disturbing TruthSpeaking FreelyLAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandcrime/Twitter: https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetworkFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawandcrimeTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lawandcrimenetworkTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lawandcrimeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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will keep you on the edge of your seat. Don't let your fears take hold of you as you dive into this addictive series. Love thrillers with a paranormal twist? The entire Oracle trilogy is available on Audible. Listen now on Audible. The family of the man allegedly murdered by OnlyFans model, Courtney Clennie, has strong words for this accused killer. Attorney, former prosecutor, and retired judge, Fanon Rucker, comes on to discuss the latest in the case that many across the country are following. Welcome to Sidebar, presented by Law and Crime. I'm Jesse Weber.

Let's talk Courtney Clennie. So this is a story that has been getting a lot of attention, I think, for a lot of different factors. And just for those of you who are not so familiar with this, she is the only fans model who was accused of stabbing to death her boyfriend, Christian Obam Selly, and his Miami Florida apartment back in April. And while this did happen then, she was charged with second degree murder just last week. And her defense attorneys told the media that Clennie was acting in self-defense. That has always been the theory that has been foot forward. That's what she

initially told law enforcement. But in video, that was released by the state attorney's office of this OnlyFans model, Ann Obenselli, this is from back in February, you can arguably see her attacking him, that she is the one who is the primary aggressor, at least at that moment. And so it raises questions as to what actually happened between the two. Well, what we do know is that Clennie was arrested out in Ohio, excuse me, out in Hawaii, and she was currently awaiting extradition to Florida. We believe that she was in a rehab center out in Hawaii when she was apprehended, and she has waived extradition, meaning that she will come back to Miami, Florida,

to ultimately respond to this case. Now, Obam Sully's family is speaking up, and this is where things take an interesting term. So the Obam Selly family attorney, Larry Hanfeld, he tells TMZ that a Christian's family is happy that Courtney Clennie was recently charged with second degree murder because a conviction could result in a life sentence. So they are looking for a life sentence here. I want to bring on somebody who's an expert in this area to talk about what could actually happen to Courtney Clennie, but also, all of the circumstances surrounding this, this really, really horrific stabbing. So joining me right now is attorney, former prosecutor, and retired Judge Fonan Rucker. Judge, great to see you.

Jesse, thanks so much for having me on, and I appreciate this opportunity. I appreciate you taking the time to talk about this. So I want to start right now with, let's say, this goes to trial, let's say she's convicted. Can she face a life sentence because I'm a little confused with second degree murder? That is not automatically a life sentence, if I'm understanding that correctly, based on Florida law. Is there a range, are there options here by which a judge could ultimately determine what the appropriate punishment would be? There are. And, you know, different states have different ranges, different degrees, different classifications of these offenses.

In Florida, a first degree of murder would have a definite term of life. But we're talking about, you know, something less than that definite. So we're talking 25 to life as a potential. We're talking about a range that could go from, you know, the bottom of a pretty serious sentence all the way to the most serious. Obviously, they're not discussing anything about a death penalty because those circumstances aren't on the table. But it sounds like because of the degree of murder that there is a range of

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You'll be joining the over 6 million men across the planet that use and trust manscape. So you should get ready to look and feel great. Based purely on the circumstances that we know right now in this case. And obviously more will develop as the investigation furthers and, you know, this case furthers. Would this, if this was a case that was in front of you, would you feel that it meets the higher realm? I mean, every time you're talking about somebody who is killed and murdered, you have.

feel like it always deserves the maximum, but there are times that where we see someone who sentenced to only 25 years. What factors here would you be looking at? Because it's a unique case. Well, whenever you're talking about sentencing, there's two factors on the sides of the scales that you look at. You look at aggravating factors or circumstances, and you look at mitigating circumstances and factors. And those factors, whether they're aggravating or mitigating, helped to establish the sentence. So aggravating factors on something like this is that she murdered him in what looked like a very heinous way. It looked like she may have been, by virtue of the fact she went to rehab immediately after this actually dipped out of the states, took off running

arguably as a fugitive and into rehab, that it could have been. fueled by some substance abuse, you know, incendiary rage. It looks like it was unprovoked. So those are aggravating factors that could increase the range or likelihood of the sentence. On the other side of the mitigating, their argument is it was self-defense, which is not only a mitigating circumstance, but it's an absolute defense to the crime that she's charged with, that she was in fear. of her own personal safety, either serious injury or death. That would be a, and if there's some circumstance, which meant it was a long range argument

of her self-defense, it might be mitigating because she was in an abusive relationship and she couldn't, didn't feel like she could leave. So even though in that moment, there wasn't the need to use deadly force, her mental process required her to use something very physically offensive in order to escape. That would be in mitigating circumstance. So there's a lot of things that could be

considered aggravating or mitigating to help to define what that range is from 25 to life if that's the actual way. It's interesting you mention that because Frank Prieto, who's Courtney Clennie's attorney, he told TMZ, quote, although the state attorney by law must consider the wishes of the next of kin in a criminal case, those wishes often have to give way to more reasonable minds. While we understand the family is grieving the loss of Mr. Obamselli and they want justice. Justice in this matter will be the acquittal of Courtney on all charges. The way I interpret that is he's basically saying, number one, don't automatically think this is going to be a life sentence if she's convicted. And number two, there's still a trial to go away. And so when you look at that statement,

I mean, you're dealing with a situation that's a bit unique, right? You see someone murdered and she's not automatically arrested. They believed her. at first, that this was self-defense. And we'll get into the, you know, what envelope from the investigation. But that's a strong argument, I think, on the defense's point of view, that initially law enforcement believed her, and clearly, Mr. Prieto thinks there's strong evidence on their side. That's right.

And what information did they receive that caused them to change their minds that they didn't have in the beginning? Who advocated or argued for this deceased? victim that caused the police to say, you know what, actually, we're going to make her prove self-defense as opposed to assuming that it exists based on what we have so far. That's an interesting question. Well, let's get into some of the evidence. This one alarms me the most, right? Apparently, there was a discrepancy in what she told law enforcement and what actually happened, right? So she told law enforcement that she had thrown the knife at her boyfriend when he

is 10 feet away. But we know that based on the actual autopsy report that indicated what happened is that this was a forceful downward thrust of a knife in a wound about three inches or eight centimeters deep in his chest. So the fact that that doesn't really line up with what she said, how is she going to argue that? I mean, how can she say, I told police, I did that, unless she's, I don't know, a trained assassin who can throw this at a hundred miles per hour and it goes right into his chest. It doesn't line up. So how could she argue that away and say, I was acting in self-defense?

Or maybe she says, I wasn't being honest with police because I panicked. I wasn't thinking straight. You tell me how to make sense of that. Sure. I mean, how many times do we see as even here being argued that, yeah, my first statement to law enforcement, wasn't honest because I was petrified. I was nervous. I mean, here is my dead boyfriend. Of course, they're going to assume that I killed him maliciously. Yeah, I lied. I said that I threw the knife at him because I didn't think anyone would believe me because I had a little

bit to drink. I had some drugs in my system. I didn't think anybody would believe me if I told them the truth. So I made some up that unfortunately the evidence didn't support. That's not an uncommon strategy. Well, that's not a strategy. That's not a strategy. That's not a strategy. That's not an uncommon response to people being in some very, very difficult circumstances like this only fan's model finds herself in. I want to read you something that Christian Obam Sully's brother had said. He shared a statement, quote, despite the disregard and injustice my family experienced,

the Miami-Dade State Attorney's Office's arrest in charging of Courtney Claney for the murder of his brother on April 3, 2022 is progress. her arrest, although delayed for 129 days, brings us one step closer to justice. The SAO's investigation supports what we've said from the beginning that this was not an act of self-defense. Toby, meaning his brother, was a victim of domestic violence. He was unarmed when Clennie brutally stabbed him in the chest from behind. I was filled with heavy emotion after the report uncovered that Clennie spoke to her mother twice on the phone for over 13 minutes.

As my brother bled out on the floor, she waited 13 minutes. And to Toby, a lifetime before she called 911, 13 whole minutes. Toby did not have to die. His killing warrants equal justice under the law. A few things to break down there. One, critical of the government. And two, that phone call, again, walk me through both, what you think.

Sure. Certainly understanding the family's position that there wasn't some more immediate action. I mean, I can't tell you how many, number one, even as a prosecutor, how many victims I dealt with or families of victims I dealt with, even now in my civil practice, how many families of people who have been murdered or who have been victims of tragic circumstances, they want a response right now. They want it immediately after it happens. But, you know, there needs to be and should be for the sanctity of the system and the process a careful and deliberate examining. of whatever evidence there is because a rush to judgment or a rush to action

often leads, as we know, to acquittals and outcomes that the state doesn't want. And so understanding, you know, the statement about being critical about police, putting that aside, that 13 minutes, if I'm the prosecutor,

I am pounding the table on that demonstrating several things. First of all, if I can get any medical evidence to suggest that he didn't die within that, you know, first minute that that 13 minutes was a time when had she done something else, he could have been saved. His life could have been spared. And she was the one that had the opportunity to do that. And instead of her taking steps to call 911 when she did this by accident or didn't believe that she was planning to kill him, could have been 13 minutes to save his life. That's the first thing I'm pounding the table on.

The second, and this is, you know, just as important, why didn't she call 9-1-1 immediately doing that same 13 minutes? Two separate issues. What did you do in that 13 minutes that you could have done to save his life? Did you do chest compressions? Did you reach out to an ambulance? But second of all, why didn't you call immediately when you felt your life was in danger or when you knew that your boyfriend was bleeding on the floor in the house that you always said? Two calls. She placed two calls to her mother.

One was six minutes, one was seven minutes, and then ultimately she then called 911. And I guess the question becomes, again, focusing back on the investigation, how do you let somebody go to Hawaii? I mean, again, her attorney had said that she had gone there for substance abuse issues. She had gone there for PTSD. She went to a rehab facility. But isn't it pretty, you can't find the record? I mean, I guess it takes some time to find the autopsy results to determine, you know, actually

the cause of death and the manner of death. and the circumstances surrounding it. The phone records, couldn't you find that pretty quickly? It just seemed like shouldn't there have been something to keep her around? And you're talking about a stabbing in April and an arrest and an arrest and charging so many months later in the summer. Is that typically how it works? Well, it's not unusual.

I mean, we know there's years sometime between when they have an initial suspect in a crime and the time when some years later, They received some additional information, and they end up charging that person who was originally a person of interest when they first started investigating the crime. So I don't think it's unusual, but there are some other dynamics that have to be considered and examined here. Now, we know that historically, and really just by thought, women are not generally, although it's been changing at least by the time I was on the bench, it's been changing on the number of women who, who have been charged or who have been accused of some of these murders. You know, there's a presumption

when it comes to some of our court systems of the relative relationship between men and women and some of our courts and how we handle these. And so you have to believe that part of this was, if a woman says I was the victim of domestic violence and I did this in self-defense, that's probably going to be the initial thought that's believed until and unless,

there's some detective, or again, some advocacy on behalf of the victim, to say, wait a minute, you all need to look at this a different way and to continue to pound the table to change that stereotypical thinking that assumes that if a woman stabs or kills a man in a relationship, that it wasn't about domestic violence, that it was about self-defense. That's about a mind state that our country has, that our system possesses. And you have to believe that that probably played some role. in how this developed in this particular case. And you saw the video, right? You saw the elevator video where the two of them are fighting. This is from February. I'm curious what you make of it and whether it will play a significant role here. I think what it's on the outset did is to change the narrative because you're seeing, at least from that video, Clennie being the primary aggressor.

She's the one who starts hitting Obamselli. There is a part where he pushes her back. He's much bigger than her. and so the allegation is is that he had abused her she was defending herself you could have a situation where both of them were abusive towards each other at different points in the relationship and just to play devil's advocate here how fair is it to look at that video from February and say up well if she did that in the elevator clearly she's the one who started the fight in April and stabbed him to death I mean maybe he I don't think he was armed and so it becomes a question maybe that's exactly what happened but are we cherry-picking something that was caught on tape when there could have been a lot else that happened behind the seats? Well, of course. And that's what we do as lawyers.

We point out the good and we disregard or try to limit the bad effects of evidence that's not in our favor. So both sides are going to use that elevator video arguing it to their position. The state is going to argue to say, see, here's the evidence that on this particular occasion, this was consistent with who she was and how she dealt with him. Watch this video. The defense is going to say, what you're seeing is the buildup. She was defending herself on this occasion

because he had refused to let her leave this relationship. He was threatening her. He was abusing her. You just caught a glimpse of her trying to defend herself in a very clumsy and unsuccessful way because of their size difference. I mean, yeah, both sides are going to exploit that elevator video for their own.

purposes and it'll all it'll be up to the trier fact to determine which one is more persuasive based on all of the evidence that's presented and at this point we believe that she waived extradition shows she's going to come back to Florida this case will proceed and hopefully we'll be able to continue to cover it here on sidebar uh judge Phanan Rucker thank you so much for coming on appreciate it as always and I think this was your first appearance on sidebar it is and I hope not to last it well I mean hey listen my choice I have you back on for all the cases. I really appreciate it, Judge. Thanks so much. Thanks so much, Jesse. And everyone out there, thanks so much for listening and watching to Sidebar. Please subscribe on Apple

Podcasts, YouTube, Spotify, wherever you get your podcast. Sidebar is produced by Sam Goldberg, YouTube manager Robert Zoki and Alyssa Fisher as our booking producer. And of course, our video editor, Michael Dineger. I'm Jesse Weber. Speak to you next time. You can binge all episodes of this law and crime series, ad free right now on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.